Electronic bikes - thoughts from anyone using them

ted1

recedite wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

There’s no dark grey area. It’s very black or white

Legally yes. But in practice, it would be near impossible to identify a high speed electric model unless you were an expert, or the guy was going 40Kph uphill and not affiliated to any pro team.
It begs the question, why is the shop allowed to sell them, if nobody has ever taxed or insured one? The whole point of the EU pedelec standard was presumably so that only the compliant e-bikes would be on the road?

recedite wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

There’s no dark grey area. It’s very black or white

Legally yes. But in practice, it would be near impossible to identify a high speed electric model unless you were an expert, or the guy was going 40Kph uphill and not affiliated to any pro team.
It begs the question, why is the shop allowed to sell them, if nobody has ever taxed or insured one? The whole point of the EU pedelec standard was presumably so that only the compliant e-bikes would be on the road?

Shops can sell what ever they like. The mountain bikes are designed for trails and are not meant to be used on public roads.

Indeed there’s plenty of well established motor bike shops that sell scramblers , quads, trail bikes etc thst are not road legal

Ferris

My Bosch battery is 2-3kg I think and it is detachable. The other additional weight would be the motor. I suspect that the manufacturers don’t care too much about weight on these bikes, unless you are paying serious money for one (4K+). It’s fine by me, my bike is so stable as a result but it is heavy to push with no assistance.

I was looking at Ghost bikes on chain reaction, seemed to be a bit lighter, faster rolling and have a lower profile than my bike. Id say it’s a nice bike to ride but I went for a better spec eMTB instead

Canis Lupus

Plastik wrote: »

So what's the standing with these illegal eBikes. There's quite a few of them out there. Users on here, not to single out the last poster, freely admit owning and using them on the road. Is there a penalty if caught? What is it? There's nothing to stop me buying a moped at the weekend, ignoring that I require insurance and tax, putting on a helmet, and simply using it for the work commute. These eBikes are operating in a very dark grey legal area TBH. Do mechanically propelled vehicles that can travel above a certain speed require tax & insurance according to the Road Traffic Act? Do these bikes meet that definition? If so it's interesting to see people use, and be delighted about using them on the road, something I'm sure most wouldn't do with a moped.

Was musing all of the above on pedal powered commute in this morning, after I had been passed by an eBike while doing 30kph up a gradual incline as if I was going backwards. He must have been doing 45kph at least. I think it was the same Haibike that I have seen a few times. TBH I thought it was dangerous and had no business in the cycle lanes. It would easily keep up with, if not be faster than a lot of mopeds.

There's a difference between doing 45-50kph on occasion in cycle lanes, and travelling everywhere at a constant 45-50kph in them, in my opinion.

I made a few decisions regarding my choice personally. I live in Brisbane and don't work in the city so the roads i take are very traffic orientated. As in you don't get pedestrians stepping off into your path etc. Interestingly it's legal to cycle on footpaths here (they're very wide) and a lot of commuters actually choose to do that. I just had a think and in 6 months of commuting here I've overtaken 2 cyclists. Many people think I'm mad cycling on the roads.

Of course I'd be lying if I didn't say the biggest influence is the 750w motor is identical in every way to the legal motor and there's no way to spot the difference visually and my route being suburban means I'm unlikely to run into a police checkpoint of any kind. The police themselves don't appear care unless you're being some kind of nuisance and I'm just an middle-aged dude with panniers commuting to work. I've been a cyclist my entire life and I don't feel particularly that this motor has made me more dangerous. Perhaps if I was in Dublin surrounded by many cyclists I might change that opinion though.

Lemming

Ferris wrote: »

My Bosch battery is 2-3kg I think and it is detachable. The other additional weight would be the motor. I suspect that the manufacturers don’t care too much about weight on these bikes, unless you are paying serious money for one (4K+). It’s fine by me, my bike is so stable as a result but it is heavy to push with no assistance.

I was looking at Ghost bikes on chain reaction, seemed to be a bit lighter, faster rolling and have a lower profile than my bike. Id say it’s a nice bike to ride but I went for a better spec eMTB instead

As expensive as eMTBs are, if you want weight savings that are significant you're looking at carbon frames and/or carbon wheelsets; both of which will see you straight into the territory marked "silly money". Next port of call is perhaps the sort of suspension fork (or lack) that you have up front.

But then again, a cheap or poorly setup bike with sloppy feel for steering, shifting, braking, and/or suspension feedback will make you feel the weight more than it really is because you'll be fighting the bike and then your own imagination if it [your imagination] convinces you that the weight of the bike that is your source of woe.

BowSideChamp

It's funny, the govt bends over backwards to give subsidies, perks and invest €m's in installing charging stations for electric cars but they don't give 2 ****s about electric bikes.

CramCycle

BowSideChamp wrote: »

It's funny, the govt bends over backwards to give subsidies, perks and invest €m's in installing charging stations for electric cars but they don't give 2 ****s about electric bikes.

If you get into that scene, you will find they don't give much of a **** about e cars either, just the minimal amount of charging stations as listed by eu subsidies. The network is still awful, which means the second hand market is stalled and suffering, the delays in the expansion of the market are solely due to, not the lack of investment but the stone wall investment hit in the area.

The government are not picking on bikes, they are just not giving a **** on anything outside of what they think their voting block wants to hear, and eventually, by 2020, it will cost us, as a country, a huge amount of money. Already on the back foot, it may be unavoidable.

I've a pal who makes liberal use of the charge station in the Lidl across the road from her, to the point where they'd call a search party if her car wasn't there in the evening

The charge space down the road in the council operated car park is usually occupied by a diesel or petrol car without consequence.

recedite

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

I know somebody who likes to cycle and was considering an ebike but having tried one found it far too heavy, to manoeuvre along a pavement to park it or certainly to lift into a car to drive to a Greenway say.

A better option may be to hire one at the greenway. The more expensive models are based on a lighter/better basic bike, but I doubt the battery or motor will get any lighter unless there is some major technology change.

Lemming wrote: »

If someone finds an e-bike too heavy to maneuver along a pavement to park, they've got issues more pressing; such as the ability to open jam jar lids or open fire-doors in a building. Seriously, these bikes are not *that* heavy; they're just heavier than their non e-bike counterparts because ... well battery pack & motor. I've ridden steel frame bikes from the 1990s that were heavier.

That's a fair point. The e-bikes have become quite popular among retirees and pensioners in Germany and Spain, resulting in a spate of accidents. These are not mobility scooters, they are bikes!
IMO they would be great for an elderly cyclist, extending that persons range and maybe allowing them to cycle in a sociable way with younger fitter cyclists. But for all the people who were just too lazy to cycle previously, maybe not so great. What you get is a supercharged Fred.

AndrewJRenko

recedite wrote: »

That's a fair point. The e-bikes have become quite popular among retirees and pensioners in Germany and Spain, resulting in a spate of accidents. These are not mobility scooters, they are bikes!
IMO they would be great for an elderly cyclist, extending that persons range and maybe allowing them to cycle in a sociable way with younger fitter cyclists.

They are also great for many people with disabilities who wouldn't have the strength or stamina to cycle significant distances, but find all kinds of possibilities opening up with the eBikes.

Lemming

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They are also great for many people with disabilities who wouldn't have the strength or stamina to cycle significant distances, but find all kinds of possibilities opening up with the eBikes.

I met such a lad out with his mates at a trail centre in Sheffield a couple of months ago (round about October/November 2017). Lad was in his 40s, a bit overweight but not huge by any means, just his knees weren't what they once were so the full-suspension e-MTB allowed him to get out and stay with his mates.

Ray Palmer

I'm on my second pedelec and they are brilliant. The make of bike is not really that massively important the type of motor and make is. Somebody has already posted the main points about motor positioning. An important thing to note is some of the hub motors won't let you cycle above the cut off limit.

I personally think the mid frame model is the best.