Irish Gravel Routes (Check out my Gravel Tips)

nilhg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121341615#Comment_121341615

I've been meaning to get down there on the gravel bike myself but somehow stuff gets in the way, there are a few loops on GravelMap that I was going to start off from.

https://gravelmap.com/#_=11.65/53.106/-7.4975

Jimbo789

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/37910284

I found this route but never got to try it out.

It’s starting in Cadamstown.

mamax

Anyone do the gralloch last year or gonna do it next year?

https://www.grallochgravel.com

delynet

From Facebook

breadevery

GRS have updated their website. Entries open December 1st, and a third event in Limerick now listed too.

For Slieve Bloom routes, start in Kinnitty, Cadamstown or Clonaslee and just head upwards into the hills. There are fantastic gravel routes all over the place. Very few dead ends, so you can put together a long route quite easily. Lots of the blue mtb trails are excellent on a gravel bike too.

Macy0161

Can't post the link at the moment, but the Galway Gravel Grinder posted the below on Facebook yesterday...

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

To all gravel cyclists and enthusiasts:

Unfortunately, we have learned gravel cycling events utilising Coillte managed properties in the Republic of Ireland will not be supported or licensed moving forward. Effectively, this would mean the end of the Galway Gravel Grinder and other events like it around the country. 

We have worked tirelessly over the last few years with Coillte (and many other public and private partners) to put on a professional, safe and community-focused event, and it should be noted that we have built very strong and positive relationships with our Coillte representatives at the local level. 

From the very beginning, we set out to run the Galway Gravel Grinder with the heart of the "gravel ethos" at its core—community! We didn't cut corners, and we made sure to build partnerships with the likes of Coillte, SSE, local land owners, business owners, community leaders, and many others. Additionally, we put our money where our mouth is by sharing close to €4,000 with a local charity over the last two years.  

We understand conversations are ongoing between Cycling Ireland and Coillte to address issues and concerns, and we are very hopeful they will be fruitful. 

In the meantime, I would like to ask that you: 

   1) share this with others in the gravel cycling community and beyond; and 

   2) add your comments below.  

Please, if you do comment, I would like to ask that the comments remain true to the spirit of gravel cycling: stay positive, be constructive and let's all focus on the desire to solve problems and save gravel cycling in Ireland. 

Lastly, we hope Coillte "grandfather in" the Galway Gravel Grinder for 2024, and that we do host this year's event given our track record. By sharing this post far and wide, maybe it will get to the right people for that kind of consideration. For now, however, we will leave our proposed date as TBD, but plan on late August or early September if it goes ahead with registration opening a few months before. 

Keep those fingers crossed for a positive outcome!

dahat

Anyone got more background on this? Is it as simple as insurance issues?

Macy0161

No, just saw the post on Facebook. They do say in the comments they have the insurance via CI which has been enough previous years. If it's a blanket ban, that's effectively every gravel event (and MTB?) in the State gone.

mamax

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601002#Comment_121601002

I hear there's some claims from 'cyclists' gone in which as you know can cause issues with events or more so the people that control the lands etc.

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121600787#Comment_121600787

That's crap.

I get the impression Coillte just might not be engaging or interested in doing so. When we were discussing this last summer, I was talking to one of my local TDs on it, who is receptive to the idea - at least in the MTB context. He shared a 2 pager with me the gist of which was that information sought from Coillte wasn't forthcoming (my apologies for the vagueness, but he specifically asked me not to share the doc so I'm treading carefully).

Whatever way you cut it, it's not encouraging

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602170#Comment_121602170

It's a very Irish, narrow minded, short sighted, way of looking at things from Coillte and the powers that be. Every progressive measure over the decades seems to have to be dragged out of authorities kicking and screaming. We should be a world leader in outdoors, green tourism. Aside from the very obvious health benefits and prestige that comes with being a leader in any sporting field. But, "no". Just becuase.

Large bottle small glass

1.4billon for some vague zero detail plan on a cycle network but a refusal for a simple stroke of a pen to open up an existing 3000km and more existing road network for events and general tourism.

Linking up our local road network with Coillte and other random tracks is as good as cycling gets, but we can't promote it here because our politicians won't compel Coillte to actually comply with their own mission statement.

seanin4711

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603624#Comment_121603624

everything you said -100% agree.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605820#Comment_121605820

https://www.fieldfisher.com/en-ie/locations/ireland/ireland-blog/changes-to-the-occupiers-liability-act#:~:text=Section%2040%20of%20the%202023,of%20eliminating%20the%20risk%3B%20and

The primary legislation on which a claim can be made has been amended wtf is their problem.

They allow uncertified hunters with rifles(who are then charged with erecting signs to warn the public) but not cycling events, it'd make your head spin.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601002#Comment_121601002

From what I see it's down to Insurance, so maybe Coillte can't get indemnity for events where guys are racing down coillte fireroads and knock someone down, not sure CI insurance covers that either so looks like that's why they've decided not to sanction any events on their managed lands...

dahat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606063#Comment_121606063

So then if a CI registered rider is using Coillte lands solo his policy is n/a possibly?

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606150#Comment_121606150

Have you ever heard of anyone making a claim off Cycling Ireland for being hit by a cyclist who was cycling on a forestry fireroad? I haven't.. but can't imagine it being successful... most likely the rider would get sued...

Weepsie

I presume it's more that Coillte don't want self entitled arseholes like yer wan who slipped in Wicklow trying to sue them. 99.9 percent of cyclits using coilte forests would you think be sucking it up and saying that's offroad cycling if they had an injury.

Bring in a strict no liability rule for Coillte or something and let people at it.

And if it's an event, then people shouldn't be there to be knocked down. Coillte themselve have told people to stay out of a specific forest this weekend as they are shooting deer. If someone ignores that and gets shot, that should be on the person.

cletus

Has there been any statement about what the actual issue is?

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606248#Comment_121606248

The Occupier Liability has been amended, they already have that or as close as they are likely to get

Macy0161

I wonder do these events need to move from Leisure to LC like MTB/ CX? Does that up the insurance cover?

df

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603624#Comment_121603624

8000km!

cletus

Any update on this issue? I see that Gravel Grind West are still advertising their 2024 race, I would have assumed (without looking at the route) that they used at least some Coilte lands.

On a separate note, I see figures of between 3 and 8,000 km of Coilte fire roads being stated above. Can anyone provide a link with the actual numbers?

nilhg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680019#Comment_121680019

GGW are also affected:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid021nHjTcnpcN2yh1aiTXaWSoKmJoawqG8nDWuCwVr68jw9H7Cu6YQX1qCMFEiWbHgyl&id=100063786560405&__cft__[0]=AZVCuTyiCnlxhfHiBjhttPadzWbPTUiFU0p1yg3-pHO6eZceA6XLHAD9_GHWzaEpPKhG4j9u8QG8E_oHdsDYGCqP6uJSM6-URP2KDwEebI65YrCQzYlNv9UuFuWTghAPqaG8BxbsW2CXoZ3Vm8UnEtd4MKB2IwzaHhDXLnG3pQs5U7mF2a5H27snHt3WuuXS1pk&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

Only 1 route survives from the planned 3

Meanwhile I see a new (to me anyway) event in NI in Gortin Glenn on 06/04, madness that we'll all have to head north for any gravel events

delynet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680019#Comment_121680019

I know the organiser and they managed to create a route avoiding Coilte properties.

Weepsie

I saw a post that was advertising 7-8 gravel events in Connacht. Routes being determined.

I imagine it's boreens rather than gravel, but there's probably plenty of them out there

df

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680019#Comment_121680019

“Between 1944 and 2021, 9,912 km of forest roads have been built in the public forest estate or on average 127 km annually”

5.1.1 Public forest roading, Ireland’s Forests - Annual Statistics 2022

nilhg

Update from David Flanagan today

https://threerockbooks.com/gravel-cycling-in-ireland/

Kinda disappointing but hardly surprising, all we can do is keep a squeeze on the politicians, we do have a Green minister for forestry, it has to be embarrassing for them to be trumpeting the amount of money spent on cycling amenities and then to have a semi state company bar cyclists for an existing cycling one.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121809302#Comment_121809302

Department of forestry is up there with the most incompetent of our various departments.

Between dieback, felling licence fiasco it's been a sh1t show for years.

I can't get how Coillte are ok with deer hunting (with high powered rifles) and all access control being provided by hunter but regard cycling as this high risk activity that can't be entertained.

With the current occupier's liability act amendment the duty owed to recreational users isn't onerous at all.

I'm sure some cyclist will eventually cause a loss or insurance cost but in the general scheme of things the potential and upside to society in terms of recreation and tourism dwarfs and potential downside.

Macy0161

People cycling and people walking are expected to share greenways and much of the new "active travel" infrastructure but can't share forestry fire roads in Coillte!?! fwiw I've never experienced any issue or complaint using fire roads on the Wicklow Way, or other forestry areas. Only self entitled (dog) walkers I've met have been on non-coillte trails where cycling is allowed in the byelaws (unlike walking your dog off lead!)!

The document describes the signage that would be placed at the entrance to warn users that the area is multi-use and to remind cyclists of their responsibilities. It then lists a number of very reasonable criteria that a forest must meet to be considered as a FCA. These are listed below:

The forest should not be a high-use recreational forest already under pressure from many other recreational groups.

Forests with many developed looped or long-distance walks should not be considered. Similarly, where arrangements exist with groups to maintain the forest or other trails within the forest, consideration must be given to these in the first instance.

The topography should be relatively gentle rather than challenging – forest cycling areas are intended to provide for cyclists with lower levels of experience in the outdoors.

Forests with forecasted high levels of operations over the ten year period following the proposal should not be considered.

Consider likely ways that cyclists could use the forest and the likely routes they would take. Descents on forest roads should be avoided but where unavoidable, should be mitigated by long clear sightlines and through use of warning signage – cyclists cautioned to control their speed, etc…. Any walking trails within the forest that do not allow for safe dual-use should be marked for walking use only.

Finally, the document goes on to say that “Proposals for sites to be designated as Forest Cycling Areas will be assessed by the Recreation Unit in Coillte”.

Although, if cycling was still banned in in non-FCA's, it would rule out a lot of the Wicklow Mountains!