Wrestle Kingdom 12 Live Thread

CastorTroy

First I have to say after reading this thread I'm wondering if Sirsok can do the Posh Spice pose.

Anyway was a really enjoyable show, including the rumble. Though I don't think Tiger Mask was officially eliminated.

What did Jericho's card say? I saw "WWE" so was it WWE Superstar? Seems strange they did that and make other WWE references. Left me hoping they had secretly done a deal with WWE and there was some kind of angle coming up on both promotions. Maybe with other WWE free agents turning up like maybe Ziggler.
But Jericho went all out. He didn't hold back on the heel tactics, attacking everyone.

The refs certainly seem a lot tougher than WWE, going by the amount of times they were knocked down.

Oh and if WWE are going with the Balor Club, can we also get a Tokyo Latina equivalent? :pac:

A Rogue Hobo

What a show. I've seen people say that Okada and Naito was only ok...i think some people must have some ridiculously high standards. Fantastic match. Enjoyed every match really, even Tanahashi and White which was probably the weakest of all the 1v1 matches on the night. The only match that didn't have my full attention was KES vs LIJ but that to be honest that was mostly because my dominos arrived. Jericho vs Omega was so good, really unique match that told a great story. Hard to argue with anyone that says Omega is the best in the world.

The highest compliment I can give is it's always been a bucket list dream of mine to go to Mania in person some day. Have watched Wrestle Kingdom 3 years on the bounce now, I think I'd go to a Wrestle Kingdom show quicker than I'd go to a Mania show.

PTH2009

really enjoyed the show esp the Omega vs Y2J match.WWE need Omega, he could be that guy they need

don't think I'll follow NJPW, not that's it's bad or anything, it's just WWE does it for me no matter how bad it can be at times. I'd consider watching wrestle kingdom every year though

The Japanese are a odd culture but awesome

ricero

Dont watch japanese wrestling but decided to watch jericho v omega. I enjoyed it for what it was.

Don callis sucks and i did lol at the state of new japans tables and chairs. Good match though and was enjoyable but nothing very special. Omega is very good but hes no aj styles.

Lithium93_

PTH2009 wrote: »

really enjoyed the show esp the Omega vs Y2J match.WWE need Omega, he could be that guy they need

don't think I'll follow NJPW, not that's it's bad or anything, it's just WWE does it for me no matter how bad it can be at times. I'd consider watching wrestle kingdom every year though

The japs are a odd culture but awesome

Great Lemmy's ghost absolutely not, he'd start of fine, then slump, followed by 50/50 booking and then fed to Reigns.

Omega's better off staying put where he is.

oneilla

ricero wrote: »

Dont watch japanese wrestling but decided to watch jericho v omega. I enjoyed it for what it was.

Don callis sucks and i did lol at the state of new japans tables and chairs. Good match though and was enjoyable but nothing very special. Omega is very good but hes no aj styles.

New Japan doesn't often use chairs and tables in matches like WWE and other companies.

LeeJM

PTH2009 wrote: »

really enjoyed the show esp the Omega vs Y2J match.WWE need Omega, he could be that guy they need

don't think I'll follow NJPW, not that's it's bad or anything, it's just WWE does it for me no matter how bad it can be at times. I'd consider watching wrestle kingdom every year though

The japs are a odd culture but awesome

Seriously?! You actually think its ok to use that word?

PTH2009

LeeJM wrote: »

Seriously?! You actually think its ok to use that word?

my bad wasant thinking changing it now

didn't mean any harm

Jerichoholic

Japs isn't that bad, no worse than 'yanks'.

sky88

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Great Lemmy's ghost absolutely not, he'd start of fine, then slump, followed by 50/50 booking and then fed to Reigns.

Omega's better off staying put where he is.

isnt everyone being fed to okada in new japan though

PTH2009

I wonder were many wwe officials watching this event ???

obv a few past NJPW current wwe stars were watching

sky88

PTH2009 wrote: »

I wonder were many wwe officials watching this event ???

obv a few past NJPW current wwe stars were watching

definitley there was a lot especially id say trips guys more than vinces. although with jericho there it may be different

Jerichoholic

Vince wasn't, but everyone else was unless they all hate their own profession.

CastorTroy

I'd say with Jericho there WWE had to watch to see how he's used and how the company is mentioned

Mr.Nice Guy

I watched the 4 way match, the Jericho/Omega match and the Naito/Okada match and liked them all. I didn't feel any of them were blow-away bouts but they were engrossing. Jericho vs Omega was my favourite match of those. I liked that it came across like an actual physical contest. The main event was also very good by the end. I think that match would be better received if the outcome had been different. I still need to watch Suzuki vs Goto. Will probably give the rest a miss based on reports.

I also thought Kelly and Callis were terribly cringeworthy on commentary.

Lithium93_

sky88 wrote: »

isnt everyone being fed to okada in new japan though

Well at least with Okada, he gradually climbed his way, whereas with Reigns, well we all know..

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I watched the 4 way match, the Jericho/Omega match and the Naito/Okada match and liked them all. I didn't feel any of them were blow-away bouts but they were engrossing. Jericho vs Omega was my favourite match of those. I liked that it came across like an actual physical contest. The main event was also very good by the end. I think that match would be better received if the outcome had been different. I still need to watch Suzuki vs Goto. Will probably give the rest a miss based on reports.

I also thought Kelly and Callis were terribly cringeworthy on commentary.

I would rather Kelly & Callis over anyone else in the WWE, Graves and Mauro are the exceptions..

sky88

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well at least with Okada, he gradually climbed his way, whereas with Reigns, well we all know..



I would rather Kelly & Callis over anyone else in the WWE, Graves and Mauro are the exceptions..

Honestly think if reigns got the same push in new japan people wouldnt complain.

Kelly is not good but ive never liked him since he was in wwe but i think callis is very good

Watched jericho and omega again and it gets better each watch.

DM_7

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well at least with Okada, he gradually climbed his way, whereas with Reigns, well we all know..

Okada went from foreign excursion to major push overnight.

Not turning this into WWE v New Japan though.

I think it is great that they can have a major Super Boss like Okada.

Agent Coulson

I liked Kelly & Callis I have to say.

Only got through the show tonight (because of work) and loved it!!

Watched everything from start to finish.

Definitely going to keep the NJ sub now.

It was brilliant watching a big wrestling event without all the stuff I complain about like camera style (Shakey cam, camera cuts etc), Michael Cole ("THE BIG DOG, BOSS TIME, THE KING SLAYER") and all the other WWE ****e.

Anytime in the past I go off WWE I go off wrestling completely but after 20 years I realise theres more than WWE.

OK I enjoy NXT for the most part but the same problems (camera style etc) and I hate the smark crowd. What I loved about the Japanese crowd was it sounded like a crowd that still believe in kayfabe and thinking that's it's real rather than we're in on it.

My favourite matches were Jericho Vs Omega, 4 way and hair Vs hair match.

Honestly thought it was brilliant. Usually with Wrestlemania you're burnt out and crowd is burnt out but with this I never got bored and wanted it to keep going.

Sorry for the long post but can't believe I never tried it out till now.

oneilla

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I watched the 4 way match, the Jericho/Omega match and the Naito/Okada match and liked them all. I didn't feel any of them were blow-away bouts but they were engrossing. Jericho vs Omega was my favourite match of those. I liked that it came across like an actual physical contest. The main event was also very good by the end. I think that match would be better received if the outcome had been different. I still need to watch Suzuki vs Goto. Will probably give the rest a miss based on reports.

I also thought Kelly and Callis were terribly cringeworthy on commentary.

I'd recommend watching the other matches except Tanahashi/Jay White which was not very good

HandsomeBob

Don Callis saying Jesus repeatedly is over with me at least.

ERG89

Thought the English commentary while not perfect was great unlike in WWE OR when Jim Ross was doing it you actually feel like they are invested in it. Everyone in wwe from Corey to Cole it feels like it's a chore to them & direction goes off track with by hazing Byron or calling out Booker for talking nonsense.

Jerichoholic

We're all so used to WWE commentary that we don't realise how bad it really is. We don't question it. Much like when WWE wrestlers are shown watching a screen backstage, I mean it's completely unnatural but that's just the way it is.

Neil3030

Meltzer raised this point recently about the camera work, but I'll expand it to include the commentary, as I feel it's also relevant there - the camerawork and commentary in NJPW is led by the action in the ring, while in WWE the wrestlers position themselves for the cameras, and the commentators work to a script/direction. The result is that NJPW feels organic and authentic, while WWE feels completely scripted and sterile.

leggo

It’s apples and oranges. WWE are an entertainment show that aims itself at kids first and foremost, NJPW is a pro-wrestling show where it’s treated as a sport. You couldn’t do the latter production with WWE because the audience that watch it don’t treat wrestling as a sport because of years of conditioning otherwise so it wouldn’t connect the way it does in NJPW. If you enjoy NJPW, just be happy that it exists as an alternative to WWE.

Case in point: I was in Tokyo Dome for the show and was surrounded by a lot of international fans who damn near ruined Jericho/Omega for me. It was as if they saw Jericho and a switch went off in their head to start reacting like they were at a WWE show, starting stupid chants, heckling the wrestlers and just generally trying to make the match about them. When the ref started counting Omega out, one lad started yelling non-stop “WHY ARE YOU COUNTING REF?!!” And I eventually snapped and said “A countout isn’t a DQ you fool” and everyone around, including his girlfriend, laughed at him. It really annoyed me because I went there to get the Japanese experience, but the lads turned them around in fairness by the end.

Other notes: while Tanahashi/White was probably the low-point of the show, I didn’t mind it. I’d travelled across the planet and wanted to get to watch a proper ‘Tanahashi at the Dome’ match to get value for my money. So while it would’ve been different and notable if White had crushed him and took his title, I’d have felt really flat and like I may never get that Tanahashi moment again. As it was, I really felt like the booking had remembered me in the way they did it and appreciated that, whereas it would’ve been an easier night for all involved had they just made the match into a stunt. Plus having him lose three times in a row in the Dome would’ve officially marked him alongside the Nagatas, Makabes and Ligers as an older, novelty act and I think Tana has too much left in the tank to be that just yet.

It was awesome to be around Japanese fans and the way they react to wrestling, that really resonates with me. I’d watch at home the same way myself: watching what the lads are doing, not popping loudly but trying to read the story they want to tell me and only really popping when it hits another level. On that note: I haven’t marked out like I did for the finishing sequence for Okada/Naito in YEARS. I was on my feet screaming, as was everyone around me, it was class.

On that: the reaction to Okada/Naito was fascinating. Japanese crowds accept the booking for the most part, they don’t question it or protest the same way WWE fans would. But when Okada got the 3, it got ridiculously tense in TD for a while, like something was about the break out any second but they wanted to give NJ the chance to make it make sense. Okada’s promo ticked that box and everyone went away relatively happy, but the crowd really wanted to see Naito get his big moment. He’s crazy over, for example I was in the NJPW store the day before WK and they couldn’t put out the Naito/LIJ merch quickly enough. A while wall of it was devoted to that (with Okada himself only having a couple of shirts) and people were just grabbing whatever was on offer, even more so than the Bullet Club tips everyone has, it was crazy.

Last note: everyone I spoke with who saw it live says Suzuki/Goto didn’t resonate the way it seemed to with the crowd watching at home. I haven’t watched it back with commentary yet but I’d imagine they sold it quite well there. It was a grand match with one sick spot, but everyone is treating it like it was a classic and I’m wondering what it was we all seemed to miss in the arena. Like I enjoyed it because it was watching Suzuki live but it’s just an interesting note how actually being there can sometimes work against you.

Amazing experience though. If you’ve any inclination towards heading over yourself sometime, I highly recommend doing so. It’s also pretty affordable for a dream wrestling holiday. If anyone needs any tips or anything on doing it, hit me up and I’d be happy to help.

CastorTroy

Jerichoholic wrote: »

We're all so used to WWE commentary that we don't realise how bad it really is. We don't question it. Much like when WWE wrestlers are shown watching a screen backstage, I mean it's completely unnatural but that's just the way it is.

You saying you don't stand sideways while watching tv so anyone passing can see both your face and the tv?

Jerichoholic

Is there any other way? Also when I finish a conversation with someone I stare into space for at least 45 seconds.

Officer999

leggo wrote: »

It’s apples and oranges. WWE are an entertainment show that aims itself at kids first and foremost, NJPW is a pro-wrestling show where it’s treated as a sport. You couldn’t do the latter production with WWE because the audience that watch it don’t treat wrestling as a sport because of years of conditioning otherwise so it wouldn’t connect the way it does in NJPW. If you enjoy NJPW, just be happy that it exists as an alternative to WWE.

Case in point: I was in Tokyo Dome for the show and was surrounded by a lot of international fans who damn near ruined Jericho/Omega for me. It was as if they saw Jericho and a switch went off in their head to start reacting like they were at a WWE show, starting stupid chants, heckling the wrestlers and just generally trying to make the match about them. When the ref started counting Omega out, one lad started yelling non-stop “WHY ARE YOU COUNTING REF?!!” And I eventually snapped and said “A countout isn’t a DQ you fool” and everyone around, including his girlfriend, laughed at him. It really annoyed me because I went there to get the Japanese experience, but the lads turned them around in fairness by the end.

Other notes: while Tanahashi/White was probably the low-point of the show, I didn’t mind it. I’d travelled across the planet and wanted to get to watch a proper ‘Tanahashi at the Dome’ match to get value for my money. So while it would’ve been different and notable if White had crushed him and took his title, I’d have felt really flat and like I may never get that Tanahashi moment again. As it was, I really felt like the booking had remembered me in the way they did it and appreciated that, whereas it would’ve been an easier night for all involved had they just made the match into a stunt. Plus having him lose three times in a row in the Dome would’ve officially marked him alongside the Nagatas, Makabes and Ligers as an older, novelty act and I think Tana has too much left in the tank to be that just yet.

It was awesome to be around Japanese fans and the way they react to wrestling, that really resonates with me. I’d watch at home the same way myself: watching what the lads are doing, not popping loudly but trying to read the story they want to tell me and only really popping when it hits another level. On that note: I haven’t marked out like I did for the finishing sequence for Okada/Naito in YEARS. I was on my feet screaming, as was everyone around me, it was class.

On that: the reaction to Okada/Naito was fascinating. Japanese crowds accept the booking for the most part, they don’t question it or protest the same way WWE fans would. But when Okada got the 3, it got ridiculously tense in TD for a while, like something was about the break out any second but they wanted to give NJ the chance to make it make sense. Okada’s promo ticked that box and everyone went away relatively happy, but the crowd really wanted to see Naito get his big moment. He’s crazy over, for example I was in the NJPW store the day before WK and they couldn’t put out the Naito/LIJ merch quickly enough. A while wall of it was devoted to that (with Okada himself only having a couple of shirts) and people were just grabbing whatever was on offer, even more so than the Bullet Club tips everyone has, it was crazy.

Last note: everyone I spoke with who saw it live says Suzuki/Goto didn’t resonate the way it seemed to with the crowd watching at home. I haven’t watched it back with commentary yet but I’d imagine they sold it quite well there. It was a grand match with one sick spot, but everyone is treating it like it was a classic and I’m wondering what it was we all seemed to miss in the arena. Like I enjoyed it because it was watching Suzuki live but it’s just an interesting note how actually being there can sometimes work against you.

Amazing experience though. If you’ve any inclination towards heading over yourself sometime, I highly recommend doing so. It’s also pretty affordable for a dream wrestling holiday. If anyone needs any tips or anything on doing it, hit me up and I’d be happy to help.

Was it difficult to get tickets out of interest?

leggo

Officer999 wrote: »

Was it difficult to get tickets out of interest?

Not at all, they never sell out and the NJPW English website makes it as handy as buying any ticket. I know a guy who got tickets just a couple weeks out and you could buy tickets on the day too (though the queues there were insane). And there are no real bad seats. I paid €50 on the day they went on-sale and got floor seats. You get a great view there but as it’s all level seating, I had a tall lad in front of me so shimmied to the side a bit and had a clear view of the ring. But for €25 in the tiered seating you can still see everything fine (although there are a few seats where the lighting rigs block a lot of the ring, but you’ve got the screens too that show everything).

Oh, more pro tips I just thought of on getting tickets:

1) You don’t get assigned seats when you buy, you get them when you collect. So go down nice and early to the ticket office (it opens at 2 but you can queue beforehand) then collect your ticket, then go off and get some food (there’s a TGIs right beside the Dome for example) and come back around 3.30ish to get in on time for the Rumble.

2) We didn’t get tickets for New Years Dash as they only sell locally and then 150 standing tickets on the day. To do that, just go down really early to Korakeun Hall ticket office (same place as Tokyo Dome), write your name and the amount of tickets on a piece of newspaper and stick it on the ground. Japanese people accept this for queuing. Then come back around 2.30ish and queue up beside your piece of newspaper at the top of the line. We got there about 11am and were about 50 people out so I’d say if we’d got there for 8am (and I was raging because I was awake for that time too) we’d have been fine.