Property Market 2018

Bob24

UsBus wrote: »

There's no way the other European countries are happy with taxes on products sold in their countries being paid here. They are definitely working to clamp down on this. Can't see Ireland holding them all off much longer.

I’d definitly agree Ireland needs a backup plan in case this happens.

But while I absolutely agree with you that pressure is mounting for things to change, given how disfunctional the EU has been in terms of making decisions on any major topic lately, I wouldn’t rule out us getting away with this for quite a bit longer due to lack of consensus (we are not the only country benefiting from the current regime, so it is not just Ireland v.s. everyone else). I wouldn’t be surprised if there were grand announcements to please public opinions in the likes of France or Italy - Germany is a bit more ambivalent on this - but for the changes to be mostly cosmetic ones and to allow similar arrangements under different names once you get creative lawyers and accountants involved.

UsBus

UsBus wrote: »

......I think the corporate tax take is gonna fall off a cliff. ..............

Some folk would argue it has always been on the floor due to the 12.5% rate.

DevLit

Property is mental tbh. I won't be able to buy for at least 3/4 years, but I hope there's a correction of some sort so people can afford properties near there job ect.

Long commutes sound horrible.

Ash.J.Williams

It's not really a country for its people at all is it

Bluefoam

DevLit wrote: »

Property is mental tbh. I won't be able to buy for at least 3/4 years, but I hope there's a correction of some sort so people can afford properties near there job ect.

Long commutes sound horrible.

Don't worry, there won't be a world left in 3-4 years... Donald Trump will arrange an explosive devaluation of the property market by then...

draiochtanois

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UsBus

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

It's not really a country for its people at all is it

No its not at all. The basics of housing & health are in bits.
The government are banging on about record unemployment when so many are working in locations they can't afford to buy or rent in..There is only so long you can keep up that standard of living before something gives. Fine Gael are just coasting now, as they've realized there is no alternative..

Samuel T. Cogley

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Bluefoam

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Good value?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

draiochtanois wrote: »

This is why I think the market has gotten crazy:

https://www.daft.ie/cork/houses-for-sale/gurranabraher/139-mount-nebo-avenue-gurranabraher-cork-1771875

3000 sq m / 278 sq foot

Lacking kerb appeal for sure but it's nice inside and looks pretty central in cork. Don't know cork at all now but seems decent value to me.

Creamy Goodness

t'is nowhere near 3000 sq m though. ad specifies 70 guessing it was edited after the poster posted about it

Cyrus

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

t'is nowhere near 3000 sq m though. ad specifies 70 guessing it was edited after the poster posted about it

€3,000 per Sqm

Shedite27

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Nice starter home, 20mns walk from Apple, there'll be interest

theboringfox

Shedite27 wrote: »

Nice starter home, 20mns walk from Apple, there'll be interest

It is a modernised 3 bed .... I don't understand how that's not ok value. There's big discount in there for location already. Would cost lot more elsewhere in city. Seems a decent option.

James 007

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Not a bad house at all, only less than a 3hr commute to Dublin

M.Cribben

House prices impacting economic competitiveness:


http://www.thejournal.ie/jobs-growth-ey-4089964-Jun2018/

A NEW REPORT suggests that, economically, thinks are looking decidedly rosy for Ireland over the next four years.


The latest Economic Eye report for summer 2018, compiled by accountancy firm EY, suggests that jobs are set to be created at a rate of 57,000 a year (227,200 in total) in the Republic until 2022.


Meanwhile, Gross Domestic Product (GDP – a measure of the value of the goods and services produced by a country over a set period), which already saw bumper growth of 7.8% in 2017, will continue to grow at a rate of roughly 3.84% over the next four years.


The company’s ‘Brexit Tracker’ shows that 21 firms or financial service organisations have confirmed that they will move some or all of their operations from the UK to Dublin in the aftermath of the Brexit referendum result two years ago.



It’s not all good news however unfortunately – the report, perhaps unsurprisingly, warns that the heightened levels of house prices and rent inflation seen in Ireland at present are “adversely affecting on overall competitiveness”.

Interesting also the comments on Brexit. Looks like it's going to increase demand for housing, although maybe not at the levels first thought.

davidmarsh

I see lots of empty houses everywhere

Bob24

M.Cribben wrote: »

House prices impacting economic competitiveness:

Lack of housing is definitly a genuine and major issue for competitiveness and attractiveness. But I remember reports saying pretty much exactly the same thing 4 or 5 years ago :-s (i.e. it seems like they are broadly being ignored and I guess as long as the economy keeps growing in spite of these problems it will keep being that way).

CalRobert

Bob24 wrote: »

Lack of housing is definitly a genuine and major issue for competitiveness and attractiveness. But I remember reports saying pretty much exactly the same thing 4 or 5 years ago :-s (i.e. it seems like they are broadly being ignored and I guess as long as the economy keeps growing in spite of these problems it will keep being that way).

My last company was having a hell of a time recruiting because the first thing candidates asked was "what's rent like in Dublin?". Obviously they could raise salaries but it was still tough when the pay which was handsome a few years ago would barely cover a hovel now.


Perhaps it's fitting that I just started a new job which is 100% remote. Not having to pay Dublin rents is worth (to me at least) about 30k in pre-tax income.

izzyflusky

I thought things were getting a bit better, I see some reduction in prices on daft until I heard someone else's experience.

This person went to see a house in a estate that historically has not been very desirable. He said there was 30 families waiting and the EA never showed up. He left after 50 min and there were still people arriving. Crazy.

Bob24

izzyflusky wrote: »

I thought things were getting a bit better, I see some reduction in prices on daft until I heard someone else's experience.

This person went to see a house in a estate that historically has not been very desirable. He said there was 30 families waiting and the EA never showed up. He left after 50 min and there were still people arriving. Crazy.

Very crap EA :-/

But yeah that’s the thing, it is very hard to draw conclusions based on daft only or even just based on viewings. To really know what’s going on you need feedback from people who are actively bidding on properties and who can see what actual achieved prices are.

Bob24

And yet another new build in Grand Canal Dock which gets sold as a batch and for which apartments won’t go on the open market for individual buyers: https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/cairn-homes-sells-dublin-city-centre-development-for-101m-37058988.html

(based on the number of apartments and total transaction cost, the average cost per unit is 800k - if it’s like other developments in the area I’d suspect this is for a majority of 2 beds, a decent number of 1 beds, and a few 3 beds)

I’ve been following the residential property market in the area closely, and while there are a few new residential developments to become available over the next 2 years, to date pretty much all of them have been snapped in that way!

Bluefoam

Bob24 wrote: »

And yet another new build in Grand Canal Dock which gets sold as a batch and for which apartments won’t go on the open market for individual buyers: https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/cairn-homes-sells-dublin-city-centre-development-for-101m-37058988.html

(based on number of apartments and total transaction cost, the average cost per unit is 800k)

I’ve been following developments in the area closely, and while there are a few new residential developments in the area, to date pretty much all of them have been snapped in that way!

This is the future... build to rent is going to be pushed out at a massive rate. Supply is going to get tighter for the general market and we'll be forced into a situation where we either won't have the means or the ability to purchase our own homes ...

Location wise build to rent is ideal there IMO. Not many would see €800k (let's say €500k to €1m range) as a good idea for am apartment in the flat of the city centre. Private folk buying those wouldn't be longterm owner occupiers and if / when property prices fall again isn't it grand that the likes of these special purpose companies are the ones who splashed out near the peak of the market.

There is a need for rental properties in this area, who own them doesn't really matter tbh.

awec

Seems a risky buy, no? How long would it take for them to make their money back in rent?

Bluefoam

Augeo wrote: »

Location wise build to rent is ideal there IMO. Not many would see €800k (let's say €500k to €1m range) as a good idea for am apartment in the flat of the city centre. Private folk buying those wouldn't be longterm owner occupiers and if / when property prices fall again isn't it grand that the likes of these special purpose companies are the ones who splashed out near the peak of the market.

There is a need for rental properties in this area, who own them doesn't really matter tbh.

It's all well and good to say that it works well there, but at the moment there are large developments of build to rent at bolands mills, north quays, stillorgan, cherrywood, lucan, point village, naas & these are only the ones I can account for directly... it's happening on a massive scale & when the government announce new house figures, these are included and make up a huge percentage.

awec

awec wrote: »

Seems a risky buy, no? How long would it take for them to make their money back in rent?

Indeed, most folk are as well off that special companies are buying these yolks and not the likes of you or me.

Once they come on stream and people inhabit them they are of benefit, accepting they'll be an expensive rent at the moment of course

The_Conductor

awec wrote: »

Seems a risky buy, no? How long would it take for them to make their money back in rent?

According to the REIT prospectus- they seek a minimum 8.5% ROI- preferably 10%- cognisant of the risks associated with letting property on the Irish market. Thus the gross outlay on the unit would be returned in 12-13 years- net more likely 20-22 years.

In a situation such as GCD- where the units average 820k each- this would infer a monthly rent of approx EUR3,400 per unit (which even allowing for the fact that they're to be luxury units in a prime location- seems more than a tad optimistic to me).

In the current year perhaps somewhere between 22-24% of all completions may be going to the build to let market- it would be nice to have the figures- I'm not sure whether there are any bodies keeping an eye on the sector.

This, apparently, is government policy. How or why anyone thinks its a good idea- I don't know..........

Bluefoam

Bluefoam wrote: »

It's all well and good to say that it works well there, but at the moment there are large developments of build to rent at bolands mills, north quays, stillorgan, cherrywood, lucan, point village, naas & these are only the ones I can account for directly... it's happening on a massive scale & when the government announce new house figures, these are included and make up a huge percentage.

Well look at how the private investor and buy anything to live in went over a decade ago for the country.
We all ended up paying for our own rent or mortgage and we had the pleasure of cleaning up a huge financial mess too. I reckon the large developments you mention are being funded in such a way that the Irish tax payer won't be on the hook if they go t*ts up.

Supply is needed, this sort of supply is what's coming on stream at the moment. It won't be forever, nothing is, the doomsday merchants will extrapolate that this is now the way, economics doesn't work like that. We don't know what's around the corner and more often than not opportunity is, for some.

Bluefoam

Augeo wrote: »

Well look at how the private investor and buy anything to live in went over a decade ago for the country.
We all ended up paying for our own rent or mortgage and we had the pleasure of cleaning up a huge financial mess too. I reckon the large developments you mention are being funded in such a way that the Irish tax payer won't be on the hook if they go t*ts up.

Sounds like the response of someone who already owns or is in line to inherit a house... how would you feel about the matter if you were approaching retirement age and didn't have a home of your own...