The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

Where is the evidence for this? Let's say they are moved and things remain the same?

I said potential, but i think it's a fact that long running busy threads will push other threads down... Do you disagree?

If a sub forum is such a death sentence, why do we have forums at all?

They keep similar posts together, which is what light hearted chatty threads are.
They would still be in AH, not some dark corner of the site.

Also, if things remain the same then no harm was done!

MadDog76

MadDog76 wrote: »

There's an issue that I don't even know is solvable or not (let you worry about that!) and it's the "No questioning a Mod in thread" Rule, ie. I say "I don't believe xyz to be true" and a Mod posts xzy bashing will not be tolerated, do not post on this thread again MadDog, leaving me with no right to reply ......... the opinion (and it is only an opinion!) of the Mod that I was xyz bashing may be totally inaccurate but if I respond trying to explain my position I'll be banned and the ban will be upheld in DRP because I'll be told "You weren't carded for xyz bashing, you were banned for challenging a Mod in thread, ban upheld!".
If I PM the Mod instead or try the Feedback Forum (:D) or HelpDesk etc. I'll just be ignored ......... having said that, I do understand why the challenging a Mod in thread Rule exists.

Anyway, thoughts?

I was thread banned today. I disagreed with the Mod's decision and PM'd them saying I felt it was unjustly OTT and outlined why I thought so. They got back to me not even 10 minutes later and said the ban was uplifted and was mistakenly handed down and that warning sufficed.

I wonder do people actually PM the Mods? I've PM'd them a couple of times and usually they're very fair. They won't always lift the infraction but they're not dicks about it either. That's just my experience with them on 1 to 1 encounters.

GreeBo

gifted wrote: »

If the new thread is interesting enough then it will gain momentum

Only if people see it, which is the point being made.

Same reason why forums don't have 10 stickys really.

Beasty

MadDog76 wrote: »

There's an issue that I don't even know is solvable or not (let you worry about that!) and it's the "No questioning a Mod in thread" Rule, ie. I say "I don't believe xyz to be true" and a Mod posts xzy bashing will not be tolerated, do not post on this thread again MadDog, leaving me with no right to reply ......... the opinion (and it is only an opinion!) of the Mod that I was xyz bashing may be totally inaccurate but if I respond trying to explain my position I'll be banned and the ban will be upheld in DRP because I'll be told "You weren't carded for xyz bashing, you were banned for challenging a Mod in thread, ban upheld!".
If I PM the Mod instead or try the Feedback Forum (:D) or HelpDesk etc. I'll just be ignored ......... having said that, I do understand why the challenging a Mod in thread Rule exists.

Anyway, thoughts?

I spent a number of years as a CMod and dealing with that type of issue was one of the main responsibilities

There is a process, which I have set out many times when addressing complaints:
1. discuss with Mod: if not happy with outcome
2. discuss with CMod;
3. start a thread in the Help Desk. If you've exhausted the CMod option Help Desk is where you are likely to get Admin attention and threads there are never ignored

Attempting to discuss in-thread both disrupts the thread and is likely to encourage others to chip in. The discussion then turns to the mod action rather than the underlying topic. You then open up the possibility of inquests into pretty much every mod action that someone disagrees with. The site is here to discuss underlying topics and not be a continuous feedback discussion on the site itself

The Feedback forum was never intended to be a place to complain about mods or their actions. It was for users to provide suggestions on how the user's experience could be improved. Alas too many posters used it as an avenue to attach the mod/admin/office hierarchy. I have already said in this thread we are due to review the current Feedback format, as we said at the time the changes were introduced. I would hope we will be able to start an Open Feedback discussion on that, but we will have a number of takeaways from this thread to review and indeed prioritise

gifted

GreeBo wrote: »

Only if people see it, which is the point being made.

Same reason why forums don't have 10 stickys really.

But there's lots of threads I don't see unless I go looking at page 2...3....4... etc...
I log onto boards at 6 in the morning....if I don't log on again until 4pm then how many threads will I have not seen...

end of the road

Zoey Famous Aftershave wrote: »

I fully agree. Those threads are doing no harm and encourage participation. There are welcoming threads for new users and a nice place to start your AH experience. If someone doesn't like them it's very easy not to read them. I also have a concern as to what would be deemed a 'chatty thread'. If a thread drifted into a bit of chatter would it have to be moved?
Why not move the politely slanted AH thread completely to the Politics Forum. Get rid of the 'breaking news' threads to a sub forum while we're at it.
Moving the, what have to be the most popular threads by post count, to a sub forum seems pointless . Should the recent threads in AH about clamping or free coffee be moved to motoring and food & drink? Should the thread about unpaid work be in an Employment forum and the various music video thread be banished to the dedicated Music forum? What would AH be for in future?

i think that is the ultimate question really. what is ah actually for. i think it was originally for light hearted stuff but it seems to have changed to being for almost anything. i think some users do find it an issue and i can see why.
for me i have no issue with the chat threads, i pop in to a couple of them to read the odd time but if i don't feel like doing so i will move on. i understand others don't like those threads and maybe they are right that those threads being on the first page due to their post count are putting people off. i don't know. i do know some people enjoy them also.
i think we can get a happy medium between chat threads and other threads but how we go about it i'm unsure.

i'm wondering if ah was simply kept to the light hearted stuff, and politics cafe made fully accessible to all users again with political threads moved there, would that work? or do people want a mix of different threads in ah?

i do think politics cafe needs to be made accessible to all users again as it's more or less dead now, all though i don't think it will happen. it really would be for the better if it was done though.

GreeBo

gifted wrote: »

But there's lots of threads I don't see unless I go looking at page 2...3....4... etc...
I log onto boards at 6 in the morning....if I don't log on again until 4pm then how many threads will I have not seen...

Yes but other people are seeing them.
However few will get the chance if John and Mary are busy flirting away in the first 9 threads.

the_pen_turner

how are people using boards.
I click the notifications button (32 threads now) and read any updates I'm interested in.
then I click boards button and see if there are any new threads
then hover over my forums and go through a few forums I check first. leave out the others until I have time
sub to any I'm interested in.

I keep my thread marked as read so there aren't that many new threads. I very seldom have to look at page 2 to see anything new.

moving threads to a new section wont improve anything

_Dara_

gifted wrote: »

The OP asked why were the numbers dropping year by year and it seems the outcome of the discussion is that by moving the chatty threads then the numbers should increase . This feel as though im being punished because I post in a thread where everyone is not judged or singled out and regular and new posters are welcome, every post is appreciated and there is no one out to drive home their point of view.

What happens in 12 months time if the numbers are still dropping...do we pick out another victim and sacrifice that?

We might be wrong. Maybe the chat threads aren't the issue. But it's better to trial something new to see if it will help than do nothing. The bit in bold is over-dramatic.

Vronsky

DrGreenthumb wrote: »

funniest is the mods that make jokes/comments but when you make a joke/comment they don't agree you're toast

and also the fact that boards are so afraid of being sued that you cannot really discuss any spicy topic

Sometimes they take it to extremes. Remembering the Graham Dwyer trial, they wouldn't allow discussion after the verdict had been delivered. We had to wait until after sentencing, a month after the trial ended. The story was dead then - but that was the intention.

Its almost like a order came from on high to not permit discussion so people wouldn't find out that he may have had an account on the site. It was pathetic.

gifted

GreeBo wrote: »

Yes but other people are seeing them.
However few will get the chance if John and Mary are busy flirting away in the first 9 threads.

Tell John and Mary get a room lol lol

Anyway im off to bed...really interesting reading all the different opinions.....and that's the true beauty of boards...the different opinions of people.....agree or disagree but always respect the other persons right to an opinion.

_Dara_

gifted wrote: »

Why move it in the first place?

Have you read the thread at all?

tomwaterford

the_pen_turner wrote: »

moving threads to a new section wont improve anything

It's the ultimate in comittee think/problem solving





Thread starts on about losing posts/dead forums etc......

by end as a proposed solution...a new sub-forum is suggested :pac: :pac:

_Dara_

_Dara_ wrote: »

Have you read the thread at all?

I am back to asking the same question as Gifted. My post in forum requests I deleted because I'm no longer sure.

Anyways I've a headache and am off to the bed.

GreeBo

tomwaterford wrote: »

It's the ultimate in comittee think/problem solving





Thread starts on about losing posts/dead forums etc......

by end as a proposed solution...a new sub-forum is suggested :pac: :pac:

Split two competing plants or trees and you get 2 strong trees.
Leave them together and at best only 1 dies, usually they both suffer.

And when you boil it all down, aren't we all really just.... Trees?:o

_Dara_

Deleted User wrote: »

Where is the evidence for this? Let's say they are moved and things remain the same?

There's isn't any obviously. It's a hunch. I don't really understand the resistance to trying out new things to try and help the forum. Obviously there's some guesswork involved and people's own observations and experiences. That's the whole point of giving feedback. There's not going to be a peer-reviewed study on the subject.

Things might stay the same. Or they might change. Let's see.

gifted wrote: »

If the new thread is interesting enough then it will gain momentum

Not if it quickly gets bumped to page 2 by chats threads being bumped.

Vronsky

Vronsky wrote: »

Its almost like a order came from on high to not permit discussion so people wouldn't find out that he may have had an account on the site. It was pathetic.

He did and it's surprisingly still here but it's pretty mundane.

Absolutely bizarre to pretend that this thread has ended up in a verdict of changing chat threads because one poster with a weird agenda posted this opinion fifty times and one other poster eventually said 'why not'

gifted

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I am back to asking the same question as Gifted. My post in forum requests I deleted because I'm no longer sure.

Anyways I've a headache and am off to the bed.

A trial lol lol

Fr_Dougal

I think the sub-forum is a great idea.

Users can chat away to their hearts content, and there could even be a welcoming thread in it for new AH posters that the posters who are more interested in chat type threads could run with. As someone said, Cool Vids and Pics thrived once it got its own section.

gifted

Now I'm going to bed lol lol

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

Split two competing plants or trees and you get 2 strong trees.
Leave them together and at best only 1 dies, usually they both suffer.

And when you boil it all down, aren't we all really just.... Trees?:o

sometime trees don't like having their roots disturbed and die because of it.

GreeBo

gifted wrote: »

Tell John and Mary get a room lol lol

Anyway im off to bed...really interesting reading all the different opinions.....and that's the true beauty of boards...the different opinions of people.....agree or disagree but always respect the other persons right to an opinion.

It is refreshing to have a thread where mostly people can debate while remaining civil towards each other.

So much of the problem seems to stem from people who get really angry when people disagree with them.

Can't we come up with a test for that?

riffmongous

gifted wrote: »

But there's lots of threads I don't see unless I go looking at page 2...3....4... etc...
I log onto boards at 6 in the morning....if I don't log on again until 4pm then how many threads will I have not seen...

Well that would be my point at least.. that because there are so many long running threads (not just chat ones either but also serious ones) that sometimes I log in at 6 and then at 4 and the same threads are still filling up the front page.. and the second page, and the new threads are hidden inbetween or there's just none there.

But nobody wants to punish anyone, I certainly don't want to see anyone's favourite thread locked. The suggestion (from just a few ordinary posters bear in mind) is just that by moving persistent threads slightly out of the way it leaves more space for newer threads which will encourage more of them.

riffmongous

GreeBo wrote: »

Split two competing plants or trees and you get 2 strong trees.
Leave them together and at best only 1 dies, usually they both suffer.

And when you boil it all down, aren't we all really just.... Trees?:o

Ach, I was going to make that analogy :P

_Dara_

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely bizarre to pretend that this thread has ended up in a verdict of changing chat threads because one poster with a weird agenda posted this opinion fifty times and one other poster eventually said 'why not'

Subtle. Who could you be talking about?

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I think the sub-forum is a great idea.

Users can chat away to their hearts content, and there could even be a welcoming thread in it for new AH posters that the posters who are more interested in chat type threads could run with. As someone said, Cool Vids and Pics thrived once it got its own section.

Yeah, I think it could work well. I don't understand the objections. The threads would still exist. And the chat thread users would still see what was happening in AH. Better than nuking the chat threads anyway.

Arghus

I'm not an extremely active participant in the chat threads - may have posted a few times in the TA thread, have never even looked at the stinge thread and I don't think I've ever posted in the "where are you right now" thread - but their presence in After Hours doesn't bother me in the slightest: they don't particularly interest me, but they seem popular with a lot of other people, so, fair enough, I say.

I just don't understand the argument that removing them is going to enliven the forum or open it up to new people - I just fundamentally don't understand the logic. By removing some of the most consistently busy threads in a forum, you hope to make the forum even more busy?...Wha? How can that be anything but counterproductive? I don't think they stifle the chances of other threads from reaching their full potential: if it's interesting enough people will post in it, simple as that - new threads still take off all the time.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely bizarre to pretend that this thread has ended up in a verdict of changing chat threads because one poster with a weird agenda posted this opinion fifty times and one other poster eventually said 'why not'

Huh?

job seeker

the_pen_turner wrote: »

sometime trees don't like having their roots disturbed and die because of it.

Just like the stingy thread! 29 posts of discussion yesterday and 2 posts today.. Need I say more?

Beasty

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyways I've a headache and am off to the bed.

I've had a migraine since 2pm on 29 December

Can't for the life of me work out what triggered it


:pac: