The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

_Dara_

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

You understand how discussion works, no? It is back and forth. Posters making points and rebuttals.

Don’t be disingenuous. There’s engaging back and forth discussion and there’s being a dog with a bone which is enervating to read and drives everyone but the two involved from the thread. You know well what that poster meant.

_Dara_

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Until the OP gave the numbers, I had no idea about the increase and then substantial decrease in posts since 2009. And I certainly have never had any sense that Boards was or is dying. I am still of the firm view that new technology is the reason for the decline, and all this stuff about moderation is only a sideshow.

To be honest, I agree. I think moderation is way down the list of reasons for the site declining in popularity. Moderation has always been a prominent feature of the site.

Main reasons, I think: less young ‘uns using messageboards (smartphones play a big role in this, I reckon) and the site redesign which hides the different forums behind too many dropdown menus.

I've received my fair share of infractions down the years and a few wee bans and yet I still think that the people here going on and on about the moderation of the site being the issue are coming across as the biggest crowd of whingers. I read the dispute resolution forum a lot and, in my view, most actions taken are totally justified. People just don’t want to admit that they’ve behaved like complete jackasses. Oh no, it has to be a big conspiracy. No other explanation. I'm broadly left-wing. It doesn't stop you receive bans and infractions, believe me. And I've deserved every sanction I've received. Wide eyed protestations are so transparent. I'm sure the odd one is indeed because of moderator bias. The odd one. Most are deserved.

And yet, they stick around. It’s really easy to not visit a website. Some people seem very invested in a site that they have apparently have a huge problem with. And, to be honest, I thought the drop off in users would be more dramatic. It's hardly on its last legs, is it? Improving the interface could really help revive the site, IMO.

rainbowtrout

evolving_doors wrote: »

Where does it go...
Cards,Bans, Squabbling , he said she said, pm's , appeals, mod bashing, revenge, doxxing.
Ain't no mod got time for that.

That is the whole point of modding. I'm surprised to see you post this because we had this very conversation about 2 years ago in the Teaching forum which was turning into a train wreck because of the lack of modding at the time.

I don't think it ever recovered, a lot of teachers were sick of the constant trolling of teachers on it. I notice that one of the mods that was inactive on it back then is still a mod and hasn't been on boards for the last 8 months.


In terms of the death of forums? It's a variety of things:

Forums like this one existed when social media did not exist/wasn't widely used or available. People didn't have smartphones and generally needed to have a PC/laptop to access the internet. Dial up was still a reality for many a little over 10 years ago, so forums suited quite well.

So forums were the natural online community for teens/early 20s. Many of those people are still here but are older. I'd say the majority of posters are in their 30s/40s. With that comes real life stuff that doesn't leave time for posting on internet forums.

Other social media are widely available with more features and all have apps which make them more user friendly.

Who gets to spend most free time online with time to find new websites etc? Probably teenagers and college students. I know even from my own second level students that they don't really care about Facebook and Twitter, it's all instagram and snapchat stories with them - and about them. They are not going online to have random discussions about anything (for the most part). As they say in business it's easier to retain an existing customer than find a new one.


In terms of issues that existing users have, I'd say some forums are a closed shop, it's frustrating to read them let alone post in them as an alternative view to that of a few posters would be savaged. There are some forums I never visit as it just wasn't worth the hassle. Others have lost their regulars over the last few years and didn't get anyone new to replace them, some because of the tone of the forum, some because of the way it was modded, some I'd imagine closed their account permanently in annoyance I'd imagine and never came back.


I'd imagine because of the myriad of reasons outlined lots of people have simply moved on from here and the site is simply not attracting new users because that's not how they use the internet anymore.

Cookie_Monster

Beasty wrote: »

I do think we are long overdue a cull of the dead forums, and a wider tidy up of structure. Those are personal views though. Yes we touch upon these points amongst the Admins, and some progress has been made but there is, in my view, a very long way to go.

Again it is a personal view but I would see the site condensing to perhaps 10% of the current numbers of forums, although some may survive as quiet sub-forums

Probably, but I woulnd't even begin to contemplate that until the crappy menu is fixed to something useful (like the previous one) where a little bit of exploring led you to a lot of fora. The current one is just completely unfriendly to use and is causing some of the decline in the lesser used fora IMO.

Cookie_Monster

Beasty wrote: »

Not at all - I would though dismiss a lot of the views of those who were waiting to pounce on any Feedback thread they could simply to have a dig at mods, CMods, Admins or anything else they thought would stir the sh!t for the site. That's why it closed, and if posters want that sort of thing it won't re-open.

Things could of course be different if the threads in Feedback offered genuine feedback and not simply complaints by disgruntled users. Yes there were genuine feedback threads but they tended to be lost in the noise created by the "rent-a-mob" crowd

Honestly Beasty, when did you morph from top notch regular poster to corporate admin bot? I'm actually surprised at most of your responses in this thread and how "towing the party line" they are.
It's a bit sad really

Beasty wrote: »

I actually think the old Feedback format also discouraged posters who may have had genuine feedback, as the place was incredibly intimidating

That's the worst excuse to date tbh
It was one of my favourite fora as you actually had a chance to make your voice heard and get things changed (initially at least)

mirrorwall14

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That is the whole point of modding. I'm surprised to see you post this because we had this very conversation about 2 years ago in the Teaching forum which was turning into a train wreck because of the lack of modding at the time.

I don't think it ever recovered, a lot of teachers were sick of the constant trolling of teachers on it. I notice that one of the mods that was inactive on it back then is still a mod and hasn't been on boards for the last 8 months.


In terms of the death of forums? It's a variety of things:

Forums like this one existed when social media did not exist/wasn't widely used or available. People didn't have smartphones and generally needed to have a PC/laptop to access the internet. Dial up was still a reality for many a little over 10 years ago, so forums suited quite well.

So forums were the natural online community for teens/early 20s. Many of those people are still here but are older. I'd say the majority of posters are in their 30s/40s. With that comes real life stuff that doesn't leave time for posting on internet forums.

Other social media are widely available with more features and all have apps which make them more user friendly.

Who gets to spend most free time online with time to find new websites etc? Probably teenagers and college students. I know even from my own second level students that they don't really care about Facebook and Twitter, it's all instagram and snapchat stories with them - and about them. They are not going online to have random discussions about anything (for the most part). As they say in business it's easier to retain an existing customer than find a new one.


In terms of issues that existing users have, I'd say some forums are a closed shop, it's frustrating to read them let alone post in them as an alternative view to that of a few posters would be savaged. There are some forums I never visit as it just wasn't worth the hassle. Others have lost their regulars over the last few years and didn't get anyone new to replace them, some because of the tone of the forum, some because of the way it was modded, some I'd imagine closed their account permanently in annoyance I'd imagine and never came back.


I'd imagine because of the myriad of reasons outlined lots of people have simply moved on from here and the site is simply not attracting new users because that's not how they use the internet anymore.

I remember that thread. I'm one of those who unfollowed the forum at that stage-too stressful. Having said that I think teachers in general are in "crankier" form these days at least from anecdotal discussions at inservice about other schools. I pop back in and out but its very quiet now and I tend to stay away from the political discussion threads if I can

IvyTheTerrible

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I get where you're coming from alright but I see mods as being chosen because of their interest in a forum and think it's important to continue to be a part of that community.

From my own perspective, I found that being a mod of a forum sort of spoiled the forum for me. I didn't post in potentially controversial threads because I didn't want to be accused of bias if I had to moderate later.

fancy pigeon

I'm finding more and more having a read or discussion in facebook groups. At least there, blinkered opinionated arseholes can be called out and everything under the sun without the protection of forum rules, as you stand back and watch it all unfold in front

Certainly a lot of vocal keyboard warriors have been very different in real life, and plenty more will never divulge too much for fear of being ousted as the opposite of the wannabe persona they so strive to project.

I do find more and more saying what's the point posting something to debate, as it becomes a one sided opinion argument. A lot of contributors are vanishing

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GreeBo

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Does that not contradict the thesis of the opening post? People should be concerned about valuable contributors no longer getting involved on a regular basis, not celebrating it.

Which is why they should (at least in my opinion) go back to being regular posters after a stint at modding.

If a forum doesn't have enough other posters who could act as a mod, does it really deserve its own forum?

Permabear

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evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That is the whole point of modding. I'm surprised to see you post this because we had this very conversation about 2 years ago in the Teaching forum which was turning into a train wreck because of the lack of modding at the time.

I don't think it ever recovered, a lot of teachers were sick of the constant trolling of teachers on it. I notice that one of the mods that was inactive on it back then is still a mod and hasn't been on boards for the last 8 months.

In fairness though that was at the time of union disputes.
Croke park 1 threads: tempers were hot cards bans handed out
Croke park 2 threads: tempers were hot cards bans handed out
Croke park 3 threads: tempers were hot cards bans handed out
Haddington road 1 threads: tempers were hot cards bans handed out.
Haddington road 2 threads: tempers were hot cards bans handed out
And then all the appeals/pm's that followed.

To say that there was a lack of modding is a bit disingenuous to all the time spent behind the scenes deleting/warning/carding/explaining/taking abuse in pm's etc.
And yes there were a lot of non-teachers who were entertained and given the go-ahead to flame bait as they were not precluded from commenting. That was a mistake. We also considered going down the closed-forum route but things died down,(plus freezing troubled threads earlier on helped).
What was being expected of mods then was to 'chair' the discussion in real-time... so what would typically happen is folk would go at each other late at night and it would be up to the mod to do clean up the next day (and all that came with that). With that 1 particular train-wreck thread in 2015 which I let continue we also opened up a feedback thread to air grievances afterwords. Reading it again it was pretty 50/50 https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057499595
Also at the time there was essentially 1 mod. The previous mod who's boots I took has commented on this thread and that's worth a read of why they stepped down.
The current inactive mod that was brought in had to go back to the real-world for various reasons. I've asked that their name be removed 3 times but it hasn't been done, either way another mod had been brought in!

So hear it is... the mod 'explaining' will now turn into 'mods moaning about modding'. When you're explaining you're loosing.

KERSPLAT!

GreeBo wrote: »

Which is why they should (at least in my opinion) go back to being regular posters after a stint at modding.

If a forum doesn't have enough other posters who could act as a mod, does it really deserve its own forum?

Some of the busiest forums on boards struggle to get mods, so should they close? It's a thankless pain in the arse gig that used to be a bit of craic, that seems to have been lost recently.

This time limit for mods is a no go in my opinion. If they want or need a break, fire away. The only time a mod should be forced out is when they are no longer fit to mod

evolving_doors

2017 3,123,577
2016 3,348,994
2015 4,048,985
2014 4,748,112
2013 4,935,597
2012 5,308,684
2011 5,618,076
2010 5,330,972
2009 4,610,143

The drop in posts could also be accounted for with the discouragement of the following phrases:

Have you tried blasting it with pi55

Yor ma

Thinly Veiled.

That's what happened with the Nazis.

First world problems!

GreeBo

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Some of the busiest forums on boards struggle to get mods, so should they close? It's a thankless pain in the arse gig that used to be a bit of craic, that seems to have been lost recently.

This time limit for mods is a no go in my opinion. If they want or need a break, fire away. The only time a mod should be forced out is when they are no longer fit to mod

Why do they struggle to get mods though?
Why is it such a thankless job?
Isn't that a huge part of them problem?

No one wants to get involved running the site and posters are leaving the site.
Doing nothing to change isnt a solution.

I'd guess that most mods have been mods for a long time at this stage.
No matter how hard you try, thats invariably going to end up in a closed shop appearance to users, both old and new alike.
As I said earlier, its *very* difficult to moderate or even treat people you are friends with as you would people you know nothing about, we've seen examples of that in this very thread.
All that does is breed contempt.


Its like being a new hire in a company where everyone else is still laughing and joking about that great Christmas party with Jenny 5 years ago and all the in-jokes go over your head.

Mods taking a break works for mods, it does nothing for the forum they moderate or they way they are perceived by other users.

Beasty

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Honestly Beasty, when did you morph from top notch regular poster to corporate admin bot? I'm actually surprised at most of your responses in this thread and how "towing the party line" they are.
It's a bit sad really

I've always been a "corporate bot" - if that's the way you describe me now, I applied similar principles when I was modding. I think you (or others) may have provided similar "feedback" when we had Cycling forum feedback threads. All I can say is I want what is best for the site, and if that requires a disciplined and standardised approach to how I go about things, then so be it. It's the way I have always worked in real life, and always operated on this site

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GreeBo

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Drop in post count not quality.

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Fr_Dougal

Another rule that needs to be reinforced is the ‘no chat’ rule in AH threads. We have over half a dozen threads that have turned into circle jerks, and stop new posters from getting involved. Take the chitchat to FlirtTar or one of those fora.

Fr_Dougal

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Another rule that needs to be reinforced is the ‘no chat’ rule in AH threads. We have over half a dozen threads that have turned into circle jerks, and stop new posters from getting involved. Take the chitchat to FlirtTar or one of those fora.

I think they have the opposite effect in that they encourage new posters. Surely it's more inviting to post in a lighthearted thread than it is to delve in to a abortion debate.

Also just on the "circle jerk" term, what exactly does it mean? A bunch of people with similar views who get along with each other? Or just a bunch of people who get along with each other?
What's so terrible about that.

tigger123

Deleted User wrote: »

Also just on the "circle jerk" term, what exactly does it mean? A bunch of people with similar views who get along with each other? Or just a bunch of people who get along with each other?
What's so terrible about that.

It turns the thread into an echo chamber, and if you hold an opposing view to the echo chamber your're less likely to get involved as you'll have a load of posters pile in on you.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

Also just on the "circle jerk" term, what exactly does it mean? A bunch of people with similar views who get along with each other? Or just a bunch of people who get along with each other?
What's so terrible about that.

If there are a bunch of long time posters who just post agreement with each other then they are not encouraging new posters to join, especially those with conflicting views.

Lively debate is what this place should excel at, not mindless agreement.

Motors & Cycling forum are two good examples of this.

I post in both but typically find myself posting in defense of cyclists in the motors forum and motorists in the cycling forum.

Without fail I will be drowned under a torrent of whataboutery by the regular users of each forum.

I have seen the above happen and felt myself a little out of place among some very strong opinions regarding certain topics. I've yet to see it occur in a lighthearted thread though.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

I have seen the above happen and felt myself a little out of place among some very strong opinions regarding certain topics. I've yet to see it occur in a lighthearted thread though.

+1

I don't really see it happen in those threads either, typically there is nothing to get polarized about there!

Wibbs

GreeBo wrote: »

I post in both but typically find myself posting in defense of cyclists in the motors forum and motorists in the cycling forum.

Without fail I will be drowned under a torrent of whataboutery by the regular users of each forum.

Your second sentence kinda describes what you're doing in your first. I mean why the feck would anybody go into a forum that's about one subject and bring up another? If lycra wearing two wheeled po faced menaces want to get digs in on BMW drivers with small mickeys and an aversion to indicators or vice versa, I say let them. I don't want to hear about the new Alfa Romeo in the Cycling forum, or the latest Campagnolo group set in the motors forum.

GreeBo

Wibbs wrote: »

Your second sentence kinda describes what you're doing in your first. I mean why the feck would anybody go into a forum that's about one subject and bring up another? If lycra wearing two wheeled po faced menaces want to get digs in on BMW drivers with small mickeys and an aversion to indicators or vice versa, I say let them. I don't want to hear about the new Alfa Romeo in the Cycling forum, or the latest Campagnolo group set in the motors forum.

Nonsense.

I'm not going into one topic and randomly bringing up another and I didn't say anything of the sort. I said "defending" as in responding to existing posts on the subject and choosing a contrary side to the majority.

It seems you are trying to avoid people with differences of opinion posting together.

Thats a hell of a way to run a discussion board...into the ground.

Permabear

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Permabear

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