The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18

....... · 02-01-2018 10:19PM

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02-01-2018 10:22PM

....... wrote: »

Problematical threads? You mean, people giving feedback. Just because you didn't like the feedback, it's now deemed problematical?

It was the same feedback over and over. And much of it is being replicated here, with the new piece of feedback being that people don't like feedback being gone.

It's just that none of it was addressed. That's why you kept getting the same feedback and continue to now.

To label it "problematical" is really very dismissive of the thoughts of the user base.

There was an awful lot of sniping in some of those threads. I remember because I was part of it myself.

....... · 02-01-2018 10:26PM

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Quazzie · 02-01-2018 10:28PM

Beasty wrote: »

This thread is basically circumventing the current Feedback procedure.

To be fair ye royally fúcked that up, so it means the posters are left with no other option, other than commenting on threads like this. There is a place for everything, and AH is not the place for feedback, but it kind of has to be at the moment, because ye took feedback away.

Beasty · 02-01-2018 10:29PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not at all - I would though dismiss a lot of the views of those who were waiting to pounce on any Feedback thread they could simply to have a dig at mods, CMods, Admins or anything else they thought would stir the sh!t for the site. That's why it closed, and if posters want that sort of thing it won't re-open.

Things could of course be different if the threads in Feedback offered genuine feedback and not simply complaints by disgruntled users. Yes there were genuine feedback threads but they tended to be lost in the noise created by the "rent-a-mob" crowd

I actually think the old Feedback format also discouraged posters who may have had genuine feedback, as the place was incredibly intimidating

It was quite ironic to see posters saying how wonderful things used to be on the site then complain about the likes of consistency in modding:rolleyes:

02-01-2018 10:29PM

....... wrote: »

It was Feedback! If it was snipey it was because people were giving feedback about things that pissed them off.

To remove it altogether was totally nuclear, way overboard, and another nail in the coffin for the site.

I disagree. There were posts that had moved away from offering anything constructive regarding the site. I do believe however that the current incarnation of Feedback isn't fit for purpose.

tomwaterford · 02-01-2018 10:29PM

....... wrote: »

It was Feedback! If it was snipey it was because people were giving feedback about things that pissed them off.

To remove it altogether was totally nuclear, way overboard, and another nail in the coffin for the site.

The only reason it was snipey and by nature problematic is because it was frustration at same feedback being ignored over and over

The next thread on this (after this is ignored) will be alot more snipey and bitter as people will be frustrated and lads reading/trying to gain ideas from it...will use it as justification to just throw hand up in the air and say it's a waste of time as people weren't civil/impossible to read

Arghus · 02-01-2018 10:30PM

....... wrote: »

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I used to have a problematical pain in my head after reading through a lot of it.

dxhound2005 · 02-01-2018 10:31PM

mikeecho wrote: »

I think we are witnessing the demise of boards.ie

All good things come to an end

Don't tell the collection of oddballs over on the "Lavhlahn" threads in the Radio forum. They rack up 10,000 posts every few weeks giving out about their favourite phone operator, Joe Duffy.

blackwhite · 02-01-2018 10:33PM

Beasty wrote: »

If you want any action we need to go away and discuss the comments made here. No point in doing that if the goalposts are still moving.

This thread is basically circumventing the current Feedback procedure. We said all along that we would review that procedure, but we will not be allowing any further site-wide "Feedback" threads in AH.

Having said that this thread has reached a far wider audience than some of the problematical threads we had seen in Feedback, and as a result I think the discussion has been a lot more balanced as a result.

If there’s one point that should be taken from this thread, it should surely be that the changes to feedback have been a disaster (unless, of course, the changes to feedback were designed to silence feedback).
It seems to be the one point that mods and non-mods on this thread have agreed on!

dxhound2005 · 02-01-2018 10:35PM

blackwhite wrote: »

If there’s one point that should be taken from this thread, it should surely be that the changes to feedback have been a disaster (unless, of course, the changes to feedback were designed to silence feedback).
It seems to be the one point that mods and non-mods on this thread have agreed on!

Not me. Someone suggested that when a thread was closed another one should be opened to facilitate feedback about the one that was closed. I called it a mad idea then, and I still think it is a mad idea.

Beasty · 02-01-2018 10:35PM

blackwhite wrote: »

If there’s one point that should be taken from this thread, it should surely be that the changes to feedback have been a disaster (unless, of course, the changes to feedback were designed to silence feedback).
It seems to be the one point that mods and non-mods on this thread have agreed on!

If it had stayed as it was it would, in my view, have been a much bigger disaster (but that is only a view, and none of us can claim anything as fact on that particular point)

....... · 02-01-2018 10:36PM

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Fr_Dougal · 02-01-2018 10:37PM

Thanks for allowing the thread in AH, certainly is a step in the right direction and it’s good to see that people, mods/admins care.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 02-01-2018 10:41PM

Things that would improve boards:

1. Reduce the amount of forums massively. Just have larger broad forums. You can tag threads as belonging to a certain sub-category. Then people can filter what they are interested in and leave out the rest or the other way around whereby you can remove stuff you definitely don't want to read and then browse the rest. That way you're likely to come across interesting topics you wouldn't have otherwise.

2. Abolish all the forum charters. No one reads them. It's a waste of time. A simple and very short list of general rules should suffice. Complicated charters and ethos policies lead to the near court room drama nonsense you see in DRP. Nobody has time for that level of nonsense over a yellow card issued for calling someone a neckbeard.

3. Reduce the amount of mods. Or at least make them less visible. Discussions seem less community based when a load of posters are elevated above the others. Mods should look like normal posters unless they are actually issuing a mod instruction.

4. The office needs to put their hands up and admit that the user interface they designed is catastrophically bad. It's incredibly unfriendly for users both new and old. Sorry i can't offer more constructive advice on the correct way the site should be laid out, I just know that the current set up is really really bad.

5. Admins should be more involved in these feedback like discussions. I get the impression that the admins are all people who were imbedded in the community and really cared about 8 years ago. They've obviously moved on in their own lives and don't find AH or boards in general to be entertaining or a part of their life. If that's the case perhaps it's time to hang up the boots. It's an unpaid position after all, so if it's a case of it being more of a chore than being part of a community, it's time to move on.

6. Not sure if the close account button is still there, but it definitely was instrumental in destroying a huge amount of the user base by tempting people to leave in a huff and close their account. Many probably never came back and those that did were less visible.

7. It's been said lots before but I want to mention it again. Mods need to stop locking threads. Let the users decide what's worth reading/posting. It will die a natural death if it's not worth reading.

8. Mods should care less about reported posts. I understand that mods aren't going to have tome to read every post in their forum. But if you only read the reported posts you get a skewed version of events. The squeaky wheel gets the oil etc. It allows nuisance posters to just report every time they get faux offended by a heated argument.

Just some random thoughts from the top of my head. No particular order and I haven't thought it through.

Less is more though. Less forums, less rules, less mods, less entertaining complaints very seriously, more fun.

dudara · 02-01-2018 10:41PM

blackwhite wrote: »

If there’s one point that should be taken from this thread, it should surely be that the changes to feedback have been a disaster (unless, of course, the changes to feedback were designed to silence feedback).
It seems to be the one point that mods and non-mods on this thread have agreed on!

The Feedback format needed to change as the signal to noise ratio was not right. There was Feedback yes, but there were also a lot of grievances aired at any opportunity, which drowned out the good points.

It’s definitely right to say that we need to reconsider Feedback, but it has to be designed so that we get genuine feedback, positive and constructive alike, without getting dragged off-topic.

dxhound2005 · 02-01-2018 10:42PM

Until the OP gave the numbers, I had no idea about the increase and then substantial decrease in posts since 2009. And I certainly have never had any sense that Boards was or is dying. I am still of the firm view that new technology is the reason for the decline, and all this stuff about moderation is only a sideshow.

blackwhite · 02-01-2018 10:44PM

Beasty wrote: »

If it had stayed as it was it would, in my view, have been a much bigger disaster (but that is only a view, and none of us can claim anything as fact on that particular point)

Agreed on that - it was very clear there was a cohort of constant reregs who would appear on most of the threads jsut looking to just get their digs in.

That said, there’s dozens of options between the two extremes of leaving as is, and just killing it off. Access request system, or min no of time since joining and no of posts would have cleared up the majority of the problems there.

If the office wanted to just remove feedback, then they could have just been honest and said that. What’s been implemented just gives the impression of wanting to silence any negative feedback.

Vronsky · 02-01-2018 10:51PM

Beasty wrote: »

This thread will not be left open indefinitely, but I would like to give anyone who's been away for an extended festive break an opportunity to contribute any comments/suggestions

Why not let just it die? It will run out of steam eventually. This thread has almost 900 posts over the course of a few days so it clearly is something people want to talk about

I mean closing it just plays into the hands of your detractors.

Beasty · 02-01-2018 10:53PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Until the OP gave the numbers, I had no idea about the increase and then substantial decrease in posts since 2009. And I certainly have never had any sense that Boards was or is dying. I am still of the firm view that new technology is the reason for the decline, and all this stuff about moderation is only a sideshow.

I have some sympathy with this view, and we are certainly not seeing younger posters joining in the way they used to. I do think the economic circumstances gave a lot of people a lot more "leisure" time than they have now for an extended period probably starting around the time that comparison started.

I have already posted in this thread that posts in 2017 there were 50%+ more posts than 10 years previously. The "decline" in 2017 has levelled off a bit also. That certainly does not mean there are no issues, and technology may further diminish numbers - who knows?

A few have pointed out though there is still a demand for discussion forums, and there may be ways to bring some of the less popular topics back to life. Equally if we can find a format that retains the old guard while appealing to the young 'uns then maybe that decline can be halted and possibly reversed. Of course some will say the decline is terminal, but they can no better see into the future than I can.

Jobs OXO · 02-01-2018 10:54PM

dudara wrote: »

The Feedback format needed to change as the signal to noise ratio was not right. There was Feedback yes, but there were also a lot of grievances aired at any opportunity, which drowned out the good points.

It’s definitely right to say that we need to reconsider Feedback, but it has to be designed so that we get genuine feedback, positive and constructive alike, without getting dragged off-topic.

Who can up with the current feedback format? Someone must have proposed it and it's their "baby", their "bright idea" - likely they will try and defend the status quo to prove they were right.

Beasty · 02-01-2018 10:54PM

Vronsky wrote: »

Why not let just it die? It will run out of steam eventually. This thread has almost 900 posts over the course of a few days so it clearly is something people want to talk about

I mean closing it just plays into the hands of your detractors.

I've already addressed that point twice in the past couple of hours

OneOfThem Stumbled · 02-01-2018 10:57PM

Just my two cent

Irish College subreddits are even more dead than board.ie college forums. Facebook has got the monopoly, but besides small private groups, it doesn't do a good job - particularly for larger community social media stuff. The lack of anonymity, the unstructured nature of content, etc. all make Facebook pretty shít for local issues.

I think a lot of people in younger demographic don't know about boards until a forum just happens to show up in a google search. If you could work out how to make the trending content more shareable across other platforms that would massively help exposure.
The old forum design needs significant cosmetic tweaking - but not the redesign it got. Although I think the redesign looks pretty, its reduced functionality is a bit of a killer
Happening on an interesting thread that has a thousand posts already is a bit off-putting. Some means to highlight the most important posts would be good. At the moment the only thing that I can think of that would work here would be order-by-likes.
By default hide forums that haven't had a post for months. Clearly they shouldn't be deleted, but, like old threads, fade into the background. It would make site navigation a bit easier too.
A decent app is probably essential going forward, but, let's be frank, typing isn't really ever going to be much fun on a phone (unless you have a monstrously large screen).
The interface for writing posts is too archaic. At the moment I'm having to type [ * ] for each point I'm making. If it weren't for the Youtube button it'd feel 1990s-ish.

Oh and stop making people write **** as shít

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 02-01-2018 10:58PM

It's this type of tat-for-tat over and back with no change is any opinion by anybody, that brings a thread to a dead end.

Beasty · 02-01-2018 10:59PM

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Who can up with the current feedback format? Someone must have proposed it and it's their "baby", their "bright idea" - likely they will try and defend the status quo to prove they were right.

I only became an Admin just before the new format was introduced. I certainly saw no individual as "owning" the idea, but a lot of thought was given to the decision

I hope it has given some of those posters who made it very toxic a bit of food for thought. If so, maybe the decision was for the better of the site long term. Again though I claim no ability to forsee the future. What I do know is the decision was made in good faith on the back of the behaviour of a number of posters who seemed to take some satisfaction in contributing to that toxicity

dudara · 02-01-2018 11:03PM

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Who can up with the current feedback format? Someone must have proposed it and it's their "baby", their "bright idea" - likely they will try and defend the status quo to prove they were right.

We’ve already stated that we are looking at changing it. Stop stirring.

GreeBo · 02-01-2018 11:05PM

Beasty wrote: »

. What I do know is the decision was made in good faith on the back of the behaviour of a number of posters who seemed to take some satisfaction in contributing to that toxicity

Why remove the forum instead of just removing the posters causing the problems?

It seems like you know exactly who they are, so why not just zap them? No one has an inalienable right to boards.

I'm assuming this isn't the case, but it's as if "you" keep people around who cause nothing but trouble, almost as a crutch to beat the rest of us with.
"This is why we can't have nice things!"

A smaller number of good posters is far more valuable than a large, pissed off group of people.
Though perhaps this is a numbers game driven from the office...?

mirrorwall14 · 02-01-2018 11:05PM

Full disclosure I've been a moderator in the past. A few things I've come to believe/realise over the last few years (and several accounts) though:

1. It is possible to be on this site with thousands and thousands of posts over long years and never get carded or have to interact with the penalty systems but I do appreciate that the removal of the feedback forum and the dispute resolution forum need to be addressed.

2. Moderation is an often lonely, difficult job with very little support from anyone higher up in boards. I have every sympathy with moderators and would never do it again personally.

3. Being a moderator of a particular forum meant that I stopped being a prolific poster in it. I have never returned there to the extent that I did in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if this is replicated with other posters over the years and should be considered as a consequence of moderation particularly now that post counts are declining

4. Boards.ie has and continues to be an amazing resource for local knowledge and discussion. The moderation and basic rules has made it a phenomenal resource which continues to stand. Facebook groups etc cannot be properly google searched long after the original discussion. I know I can google "chipper in Mullingar" and I'll find a boards thread discussing it. Probably a few actually, dating back at least 10 years!

5. The forums need to be merged in a massive way. There is not enough traffic to support them properly in the current structure in my honest opinion. Any forum with less than 30 posts/replies a week should be part of a larger forum. This will piss some people off but faster moving forums is I believe needed considering what you are working against (facebook etc). There are certain large forums e.g. Acc&Property, Bargain Alerts etc which work as standalones but others need to be merged. For example a lot of the 3rd level forums would do a lot better under one big 3rd level banner. If something justifies splitting off again at a later date so be it but right now there is nothing happening which puts off new posters.

6. I'd love to see a "featured forum" added. Very simple addition to the front page weekly with some new discussion threads in the forum that week. I believe it could revitalise some of the quieter forums. Personally right now I do "my threads", "my forums", "latest posts" in that order which means I never hit the random quieter forums

7. The permanent banning of any prolific poster (with over 10k posts for example) needs to be very very carefully thought through. Yes they may have picked up "enough" bans along the way but considering the level of posting that they have done alternative sanctions should be considered particularly if the "final ban" has been picked up in a different forum to one where they are a resourceful poster. I'm thinking of a couple of particular posters who are now gone. Yes permanently ban them from that forum where they acted the maggot but try to avoid permanent site banning if at all possible. Actually I don't know why there is permanent site banning in the first place. 5 year ban for example if its absolutely necessary but most of us do a hell of a lot of growing up in 5 years, particularly if like me you join in college. We don't even have life in prison in Ireland!

Thats me for now I think. I'd love to see the featured forum in particular. There are areas of the site that I've only discovered due to a link in a random thread (like mustard!)

tomwaterford · 02-01-2018 11:05PM

Beasty wrote: »

I only became an Admin just before the new format was introduced. I certainly saw no individual as "owning" the idea, but a lot of thought was given to the decision

A lot of taught was given to thinking up having a feedback forum that only allows pre approved posts??

Was any taught given to what this would obviously look like/cone across as?? (That there wouldnt be approved posts that gave negative feedback)

Dyr · 02-01-2018 11:06PM

dudara wrote: »

The Feedback format needed to change as the signal to noise ratio was not right. There was Feedback yes, but there were also a lot of grievances aired at any opportunity, which drowned out the good points.

It’s definitely right to say that we need to reconsider Feedback, but it has to be designed so that we get genuine feedback, positive and constructive alike, without getting dragged off-topic.

If your definition of "noise" is criticism then it was.

I used to call the feedback forum "Circle the wagons" because that's all it was in the end.

You want to improve boards, prevent people from racking up huge amounts forum modships/cmods/admins. I've seen loads of people over the years come through, rack up huge amounts of titles do a load of long term damage with their shananigans and then eventually melt down and f**k off. This mod malarkey attracts some fruit loops and one of the signs is they want as much control as possible

The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

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The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18