Mobile phone radiation - the cigarettes of our generation?

flaneur

Generally you'll only see that florescent tube effect with very high power AM transmitter systems and they're scarily high wattage - half a gigawatt in some cases getting output in the 100 to 900kHz area. Not MHz

Old transmission systems used single very high power sites. Modern system use multiple low wattage sites

Brute force broadcasting.

The biggest risk to humans actually from RF is cataracts.

Your eyes can't dissipate heat very well from the lens. So if you expose them to high intensity RF (including IR)(usually from the sun) it will cook the lens much like an egg white.

rgodard80a

In fairness, liberalism flourishes in a rich area.... so it's no surprise that California is the source of this.

Someone with wealth and the need for social approval is going to dictate their views to the world.

Just look at the "smug alert" episode of South Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert!

s7ryf3925pivug

Yamanoto wrote: »

Patients in Ireland who have undergone removal / partial removal of Glioblastomas (which will almost certainly return) are told by Neurologists to avoid the use of mobile phones.

I had a relation who had this surgery and was not told this.

Tropheus

Kuva wrote: »

No, we know sugar is a killer, we don't have doctors telling you to eat more.

I disagree. We have doctors treating Type 2 Diabetes with drugs rather than diet. "Keep eating the sugar, here's a pill".

The food industry hides it in ingredients under different names to conceal it. It's added to nearly everything at this stage in some form or another.

Kuva

Tropheus wrote: »

I disagree. We have doctors treating Type 2 Diabetes with drugs rather than diet. "Keep eating the sugar, here's a pill".

Change your Doc.

Tropheus

Kuva wrote: »

Change your Doc.

Doesn't exactly solve the point I'm making.

dxhound2005

Phone masts are dangerous. If they are within a mile of someone who thinks they might bring down the price of local property. So are electricity pylons, wind farms and solar farms.

Life expectancy in the US has just fallen for the second year in a row. First time for over 50 years. Even AIDS only brought it down for one year in the 1990's.

Must be the phones.

flaneur

There's one within about 1 mile of EVERY house in EVERY urban area, small town and village everywhere in the world. So, I guess it's time to write off Central London and downtown Manhattan and Paris' most expensive arrondissements.

In general the RF output of mobile phone towers is quite low power. They're only covering small areas and aren't powerful broadcasting transmitters at all. In urban areas, you're looking at large numbers of very low powered mobile phone sites. This actually reduces your exposure to RF from your mobile phone itself as the short distances mean your handset needs to transmit far less power to work. They can have ranges of as little as a couple of km. There are even micro and picocells that are not much more powerful than a WiFi router and provide coverage in areas that main sites can't reach.

Electricity transmission lines have been shown, over and over again to have absolutely no link whatsoever to cancer.

The studies quoted linked clusters of lines to cancer, but neglected to link where those lines were going - feeding highly polluting heavy industry centres that included things like steel mills (which have got a potential to cause cancer clusters when mismanaged / emitting certain pollutants). So clusters of lines often meant clusters of heavy industry. It's a classic example of correlation not equating to causation and a very misleading scare story.

If there were issues with power lines causing cancer, you'd see high incidences of cancer amongst linesmen and people working with heavy power systems. There's no evidence of that at all.

Wind farms and solar panels are NOT dangerous unless you have someone drop one on your head or you decide to go for a ride on a turbine blade.

Capt'n Midnight

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Life expectancy in the US has just fallen for the second year in a row. First time for over 50 years. Even AIDS only brought it down for one year in the 1990's.

Must be the phones.

So it's not the chlorinated chicken , or the hormones in the beef or the GMO ?

In reality
Opioid crisis linked to two-year drop in US life expectancy

In 2016, 63,600 people died from a drug overdose, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) - up 21% from the previous year and three times the rate in 1999.

flaneur

The US is experiencing falling living standards on average too. You've increasing concentration of wealth, huge income inequality, political hostility towards socially provided services leading to the winding down and even removal many programmes.

Socially, the US peaked sometime in the 1970s and it has been going downhill since. The more extreme politics gets, the more you will see negative statistics around things like life expectancy. There aren't very many developed countries which would have a political movement arguing AGAINST universal healthcare. Even in countries that don't have it, it's an aspiration.

If it continues the way it's going, you will see a growing number of indicators starting to slip backwards.

SlowBlowin

Why are we talking about phones ?

Take a field strength meter and sit in any modern car, bus, train. All new cars have RF flying all over the place. Every restaurant, hotel, most shops has 2.4 and 5.8 GHz emissions.

Every been in a plane ? The amount of radiation you experience in an average flight is huge compared to terrestrial sources. A 100,000 mile frequent flyer gets about 20 chest x-rays worth.

Live in an area with granite rock, rented a holiday cottage in Devon ? Thats worse.

There is a place in the US, a desert, full of hippies that wrap themselves in foil and swear they feel better. I think that is about the only angle to avoid some of your daily dose.

By the way smoke from cigarettes is also dangerous because it has elevated levels of radiation that get exposed directly on your lungs.

SB

flaneur

People also forget that your systems are designed to cope very well with quite a significant amount of background radiation, ionising, non-ionising and a lot of random toxins and stuff.

Most of the main cancer risks were are exposed to are probably still chemical - products and pollutants that are quite carcinogenic. We have been improving things through much better environmental and product regulation, but there's still a long way to go.

I seriously doubt that mobile phone RF is high up the list of things I would be freaking out about. Things like excessive use of unnecessary chemicals, exposure to incomplete / poorly managed combustion (e.g. open fires) is probably a lot worse for you but they're age-old and warm and fuzzy so nobody pays any attention to that. That lovely smokey smell may be very, very bad for you.

dxhound2005

flaneur wrote: »

The US is experiencing falling living standards on average too. You've increasing concentration of wealth, huge income inequality, political hostility towards socially provided services leading to the winding down and even removal many programmes.

Socially, the US peaked sometime in the 1970s and it has been going downhill since. The more extreme politics gets, the more you will see negative statistics around things like life expectancy. There aren't very many developed countries which would have a political movement arguing AGAINST universal healthcare. Even in countries that don't have it, it's an aspiration.

If it continues the way it's going, you will see a growing number of indicators starting to slip backwards.

Are living standards really falling? Did the US peak socially in the 1970's? I don't know what peaking socially means. If life expectancy is any indicator of standards, then things have been on a steady upwards curve until now.

ED E

Jeremiah Breezy Author wrote: »

All signals to towers from mobile phones are microwave and thus based on 2.4hghz standards, same as bluetooth/wifi. No difference if 3G,4G,5G.

The only real exception might be networks using even higher or twin channel for up/down streams.

Best idea is as you kind of suggest hard-line internet, landline. Sat or cable fed TV.

All these gizmos and gadgets from doorbells, adjustable lights and non-stop recording Alexa yokes don't help with overall EMF/radiation exposure.

Utter horsemanure

Capt'n Midnight

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Are living standards really falling? Did the US peak socially in the 1970's? I don't know what peaking socially means. If life expectancy is any indicator of standards, then things have been on a steady upwards curve until now.

Back in the 1970's you could fund college with a part time job. And when you graduated debt free you'd get a good job could support a family.

flaneur

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Are living standards really falling? Did the US peak socially in the 1970's? I don't know what peaking socially means. If life expectancy is any indicator of standards, then things have been on a steady upwards curve until now.

The big one that has been cropping up has been growing income inequality since the 1980s. That would be illustrated by the steady erosion of the possibility of earning a decent income as a blue collar worker.

It's where you're seeing Trump's angry supporters emerging from, even if he's not really providing them with any answers - that's why they're angry. It's just being expressed in a weird way. If he doesn't deliver, I think you're going to see a lot of very disillusioned people.

Things like life expectancy are likely to trail any major social changes that happened quite a while ago.

dxhound2005

flaneur wrote: »

The big one that has been cropping up has been growing income inequality since the 1980s. That would be illustrated by the steady erosion of the possibility of earning a decent income as a blue collar worker.

It's where you're seeing Trump's angry supporters emerging from, even if he's not really providing them with any answers - that's why they're angry. It's just being expressed in a weird way. If he doesn't deliver, I think you're going to see a lot of very disillusioned people.

Things like life expectancy are likely to trail any major social changes that happened quite a while ago.

I go back a while myself. Not living in the USA I don't know whether you are right or not. If you are right then politics there has been responsible for a lot of bad stuff for 40 years or more, and Trump couldn't have caused much in his short time.

What I do know is that it is human nature to complain about everything, sometimes without good reason. And people living 10 years longer on average than 60 years ago, tells me than things are mostly OK.

flaneur

I didn't say Trump caused it. He's a symptom of a problem that has been growing since the 1980s and the advent of an increasing trend towards income polarisation, dismantling of social support and basically what we now refer to as neoliberalism.

Trump didn't cause it, rather he's the reaction to a couple of decades of quite damaging social and economic policies that have just put huge amounts of money into fewer and fewer hands in the US.

The unfortunate bit is that Trump may be the symptom but he's certainly not the cure.

dxhound2005

flaneur wrote: »

I didn't say Trump caused it. He's a symptom of a problem that has been growing since the 1980s and the advent of an increasing trend towards income polarisation, dismantling of social support and basically what we now refer to as neoliberalism.

Trump didn't cause it, rather he's the reaction to a couple of decades of quite damaging social and economic policies that have just put huge amounts of money into fewer and fewer hands in the US.

The unfortunate bit is that Trump may be the symptom but he's certainly not the cure.

Did 8 years of Obama not reverse anything?

Del2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Phone masts are dangerous. If they are within a mile of someone who thinks they might bring down the price of local property. So are electricity pylons, wind farms and solar farms.

Life expectancy in the US has just fallen for the second year in a row. First time for over 50 years. Even AIDS only brought it down for one year in the 1990's.

Must be the phones.

American's are dieing younger because the big drug companies lied and said that opioids were harmless and now the USA is dealing with a major opioid crisis. Due to the nature of the USA some parts won't provide first responders with the drug which stops opioid overdoses so poor people are dieing young, though I've heard from some first responders here that when you save a person from a opioid OD you get abuse because it kills the high.

flaneur

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Did 8 years of Obama not reverse anything?

There's a total overestimation of the power of the US president on matters like this. Congress and State government have most power of matters of internal policy in the US, yet Americans and commentators in general will tend to blame and credit presidents with everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidents_of_the_United_States_and_control_of_Congress#/media/File:Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png

Throughout most of the progressive years of the US, the House was run by the Democrats. The big shift happened in the 1990s.

4068ac1elhodqr

Just double checked the R/T bands on the popular iPhone6(/s), surprised they have such a range from about 800Mhz up to and including microwave 2.1Ghz.

TD/LTE (Bands 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 12, 13, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 38, 39, 40, 41). TD-SCDMA 1900 (F), 2000 (A) UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1700/2100, 1900, 2100 MHz). CDMA EV-DO Rev. A (800, 1700/2100, 1900, 2100 MHz) GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)

The latest Bluetooth 4.2+ are very low and efficient outputs. NFC is relatively new, but likely also very low wattage so not much to worry about there.
But the Wifi via '802.11ac' MIMO (5G) is reported to be replacing the overcrowded standard of 2.4Ghz with '5Ghz', that can't be good?

One thing folks forgot to mention is the mains powered standard cordless (2.4Ghz) land-line sets, apparently they output a rather high EMF.

Aside from the US's obvious opioid epidemic (as mentioned) knocking their average life expectancy (youngsters get handed magic pills even for slight indication of ADHD).
The also use a different electric cycle of 60hz, as opposed to the EU's more common 50hz. Some say the relatively low frequency 60hz is somewhat worse for the health.

Plenty of studies suggest you should never sleep anywhere near to the main house junction box, keep it out in in the hallway or garage.
I've seen folks wrapping copper wire near the wall plugs, and even office based grounding rods/mats.

srsly78

OP you can pretty much ignore anything California says - they are the ultimate hypochondriac state. If you are ever there you will notice warning signs at the entrance to pretty much any business saying toxic/carcinogenic chemicals are present (usually this refers to cleaning materials).

But hey at least you can smoke weed there so it's not all bad!

dxhound2005

Some say 60 Hertz is somewhat higher than 50 Hertz.

4068ac1elhodqr

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Some say 60 Hertz is somewhat higher than 50 Hertz.

But heard somewhere that 60hz is worse for the human bio-field than 50hz.

Anyway if you sleep with the mobile phone left on, and head next to the cordless land-line phone, which is itself next to the main electric junction box, you're stuffed.

srsly78

Ah yes the human bio-field. Which crystals are best to modulate the RF do you think? Should I consult my homeopath?

dxhound2005

Jeremiah Breezy Author wrote: »

But heard somewhere that 60hz is worse for the human bio-field than 50hz.

Anyway if you sleep with the mobile phone left on, and head next to the cordless land-line phone, which is itself next to the main electric junction box, you're stuffed.

I heard something somewhere as well but my head is that fried I can't remember.

4068ac1elhodqr

srsly78 wrote: »

Ah yes the human bio-field. Which crystals are best to modulate the RF do you think? Should I consult my homeopath?

Quartz, and don't worry about the gender of your friend, live and let live. :pac:

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

We light an open fire at home. I know it's unhealthy, but it is lovely.

SlowBlowin

Logic says that 50Hz would be better than 60Hz, as a rule the higher you go the worse it is.

Google "IEC TS 60479-1 - Effects of current on human beings and livestock"

True story: Friend of mine gave me some homeopathy tablets for arthritis, I never took them as I don't believe. When he asked how did I get on, I said no good, he replied how many did you take, I said just one, he said NO you got to take 4 or 5 per day. He didn't see the irony.