connacht v ulster

MarinersBlues

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I wouldn't get carried away, I would expect the other provinces to beat conn easily. Ulster are the gift that keep giving

We already beat Munster this year ... but Munster chose that day to be ****e as well.

Other teams choose to be ****e when Connacht beat them.

Utah_Saint

connachta wrote: »

Utah_Saint wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Biggest disappointment of the night : Niyi caught by Stockdale.

Otherwise, Connacht were magnificent. Just stunning.

I wouldn't get carried away, I would expect the other provinces to beat conn easily.  Ulster are the gift that keep giving

I don't say we'll win away in Dublin/Limerick, but you can't say it's anything else than a very accomplished performance. Good handling, good runs, back to Connacht 2015. We could target a ChallengeCup final.

Connacht still had to take their points, I agree they played well. Tbh honest the connacht forwards probably had a tougher game in training during the week.

mfceiling

Trimble is done. Has no pace and can barely jump a foot off the ground to challenge for a high ball. He has been a great servant to Ulster but his race has run.

Tigerandahalf

mfceiling wrote: »

Trimble is done. Has no pace and can barely jump a foot off the ground to challenge for a high ball. He has been a great servant to Ulster but his race has run.

Ya he doesn't seem bothered anymore. He had a serious enough foot issue I think so maybe he knew the clock was winding down.

thomond2006

mfceiling wrote: »

Trimble is done. Has no pace and can barely jump a foot off the ground to challenge for a high ball. He has been a great servant to Ulster but his race has run.

It's a shame to see. It's only just over a year ago he laid out Liam Squire in Chicago.

Didn't see the game but that's a score Ulster supporters are going to struggle to stomach. As positive as I am about the Leinster set up right now a result like that would be hard to live with.

I just spoke with someone who did see the game and said that it looked like Connacht turned a corner just in time and Ulster weren't ready for it at all. Still though, even if you're not up to go after a win, at least make your tackles and keep the score respectable.

Won't see anymore until I watch the game but anger probably justified on first reflection.

connachta

thomond2006 wrote: »

mfceiling wrote: »

Trimble is done. Has no pace and can barely jump a foot off the ground to challenge for a high ball. He has been a great servant to Ulster but his race has run.

It's a shame to see. It's only just over a year ago he laid out Liam Squire in Chicago.

Level collapses fast with age. Wait and see R.Kearney in a year.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Level collapses fast with age. Wait and see R.Kearney in a year.

Thats why Stockdale, Sweetnam and Conway were given gametime in November

I think the Ulster fans need to roll back a notch.

If you didn't know the previous you'd think that Ulster were struggling and Connacht were flying it.

But that's not the case. Connacht were woeful against Zebre not that long ago while Ulster got themselves back into contention in Europe.

It was just one of those nights.

Regardless of how Connacht are going we usually win 1/2 of these games every year.

MugMugs

Ah here lads. Are you seriously trying to write off trimble?

connemara man

Just so good. You can only beat the opposition in front of you and to put a score like that up was great.

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Level collapses fast with age. Wait and see R.Kearney in a year.

Thats why Stockdale, Sweetnam and Conway were given gametime in November

Oh BTW TOH was very good tonight.
(yeah that not what Joe wants, I know...)

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

Oh BTW TOH was very good tonight.
(yeah that not what Joe wants, I know...)

Yeah, he prefers them to be good all the time.

Burkie1203

gilberto_eire wrote: »

I think the Ulster fans need to roll back a notch.

If you didn't know the previous you'd think that Ulster were struggling and Connacht were flying it.

But that's not the case. Connacht were woeful against Zebre not that long ago while Ulster got themselves back into contention in Europe.

It was just one of those nights.

Regardless of how Connacht are going we usually win 1/2 of these games every year.

Something seriously not right there and they seem to have the perfect storm of

1. Poor squad depth which is badly exposed when they have to rotate to give guys a break
2. Poor attitudes from a squad culture POV
3. A head coach who isnt what they need

All 3 of the above need to change but if only #3 changes then very little else will. A new coach will have the exact same issues


By next season
Trimble and Bowe look done
Piatau is off and so might Cave
PJ and Olding could be in jail or playing overseas
Payne might never play again

Biggest concern now is Henderson might be tempted to head away for a few years

The poor tackling and general defensive malaise points to bigger issues then poor coaching IMO. Thats 130+ or so points conceded to Connacht, Treviso, Dragons and Kings. Thats an average of ~32 a game.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Oh BTW TOH was very good tonight.
(yeah that not what Joe wants, I know...)

I never said he wasnt.

Connacht have just had a record win over Ulster, and its also their record Interpro win apparently. You should be enjoying it.

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Oh BTW TOH was very good tonight.
(yeah that not what Joe wants, I know...)

I never said he wasnt.

Connacht have just had a record win over Ulster,  and its also their record Interpro win apparently. You should be enjoying it.

I am.
What's the most rejoicing is Connacht have 80-90% of their main players who're 26 y.o. or younger
We have a decent team for the next 5 years with inner ressources.

thomond2006

I mentioned it in the team thread also but what was Stockdale doing at fullback tonight? He's been a superstar on the wing. Don't mess with him in position selection unless absolutely necessary.

connachta

thomond2006 wrote: »

I mentioned it in the team thread also but what was Stockdale doing at fullback tonight? He's been a superstar on the wing. Don't mess with him in position selection unless absolutely necessary.

He prepares the after-Kearney, to avoid being forced to pick TOH
BTW Jacob was decent tonight, one of the very few for Ulster

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

He prepares the after-Kearney

But isnt that what your were demanding 3 or 4 weeks ago?

connemara man

connachta wrote: »

He prepares the after-Kearney, to avoid being forced to pick TOH
BTW Jacob was decent tonight, one of the very few for Ulster

Oh fluck off

Tigerandahalf

Given Ulster's troubles we have kind of forgot how good Connacht were tonight.

You have to say they play the game in the right manner, nearly always looking to run and offload.

TOH was superb. I think he is a player who would do better in the Super 15 given how they play the game down there. Lovely stepping and has that eye for a gap. Damian McKenzie springs to mind.

Jack Carty had a very solid game too fielding some excellent kicks. Just needs to produce a bit more away from home.

I think Ultan Dillane is finally getting the consistent game time that he has needed. He is better off out of the Ire setup and just play week in week out for Connacht. I don't think he will ever be a lineout operator at international level so can he hit enough rucks and clear out around the breakdown to develop into that rugged 2nd rower that teams really need?

John Muldoon is some servant. He doesn't play a bad game and is the heartbeat of that Connacht side. Connacht have been blessed he hasn't been involved with Ireland more. Ulster could do with a homegrown lad like that in their pack.

gally74

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Given Ulster's troubles we have kind of forgot how good Connacht were tonight.

You have to say they play the game in the right manner, nearly always looking to run and offload.

TOH was superb. I think he is a player who would do better in the Super 15 given how they play the game down there. Lovely stepping and has that eye for a gap. Damian McKenzie springs to mind.

Jack Carty had a very solid game too fielding some excellent kicks. Just needs to produce a bit more away from home.

I think Ultan Dillane is finally getting the consistent game time that he has needed. He is better off out of the Ire setup and just play week in week out for Connacht. I don't think he will ever be a lineout operator at international level so can he hit enough rucks and clear out around the breakdown to develop into that rugged 2nd rower that teams really need?

John Muldoon is some servant. He doesn't play a bad game and is the heartbeat of that Connacht side. Connacht have been blessed he hasn't been involved with Ireland more. Ulster could do with a homegrown lad like that in their pack.

I've been going to connect games for over 12 years and I've never felt relaxed at a game. KK is learning and the attack shows...... conn abu

The Lost Sheep

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Ulster need to clear out 4/5 players from the pack.
Herbst, Diack, Warwick, Ah You, Clive Ross are just passengers.

At the start of the season I felt Ulster still didn't have a quality prop on either side and that is something they need to sort. With Marty Moore coming in they have hope but they need a quality LH too. Herbst is always an injury risk so have to hope that Ross Kane develops.

With Trimble, Bowe and Piutau gone they are looking very light in the backs too.

Serious rebuilding job needed.

V der Merve is a big loss too in the 2nd row. He was a solid lineout operator and hasn't really been replaced.

Clearing out a load of players from the pack is possibly needed but how do you replace them? None are NIQs so how do you replace them?
Serious rebuilding is needed but from where do you start? Whole structure from domestic game needs change but how do you start that? Who leads this change?
CEO needs to answer a lot of this. The FOLK people have a point but getting rid of him is fine if new guy can get a serious improvement but there's far deeper problems that need to be fixed in the sport in the province that will really help the sport improve standards

Clegg

connachta wrote: »

thomond2006 wrote: »

mfceiling wrote: »

Trimble is done. Has no pace and can barely jump a foot off the ground to challenge for a high ball. He has been a great servant to Ulster but his race has run.

It's a shame to see. It's only just over a year ago he laid out Liam Squire in Chicago.

Level collapses fast with age. Wait and see R.Kearney in a year.

The Irish thread was locked, in part, due to posters ie you, continually taking potshots at players. It's good to see people still haven't learned a damn thing and will continue trying to **** up discussion threads for everyone else.

Zzippy

Great win. Line speed, intensity, accuracy, all the things that have been missing at times this season came together. Let's not forget it was a weakened Ulster selection but everything about that performance was spot on.
Watched the game beside Jacob Stockdale's parents... lovely people and proud parents. Good craic too.

policy75

Ulster took pride to a new low last night

Burkie1203

policy75 wrote: »

Ulster took pride to a new low last night

I remember watching Dragons game a few seasons ago. They were 15 points down with not long left on the clock and they defending their own line like they were 4 points ahead with a league title at stake. It wasnt like they had a chance of a LBP if they could turn the ball over and go the length. It was very much like they were accepting the loss because the better team won but they respected the jersey enough to keep playing. Keep defending.

I feel sorry for Kiss. He comes across as a genuinely decent bloke any time he is interviewed but has inherited a mess that needs a coach who has something he doesnt (a cnut -
like cheika or eddie jones) to fix and on top of that lost Payne, PJ and Olding at precisely the wrong time. At least two of them would be good defensive leaders and would make a huge difference to the first xv especially.

Going after Jordi, Marty Moore shows he has identified a need to build depth up front and having a second string pack that can win games in pro14 seems to be what he is looking to build which is the right way to go IMO.

The problems are badly exposed on a night like last night when he has to make changes to give guys a rest. He is doing what every other provincial coach will be doing in the next 2 weeks. Some of it is IRFU controlled, some of it is plain common sense (look at AP. Faletau started a pre season game in Donnybrook 5 weeks after the 3rd lions test - utter madness)

There is no easy fix to the longer term problems. A few more decent signings (or else if coetzee and Deysel can stay fit) up front to give two strong options in each position and probably 3-6 new backs depending on departures, retirements and potential jail terms are short term fixes.

typhoony

This criticism of Ulster is unfair, agreed they were poor last night but to make sweeping statements on the health of Ulster rugby is widely of the mark and an overreaction to one poor result, apart from the match against Zebre they have been playing well and winning the majority of games, you coukd easily see them bounce back agaist Munster, we on the other hand I think are in a worse overall position and if we lose the next 2 games our season could be over

Sinbad_NI

typhoony wrote:

This criticism of Ulster is unfair, agreed they were poor last night but to make sweeping statements on the health of Ulster rugby is widely of the mark and an overreaction to one poor result, apart from the match against Zebre they have been playing well and winning the majority of games, you coukd easily see them bounce back agaist Munster, we on the other hand I think are in a worse overall position and if we lose the next 2 games our season could be over

Ulster have been playing crap this last 2 months at least. This is absolutely not reaction to a single result and performance.

Watched through the match there. That's a team that has thrown in the towel completely. Change has to come, whatever it ends up looking like.

The post match interview with Kiss is extremely uncomfortable viewing. I feel very sorry for him, he struggled to get through it without coming apart in my opinion.

If a staff member demonstrated that level of anxiety in an internal interview id be suggesting they take a bit of time off. He looked legitimately shook.

MarinersBlues

Deleted User wrote: »

Watched through the match there. That's a team that has thrown in the towel completely. Change has to come, whatever it ends up looking like.

The post match interview with Kiss is extremely uncomfortable viewing. I feel very sorry for him, he struggled to get through it without coming apart in my opinion.

If a staff member demonstrated that level of anxiety in an internal interview id be suggesting they take a bit of time off. He looked legitimately shook.

Connacht were there as well. They scored a few trys.
It may be worth looking out for them if you have cause to watch the game again.
They probably had some effect on how the game went.

blackdog1

The Lost Sheep wrote:

Clearing out a load of players from the pack is possibly needed but how do you replace them? None are NIQs so how do you replace them? Serious rebuilding is needed but from where do you start? Whole structure from domestic game needs change but how do you start that? Who leads this change? CEO needs to answer a lot of this. The FOLK people have a point but getting rid of him is fine if new guy can get a serious improvement but there's far deeper problems that need to be fixed in the sport in the province that will really help the sport improve standards

Biggest problem with Ulster is defence and that is Kiss's department and because he's there they won't get a specialist defence coach. Scrum was a disaster and restarts weren't great. I thought they kicked too much didnt build phases and the backs were very poor.

MarinersBlues

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Connacht were there as well. They scored a few trys.
It may be worth looking out for them if you have cause to watch the game again.
They probably had some effect on how the game went.

Sorry Mariners, I completely forgot - Lads, to be fair to everyone anytime you comment about Ulsters performance, make sure you mention how good Connacht were.

irishbucsfan

Seems a load of problems up there all right (Connacht were good). And you definitely have to feel for Kiss (Keane was fine) given he was such a big contributor to Ireland.

I wonder if Gibbes might be able to survive this and come out the other side in a position to take over. It’d be a shame if he gets brought down with it because he might actually be the man for the job (Carolan is also a good assistant).

Granny15

connachta wrote: »

Oh BTW TOH was very good tonight.
(yeah that not what Joe wants, I know...)

He has some pace on him. Did you see him burn up the pitch to catch johnny mcphillips who is no slouch?

MarinersBlues

Good stuff lads.
I'll expect the same when Munster choose to play ****e on January the 6th.

irishgrover

Have connacht ever won an interpro where the opposition were not
A.) Piss poor
B.) Very unlucky
C) Fielding a team full of 2nd, 3rd string players

Whilst it's nice to see connacht get the odd win, if be much happier to see them occasionally win a game on merit as opposed to it being down to the other team....

Granny15

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I remember watching Dragons game a few seasons ago. They were 15 points down with not long left on the clock and they defending their own line like they were 4 points ahead with a league title at stake. It wasnt like they had a chance of a LBP if they could turn the ball over and go the length. It was very much like they were accepting the loss because the better team won but they respected the jersey enough to keep playing. Keep defending.

I feel sorry for Kiss. He comes across as a genuinely decent bloke any time he is interviewed but has inherited a mess that needs a coach who has something he doesnt (a cnut -
like cheika or eddie jones) to fix and on top of that lost Payne, PJ and Olding at precisely the wrong time. At least two of them would be good defensive leaders and would make a huge difference to the first xv especially.

Going after Jordi, Marty Moore shows he has identified a need to build depth up front and having a second string pack that can win games in pro14 seems to be what he is looking to build which is the right way to go IMO.

The problems are badly exposed on a night like last night when he has to make changes to give guys a rest. He is doing what every other provincial coach will be doing in the next 2 weeks. Some of it is IRFU controlled, some of it is plain common sense (look at AP. Faletau started a pre season game in Donnybrook 5 weeks after the 3rd lions test - utter madness)

There is no easy fix to the longer term problems. A few more decent signings (or else if coetzee and Deysel can stay fit) up front to give two strong options in each position and probably 3-6 new backs depending on departures, retirements and potential jail terms are short term fixes.

It's hard to say if it's technical deficiencies are the problem in Kiss' coaching as I don't know enough about the Ulster set up. Suffice it to say I think as with all things in life you have to be a Cnut to discipline a team effectively and he just wasn't disciplined enough in his approach to things there and it rubbed off on team performances.

.ak

Connacht were good, let's not take anything away from them there, loved the tempo they played at, but tries like the TOH try and Aki try just shouldn't have happened. The ball chasing from Hendo against Aki for the TOH try was unforgivable, you wouldn't see that sort of ineptitude and naivety in a J3 match. It was mistake, after mistake from Ulster. Something is definitely up, because on paper that was a good Ulster side (bar maybe Nelson who I don't rate). Everyone is saying it's the pack etc but there's a good pack there, with good coaches (Gibbes and Dundon are both very, very good coaches), gotta be something more deeply rooted.. I never liked the appointment of Kiss if I'm being honest, felt all too political, like... Oh he's got a contract, and so we'll keep him around as the Irish assistant because HR... and then we can't just sack him, so let's move him to a province, he'll do better there... Square peg, round hole.

Feel bad for Ulster, because aside from all the moaning, it's a good squad.

Granny15

irishgrover wrote: »

Have connacht ever won an interpro where the opposition were not
A.) Piss poor
B.) Very unlucky
C) Fielding a team full of 2nd, 3rd string players

Whilst it's nice to see connacht get the odd win, if be much happier to see them occasionally win a game on merit as opposed to it being down to the other team....

Pro 12 final 2 seasons ago in answer to your questions a) b) c).

irishgrover

irishgrover wrote: »

Have connacht ever won an interpro where the opposition were not
A.) Piss poor
B.) Very unlucky
C) Fielding a team full of 2nd, 3rd string players

Whilst it's nice to see connacht get the odd win, if be much happier to see them occasionally win a game on merit as opposed to it being down to the other team....

Yes, and you picked up some silverware on the same day.

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

He prepares the after-Kearney

But isnt that what your were demanding 3 or 4 weeks ago?

I am, and that's why I'm happy he did better than other ulster boys.
Gosh he's fast, the 1st man I saw who caught Niyi on a straight run!

Bazzo

I think I'm looking forward to the KK post match interview more than anything else. He's a character in the most Irish sense of the word.

Heard the Brive post match interview with Rob Murphy the other day and his answer to one of the questions was something like "I wouldn't bother answering that to be honest". Then shortly after they asked him if he'd seen the Ulster game last night and he said "No." Paused about 5 seconds until someone was follow up and said "I watched it this morning."

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Connacht were good, let's not take anything away from them there, loved the tempo they played at, but tries like the TOH try and Aki try just shouldn't have happened. The ball chasing from Hendo against Aki for the TOH try was unforgivable, you wouldn't see that sort of ineptitude and naivety in a J3 match. It was mistake, after mistake from Ulster. Something is definitely up, because on paper that was a good Ulster side (bar maybe Nelson who I don't rate). Everyone is saying it's the pack etc but there's a good pack there, with good coaches (Gibbes and Dundon are both very, very good coaches), gotta be something more deeply rooted.. I never liked the appointment of Kiss if I'm being honest, felt all too political, like... Oh he's got a contract, and so we'll keep him around as the Irish assistant because HR... and then we can't just sack him, so let's move him to a province, he'll do better there... Square peg, round hole.

Feel bad for Ulster, because aside from all the moaning, it's a good squad.

Why would the IRFU have been looking to sack Kiss? He was very successful with Ireland and he moved on when we had no succession plan in place meaning Joe double jobbed for a 6Ns. It seemed to me like this was a preplanned career development move. They rated him and wanted him in the system.

We simply don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes so can’t really comment to any great degree on how his personality fits with the organisation and what it needs. All we can do is speculate. He doesn’t seem to be a hard enough character. But I also have to wonder at this stage is there a blame culture being established in Ulster where the finger of blame is pointed straight at the coach(es) by default. We’re now potentially on our third coach that is getting the boot (McLaughlin doesn’t count given the circumstances) and is that allowing players to dodge responsibility for their part in all of this? Because I saw a lot of laziness in last nights display, and that isn’t on the coach.

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

.ak wrote: »

Connacht were good, let's not take anything away from them there, loved the tempo they played at, but tries like the TOH try and Aki try just shouldn't have happened. The ball chasing from Hendo against Aki for the TOH try was unforgivable, you wouldn't see that sort of ineptitude and naivety in a J3 match. It was mistake, after mistake from Ulster. Something is definitely up, because on paper that was a good Ulster side (bar maybe Nelson who I don't rate). Everyone is saying it's the pack etc but there's a good pack there, with good coaches (Gibbes and Dundon are both very, very good coaches), gotta be something more deeply rooted.. I never liked the appointment of Kiss if I'm being honest, felt all too political, like... Oh he's got a contract, and so we'll keep him around as the Irish assistant because HR... and then we can't just sack him, so let's move him to a province, he'll do better there... Square peg, round hole.

Feel bad for Ulster, because aside from all the moaning, it's a good squad.

Why would the IRFU have been looking to sack Kiss? He was very successful with Ireland and he moved on when we had no succession plan in place meaning Joe double jobbed for a 6Ns. It seemed to me like this was a preplanned career development move. They rated him and wanted him in the system.

We simply don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes so can’t really comment to any great degree on how his personality fits with the organisation and what it needs. All we can do is speculate. He doesn’t seem to be a hard enough character. But I also have to wonder at this stage is there a blame culture being established in Ulster where the finger of blame is pointed straight at the coach(es) by default. We’re now potentially on our third coach that is getting the boot (McLaughlin doesn’t count given the circumstances) and is that allowing players to dodge responsibility for their part in all of this? Because I saw a lot of laziness in last nights display, and that isn’t on the coach.

Ah I think if the players aren't putting in a shift that the coach has to accept some of the responsibility.

Obviously the players have to look inwardly as well.

Maybe they're happy picking up their pay cheques each month and just going through the motions safe in the knowledge that Ulster will most likely throw another 2 year contract when the time comes.

A culling of players I easier said than done because you need players to come in and replace those you are getting rid of.

There are a couple of players who are a total waste of a contract, and then there are 3 or 4 others who are just military medium players and really offer very little to Ulstet moving forward.

I'll not name them but there is a LHP, a second row, a back row who occasionally moonlights in the second row, a back row, a scrum half and an out half who plays a bit at 12 amongst them. Those players need upgraded.

Nettle Soup

Great win last night. Really enjoyed it.
We owed Ulster a good beating.
O'Halloran, Bundee and Dillane superb. Scrum was solid.

Mr Shikadance

We are now 2 from 3 in the inter pros this season. Won home 2. Lost away 1.

The upcoming games away will be a severe test indeed.

We are in a good place in Europe. Bravo!

Let’s focus hard on improving our league position. I would love us to be more consistent for the remainder of the season, while giving opportunity to some key personnel to work out our stocks.

With SOB to come back, we might have an opportunity to see a Dillane/ Gallagher second row. Would like to see a bit more of Thornbury too and perhaps Coulson and McCabe at LH.

Was lovely to hear KK’s warm comments after the game. It felt like the first time he may have felt at home with his new job.

exaisle

bilston wrote: »

The loss of Jackson is far more significant than the loss of Pienaar IMO.

We'll agree to differ on that...and in fairness, Pienaar is getting a bit long in the tooth, but from what I saw, when both were playing, Pienaar was definitely the one driving the bus...

connachta

exaisle wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

The loss of Jackson is far more significant than the loss of Pienaar IMO.

We'll agree to differ on that...and in fairness, Pienaar is getting a bit long in the tooth, but from what I saw, when both were playing, Pienaar was definitely the one driving the bus...

Cooney took his kicking 9 spot brillantly
the pack is Ulster problem

Some Yoke

Would Ronaldson from Connacht be an improvement at 10 for Ulster once Lealifano moves on?