The plight of the Irish Fisherman

DEFTLEFTHAND

We basically traded a large portion of our rich fishing waters for ag subsidies to the EU. I remember a Norwegian jounalist writing an article in the Indo a few years back, he was puzzled that we didn't have a larger fishing industry considering our potential.

The Irish fleet seems to have remained stagnant for years, no growth, old vessells and outdated systems. Coming up against modern Euro super trawlers.


I know in Britain that the fishing community were one of the strongest proponents for Brexit. Fighting back against illogical quotas, trawlers having to dump dead fish into the sea etc.


A dirty dangerous job, I respect all who do it.

Donald Trump

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We basically traded a large portion of our rich fishing waters for ag subsidies to the EU. I remember a Norwegian jounalist writing an article in the Indo a few years back, he was puzzled that we didn't have a larger fishing industry considering our potential.

The Irish fleet seems to have remained stagnant for years, no growth, old vessells and outdated systems. Coming up against modern Euro super trawlers.


I know in Britain that the fishing community were one of the strongest proponents for Brexit. Fighting back against illogical quotas, trawlers having to dump dead fish into the sea etc.


A dirty dangerous job, I respect all who do it.

Is this the official thought for the day?

falinn merking

Donald Trump wrote: »

Is this the official thought for the day?

No it's just a Cod from the OP.

Rumpy Pumpy

There’s probably a better plaice for this thread.

Are Am Eye

Donald Trump wrote: »

Is this the official thought for the day?

Don't rise to the bait Deft.

Donald Trump

Perhaps just fishing for compliments?

Donald Trump

Looking for a quick way to make a few squid?

Donald Trump

Might be better off spending their time on a tug?

That could hold for the boat of us I suppose

SuperSean11

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

There’s probably a better plaice for this thread.

Davy Jones's Locker?

mikhail

Fishing is an industry in trouble globally because of overfishing. Meanwhile, our agricultural output is in high demand. I think we got the better end of the bargain.

falinn merking

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

There’s probably a better plaice for this thread.

I do believe I have netted myself a troll I reeled you right in.

Are Am Eye

Is there women Fishermen?

falinn merking

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Is there women Fishermen?

Don't.:D:D:D

Dr Crayfish

Fishing isn't really sustainable the way things are going. Fish farming seems to cause serious problems too. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just be sensible for once and stop fishing for 5 years or so in all European waters? Let the stocks replenish. Maybe they could pay fishermen some kind of living wage in the meantime to shut them up.

Rumpy Pumpy

Verpiss dich wrote: »

I do believe I have netted myself a troll I reeled you right in.

You’re talking pollocks, pal.

falinn merking

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

You’re talking pollocks, pal.

That was a very shark comment but I will let it pass your having a whale of a time.

Hector Bellend

At least its not the farmers that are whinging

Know a few stuck in it here in the South West.

Absolutely loaded. But a tough life alright.

The EU reforms killed off the smaller operators and small boats that couldn't go out for weeks on end, and put an end to a way of life in many ports. On the other hand, it's happened, and it was the makings of places like Castletownbere with superb facilities where locals spend millions on trawlers and think nothing of it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Is the sole porpoise of this thread to plaice emphasis on the cod the EU has made of the fishing industry? It's a red herring if so, as stocks were doomed anyway.

Roger Hassenforder

This is embarrassing
Im floundering trying to think of a good fish pun.

falinn merking

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

This is embarrassing
Im floundering trying to think of a good fish pun.

You have no talent and I would bet that is reflected in your NET income.:p

Jawgap

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We basically traded a large portion of our rich fishing waters for ag subsidies to the EU. I remember a Norwegian jounalist writing an article in the Indo a few years back, he was puzzled that we didn't have a larger fishing industry considering our potential.

The Irish fleet seems to have remained stagnant for years, no growth, old vessells and outdated systems. Coming up against modern Euro super trawlers.


I know in Britain that the fishing community were one of the strongest proponents for Brexit. Fighting back against illogical quotas, trawlers having to dump dead fish into the sea etc.


A dirty dangerous job, I respect all who do it.

Ah, that crusty old myth.....

200 mile limits only came into being in the late 70s, long after we joined the EEC.

Up until then we only had the old 3 and 12 mile limits.

We never, ever had an oceanic fishing tradition like the Norwegians, Spanish, Dutch, UK etc In fact, the EEC acted as a spur to us developing a decent off-shore capability.

And yes, absolute respect and kudos for anyone working on any vessel, on or off-shore. They definitely earn their money.

Jawgap

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

This is embarrassing
Im floundering trying to think of a good fish pun.

It's not embarrassing.......

......it's brill

.....you need to turbot charge your thinking to get some good puns.

By the way, a lot of skippers work on their own......their sole traders!

humberklog

There's great reading on the Bord Uisce Mhara site. Great breakdown of the history of Irish fishing industry and Irish consumer preferences in the past and to where Ireland is now.
Effectively it shows how Ireland's fishing industry never really exploited its potential up into the 70's. Equipment was dated, exports were poor and local tastes weren't into fish.

I find it funny that most people I hear ranting on with "they took our fish!" In pub conversations are people that wouldn't work on a trawler in a fit.

Roger Hassenforder

Jawgap wrote: »

It's not embarrassing.......

......it's brill

.....you need to turbot charge your thinking to get some good puns.

By the way, a lot of skippers work on their own......their sole traders!

i'd better get my skates on so.

Dr Crayfish

I don't know, people are trawling the ocean floor, wrecking entire ecosystems. What's to admire about these people? We just need to stop eating fish for a while. I love seafood and fish but would gladly leave it alone for a few years to replenish stocks.

falinn merking

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I don't know, people are trawling the ocean floor, wrecking entire ecosystems. What's to admire about these people? We just need to stop eating fish for a while. I love seafood and fish but would gladly leave it alone for a few years to replenish stocks.

Why are you being so crabby?

SEPT 23 1989

There was more votes in farming

Sold down the river

Jawgap

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I don't know, people are trawling the ocean floor, wrecking entire ecosystems. What's to admire about these people? We just need to stop eating fish for a while. I love seafood and fish but would gladly leave it alone for a few years to replenish stocks.

Trawling isn't the only method of fishing.....

btw, catch method and catch area can be found on most fish these days - just go for the line-caught or seined fish from sustainably exploited fisheries - it's still not perfect, but at least is not as destructive as trawling......

......and if you really want to save the planet stop eating beef and other farmed meat (the water resources they consume are horrendous) and stop using plastic.....

......now I'm off for a bot of surf 'n' turf!!!

falinn merking

OP I think this whole subject is just a Red Herring.

Romantic Rose

When I sea how much plastic and rubbish washes up on my local beach, I'd say they are catching more plastic than fish.

I've completely gone off fish recently. Just can't get over the psychology of eating plastic that fish have digested.

It's a pity our world is so polluted!

SEPT 23 1989

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I don't know, people are trawling the ocean floor, wrecking entire ecosystems. What's to admire about these people? We just need to stop eating fish for a while. I love seafood and fish but would gladly leave it alone for a few years to replenish stocks.

Storm force winds huge seas hundreds of miles from shore not many other jobs would have you dancing with death for small money

corner of hells

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I don't know, people are trawling the ocean floor, wrecking entire ecosystems. What's to admire about these people? We just need to stop eating fish for a while. I love seafood and fish but would gladly leave it alone for a few years to replenish stocks.

Storm force winds huge seas hundreds of miles from shore not many other jobs would have you dancing with death for small money

I thought they had a whale of a time while out at sea .

donegaLroad

6 months ago there was a Dutch super trawler fishing off the coast of Donegal while all our boats were docked in Killybegs harbour. It's absurd.

Shenshen

I honestly think that the fishing quota system the EU has implemented is deeply flawed.
I appreciate the conservationist thought behind it, and I would agree that we do need measures to ensure that fishstock and marine life everywhere are managed properly and not damaged or destroyed by overfishing.
However, trying to regulate this by placing a quota on the fish that can be landed does absolutely nothing to address this. Fishermen can't control what goes into their nets, and by the time they've sorted through what does and what doesn't fall within the quota, the fish that were meant to be protected by the quota are dead. So all they do is throw dead fish back overboard. I can imagine how utterly frustrating this must be for the fishermen, and how absurd this is.

I wonder if a maritime equivalent of close season may not be a good answer. We already use it to protect our wild birds and game from being overhunted, so why not our fish as well?

Jawgap

donegaLroad wrote: »

6 months ago there was a Dutch super trawler fishing off the coast of Donegal while all our boats were docked in Killybegs harbour. It's absurd.

Seriously laughable if Killybegs is complaining about super trawlers after the respective sagas of the Veronica and the Atlantic Dawn.

Btw, It's quite possible the Killybegs boats had used up their quota or were managing their days at sea.

Jawgap

Shenshen wrote: »

I honestly think that the fishing quota system the EU has implemented is deeply flawed.
I appreciate the conservationist thought behind it, and I would agree that we do need measures to ensure that fishstock and marine life everywhere are managed properly and not damaged or destroyed by overfishing.
However, trying to regulate this by placing a quota on the fish that can be landed does absolutely nothing to address this. Fishermen can't control what goes into their nets, and by the time they've sorted through what does and what doesn't fall within the quota, the fish that were meant to be protected by the quota are dead. So all they do is throw dead fish back overboard. I can imagine how utterly frustrating this must be for the fishermen, and how absurd this is.

I wonder if a maritime equivalent of close season may not be a good answer. We already use it to protect our wild birds and game from being overhunted, so why not our fish as well?

The system is a mess but unless the fishermen agree to fundamental reforms (such as property-type rights over parts of the ocean) then it will continue.

You're assessment that it's deeply flawed is correct, but it's improving, just not quickly!

Also, with modern technology fishermen can exercise greater control over the species they target - it's not as indiscriminate as was previously the case, especially on larger more modern vessels.

Finally, now everything pretty much gets landed. No discards and quotas are adjusted accordingly.

And there are closed seasons and closed areas to try and protect stocks.

Bigus

Yeah , I have to laugh at they took all our fish,

I'm old enough to remember that You couldn't give fish away in Ireland in the 70's ,

quite possibly a consequence of the Catholic Church forcing Irish mammies to feed over cooked bland,badly, handled (butcher supplied once a week) fish Every Friday to kids who didn't want it.

So fish was something to endure, not seek.

However trips to the continent, re-educated irish people to the joys of imaginatively prepared fresh (an often irish caught) fish.

So bascically the Eu took something we absolutely didn't want at the time , if they even "took" it , because without the EU there'd be no market for "our" fish

Del2005

Romantic Rose wrote: »

When I sea how much plastic and rubbish washes up on my local beach, I'd say they are catching more plastic than fish.

I've completely gone off fish recently. Just can't get over the psychology of eating plastic that fish have digested.

It's a pity our world is so polluted!

I was always more worried about them living in sewage, I don't like eating my meals twice.

downwesht

The fleet has not remained stagnant look at the pelagic fleet in Killybegs!!!Millions of euros worth of vessels that fish 4 to six months of the year.Supertrawlers are not the biggest threat to the Irish fishing industry......Irish fishermen are.....

flatty

I personally would just ban boats over a certain length. It could be patrolled with a tape measure, bring back the smaller trawling industry at the stroke of a pen, conserve fish stocks as the boats couldn't travel all those many miles out to sea, and greatly reduce waste.
The factory ships seem to me to be the great ecological threat, and to be the mainstay of the developing aristocracy in the fishing industry

Shenshen

flatty wrote: »

I personally would just ban boats over a certain length. It could be patrolled with a tape measure, bring back the smaller trawling industry at the stroke of a pen, conserve fish stocks as the boats couldn't travel all those many miles out to sea, and greatly reduce waste.
The factory ships seem to me to be the great ecological threat, and to be the mainstay of the developing aristocracy in the fishing industry

I'm far from an expert, but to the best of my knowledge only fishing close to shore would actually cause severe damage to the species of fish that have their habitat there, plus damage the ones that usually live further out but hatch and spend their early lives closer to shore. That's a very bad idea, really.

If anything, it would be much better to only fish further out, as you'd catch more mature fish, not the young. Also, going by Jawgap's information, modern technology can enable fishermen to target certain species over others, so what you really want are modern, well-equipped boats, not small little nutshells.

RasTa

Not many Irish people involved in the fishing industry anymore. Crew are all eastern euros

Dravokivich

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Fishing isn't really sustainable the way things are going. Fish farming seems to cause serious problems too. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just be sensible for once and stop fishing for 5 years or so in all European waters? Let the stocks replenish. Maybe they could pay fishermen some kind of living wage in the meantime to shut them up.

It's not just fishermen in the industry.

downwesht

If the SFPA enforced the quality rules there would be no need for quantity rules.The overall quality of fish being landed is poor as a result of poor handling......BIM are a joke organisation that should be disbanded....you have a board member that personally handles foreign boats in Irish ports!!!!FACT..... only in Ireland!!!

Jawgap

flatty wrote: »

I personally would just ban boats over a certain length. It could be patrolled with a tape measure, bring back the smaller trawling industry at the stroke of a pen, conserve fish stocks as the boats couldn't travel all those many miles out to sea, and greatly reduce waste.
The factory ships seem to me to be the great ecological threat, and to be the mainstay of the developing aristocracy in the fishing industry

Size isn't everything

A medium sized boat with powerful engines, the latest sonar, using drone technology etc is a much more efficient vessel than a larger one.

You need to limit where fishers can fish, limit engine hp, limit the days at sea and have quotas to even try and keep up with the technological developments that the industry regularly brings forward.

Personally, I reckon if we ate more fish, there'd be more sustainable fishing!! Because we'd be more informed consumers which would mean we'd place more of a premium on quality which would encourage fishers to look after their catch better, giving them a higher margin which means less going after quantity and more going after quality........but I'd be pessimistic about that virtuous circle ever kicking off!

somefeen

Jawgap wrote: »

Size isn't everything

A medium sized boat with powerful engines, the latest sonar, using drone technology etc is a much more efficient vessel than a larger one.

You need to limit where fishers can fish, limit engine hp, limit the days at sea and have quotas to even try and keep up with the technological developments that the industry regularly brings forward.

Personally, I reckon if we ate more fish, there'd be more sustainable fishing!! Because we'd be more informed consumers which would mean we'd place more of a premium on quality which would encourage fishers to look after their catch better, giving them a higher margin which means less going after quantity and more going after quality........but I'd be pessimistic about that virtuous circle ever kicking off!

Your dead right and BIM are pushing that for the last few years.
I think we can have a sustainable fishing industry but the whole thing needs a drastic overhaul. The regulations are outdated and overly complex and the Irish industry doesn't fit a modern economy. When you look at the costs of operating here, we'd suit a smaller industry focused on selling a processed high quality product instead.
Our own labour market doesn't even suit what we have now. Selling a better product would give us more scientific and marketing based jobs. We've a well educated workforce so we should capitalise on that.

Having said that some fishing is still very sustainable as it is.

gctest50

The Australian government banned the second largest super trawler :

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-13/super-trawler-legislation-passes-house-of-reps/4260142?pfmredir=sm

it ended up here and got a little bonus :

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/worlds-second-largest-supertrawler-enters-irish-waters-30058458.html


Its crew of 50 normally conducts round-the-clock fishing operations in a region for six to eight weeks before landing its processed catch.

Capt'n Midnight

Bottom line is that the small guy has no clout. Big business can buy past them. One supertrawler can replace many smaller family boats. In the UK one Dutch boat has 23% of the quota , UK based inshore fishermen only get 4%. Just in case anyone thinks politicians care about local fishermen.

And even when no longer here they can still hoover up money :mad:
Fishing rights: ‘Big corporations win out, because they have clout’

The former owners of Atlantic Dawn, which once was Ireland’s biggest-ever trawler, stand to gain a bounty of at least €135 million from a series of decisions by successive governments about the rules pertaining to the Irish fleet.

Jawgap

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Bottom line is that the small guy has no clout. Big business can buy past them. One supertrawler can replace many smaller family boats. In the UK one Dutch boat has 23% of the quota , UK based inshore fishermen only get 4%. Just in case anyone thinks politicians care about local fishermen.

And even when no longer here they can still hoover up money :mad:
Fishing rights: ‘Big corporations win out, because they have clout’

Supertrawlers are not competing against single-deckers......and the supertrawlers don't come inshore.....they don't even fish offshore.....they fish off the continental shelf, in the mid-ocean.

.....and you seem to be overlooking the fact that there have been significant purchases of French trawlers (with associated French quota) by Irish individuals.

And the largest impediment to reforming fishery controls and fisheries management is fishermen, not politicians.

arctictree

I know two brothers fishing in a port near me. One owns a massive trawler and spends his time paying massive oil bills and catching millions of fish. The other takes anglers out for a days wreck fishing on his 10 man boat. He says they both earn about the same but his brother has massive machinery debts etc....The tourism is really the way to go and much more sustainable.