People who were against stopping Islamic State?

TerrorFirmer

I hardly think that qualifies as tinfoil hat stuff.

The US attempts to train a 'moderate' rebel army was a total disaster. Tons of weapons earmarked for 'moderate' groups ended up in the hands of Islamic State.

Russian air power was the game changer. I'm no fan of Putin but without that intervention the whole region would be in an unimaginably worse mess right now.

Odhinn

Richard Hillman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/939647578651746306

So ISIS have been defeated in Iraq. There is still a bit to go in Syria but Iraq has been saved. From our point of view, there were people, probable conspirators, that were campaigning for the NATO nations to not interfere with ISIS taking over the Middle East.

Should they be treated as facilitators and arrested? Or were they just contrarians that should be ignored?

2/10 for effort. Am unimpressed.

Ralf and Florian

server down wrote: »

Do you don’t think that Saudi Arabia funds Islamic radicalism and ISIS and other radicals?

Interesting. And well put.

I didn't say I didn't. Among the laughable aspects of your post was the labeling of Assad and Putin as "heroes".

bodice ripper

pitifulgod wrote: »

How's your life of Mccarthyism going?

Good, but it needs more Mccarthy...

server down

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I hardly think that qualifies as tinfoil hat stuff.

The US attempts to train a 'moderate' rebel army was a total disaster. Tons of weapons earmarked for 'moderate' groups ended up in the hands of Islamic State.

Some say that the moderate army itself was a myth. I’m unsure.

Russian air power was the game changer. I'm no fan of Putin but without that intervention the whole region would be in an unimaginably worse mess right now.

Definitely.

server down

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

I didn't say I didn't. Among the laughable aspects of your post was the labeling of Assad and Putin as "heroes".

It wasn’t my post and I wouldn’t 100% agree with it either. However a picture of a tin foil hat is no kind of argument fir an adult.

If you can’t keep up with names on an internet discussion board it’s no wonder the details of complex wars elude you.


Maybe we should move this from AH?

archer22

Ordinary people in Europe owe a debt of gratitude to the Syrian Arab army, Hezbollah and the Russian Air force.

They stiffed a hell of a lot of savages that otherwise would have ended up rampaging on the streets and airports of Europe

Irish Praetorian

I'm fascinated to see people talking with such confidence about the wartime logistics of both the Coalition and Russian forces in Syria (and Iraq) these days - so far some intense searching has revealed to only broad generalities to me, so if anyone wants to hook me up with some more concrete statistics by all means feel free to do so.

As for the efficacy of the various sides, I suspect this is more down to peoples political affiliations rather than any detailed understanding of the progress of the war. I can't help but notice that there seems to be a cohort fawning over every explosion arising from a Russian bomb with the casualties invariably dubbed terrorists, whereas the victims of NATO bombs are painted as civilians or innocent bystanders. The same rule appears to apply to weapons; a terrorist packing an AKM or an RPK is just a terrorist, whereas if they have a looted M4 Carbine they are an 'American backed' terrorist. Honestly the swirling of disinformation and bias in these debates is shocking.

Dohnjoe

FTA69 wrote: »

NATO my hole. The people who did the heavy lifting against ISIS were Assad's Syrian Army (backed by Hezbollah)... people designated a terrorist organisation in Europe and America.

Assad's army had also been doing "heavy lifting" against his own people.

If you honestly think ISIS's defeat is some poster advertisement for western intervention you're off your nut. The only reason they came about in the first place is because America destroyed Iraq and turned it into a lawless sh*thole.

Indeed the war in Iraq was a precursor, but the Syrian conflict was the main factor.

endacl

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Who cares? They are communists

Communists with big balls. Fair play to the big-balled Kurds.

Zebra3

America rejoices at the defeat of Islamic extremists who were armed to the teeth with American weapons and vehicles.

Dohnjoe

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Russian air power was the game changer. I'm no fan of Putin but without that intervention the whole region would be in an unimaginably worse mess right now.

A large coalition of countries have been bombing ISIS for years.

Russian joined fairly late in the conflict, with a far more limited aerial campaign and they targeted other groups, not just ISIS (in a bid to support Assad). They often used unguided munitions and had limited effect

On a side note, Assad was overwhelmingly isolated and on very weak footing (this was before ISIS arrived on the scene) however the Russians are credited with throwing him a crucial lifeline, supporting him militarily and logistically as well as consistently obstructing multiple UN resolutions

Dohnjoe

Zebra3 wrote: »

America rejoices at the defeat of Islamic extremists who were armed to the teeth with American weapons and vehicles.

ISIS took Iraqi armaments and vehicles (e.g. US supplied Humvees) when they invaded large swathes of the country. They also helped themselves to other captured weaponry or sourced it from defectors from the (hundreds) of other groups

They also equip AK47's it doesn't mean they were "armed by the Russians"

end of the road

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Who cares? They are communists

have you got evidence for that claim? or is it more of your usual "anyone who doesn't agree with me is a" "communist" nonsense?
i would suggest that you have a lot more in common with "communists" then you would think.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The SNP seemed to be against it


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/syria-air-strikes-snps-54-mps-to-vote-against-bombing-isis-a6756326.html

And you know full well there were plenty of people on board's who were arguing against stopping them. Why?

there were no people on boards arguing against stopping isis. this is made up nonsense.

arayess

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Assad's army had also been doing "heavy lifting" against his own people.



Indeed the war in Iraq was a precursor, but the Syrian conflict was the main factor.

his own people...???
the vast majority of syrians are with assad..
he mighnt be the "best" leader but they chose to stand with him instead of what was on offer or the choice of foreign puppets.
that is telling as fcuk.

I'm Lebanese...and i've family and friends in Lebanon and Syria....the crap you are fed in the media is lies or at best A lazy synopsis ....

Dohnjoe

arayess wrote: »

his own people...???
the vast majority of syrians are with assad..

He has never been elected in a free/fair election, he was handed power by his father

He represents the Alawite sect, Sunni's are the majority in the country

Despite all that, he was "relatively" popular for a dictator (even though the country has some of the worst human rights records in the world)

It was his actions in response to the uprising that drew the response it did from the region and the world

he mighnt be the "best" leader but they chose to stand with him

They literally had no choice. It's not like they could vote for someone else (opposition parties outlawed) or hold popular protest (we know what happened with that)

I'm Lebanese...and i've family and friends in Lebanon and Syria....the crap you are fed in the media is lies or at best A lazy synopsis ....

Assad is supported by Iran, Lebanon and Russia. Am very familiar with propaganda on the issue

I've family and friends who have biased views - which is why I get my news from a variety of proper sources, freelance journalists, multiple outlets, reporters on the ground and so on

The counter-story is always the same - "it's a conspiracy by the Western media" - no, it's just a very, very complex brutal situation. The responsibility of it starts with the country's leader. He was no victim in any of this.

arayess

Dohnjoe wrote: »

He has never been elected in a free/fair election, he was handed power by his father

it doesn;'t matter
yes he was handed power by his father.
and he wasn't the chosen one - the chosen one died .
but he stepped up when he was challenged ..like a true leader.
he has won the respect of most Syrians and others for that
and he mighnt be elected in the way people in the west view democracy but he is the most popular leader in this battle
and I stand for him ...he offers a muslim state that is still secular and free for all.
all that standing for womens rights etc... assad stands for that.

people in the west are lead astray by their media.
some of the "enemies" in the middle east are more liberal and free than the west allies...

but people are stupid and believe the narrative...

Dohnjoe wrote: »

He represents the Alawite sect, Sunni's are the majority in the country

does that matter...he is alawite...the world knows this.. it is not new
we have known it decades ago...it matters sweet fcuk all

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Despite all that, he was "relatively" popular for a dictator (even though the country has some of the worst human rights records in the world)

It was his actions in response to the uprising that drew the response it did from the region and the world

fcuk that,.., he has a secret police...big deal ...who doesn't. he did a lot of the Americans dirty work post 9/11.....cos they couldn't...who cares..

there was a rebellion financed by foreign actors and he defended himself
please tell me how Assad should have reacted....? how would you react?
please tell me...

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Assad is supported by Iran, Lebanon and Russia. Am very familiar with propaganda on the issue

are you familiar with propaganda...as an irish citizen with one foot in ireland and one foot in the middle east..
I can say that if you read irish or uk media you are being fed a load of ****e.
let me say this...Putin is a god among men..
I salute him.
as an irish person - how do you free about Christians being slaughtered in the middle east???..Hezbollah and the Syrians saved them as best they could....where were the so called christian west???....fcuk that

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I've family and friends who have biased views - which is why I get my news from a variety of proper sources, freelance journalists, multiple outlets, reporters on the ground and so on

well i am in the region at least once a year./...family , friends , relatives...
you believe what you want.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The counter-story is always the same - "it's a conspiracy by the Western media" - no, it's just a very, very complex brutal situation. The responsibility of it starts with the country's leader. He was no victim in any of this.

**** that ****. I've been in Syria - it was fine.
this was a foreign funded uprising but a minority
funded by the Saudis for a pipelines

as conor would say "you know nothing"...

FTA69

arayess wrote: »

fcuk that,.., he has a secret police...big deal ...who doesn't. he did a lot of the Americans dirty work post 9/11.....cos they couldn't...who cares..

You might find them a "big deal" if they were calling around to your gaff to beat the f*ck out of you or worse for fairly innocuous political activity.

Assad is probably the least worst option in Syria but let's not cod ourselves that he's a decent chap.

Richard Hillman

end of the road wrote: »

have you got evidence for that claim? or is it more of your usual "anyone who doesn't agree with me is a" "communist" nonsense?
i would suggest that you have a lot more in common with "communists" then you would think.



there were no people on boards arguing against stopping isis. this is made up nonsense.

There were many people who were against intervention by Russia and the U.S, knowing full well that no intervention would have led to the fall of the regime and an I.S victory.

circadian

Kurds are commies now?

arayess

FTA69 wrote: »

You might find them a "big deal" if they were calling around to your gaff to beat the f*ck out of you or worse for fairly innocuous political activity.

Assad is probably the least worst option in Syria but let's not cod ourselves that he's a decent chap.

i have met him and he is a top guy ..really....
assad pre war was prety relaxed

but yes....the secret police....
I mean if the FBI call to your house.. we prob wont see you again.
it is how it is...

if you against putin and taking soros money...why would they allow it...makes no sense

we can live with assad - and btw he is more popular now than ever...he is real leader.. - **** me I think he is lion now...putin esque lion...
think nato and the rest tried to fcuk him and he stood like a fcukin lion....

some of my extended family are Syrian and I know...you in the west do not

Richard Hillman

circadian wrote: »

Kurds are commies now?

Very much so. That's why the "anti-fascists" are missing themselves over them

Richard Hillman

FTA69 wrote: »

You might find them a "big deal" if they were calling around to your gaff to beat the f*ck out of you or worse for fairly innocuous political activity.

You get that now in this part of the world if you say anything negative about "diversity". Flip from the socialist play book and you'll be getting a knock on the door or excluded from work.

server down

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There were many people who were against intervention by Russia and the U.S, knowing full well that no intervention would have led to the fall of the regime and an I.S victory.

Your history is upside down. The pro US posters on here were hoping for the fall of the regime.

FTA69

Richard Hillman wrote: »

You get that now in this part of the world if you say anything negative about "diversity". Flip from the socialist play book and you'll be getting a knock on the door or excluded from work.

That's right. You whinging about "PC gone mad" is exactly the same as the Mukhabarrat arresting and torturing people. Honest to Jesus, I don't know why I even bother with internet discussion forums anymore, headbangers on all sides.

circadian

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Very much so. That's why the "anti-fascists" are missing themselves over them

Aye, dead on.

FTA69

arayess wrote: »

i have met him and he is a top guy ..really....
assad pre war was prety relaxed

but yes....the secret police....
I mean if the FBI call to your house.. we prob wont see you again.
it is how it is...

if you against putin and taking soros money...why would they allow it...makes no sense

we can live with assad - and btw he is more popular now than ever...he is real leader.. - **** me I think he is lion now...putin esque lion...
think nato and the rest tried to fcuk him and he stood like a fcukin lion....

some of my extended family are Syrian and I know...you in the west do not

What's your point exactly about the Americans committing torture? I don't agree with that either and I think the FBI are bastards. It isn't the case hat everyone who thinks Assad is a bit iffy is aUtomatically pro-imperialism.

Is that your sole justification for the Mukhabarrat committing torture and arresting anybody and everybody who isn't in line with the regime? The Americans do it too? Sure it must be grand so they're doing it.

And spare me the nonsense about your family in Syria, I know loads of Syrians over here that think he's a complete sh*t, we can all point to other people's opinions.

ted1

Richard Hillman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/939647578651746306

So ISIS have been defeated in Iraq. There is still a bit to go in Syria but Iraq has been saved. From our point of view, there were people, probable conspirators, that were campaigning for the NATO nations to not interfere with ISIS taking over the Middle East.

Should they be treated as facilitators and arrested? Or were they just contrarians that should be ignored?

ISIS were born because of the West’s intervention. It’s the West’s business to resolve the issue , they would have been better off leaving Saddam and Gadaffi alone. The 911 terrorists were from Saudi , the US have agreed to sell them 100bn worth of weapons

Gyalist

The most surreal news of the last few days was the British, French and U.S. claiming the credit for the defeat of ISIS.

end of the road

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Very much so. That's why the "anti-fascists" are missing themselves over them

yeah, great. have you got proof of that claim like i asked?
actually don't bother, we know it's more made up nonsense.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

You get that now in this part of the world if you say anything negative about "diversity". Flip from the socialist play book and you'll be getting a knock on the door or excluded from work.

can you give me examples of people who were arrested, made to disappear, or murdered by the police, for saying something negative about diversity?