84/a connects to Luas .... 7 years later

xper

I am delighted to see that Dublins Bus have announced completion of the Network Direct changes:

Route 84/a via Cherrywood
Published on Friday, December 01, 2017

Dublin Bus wishes to inform customers of the following changes on Route 84a due to new road layout;

Route 84a will now interchange with the Luas at Brides Glen Luas Stop.
Route 84a will also serve Cherrywood Industrial Park.
Customers can also get updates on Facebook, follow us on Twitter @dublinbusnews or call our customer service line on (01) 8734222, lines open from 08:30 - 18:00hrs (Monday to Saturday excluding bank holidays).

Perhaps tell all the drivers about the change. On my three trips on the 84 since this news item, the bus only actually visited the Bride's Glen stop once. One turned left at the new Wyatville Road junction into the Industrial Park and turned around at the first mini-roundabout and the other made a rather spectacular u-turn at the lights themselves.

Perhaps tell the communications staff that "84/a" means routes 84 and 84a while you're at it

Pity it took the actual physical removal of a roundabout to force this obvious transport interconnection onto the powers that be rather than the joke that was played on customers for the last seven years of dropping you off a windswept 600m away from the Luas.

AlekSmart

xper wrote: »

I am delighted to see that Dublins Bus have announced completion of the Network Direct changes:


Perhaps tell all the drivers about the change. On my three trips on the 84 since this news item, the bus only actually visited the Bride's Glen stop once. One turned left at the new Wyatville Road junction into the Industrial Park and turned around at the first mini-roundabout and the other made a rather spectacular u-turn at the lights themselves.

Perhaps tell the communications staff that "84/a" means routes 84 and 84a while you're at it

Pity it took the actual physical removal of a roundabout to force this obvious transport interconnection onto the powers that be rather than the joke that was played on customers for the last seven years of dropping you off a windswept 600m away from the Luas.

The "Communications Staff" would appear to be briefed already,but not for the first time,is there a problem with the actual point-of-use material.

Whilst the overall notice refers to the Route 84/a,the actual journeys effected are the "a's",so it is quite possible your Busdrivers may have been operating "as-per-board",ie correctly.

Route 84/a via Cherrywood
Published on Friday, December 01, 2017

Dublin Bus wishes to inform customers of the following changes on Route 84a due to new road layout;

* Route 84a will now interchange with the Luas at Brides Glen Luas Stop.
* Route 84a will also serve Cherrywood Industrial Park.

Notwithstanding the fact that the 84 route has substantial potential for growth,which for some odd reason remains constantly ignored,it appears that the 84,as it stands,will not interact with the LUAS at Brides Glen.

There is also the very basic issue of multi-modal interchange,which we appear largely incapable of implementing in Ireland.
Whereas,in other juristictions,large scale Rail/Bus termini or busy halts,will be predesigned with ease-of-transfer as the prime focus,we somehow or other,manage to keep the various modes as far apart as we think will be tolerated.
One only has to look at our highest profile mode transfer opportunity,the Red Cow Interchange,to be presented with the truly befuddled locations of City Bus route stops vis a vis,the LUAS platforms....and this in a greenfield,designed from scratch location.

Therefore,I remain unsurprised that such a rural and unspoilt location as Brides Glen,recieves the same treatment.....:rolleyes:

Isambard

seems quite clear to me the notice refers to the 84a only. I'm assuming the "/" in the heading is a typo, if they meant 84 and 84a they have put 84/84a surely.

devnull

This is not the first time that such article on the Dublin Bus website has either been vague, unclear or confusing to be honest so it's not like it's a one off.

To be fair though, as seen by the recent LUAS announcement and the "services will no longer stop at Stephens Green" masterpiece, Dublin Bus are not the only ones!

xper

The two routes share a single timetable referred to as 84/a. They both serve Cherrywood on the same routing so the road layout change impacts both in the same way and, as I said, one 84 journey I was on did go up to the Luas stop. So its clearly supposed to be both routes changing, its just sloppy implementation and communication.

Stephen15

It would be far more efficent if the 84/a terminated at the Luas stop rather than going back out on the n11 and continuing to Blackrock. I'm sure frequency could also be improved perhaps the 84a shorts wouldn't have to be there and all buses could operate to Newcastle every half hour rather than only every hour as currently.

xper

Stephen15 wrote: »

It would be far more efficent if the 84/a terminated at the Luas stop rather than going back out on the n11 and continuing to Blackrock. I'm sure frequency could also be improved perhaps the 84a shorts wouldn't have to be there and all buses could operate to Newcastle every half hour rather than only every hour as currently.

Ah look at you with your common sense, you'll get nowhere in politics!

Newcastle <-> Cherrywood every half hour was the original Network Direct proposal for the 84. Then Simon Harris stuck his oar in on behalf of his student pals in Greystones and it was fudged to an hourly service to UCD. Then a couple of years later, when the 45 route was axed, the 84 was shifted to Blackrock as a replacement. All the while, maintaining the pretence that diverting off the N11 and looping around the Cherrywood roundabout was interconnecting with Luas. Nonsense carry on.

XPS_Zero

The entire set up around Cherrywood has always annoyed the living hell out of me for several reasons:

• As the OP says only some of the obvious services that should go to the stop actually go

• They drop you off on the wrong bloody side of the street (look at it on google maps if you don't know the area you'll see what I'm saying). If you are going in the CC direction instead of dropping you off on the left, which is an easy walk to the gym or luas stop where most people would be going, they zoom right past it (that stop is on the way to the bray direction) and go around the round about, back down the road, then dump you on the other side of the f---g road! Now if you look at that on a map it is mere METERS from the other bus stop the 145 stops at so you could walk it in less than 3 minutes, so the "Cherrywood" stop is not much of a help going in that direction because you end up burning time crossing a dual carriageway and walking most of the same distance anyway!

• When they put the new terminus beside the Luas stop (a major stop) they included no timers, and they didn't bother to put timers at the Wyatteville road stop either, now that stop is possibly the most uncomfortable stop in the entire city. It's the exact kind of stop you'd wanna know how long you'll be waiting at. It's right at the top of a hill, there is always this ice cold wind blowing down it, there is nowhere to sit, and it's right beside a cycle track. Now they probably assume we all have smartphones with our own links but I'm a poor student and I don't! I needs my free wifi when I'm out of the house and I use skype and iphone chat to talk to people!

• Then I heard they were making changes to this stop and - of course - of f----g COURSE a certain Dun Laoghaire TD who would object to the ending of world hunger saying it wasn't good enough, was blocking it and protesting it...

solidasarock

For me I am finding it better to still just get off at Loughlinstown bridge and walk to Cherrywood luas stop though that apartment estate then to take the bus all the way to Bride's Glen.

Plus the 84a in the morning is just random when it shows up in Bray. Basically a 20 minute window of "will it show up?" from 7:35 to 7:55" every morning.

Zero consistency.

XPS_Zero

The 84 has never been a reliable service. Guys who were in school with me who lived in Greystones used to have to get up an hour earlier than me just to deal with the oddness of the 84, it might show up in 10 minutes or maybe 45

It's always been a "will it wont it" service and network direct didn't really help then of course they changed it's final destination about 20 times. I've memories as a kid of waiting for an 84, I've no particular memories of waiting for any other bus, but my memory of the 84 is ALL "COLD COLD COLD - (moves just to generate heat - takes hands off book puts book under arm shoves hands in pockets cos they're out in the cold too long) - COLD COLD COLD WHEN WILL THIS F

---

G BUS ARRIVE JESUS F----G CHRIST IT'S BEEN LIKE AN HOUR WHERE IS THIS F----G BUS!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!"...every. single. time.

Stephen15

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The 84 has never been a reliable service. Guys who were in school with me who lived in Greystones used to have to get up an hour earlier than me just to deal with the oddness of the 84, it might show up in 10 minutes or maybe 45

It's always been a "will it wont it" service and network direct didn't really help then of course they changed it's final destination about 20 times. I've memories as a kid of waiting for an 84, I've no particular memories of waiting for any other bus, but my memory of the 84 is ALL "COLD COLD COLD - (moves just to generate heat - takes hands off book puts book under arm shoves hands in pockets cos they're out in the cold too long) - COLD COLD COLD WHEN WILL THIS F

---

G BUS ARRIVE JESUS F----G CHRIST IT'S BEEN LIKE AN HOUR WHERE IS THIS F----G BUS!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!"...every. single. time.

I agree it is a very unreliable service it always has been and still is but now with Real Time Info at least you can wait in the comfort of your own home and not at freezing cold bus stop.

At least the 84 has an unfrequent timetable you could be waiting over an hour for the old 45 which was timetabled to come every 15 mins.

XPS_Zero

Stephen15 wrote: »

I agree it is a very unreliable service it always has been and still is but now with Real Time Info at least you can wait in the comfort of your own home and not at freezing cold bus stop.

At least the 84 has an unfrequent timetable you could be waiting over an hour for the old 45 which was timetabled to come every 15 mins.

Don't get me wrong DB has improved VASTLY but there are still a lot of issues. Those experiences with the 84 (and the bottleneck through Bray at rush hour where to go from Shankill area to Bray town hall at rush hour could take you 30-40 minutes) made me loathe buses so I've always preferred trains, maybe living near a DART line spoiled me in that regard but I can make it to Newry (DART time included) faster than I can make it to Lucan from the same starting point. I think we allowed far too many sprawling winding estates in this country and went too far out instead of up so needed buses not trams and metros which would be more efficient.

Real Time has improved things at least, as you say. At least there is not the torture of "will it be 10 or an hour" anymore

RayM

I was on an 84 yesterday, for the first time in a few years. I just happened to be in Blackrock, so I thought I'd try it instead of the Dart. It arrived around 10 minutes late and continued to get caught up in heavy afternoon traffic in Deansgrange, Cabinteely, etc. And then there was the usual gridlock at little Bray. When we finally reached Bray, the driver announced that, unless anyone had any objections, he would be bypassing the Dart station and continuing up the main street, which saved a bit of time. And then, when we were between Greystones and Kilcoole, he transferred us onto another 84 which happened to be following (I think there are a few untimetabled extras between Bray and Newcastle in the afternoons during the school term), so that he could do a u-turn and try and get back on schedule.

All in all, it took me nearly an hour and a half to get home. In the car, it would have been a 25 minute drive. Between Blackrock and Loughlinstown, there were fewer than 10 passengers altogether. With the bus and Luas stops right beside each other now, Brides Glen would be a perfect terminus for the 84. I hope, when Dublin Bus loses the 184 and 185, they'll be able to put the extra resources into turning the 84 into a more reliable and frequent route.

xper

RayM wrote: »

.... When we finally reached Bray, the driver announced that, unless anyone had any objections, he would be bypassing the Dart station and continuing up the main street, which saved a bit of time. ...

I'd say the people waiting on him at Bray DART station (and there are always some) would have objected. But hey, they're just customers, **** 'em.

Charles Babbage

xper wrote: »

I'd say the people waiting on him at Bray DART station (and there are always some) would have objected. But hey, they're just customers, **** 'em.

Perhaps the 84 that was obviously following served that stop.

bebeman

Stephen15 wrote: »

At least the 84 has an unfrequent timetable you could be waiting over an hour for the old 45 which was timetabled to come every 15 mins.

When you get one simple fact wrong, it make its difficult to believe the rest of your post.
The 45 was a 20 minute service, not 15.

bebeman

xper wrote: »

I'd say the people waiting on him at Bray DART station (and there are always some) would have objected. But hey, they're just customers, **** 'em.

Dont let ignorance of how thing work get in the way of getting a dig in on DB.

Here is what happens when the 84 skips the train station, the inspector who is down at bray train station tell the people waiting for a 84 to get on the 184 that is leaving the station now and it will take them up to bray main street where they can get the 84 they where waiting for, if you where a regular user your would know this.

L1011

bebeman wrote: »

Dont let ignorance of how thing work get in the way of getting a dig in on DB.

Here is what happens when the 84 skips the train station, the inspector who is down at bray train station tell the people waiting for a 84 to get on the 184 that is leaving the station now and it will take them up to bray main street where they can get the 84 they where waiting for, if you where a regular user your would know this.

The ticketing system doesn't allow for this. Rather huge issue.

Integration of systems is vastly more important than giving DB the ability to make realistically non-beneficial reroutes

Stephen15

bebeman wrote: »

When you get one simple fact wrong, it make its difficult to believe the rest of your post.
The 45 was a 20 minute service, not 15.

Apologies I forgot that. To be fair it was about 10 years ago now that the 45 was operating on that timetable so it's easy to forget since it was that long ago.

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

The ticketing system doesn't allow for this. Rather huge issue.

Integration of systems is vastly more important than giving DB the ability to make realistically non-beneficial reroutes

Dont let ignorance of how thing work get in the way of getting a dig in on DB.
Where did it state that they paid or scanned a LEAP card to get from bray station to bray main street?

L1011

Drivers or stand staff ordering passengers to skip paying until another bus may or may not turn is indefensibly bad and never justifies altering routes

StreetLight

L1011 wrote: »

Drivers or stand staff ordering passengers to skip paying until another bus may or may not turn is indefensibly bad and never justifies altering routes

I can't see the passengers, who are the most important element here, complaining about it.

A bit of initiative and efficiency and you're knocking it because it's Dublin Bus.

L1011

StreetLight wrote: »

I can't see the passengers, who are the most important element here, complaining about it.

A bit of initiative and efficiency and you're knocking it because it's Dublin Bus.

Removing single-change connections is the opposite of efficiency, and its effectively initiative to make life easier for drivers alone.

I'd knock it no matter what bus company was doing it.

StreetLight

L1011 wrote: »

Removing single-change connections is the opposite of efficiency, and its effectively initiative to make life easier for drivers alone.

I'd knock it no matter what bus company was doing it.

You'd better get used to single-change connections, because that's what the upcoming BusConnects project is all about.

You're so busy sticking the knife in the driver you would subject a bus-full of passengers on an unnecessary, time-wasting, fuel-wasting trip in and out of Bray Station.

Stephen15

StreetLight wrote: »

You'd better get used to single-change connections, because that's what the upcoming BusConnects project is all about.

You're so busy sticking the knife in the driver you would subject a bus-full of passengers on an unnecessary, time-wasting, fuel-wasting trip in and out of Bray Station.

Single change connections where it's logical and makes sense such as when going from one side of the city to another not just when going 800m from Bray DART station to Bray Main Street.

That being said I do think the 84 should stop serving the DART station in Bray it's a needless diversion that's there so drivers can be changed. If the 145 can bypass The Dart Station I don't see why the 84 can't also.

L1011

StreetLight wrote: »

You'd better get used to single-change connections, because that's what the upcoming BusConnects project is all about.

You're so busy sticking the knife in the driver you would subject a bus-full of passengers on an unnecessary, time-wasting, fuel-wasting trip in and out of Bray Station.

Single change connections are what I'm supporting here - the unauthorized route alteration is adding an extra

Hugh Jampton

Stephen15 wrote: »

Single change connections where it's logical and makes sense such as when going from one side of the city to another not just when going 800m from Bray DART station to Bray Main Street.

That being said I do think the 84 should stop serving the DART station in Bray it's a needless diversion that's there so drivers can be changed. If the 145 can bypass The Dart Station I don't see why the 84 can't also.

Fine. Let’s crack on and extend the Luas to the Dart to facilitate North Wicklow to Sandyford and Dundrum commuters then.


Seriously though, losing connectivity to Bray Station is crazy. Why are Rail/Bus connections so disregarded?

Stephen15

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

Fine. Let’s crack on and extend the Luas to the Dart to facilitate North Wicklow to Sandyford and Dundrum commuters then.


Seriously though, losing connectivity to Bray Station is crazy. Why are Rail/Bus connections so disregarded?

The bus that serve Bray Station are a token gesture that suits DB and it's drivers. The most frequent bus that serves Bray the 145 dosen't even serve the station. The buses that do serve Bray station atm are all infrequent and unreliable.

A suggestion I would make instead of a Luas to Bray would be turning the 145 into a BRT between the CC and Bray station and the Ballywaltrim section could be replaced by a high frequency shuttle bus between Ballywaltrim and the station.

Hugh Jampton

Stephen15 wrote: »

The bus that serve Bray Station are a token gesture that suits DB and it's drivers. The most frequent bus that serves Bray the 145 dosen't even serve the station. The buses that do serve Bray station atm are all infrequent and unreliable.

A suggestion I would make instead of a Luas to Bray would be turning the 145 into a BRT between the CC and Bray station and the Ballywaltrim section could be replaced by a high frequency shuttle bus between Ballywaltrim and the station.

That suggestion ignores connections between North Wicklow and Sandyford and Dundrum. Can’t see any benefit.

Stephen15

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

That suggestion ignores connections between North Wicklow and Sandyford and Dundrum. Can’t see any benefit.

A decent bus connection would be cheaper.

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

Drivers or stand staff ordering passengers to skip paying until another bus may or may not turn is indefensibly bad and never justifies altering routes

May or may not turn up? What are you on about, this would have been organised by the inspector at Bray station, they would have been in radio contact with the 84

bebeman

Stephen15 wrote: »

Single change connections where it's logical and makes sense such as when going from one side of the city to another not just when going 800m from Bray DART station to Bray Main Street.

That being said I do think the 84 should stop serving the DART station in Bray it's a needless diversion that's there so drivers can be changed. If the 145 can bypass The Dart Station I don't see why the 84 can't also.

I can tell you dont have a clue about Bray and DB routes out there!
That 800m from train station up to the church could take 20-30 minutes if Bray is in a bad way, which is very frequent.
Would you like the 45A to skip the Train station as well?
The 84 goes down to the station to pick up passengers who have got of the DART which terminates in Bray and then brings them on to greystones/kilcoole/newcastle.

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

Single change connections are what I'm supporting here - the unauthorized route alteration is adding an extra

Stick to posting about Maynooth, you clearly know nothing about Bray and DB.

bebeman

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

Seriously though, losing connectivity to Bray Station is crazy. Why are Rail/Bus connections so disregarded?

Its bad now that DB do it, but will be wonderful next year when Go Ahead operate these routes.

devnull

bebeman wrote: »

Stick to posting about Maynooth, you clearly know nothing about Bray and DB.

Civility to other members is not just a desirable trait here, it is a pre-requisite to you being allowed to post.

- Moderator

L1011

bebeman wrote: »

May or may not turn up? What are you on about, this would have been organised by the inspector at Bray station, they would have been in radio contact with the 84

So will they hold the 84, delaying its pax and blocking a stop / road as applicable if it's running ahead then?

This kind of 'flexibility' is anti-passenger and they are who a bus firm operate for. Unauthorised route changes are not justifiable

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

So will they hold the 84, delaying its pax and blocking a stop / road as applicable if it's running ahead then?

This kind of 'flexibility' is anti-passenger and they are who a bus firm operate for. Unauthorised route changes are not justifiable

There is a distinct anti DB bias by some posters here, posting completely false/uninformed rants, anyone who uses the 84 or DB out in Bray can see this, ultimately this is beneficial to DB

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

So will they hold the 84, delaying its pax and blocking a stop / road as applicable if it's running ahead then?

This kind of 'flexibility' is anti-passenger and they are who a bus firm operate for. Unauthorised route changes are not justifiable

Do you even use the 84?

L1011

bebeman wrote: »

anyone who uses the 84 or DB out in Bray can see this, ultimately this is beneficial to DB

Beneficial to DB is sod all use to the inconvenienced passengers and has been my entire point all along!

DB will be gone completely in a decade if this attitude continues

Stephen15

bebeman wrote: »

I can tell you dont have a clue about Bray and DB routes out there!
That 800m from train station up to the church could take 20-30 minutes if Bray is in a bad way, which is very frequent.
Would you like the 45A to skip the Train station as well?
The 84 goes down to the station to pick up passengers who have got of the DART which terminates in Bray and then brings them on to greystones/kilcoole/newcastle.

So you're even admitting that those passengers getting off the DART at Bray would be quicker to walk up to The Main St. than get a bus.

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

Beneficial to DB is sod all use to the inconvenienced passengers and has been my entire point all along!

DB will be gone completely in a decade if this attitude continues

Keep posting uninformed rants, it only shows you have a anti DB bias, this only opens the eyes of other posters to the level of anti DB bias here. Those who use the 84 or DB out in Bray can see you are posting nonsense, this can only benefit DB in the long run.

bebeman

Stephen15 wrote: »

So you're even admitting that those passengers getting off the DART at Bray would be quicker to walk up to The Main St. than get a bus.

Every passenger can walk?

L1011

bebeman wrote: »

Keep posting uninformed rants, it only shows you have a anti DB bias, this only opens the eyes of other posters to the level of anti DB bias here. Those who use the 84 or DB out in Bray can see you are posting nonsense, this can only benefit DB in the long run.

It's an anti badly run service argument. No rant, and it's coincidental that DB are running it.

No bias

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

It's an anti badly run service argument. No rant, and it's coincidental that DB are running it.

No bias

Do you use the 84?
Simple question.
Your posts on the matter lead me to believe you dont

Stephen15

bebeman wrote: »

Every passenger can walk?

Well presently the lift in Bray DART station is out of order and often is so I wouldn't want to be a wheelchair user relaying on the DART to Bray and then a bus onwards.

L1011

bebeman wrote: »

Do you use the 84?
Simple question.
Your posts on the matter lead me to believe you dont

Irrelevant distraction.

You have stated the service is run to the benefit of DB not the passengers. It's a badly run service and you are trying to construct an defense for the indefensible

bebeman

L1011 wrote: »

Irrelevant distraction.

You have stated the service is run to the benefit of DB not the passengers. It's a badly run service and you are trying to construct an defense for the indefensible

Of course it relevant, im a man, do you think i could go to the female forum and post about period pain remedies?
What would i know about that, i have never experienced it, likewise how can someone who has never traveled on the 84 pass comment on it?

L1011

bebeman wrote: »

Of course it relevant, im a man, do you think i could go to the female forum and post about period pain remedies?
What would i know about that, i have never experienced it, likewise how can someone who has never traveled on the 84 pass comment on it?

I use buses. I know how inconvenienced pax are by unauthorised route changes like that.

You have stated it is being done for DBs benefit. Screwing the passengers.

Do you use the service? As a passenger, that is.

Hugh Jampton

Stephen15 wrote: »

A decent bus connection would be cheaper.

Explain to me how a bus between Bray Station and Dundrum would be cheaper to run than between Bray Station and Brides Glen.

Stephen15

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

Explain to me how a bus between Bray Station and Dundrum would be cheaper to run than between Bray Station and Brides Glen.

Cheaper to run a bus than build a Luas line. Also Bray to Broombridge, Brides Glen to Broombridge is bad enough as is it would be one hell of a journey that would require extra rolling stock look at the problems the opening of Luas CC caused with frequency since the extra trams have yet to go into service, an extension to Bray would cause even more problems. So it would be a lot cheaper to run a bus.

Hugh Jampton

Stephen15 wrote: »

Cheaper to run a bus than build a Luas line. Also Bray to Broombridge, Brides Glen to Broombridge is bad enough as is it would be one hell of a journey that would require extra rolling stock look at the problems the opening of Luas CC caused with frequency since the extra trams have yet to go into service, an extension to Bray would cause even more problems. So it would be a lot cheaper to run a bus.

You’ve misread me. I support the bus connection between Bray Station and Brides Glen. Extending the Luas to Bray isn’t likely before the southern section of the Green Line gets converted to Metro. Given the glacially slow timetable for New Metro North I won’t be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.