I thought we were friends

Ballstein

I seem to recall around Easter time last year being told that relations between ourselves and Britain were the best they'd ever been. They looked on us as "equals" now and not as some wet and boggy back water. They sent their monarch over to visit us and we even had the grandson of the General who ordered the execution of the leaders of our independence rising sitting in the grandstand at the parade to honour these men. The sycophants in the Irish Times and a few others were even floating the idea of our republic joining the commonwealth.
Fast forward 18 months and the rhetoric has changed slightly. The British press are stirring up anti Irish sentiment once again, the average Englishman is displaying his complete ignorance of our country, its politics and our shared history. British politicians are once again talking down to their Irish counterparts and I'm reminded of that old saying of an Englishman with an inferiority complex just thinking he's the same as everyone else.
So folks, is this all just posturing on behalf of the UK establishment for the benefit of the pesky Europeans or is it a return to the same old same old of the past 700 years (bar the two weeks we were friends last Easter)?

storker

Since that time the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

tigger123

I honestly think some of the British are panicking a little as Brexit gets closer and they realise they have no f*cking clue what it means, or how it will go.

Plus, little Ireland has them by the balls (with our veto), so they're probably a little resentful.

donegaLroad

the words of a few politicians won't change my attitude towards any of my English friends.

storker

tigger123 wrote: »

I honestly think some of the British are panicking a little as Brexit gets closer and they realise they have no f*cking clue what it means, or how it will go.

Plus, little Ireland has them by the balls (with our veto), so they're probably a little resentful.

I agree with Leo (and it's not often you'll hear me say this) that they failed to think it through. Not just as in thinking it through completely, more like thinking it through at all.

King George VI

Grand bunch of lads, the English. A few politicians are acting like saps. No need to tar all the English with the same brush.

WoollyRedHat

They hate us because of our freedom. Oh and the fact we make better tea and have a theme park dedicated to a bag of crisps.

King George VI wrote: »

Grand bunch of lads, the English. A few politicians are acting like saps. No need to tar all the English with the same brush.

Oh my, your majesty! * Bows down*

suicide_circus

We stick by our friends through difficult times. But we also tell them difficult truths.

SCOOP 64

Don't think its changed at all - the natural fondness of the Irish towards the British still remain the same and vice versa!

eeguy

This months headlines about brexit are identical to those 18 months ago when it passed.

There's been no progress, no resolutions and every promise given by the pro-leave side has been shown to be a lie. Britain is going to be hundreds of billions in the hole when this is over.

If British politicians want to look down on us to make themselves feel better than go right ahead. They've little else to be happy about.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Pat Mustard

In the UK, the voters know best. They kick the politicians in the arse and the politicians scramble to do their bidding. Boris Johnson is trying to carry out the will of the British people, knowing that a kick in the arse awaits him if he does not deliver.

The people who write for The Sun are angry because Simon and Leo do not want to give Boris and Teresa what The Sun wants:

THE SUN SAYS Ireland’s naive young prime minister should shut his gob on Brexit and grow up

So we have a stalemate with both sides agreeing that they had very constructive meetings, with nothing very constructive having been done.

Welcome to Borisland.

Potatoeman

I'm not your friend, buddy.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

The British press and the British people are different. Brexit has re-exposed a very very colonial attitude to Ireland in some quarters though. That auld c*nt in the red hat from the Channel 4 video was like a character from a Republican propaganda video.

I don't have any problem with England or the English, I have English family and friends. But one thing that does annoy me is some English people's bewilderment about why an Irish person might feel a bit of antipathy towards their country.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

DEFTLEFTHAND

donegaLroad wrote: »

the words of a few politicians won't change my attitude towards any of my English friends.

Having made numerous visits to Britain, I've always preferred the English over the Scots and Welsh.

buckwheat

Potatoeman wrote: »

I'm not your friend, buddy.

I'm not your buddy, pal :cool:

storker

Gracelynn Full Sludge wrote: »

But one thing that does annoy me is some English people's bewilderment about why an Irish person might feel a bit of antipathy towards their country.

They're not taught about it in school. Actually I'm not sure what they're taught in school. When I worked in the UK I had a better knowledge of UK geography and history than most of my colleagues.

Ballstein

King George VI wrote: »

Grand bunch of lads, the English. A few politicians are acting like saps. No need to tar all the English with the same brush.

But this is the problem. People dismiss the old goat with the red hat on C4 as non indicative of an English person, they do the same with DM and Sun readers, yet it was this very reason that Brexit passed. These views are the views of a very large proportion of the English people, the majority in fact. The drum beat at the moment is harking back to past colonial glories with talk of trade agreements across the globe, despite cutting ties with their closest 27 trading partners. The world knows Britain is no longer a major global power, sadly a lot of British people haven't grasped this fact just yet.

Church on Tuesday

Ballstein wrote: »

I seem to recall around Easter time last year being told that relations between ourselves and Britain were the best they'd ever been. They looked on us as "equals" now and not as some wet and boggy back water. They sent their monarch over to visit us and we even had the grandson of the General who ordered the execution of the leaders of our independence rising sitting in the grandstand at the parade to honour these men. The sycophants in the Irish Times and a few others were even floating the idea of our republic joining the commonwealth.
Fast forward 18 months and the rhetoric has changed slightly. The British press are stirring up anti Irish sentiment once again, the average Englishman is displaying his complete ignorance of our country, its politics and our shared history. British politicians are once again talking down to their Irish counterparts and I'm reminded of that old saying of an Englishman with an inferiority complex just thinking he's the same as everyone else.
So folks, is this all just posturing on behalf of the UK establishment for the benefit of the pesky Europeans or is it a return to the same old same old of the past 700 years (bar the two weeks we were friends last Easter)?

Whatever about Brexit, your post is, to put it mildly, a bit OTT.

English people do not look upon Ireland as a "wet and boggy backwater" quite the opposite in fact. They rightly view it as a beautiful country.

I can only speak for the people in the Noth West, but they were some of the most decent, kindest people I've ever met. As long as you were decent and did your shift of work well, you were fine.

English peoples knowledge of Ireland is slim to none. It's simply not a part of their curriculum, they have come up through an entirely different, arguably better, education system to ours.

Also, roughly half of the population didn't and don't want to leave the EU, so your post is quite general and misleading.

indioblack

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's illogical to dislike all of them.
I have an English friend who tells me he hates the Irish. I use the same logic - he can't reasonably hate all of them. Some may be worthy of being disliked, and the same would apply to some English people. But the Irish aren't the Borg Collective, [I hope!], and neither are the English.
In both there will be surprisingly pleasant, [and unpleasant], variations.

OldMrBrennan83

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Ballstein

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Whatever about Brexit, your post is, to put it mildly, a bit OTT.

English people do not look upon Ireland as a "wet and boggy backwater" quite the opposite in fact. They rightly view it as a beautiful country.

I can only speak for the people in the Noth West, but they were some of the most decent, kindest people I've ever met. As long as you were decent and did your shift of work well, you were fine.

English peoples knowledge of Ireland is slim to none. It's simply not a part of their curriculum, they have come up through an entirely different, arguably better, education system to ours.

Also, roughly half of the population didn't and don't want to leave the EU, so your post is quite general and misleading.

An education system that ignores your country's involvement with your nearest neighbour for over 700 years is superior? Your trolling surely?

Church on Tuesday

Ballstein wrote: »

An education system that ignores your country's involvement with your nearest neighbour for over 700 years is superior? Your trolling surely?

Their history with us is small fry to them.

indioblack

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It took no time at all.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

storker wrote: »

They're not taught about it in school. Actually I'm not sure what they're taught in school. When I worked in the UK I had a better knowledge of UK geography and history than most of my colleagues.

Oh God I know yeah, it just gets annoying when they have an attitude like "for God knows what reason, they seem to enjoy it when we lose at football I'm sure I couldn't begin to fathom why". Just...stop not knowing things!!

I've seen some more educated and tuned in English people badly misjudge how sensible it is for them to start joking about black and tans and famine ships and things too, not something that bothers me amongst friends but best to keep those jokes for places that aren't the pub in Clare.

fergiesfolly

The English have a long and enduring superiority complex.
They're better than everyone and can boss everyone around. Except that's no longer the case and they can't cope with the new reality.
Look how their media speak of the French, Germans, Russians and Americans. Contempt, because they know these country's are stronger than them and it infuriates them. "Little" country's like Ireland who pose no threat are looked son with a mixture of benevolence, pity or mild amusement. Same would go for the Dutch, Belgians and Portuguese etc. Anyone basically they doesn't pose a threat or can't stand up to them.
But now we can and have stood to them and their noses are out of joint.
Their gutter press and low brow media have come out sparring for a fight.
Good luck to them. They've skewered themselves and I'm looking forward to when the realisation hits them.

riffmongous

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Their history with us is small fry to them.

So people keep saying, and while we are certainly not the biggest part, we are one of the most vital, in that without a history of Ireland you can't explain the UK

Ballstein

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Their history with us is small fry to them.

I agree and it’s not just history. That’s why they’re now amazed that we are actually disagreeing with them and a half Indian-half Paddy has the temerity to tell them they made a ****e of things.
It’s also coincidental that this much vaunted education system seems to consistently ignore parts of their past in which they were responsible for less than glorious actions. The famine, Sykes/Pichot, Indian partition, inventing concentration camps in Africa etc etc. these things all get glossed over it completely left out of history yet two men stumbling into each other by accident in a jungle is lauded.

Church on Tuesday

Ballstein wrote: »

I agree and it’s not just history. That’s why they’re now amazed that we are actually disagreeing with them and a half Indian-half Paddy has the temerity to tell them they made a ****e of things.
It’s also coincidental that this much vaunted education system seems to consistently ignore parts of their past in which they were responsible for less than glorious actions. The famine, Sykes/Pichot, Indian partition, inventing concentration camps in Africa etc etc. these things all get glossed over it completely left out of history yet two men stumbling into each other by accident in a jungle is lauded.

Yes, I take your point. There is a certain jingoism regarding the teaching of English history in England.

However, there's a lot of English people that would be in agreement with Varadkar, as like I said, half the population voted to remain.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Their history with us is small fry to them.

Wasn't there a Twitter furore over some programme about the Queen during the famine and the public had no idea, absolutely no clue whatsoever, about the decisions made during the famine to leave the Irish starve?

Then again, with the Internet, it really isn't difficult to find out details about practically anything but still the Kardashians trump just about anything else:rolleyes:

ToddyDoody

Ballstein wrote: »

So folks, is this all just posturing on behalf of the UK establishment for the benefit of the pesky Europeans or is it a return to the same old same old of the past 700 years (bar the two weeks we were friends last Easter)?

I happened to get a bit tipsy with an English friend of mine a while back who said that The British really enjoyed having the Irish to boss around and that they really won'the be happy until Ireland is in British hands again.

Church on Tuesday

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Wasn't there a Twitter furore over some programme about the Queen during the famine and the public had no idea, absolutely no clue whatsoever, about the decisions made during the famine to leave the Irish starve?

Then again, with the Internet, it really isn't difficult to find out details about practically anything but still the Kardashians trump just about anything else:rolleyes:

Yeah, I seem to remember something about that.

Their knowledge of the Famine is practically zero.

I guess the English History curriculum just doesn't have the space to study Ireland all that much. They have a complex history themselves, so it's natural there would be a primary focus on their own story.

Your Face

Pity about them.

tomwaterford

What I do find infathomable is the dup are being offered a get out and best of both worlds

Whatever benefits brexit might offer and access to the eu and are cutting off their nose to spite their face?



I have never actually meet someone who supports brexit from England (meet a few from north)...but I've met any amount of english who have left England over brexit

Agricola

Probably not the safest bet, but I'd love to see the Irish Gov/EU push them to the very limits over this border issue. Boris and co created this mess for their own very narrow set of agendas and now they want to run roughshod over everyone and are willing to back down on most of their promises to the British voter in order to deliver Brexit at all costs. Make them pay heavily for their arrogance.

I'm sure the DUP won't give up their bit of power over the Tories or the money that was promised them, so lets see how far their stupidity goes. Worse case scenario, they do actually pull the plug, topple the government and Corbyn is PM in no time.

Ballstein

The language from the EU tonight was unequivocal, either come up with an agreement thats acceptable to Ireland or you’ve no agreement with anyone. It’s a veto and it’s put us in a position of strength against Britain unsurpassed in our history.

Brexit is a clusterfúck, hardcore Brexiteers are deluded jingoists, the S*n is an evil shít-stirring fake news rag whose "journalists" deserve to be pelted with rotten fruit on a daily basis for working for it, and the DUP is the rancid pus that seeps from the malignant tumour that is the British political establishment.

However, I don't believe any of those people to be representative of the majority of the UK. I imagine there's quite a lot of Leave voters who are are dismayed with how things are panning out and potentially regretting their decision. I lived in England for a year and in general the people were very friendly and polite. There is certainly quite a bit ignorance about Ireland ("are you from Southern Ireland?", "do you use Euros?", "is the Queen not your head of state"?) but I can't say I ever heard anything that verged on hatred towards us.

The Irish government and the EU need to stand firm against anything that changes the border situation but there should be no hatred generated towards decent British people, especially since several of them are on our side.

indioblack

Ballstein wrote: »

I agree and it’s not just history. That’s why they’re now amazed that we are actually disagreeing with them and a half Indian-half Paddy has the temerity to tell them they made a ****e of things.
It’s also coincidental that this much vaunted education system seems to consistently ignore parts of their past in which they were responsible for less than glorious actions. The famine, Sykes/Pichot, Indian partition, inventing concentration camps in Africa etc etc. these things all get glossed over it completely left out of history yet two men stumbling into each other by accident in a jungle is lauded.

The famine, Sykes/Picot, the South African camps, partition - I managed to read about all of these nearly five decades ago - hardly "completely left out of history".
"Inventing concentration camps". I suggest you study a bit of history yourself.

buried

Feel sorry for the younger generation of British people over there, I know a few of them and are all good decent people, none of them want brexit but the thing of it is, I know for a fact not one of them bothers to vote. "whats the point" all that noise you used to hear off them, well there you go lads, there's the point. I hear that $hit a good bit now but now from my friends the same generation here in Ireland. Big mistake, it is the only power you have, you have to use it no matter how much the result is never in your favour.

Del.Monte

ToddyDoody wrote: »

I happened to get a bit tipsy with an English friend of mine a while back who said that The British really enjoyed having the Irish to boss around and that they really won'the be happy until Ireland is in British hands again.

Says more about your choice of friends than the British. I'd hazard a guess that I'm far older than you and have far more experience of the British and have never heard such utter tripe.

Leo and other Irish politicians have been quick to take cheap shots at the Brexit vote - in much the same way as people did over Trump's election - but at least the British government aren't going to keep on having referenda until the correct result for their European overlords is achieved. Given the attitiude of the Irish media and political establishment it's hardly any wonder that that their media have been venting anti-Irish sentiments, but it probably doesn't reflect the views of your average Briton who nevers gives Ireland a second thought from one end of the year to the next..

end of the road

Del.Monte wrote: »

at least the British government aren't going to keep on having referenda until the correct result for their European overlords is achieved.

if the first referendum was rejected and a different deal was given, and the constitution required that another referendum should take place within such circumstances, then they would have no choice but to have a second referendum.

Del.Monte

end of the road wrote: »

if the first referendum was rejected and a different deal was given, and the constitution required that another referendum should take place within such circumstances, then they would have no choice but to have a second referendum.

Is that what happened here - I think not.

imme

This is politics OP

Are you a Sinn Fein voter by any chance
That's the vibe I get from your thread

This is the biggest event that any of the UK politicians involved in it will ever be a part of.
They look not to be up to it.

end of the road

Del.Monte wrote: »

Is that what happened here - I think not.

we got concessions after the people voted no to lisbon the first time, so it was effectively a new treaty. had we not been able to vote on it again it would have been against democracy.

dxhound2005

Del.Monte wrote: »

but at least the British government aren't going to keep on having referenda until the correct result for their European overlords is achieved.

If it had been a Yes to Remain do you think the Brexiteers would have accepted that? Not a chance. They would have campaigned for more referendums until Nigel got his way.

They never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum when the UK voted to remain in the EEC.

Widdershins

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Whatever about Brexit, your post is, to put it mildly, a bit OTT.

English people do not look upon Ireland as a "wet and boggy backwater" quite the opposite in fact. They rightly view it as a beautiful country.

I can only speak for the people in the Noth West, but they were some of the most decent, kindest people I've ever met. As long as you were decent and did your shift of work well, you were fine.

English peoples knowledge of Ireland is slim to none. It's simply not a part of their curriculum, they have come up through an entirely different, arguably better, education system to ours.

Also, roughly half of the population didn't and don't want to leave the EU, so your post is quite general and misleading.

My experience is slightly different. I found some of the upper classes very snide about Ireland, and they do view it as inferior in every way. I had an argument with one idiot who thinks of Ireland as barren and windswept. She insisted the soil is practically sterile. She 'kindly' conceded that the Irish may celebrate/acknowledge the 100 year anniversary of the Rising, last year, but decreed that it was not on to mark the occasion on other years. Divorced from reality, like many snobs. She was pro-Brexit.

Kermit.de.frog

Her Majesty's Government requires solutions to this puzzle urgently.

Tom Mann Centuria

Widdershins wrote: »

My experience is slightly different. I found some of the upper classes very snide about Ireland, and they do view it as inferior in every way. I had an argument with one idiot who thinks of Ireland as barren and windswept. She insisted the soil is practically sterile. She 'kindly' conceded that the Irish may celebrate/acknowledge the 100 year anniversary of the Rising, last year, but decreed that it was not on to mark the occasion on other years. Divorced from reality, like many snobs. She was pro-Brexit.

The UK upper class are snide about everyone, not just the Irish, anyone who isn't also upper class in fact. Inbred, entitled w@nkers.

Church on Tuesday

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

The UK upper class are snide about everyone, not just the Irish, anyone who isn't also upper class in fact. Inbred, entitled w@nkers.

Agreed, they tend to look down on their own people.

Then again, the elite in this country tend to do the same.

pickarooney

We used to be friends a long time ago but, to be honest I haven't thought of you lately at all.