An Animals life is equal to Humans=Insanity.

LadyMacBeth_

We've created a world and a society where we are more important, and we've developed weapons that allow us to stay at the top of the food chain. All of this, however, doesn't actually mean that we are more important than other animals. Just that we like to think that we are. Why do we think we're more important? Because we consider ourselves to be more intelligent? Well that's a dangerous line of thinking, is an intelligent human's life worth more than a stupid human's life? Are cats that spend their days licking their holes going to find a cure for cancer? No, but they aren't going to launch a nuclear weapon either. Humans are contributing to the destruction of this planet far more than any other animal is. This is coming from a meat eater by the way, and yes, I am aware of my hypocrisy.

gw80

I wouldn't say they should have equal rights as we humans subscribe to because rights are a human construct, but the do deserve the right to exist as a species,( wild animals at least) on this planet, as there genes have survived, in some cases for a lot longer than our own,

_Dara_

It's cats that have the tuft of loose skin at the back of the neck, not dogs, right?

Spudmonkey

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Look at this youtube video of Louis Theroux get owned by logic by a South African on hunting animals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40W_hc_q8XU

I don't see Louis getting owned by anyone there?

kylith

_Brian wrote: »

Oh, and while I’m at it.
If you have cats or dogs inside your house, your house smells like a god damn kennel, spraying cheap air freshener just marginally masks the smell, but it’s awful and your probably nose blind to it. Your house smells bad !

Don't give a sht, personally. If you have a baby your house smells like old milk and shtty nappies. If you cook Indian food your house smells of curry. Houses smell like what's in them. Big whoop.

Why would I have a companion animal and keep it in the back garden looking in at me?

_Dara_ wrote: »

It's cats that have the tuft of loose skin at the back of the neck, not dogs, right?

Dogs have it too.

OnDraught

_Brian wrote: »

We we’re in a friends hluse for dinner one night and they let the fuccking dog lick the plates as they were going into the dishwasher “it’s handy isn’t it” she said as she caught me starring. I’ve never had even a cup of tea there since.

You would be absolutely horrified to know where most adults put their mouths on a regular basis. Paper plates for you from now on.

Spudmonkey

Not really sure how you'd draw that conclusion anyway tbh.

If you use the metric of scarcity/abundance we're probably well down the list of species in that there are a ****-ton of us. I'd probably classify a snow-leopard or other such animal as being significantly more valuable than us.

If you use the metric of what we add to the planet, I'd probably classify a lot of species higher than us in that respect also. We seem to be intent on the destruction of many habitats/things for nothing more than our own gain.

Is it because somehow we (some anyway) are capable or critical thinking or do we just think higher of ourselves than we actually should?

Galwayguy35

I'd suggest an animals life is worth a lot more than a paedophile or a rapist.

Why do we think we are so valuable anyway?

Animals have been around for millions of years before the first human appeared and if it wasn't for the fact that a larger brain gave us the edge over other species we would have probably gone extinct long ago.

And we also fooked up the planet for every other form of life.

B0jangles

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Not really sure how you'd draw that conclusion anyway tbh.

If you use the metric of scarcity/abundance we'd probably well down the list of species in that there are a ****-ton of us. I'd probably classify a snow-leopard or other such animal as being significantly more valuable than us.

If you use the metric of what we add to the planet, I'd probably classify a lot of species higher than us in that respect also. We seem to be intent on the destruction of many habitats/things for nothing more than our own gain.

Is it because somehow because we (some anyway) are capable or critical thinking or do we just think higher of ourselves than we actually should?

I was just thinking about this the other day and came to the conclusion that if you were to value a species by this metric then the humble earthworm would have to score pretty damn high - they cause no damage to either the environment or to any other living thing, and they spend their entire lives restoring and replenishing the soil that ultimately feeds every other land-based animal.

Earthworms are a lot better for the planet as a whole than we are.

It's pure, unadulterated egotism that has so many people believing that humans are intrisically more vaulable than any other species, simply because they are human.

One eyed Jack

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I'd suggest an animals life is worth a lot more than a paedophile or a rapist.

Why do we think we are so valuable anyway?

Animals have been around for millions of years before the first human appeared and if it wasn't for the fact that a larger brain gave us the edge over other species we would have probably gone extinct long ago.

And we also fooked up the planet for every other form of life.

I don't think you'll find too many would disagree there really.

As for the rest of your post though, well why shouldn't we value ourselves above animals? The fact that we do is obviously what got us where we are, and not just our bigger brains.

Of course at an individual level anyone is entitled to think they're worth less than or equal to an animal, or they're entitled to think an animal is of equal value to them, but generally speaking human do value themselves above animals, and with good reason too. Opposable thumbs for one thing! :pac:

Spudmonkey

B0jangles wrote: »

I was just thinking about this the other day and came to the conclusion that if you were to value a species by this metric then the humble earthworm would have to score pretty damn high - they cause no damage to either the environment or to any other living thing, and they spend their entire lives restoring and replenishing the soil that ultimately feeds every other land-based animal.

Earthworms are a lot better for the planet as a whole than we are.

It's pure, unadulterated egotism that has so many people believing that humans are intrisically more vaulable than any other species, simply because they are human.

Watch the blue planet 2 and see how plankton are basically the ultimate food source for the majority of marine life. It's probably organisms at the bottom of the food chain that are more valuable than apex predators.

Stonedpilot

B0jangles wrote: »

I was just thinking about this the other day and came to the conclusion that if you were to value a species by this metric then the humble earthworm would have to score pretty damn high - they cause no damage to either the environment or to any other living thing, and they spend their entire lives restoring and replenishing the soil that ultimately feeds every other land-based animal.

Earthworms are a lot better for the planet as a whole than we are.

It's pure, unadulterated egotism that has so many people believing that humans are intrisically more vaulable than any other species, simply because they are human.

Egotism my arse.

No it's not, it's ordained from God almightly himself. Genesis 1:26.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God said it so it's good enough for me.

Now perhaps you don't believe in God but billions do (many people far smarter than you or I, I may add) and they accept his word on it. :cool:

B0jangles

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Egotism my arse.

No it's not, it's ordained from God almightly himself. Genesis 1:26.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God said it so it's good enough for me.

Now perhaps you don't believe in God but billions do (many people far smarter than you or I, I may add) and they accept his word on it. :cool:

I see you've chosen to go with believing the word of the God who appears in the Old Testament.

Over the millenia, billions of people have believed just as fervently in thousands upon thousands of other gods, most of whom have been long forgotten.

Good thing you happened to be born in the right time and place to hear about the only real one, eh?

What are the odds of that happening?

Ave Sodalis

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Egotism my arse.

No it's not, it's ordained from God almightly himself. Genesis 1:26.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God said it so it's good enough for me.

Now perhaps you don't believe in God but billions do (many people far smarter than you or I, I may add) and they accept his word on it. :cool:

Between this post and the one about how even an evil person is worth more than an animal, your opinion on this matter has lost all credibility in my eyes...

La.de.da

I couldn't give a fùck what people think. I adore my dog. I had two until recently, I still very much grieve the one I had to put to sleep. Much more than any human I've known.

For some people, dogs (any pets) give them a propose to get up in the morning and company.

Pac1Man

Stonedpilot wrote: »

No it's not, it's ordained from God almightly himself. Genesis 1:26....

_Dara_

Mickeroo wrote: »

Also what do dogs have their mouths that can survive dish washers and kill you afterwards?

Faecal matter. Now, you can say "what's the big deal?", dishwashers are good and hot. But how would you feel about human faecal matter coming near the plates you eat off, even after a dishwasher spin? It's just very unappetising Plus, spore-forming bacteria are more resilient and may not be killed off. I don't know if dog faeces contain any but I know that it's considered nasty stuff for a reason.

Isolt

I love my cat. He's cute and affectionate and not that much of a prick despite his feline genes.

However, if I saw my cat and a human I did not know and they were both in a burning building I think instinct would make me grab the human first and save them. I don't think that makes me bad. I just couldn't choose to leave that human behind without trying to save him.

Stonedpilot

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Between this post and the one about how even an evil person is worth more than an animal, your opinion on this matter has lost all credibility in my eyes...

Oh God no!. Say it isn't so;)

Well where's the logic in saying a gerbil or a mouses life is worth more than a evil person's (evil being subjective).

As far as I'm concerned someone who thinks the above is totally insane.

kylith

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Watch the blue planet 2 and see how plankton are basically the ultimate food source for the majority of marine life. It's probably organisms at the bottom of the food chain that are more valuable than apex predators.

Absolutely. If humans, lions, or tigers were wiped off the planet there'd be problems, yes, but the system would adapt. If the ants, slugs, or bacteria in the soil vanished the entire ecosystem would fall apart.

Akrasia

A tiger cub is worth a lot more to its mother than your baby is worth to the tiger.

Value is inherently subjective. Human life is worth more to humans (sometimes) but a mammy sheep just wants her lambs to not get eaten.

A goat herder might happily shoot the last breeding pair of Bengal tigers just to save his own mangy goat

Then you have the animals with no apparent self awareness who don't value anything at all, but may have value as an important part of the food web

Comparing value is meaningless without a context who values what, for what reason?

Stonedpilot

B0jangles wrote: »

I see you've chosen to go with believing the word of the God who appears in the Old Testament.

Over the millenia, billions of people have believed just as fervently in thousands upon thousands of other gods, most of whom have been long forgotten.

Good thing you happened to be born in the right time and place to hear about the only real one, eh?

What are the odds of that happening?

Theres only one God. Billions of Gods eh. You listening to that eejit Dawkins by any chance?.

Sonics2k

This thread took a really sharp and bizarre turn very very quickly.

borderlinemeath

_Brian wrote: »

You see allot of people with some serious lack in their lives, they transfer human traits and standards into animals as a compensation for whatever is missing.

So what? The clue is in the name. Dogs are companion animals. They could be a lonely persons best friend, particularly for older people who may live alone, their pet may be the reason that they live the house. What skin is it off your nose if their pet makes them happy?

It’s awfully sad.
See people talking to dogs calling themselves “mummy and daddy”, kissing and slobbering over a dog, ffs, the dog just licked its ass and your kissing it We we’re in a friends hluse for dinner one night and they let the fuccking dog lick the plates as they were going into the dishwasher “it’s handy isn’t it” she said as she caught me starring. I’ve never had even a cup of tea there since.

I talk to my dogs all day, every day. They understand a huge amount of what I say and do. I kiss and hug them and yes, myself and my husband are Mammy and Daddy! They are the words they understand.

For some reason you think dogs lick their backsides all the time. I hate to break it to you, but that's a bit of a stereotype, and doesn't actually happen. Not to healthy dogs anyway. If any of my 4 dogs were licking their bits, I would think their was something wrong and investigate. Besides, dogs have an enzyme in their saliva called lysozyme that basically acts as a mouth cleanser. That's not to say I'd let one of mine lick my face after eating a raw bone, but I certainly have accepted kisses from them.

Tell me Brian, do you know many diseases that are zoonotic? Once a dog is wormed and isn't hopping with fleas then there's not a lot you can catch. All my plates are licked clean before going into the dishwasher too. TBH, I'd be more concerned about the chemical cleaners in the dishwasher detergent.

I’ve been around farming all my life and we have pets here that are well looked after. But they are not treated like humans in any way.

Your attitude is pretty typical of farming. All animals are commodities, whether livestock or pet. While dogs would be stimulated through work, or through generally activity in the farm yard, they get locked away in a shed at night, not neutered, left to breed in isolation, wasn't all that long ago when it was acceptable for farmers to drown excess pups. It still goes on, but just not as brazenly as it used to be.

Oh, and while I’m at it.
If you have cats or dogs inside your house, your house smells like a god damn kennel, spraying cheap air freshener just marginally masks the smell, but it’s awful and your probably nose blind to it. Your house smells bad !

Well done on being captured by the marketing gods, you've practically quoted the febreze ad:D

Not only do I have my dogs in the house, but they are allowed on the furniture! And a toddler, and in fairness, her nappies smell way, way worse than they do. Sweet suffering Jesus, some of the smells that have come out of that child would knock you out! Changing the throws on the couches and regular washing of their beds keeps things fresh.

Dogs can smell bad for a variety of reasons, and sometimes it's not the dog at all, people can be incredibly lazy about washing their bedding and that can be the stinker.
1/ cheap food full of fillers can make a dog smell bad, feed rubbish, your dog may smell like it.
2/ Certain breeds with long pendulous ears (think cocker spaniel) tend to be more prone to ear problems, and the yeasty build up can smell rotten. 3/ Wet dog smell.
4/ Some dogs are prone to skin issues - westies with atopic dermatitis, bulldogs and pugs can get infections in their skin folds etc
5/ Certain dogs like to roll in the fecal deposits of others, fox and badger poo is particularly pungent and difficult to remove. No shampoo will remove it, but tomato ketchup is a far more effective neutraliser of the smell.

So Brian, hypothetical question, if you went blind, and were offered an assistance dog to aid you go about your daily life, not only to assist you while outside, but in your house. How would you rationalise that with your opinion that dogs are smelly animals that belong outside?

Pac1Man

Stonedpilot wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned someone who thinks the above is totally insane.

You quoted an ancient scripture written thousands of years ago, translated multiple times before it reached English. This is proof?

I don't believe in an ounce of religion but it has it's place, reminding people of certain positive values which they can live by. All good stuff. But taking instruction from that ancient book is my own definition of insanity. Come up with your own ideas.

givyjoe

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Oh God no!. Say it isn't so;)

Well where's the logic in saying a gerbil or a mouses life is worth more than a evil person's (evil being subjective).

As far as I'm concerned someone who thinks the above is totally insane.

There's that God Fella again, personally I'm more of a Santa Claus and Superman fan.

Nekarsulm

Re. the occurance of dogs licking their backsides, it's not the only reason I'd be reluctant to let my dogs clean my household cookware.
A dog finds the strangest things appealing/appetizing.
Sheep **** for example, and uterine discharges from cows.
I have a collie that likes nothing better than rolling in badger ****. The smell of him would smother you.
Add in whatever they find dead, and while they are great companions and wonderful animals, I don't relish the thoughts of having them licking things in the kitchen.
As for people who let them lick their mouths, or their children's mouths, aaargh!

denismc

Leave my furbaby alone:D

seamus

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Very unhinged bizarre thinking.

borderlinemeath

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Re. the occurance of dogs licking their backsides, it's not the only reason I'd be reluctant to let my digs clean my household cookware.
A dog finds the strangest things appealing/appetizing.
Sheep **** for example, and uterine discharges from cows.
I have a collie that likes nothing better than rolling in badger ****. The smell of him would smother you.
Add in whatever they find dead, and while they are great companions and wonderful animals, I don't relish the thoughts of having them licking things in the kitchen.
As for people who let them lick their mouths, or their children's mouths, aaargh!

As I said above - tomato ketchup. Rub into the badger poo, leave for 10 minutes, wash off. No smell.
And tell me, what do they "lick" bar the plates that are getting washed in the kitchen? Mine don't counter surf or take food off plates.

If you are really worried about germs you should be more concerned aout what you can't see. You do realise the money in your pocket/wallet is teeming with millions more bacteria?
Or even if you wash your hands leaving a public bathroom, you still have to touch the door on the way out, and think of all the others who haven't?
Or the table top in a restaurant wiped down with a well used cloth or sponge, teeming in bacteria? And even if that is clean, you use your hand to pull out and pull in your chair - probably touched last by a person who didn't wash their hands coming out of the bathroom?
Public transport is another area that is rife with bugs and bacteria.

How are we all still alive?