Alarm Companies.

r65

Can I ask the good people on here their experiences getting an alarm company to quote?
I've been told that my application for another gun won't be considered until there is an alarm fitted, and checked by the CPO.

Are half of these one man companies con artists?

I have rang four so far.

First one never responded to calls and voice messages.
Second one never answered either landline or mobile. I left several messages but no call back. I then applied for quote via their Facebook page, but no response. 3 days later I left negative feedback, and it was removed within hours.
Third one called back after several calls and leaving messages. His call got dropped, and when I rang back it went to voicemail.
He left a message saying he'd call back, as he was in a bad area. That was Friday morning, no call since.

Finally today I called a company who seem to want to sell an alarm system! Coming out tomorrow to quote.
Is this normal? Are they mostly cowboys?
If they won't answer the phone when you want to buy a system, what hope is there of helping you if a problem arises?

minktrapper

A lot of electrician's do alarm systems too.

SureHowBad

PhoneWatch are top class but at €40 odd euro a month not the cheapest! Having said that they put in monitored smoke and carbon dioxide alarms as well if you want them.

Hack12

They all have to be registered to I think the PSA. You may not require a monitired alarm depending on the number of guns you have. If you are planning on getting more or some restricted it is best just to take the pain now. There was a company fitting for free but you had to sign a contract for 2 or 3 years. I am not sure of the monthly repayment but worth a google

iwillhtfu

SureHowBad wrote: »

PhoneWatch are top class but at €40 odd euro a month not the cheapest! Having said that they put in monitored smoke and carbon dioxide alarms as well if you want them.

This couldn't be further from the truth with regard to quality of product or workmanship. Yes there monitoring is good but no better than any other monitoring service.

OP all contractors have to be registered with the NSAI so best to use one of those. There are plenty of sparks that will do it for you but you may run into difficulties further down the road if you want to get it monitored etc. they're clamping down very hard on unregistered companies.

Also any company can set up your house alarm to be monitored it isn't unique to phone watch. What is unique is their eagerness to install wireless sensors everywhere. Those boys don't like pulling in cables and generally tend to ignore wiring already in place.

r65

Hi again. They rang back to say their tech. was in the area, so he has just been.
At last a bit of service!
Going to email a quote this evening. Using existing wiring as much as possible, plus anti shock sensors on Windows. InfraRed motion detectors on 3 areas plus contacts on doors.
Alert to 3 different mobiles plus controlled from my phone via broadband

Hack12

Chack Garda site for secure firearms legislation (or google). Make sure you get the correct security for the firearms you have or want in the future. GPS vs analogue etc

grassroot1

Sounds like any other Irish company we are supposed to chase them and be grateful when they contact us.

ezra_

Crimewatch are excellent.

Offices in Wexford and Kilkenny, but travel nationwide. Never had any problems and they were always prompt when calling out for maintenance.

2011

SureHowBad wrote: »

PhoneWatch are top class but at €40 odd euro a month not the cheapest! Having said that they put in monitored smoke and carbon dioxide alarms as well if you want them.

They are anything but “top class” in my opinion. Have a read of dozens of posts here to get some idea of the many issues so many customers have had:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1366

2011

OP if you want a recommendation and live in Leinster send me a PM.
I am not an alarm installer but have firearms and know a very good installer.

SureHowBad

iwillhtfu wrote: »

This couldn't be further from the truth with regard to quality of product or workmanship. Yes there monitoring is good but no better than any other monitoring service.

OP all contractors have to be registered with the NSAI so best to use one of those. There are plenty of sparks that will do it for you but you may run into difficulties further down the road if you want to get it monitored etc. they're clamping down very hard on unregistered companies.

Also any company can set up your house alarm to be monitored it isn't unique to phone watch. What is unique is their eagerness to install wireless sensors everywhere. Those boys don't like pulling in cables and generally tend to ignore wiring already in place.

Surprised at the negative feedback here, IMO they have offered me nothing but an excellent service, from installation to monitoring. The monitoring is TOP CLASS to the point where if you the alarm is set off and you don't respond the Gardai are notified and call to the house. To me this offers massive piece of mind. But look sure you will always have two sides to every story....

ezra_

SureHowBad wrote: »

Surprised at the negative feedback here, IMO they have offered me nothing but an excellent service, from installation to monitoring. The monitoring is TOP CLASS to the point where if you the alarm is set off and you don't respond the Gardai are notified and call to the house. To me this offers massive piece of mind. But look sure you will always have two sides to every story....

That isn't actually true. the guards will only be notified once the alarm has been triggered one sensor and then a subsequent sensor goes off (so think door sensor and PIR).

Most reputable companies offer that; I wouldn't go with phonewatch after experiences with them regarding maintenance and call outs.

r65

Thanks to those who PM'ed me with helpful advice, I might be making a bit of progress!

2011

SureHowBad wrote: »

Surprised at the negative feedback here, IMO they have offered me nothing but an excellent service, from installation to monitoring.

Here is a taste of the more recent threads about the PhoneWatch alarm systems:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057813225

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057593414

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057807240

You know that customers no longer own these systems, they now rent them?

SureHowBad

ezra_ wrote: »

That isn't actually true. the guards will only be notified once the alarm has been triggered one sensor and then a subsequent sensor goes off (so think door sensor and PIR).

Most reputable companies offer that; I wouldn't go with phonewatch after experiences with them regarding maintenance and call outs.

I don't know where you got this idea but when my alarm is set off, one sensor or otherwise, I'm phoned by PhoneWatch. If they don't make contact with me or I tell them that I'm not at home the guards are notified. As I said earlier I'm only giving my experience of them. I have no doubt there are plenty of other very good reputable companies supplying the same service, but i'm with PhoneWatch and can't fault them to be honest, that's my experience...

SureHowBad

2011 wrote: »

Here is a taste of the more recent threads about the PhoneWatch alarm systems:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057813225

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057593414

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057807240

You know that customers no longer own these systems, they now rent them?

To be fair 2 of the 3 links you show are people quibbling over contracts. You'll have the same ****e whether you're dealing with a mobile phone company, electricity supplier etc. All part of the course if you don't read the fine print.

The first thread is showing a salesman misselling the product; stick up a thread on this and you'll see the raft of different people who have been missold products from all different companies in all walks of life, reputable ones and all :rolleyes:

ezra_

SureHowBad wrote: »

I don't know where you got this idea but when my alarm is set off, one sensor or otherwise, I'm phoned by PhoneWatch. If they don't make contact with me or I tell them that I'm not at home the guards are notified. As I said earlier I'm only giving my experience of them. I have no doubt there are plenty of other very good reputable companies supplying the same service, but i'm with PhoneWatch and can't fault them to be honest, that's my experience...

I got it from the guards - they won't take a call from the monitoring company unless there have been two sensors going off.

This was confirmed by two monitoring companies.

ezra_

SureHowBad wrote: »

I don't know where you got this idea but when my alarm is set off, one sensor or otherwise, I'm phoned by PhoneWatch. If they don't make contact with me or I tell them that I'm not at home the guards are notified. As I said earlier I'm only giving my experience of them. I have no doubt there are plenty of other very good reputable companies supplying the same service, but i'm with PhoneWatch and can't fault them to be honest, that's my experience...

Just checked this on the Alarm forum here on boards and it is confirmed by the people there.

Seems like more of the usual from phonewatch...

2011

SureHowBad wrote: »

I don't know where you got this idea

Garda policy on intruder alarms, read it yourself:

http://www.isia.ie/sites/go2isiasite/files/Garda%20Alarm%20Policy%2009%2009%2008_1.pdf

2011

SureHowBad wrote: »

To be fair 2 of the 3 links you show are people quibbling over contracts.

There are many, many threads on the alarm forum with people complaining about PW alarms. More complaints than any other company, I just selected a few recent one. Have a look yourself.

Apart fom the fact that the customers no longer own the systems (they rent them) most have no perimiter protection so have to be switched off when the occupants are home. They also have fake bell boxes, making them easier to defeat. I could go on and on....
Don’t take my word for it, ask the professionals on the forum.

garrettod

SureHowBad wrote: »

PhoneWatch are top class but at €40 odd euro a month not the cheapest! Having said that they put in monitored smoke and carbon dioxide alarms as well if you want them.

Hi,

I'm not sure if I would describe them as top class, we had the alarm go off one night and they rang .... about 2 hours later, to see if everything was ok !

Also, FYI, I'm paying them €31.78 per month (incl. vat), so there is a cheaper rate than the one you are paying ... still complete robbery and I intend to look for alternatives next renewal, as it's money for old rope for them and definitely too expensive for the little they do across the 12 month period.


.

kub

garrettod wrote: »

Hi,

I'm not sure if I would describe them as top class, we had the alarm go off one night and they rang .... about 2 hours later, to see if everything was ok !

Also, FYI, I'm paying them €31.78 per month (incl. vat), so there is a cheaper rate than the one you are paying ... still complete robbery and I intend to look for alternatives next renewal, as it's money for old rope for them and definitely too expensive for the little they do across the 12 month period.


.

If you need any assistance with this please come over to us on the Home Security Forum and we will give you best advice.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1366

kub

SureHowBad wrote: »

I don't know where you got this idea but when my alarm is set off, one sensor or otherwise, I'm phoned by PhoneWatch. If they don't make contact with me or I tell them that I'm not at home the guards are notified. As I said earlier I'm only giving my experience of them. I have no doubt there are plenty of other very good reputable companies supplying the same service, but i'm with PhoneWatch and can't fault them to be honest, that's my experience...

With regard to Phone watch, well they do their thing but they have to abide to standards the same way as we all do, calling Gardai out to an alarm system that has transmitted an unverified alarm activation, ie from a single sensor is against Garda alarm response criteria.

stuartkee

You need to face facts and if your alarm doesn't ring In side and outside the house and doesn't have shock and contacts on all doors and windows at least and a BACK UP of a motion detector or two then it's not an alarm .

Most people would expect an alarm to endevor to keep a burglar out of there house not let them break in before the alarm goes off. Also dummy bellboxs where designed for the rear of a house and an active live ringing bellbox to the front is what is normal and the fact that the Phonewatch alarm panel is unable to have a ringing bellbox is a joke .It's like buying a Ferrari without an engine. And plugging in the panel into a socket is hardly engineering.
Also GSM monitoring with most small IRISH companies is €17 to €25 a month. And you get a proper choice of systems available in the marketplace better that being a one trick pony .

SureHowBad wrote: »

I don't know where you got this idea but when my alarm is set off, one sensor or otherwise, I'm phoned by PhoneWatch. If they don't make contact with me or I tell them that I'm not at home the guards are notified. As I said earlier I'm only giving my experience of them. I have no doubt there are plenty of other very good reputable companies supplying the same service, but i'm with PhoneWatch and can't fault them to be honest, that's my experience...

SakoHunter75

I've just been reading up on this, as I have a Yale DIY alarm system but it's often on the blink and I'm starting to think I need to get a more serious system (I have 3 hunting rifles in the house). I was talking to someone in Phonewatch earlier, but after reading the previous poster's comments I'm far from convinced.

Rather than continue on with the debate about Phonewatch, can others say which systems/companies they've settled on, and why?

I'm in a rural location with a couple of other houses within earshot, so I'd like to have an outside bellbox that rings, and sensors on all windows and doors would be good too. I'd rather not have to chase all the walls for cables though if that can be avoided.

ezra_

I'm a fan of crimewatch. They know their stuff, their support is great and their wireless alarms are good.

However, find a company that is local to you and has good reviews - especially when it comes to support and monitoring

SakoHunter75

ezra_ wrote: »

I'm a fan of crimewatch. They know their stuff, their support is great and their wireless alarms are good.

However, find a company that is local to you and has good reviews - especially when it comes to support and monitoring

Cheers ezra. When you say has good reviews, where would you look for those reviews?

solarwinds

At the minute a HKC system is about the best. And has various levels of monitoring e.g.
None,
Basic, can send alerts to numerous mobile phones and can be controlled through an app on your phone this facility incurs a yearly fee. A camera can also be connected so you can see on your phone when the alarm activates
and
Full, all of the above but connected to a monitoring station with the added facility of notification to you if the system fails to report to the station within 30mins i think.
Not a fan of phonewatch.
Where anouts in the country are you.

SakoHunter75

solarwinds wrote: »

At the minute a HKC system is about the best. And has various levels of monitoring e.g.
None,
Basic, can send alerts to numerous mobile phones and can be controlled through an app on your phone this facility incurs a yearly fee. A camera can also be connected so you can see on your phone when the alarm activates
and
Full, all of the above but connected to a monitoring station with the added facility of notification to you if the system fails to report to the station within 30mins i think.
Not a fan of phonewatch.
Where anouts in the country are you.

Thanks for the reply, I'm in West Cork. What's HKC?

solarwinds

The make of the system. Sorry i know no one down there into alarms. But im sure someone does.

KoolKid

HKC is just one of many Manufacturers.
Others include
Siemens Vanderbilt
Global Security Devices (GSD)
Risco
Visonic
Pyronix
GE UTC (Aritech)

Just posting for information.Not posting in any order of preference & not commercially linked to any of the above.

pm.

Hkc imo are the best.... I have the hkc quantum installed and it's brilliant, great piece of mind. You can remote monitor the alarm from your phone so you can arm and disarm when needed and much more

KoolKid

pm. wrote: »

Hkc imo are the best.... I have the hkc quantum installed and it's brilliant, great piece of mind. You can remote monitor the alarm from your phone so you can arm and disarm when needed and much more

Nothing special about those features. They are pretty standard across most systems. The difference is that HKC are the only ones that don't offer this as a free feature.

Nekarsulm

Hi all, I recently got a quote for a system. It's as follows.


Install 1 X Control panel at the fuse board.

Install 1 X keypad at the front door.

Install 1 X Wireless shock-contact sensor on the front door.

Install 1 X Wireless shock-contact sensor on the back door.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the hall.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the kitchen.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the living room.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the bedroom.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in front room.

Install 1 X internal sounder in the utility room.

Install 1 X External bell box on the front of the house.

Connect the system to the broadband for monitoring and control using smart phones.

 

Cost:                                      €845.00

How does this sound to you guys?

2011

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Install 1 X Control panel at the fuse board.

This can be a poor location depending on how easy it is for an intruder to locate.

Install 1 X Wireless shock-contact sensor on the front door.

Install 1 X Wireless shock-contact sensor on the back door.

You appear to be lacking a lot of perimeter protection as only the back and front doors seem to be picked up. No doubt you have a number of accessible windows.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the hall.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the kitchen.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the living room.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the bedroom.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in front room.

These are all good but remember:
1) All motion detectors need to be disarmed when you are in the home. Once they are off you are very vulnerable as the perimeter protection is severally lacking.
2) These can only be activated by an intruder that is already in your home.

Motion detectors in my opinion should only be used in addition to comprehensive perimeter protection.

Note: HKC also make motion detectors with built in cameras. These units will send a 3 shot burst of photos to their app.

Install 1 X internal sounder in the utility room.

Install 1 X External bell box on the front of the house.

Good. A functioning bell box is very important.

Connect the system to the broadband for monitoring and control using smart phones.

Grand unless the broadband goes down. It is always best to have multiple comms paths.

€845.00

Not too bad.

I would recommend adding a shock sensor and contact to your gun safe. This can be added to a dedicated 24 hour zone that requires a separate 6 digit code. Again, easy to do with a HKC alarm.

For the record, other than family I do not install alarms systems anymore.

freddieot

Motion sensors tell you someone is in your home. Contacts and particularly vibration sensors tell they are trying to get in...

deerhunter1

r65 wrote: »

Can I ask the good people on here their experiences getting an alarm company to quote?
I've been told that my application for another gun won't be considered until there is an alarm fitted, and checked by the CPO.

Are half of these one man companies con artists?

I have rang four so far.

First one never responded to calls and voice messages.
Second one never answered either landline or mobile. I left several messages but no call back. I then applied for quote via their Facebook page, but no response. 3 days later I left negative feedback, and it was removed within hours.
Third one called back after several calls and leaving messages. His call got dropped, and when I rang back it went to voicemail.
He left a message saying he'd call back, as he was in a bad area. That was Friday morning, no call since.

Finally today I called a company who seem to want to sell an alarm system! Coming out tomorrow to quote.
Is this normal? Are they mostly cowboys?
If they won't answer the phone when you want to buy a system, what hope is there of helping you if a problem arises?

Buy a wireless monitor alarm yourself and install it, eircom watch etc are a waste of money,do it yourself,simple to do

Walter Mittys Brother

A buddy of mine was told by Garda that only a system installed & monitored by a PSA registered company would be acceptable. He wanted to put in a DIY system.

KoolKid

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Hi all, I recently got a quote for a system. It's as follows.


Install 1 X Control panel at the fuse board.

Install 1 X keypad at the front door.

Install 1 X Wireless shock-contact sensor on the front door.

Install 1 X Wireless shock-contact sensor on the back door.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the hall.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the kitchen.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the living room.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in the bedroom.

Install 1 X Wired motion sensor in front room.

Install 1 X internal sounder in the utility room.

Install 1 X External bell box on the front of the house.

Connect the system to the broadband for monitoring and control using smart phones.

 

Cost:                                      €845.00

How does this sound to you guys?

It would also help to know what system he is quoting you for, but as already said,internal motion protection only is useless. You should be looking at covering all accessible points of entry with sensors & contacts & then have one or two internal motion sensors to verify an alarm.

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

A buddy of mine was told by Garda that only a system installed & monitored by a PSA registered company would be acceptable. He wanted to put in a DIY system.

I think the Guard means for central station monitoring with Garda response.

Walter Mittys Brother

KoolKid wrote: »

I think the Guard means for central station monitoring with Garda response.

Would a central station monitoring service have to be PSA licenced?

deerhunter1

ezra_ wrote: »

I got it from the guards - they won't take a call from the monitoring company unless there have been two sensors going off.

This was confirmed by two monitoring companies.

and by two sensors they mean internal sensors not windows or doors, internal as in PIRs, you are wasting good money paying a company to monitor your alarm

2011

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

Would a central station monitoring service have to be PSA licenced?

Yes, but this is generally not required.
Have a read of this:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=87248&d=1249566160

Naturally additional security requirements can be added at the discretion of the super / chief super.

deerhunter1

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

A buddy of mine was told by Garda that only a system installed & monitored by a PSA registered company would be acceptable. He wanted to put in a DIY system.

all due respect that is bull****,

2011

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

A buddy of mine was told by Garda that only a system installed & monitored by a PSA registered company would be acceptable. He wanted to put in a DIY system.

Incorrect, I installed my own and I am not PSA registered. I made no secret of this when asked. Having said that I installed a high quality system.

Walter Mittys Brother

Interesting must tell my buddy

If Garda insisted on what they've looked for where would he stand? It looks like he'd have to comply or go to court?

Nekarsulm

2011 wrote: »

Incorrect, I installed my own and I am not PSA registered. I made no secret of this when asked. Having said that I installed a high quality system.

Depends entirely on the whims of your Sarge, and his Super.
As linked to above, this is in their list.

Three or more restricted firearms or six or more firearms, of any type, kept in the same place. In addition to the standards specified at reference number 3, the place in which the firearms are stored shall have an intruder alarm system, installed and maintained by installers licensed by the Private Security Authority, which complies with I.S. EN 50131 or an equivalent standard approved by the Commissioner of the Garda Siochana. The alarm shall be connected to a monitoring service, operated by a person licensed by the Private Security Authority, and supported with GSM Mobile telephone service back up signalling facilities.

Walter Mittys Brother

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Depends entirely on the whims of your Sarge, and his Super.
As linked to above, this is in their list.

Three or more restricted firearms or six or more firearms, of any type, kept in the same place. In addition to the standards specified at reference number 3, the place in which the firearms are stored shall have an intruder alarm system, installed and maintained by installers licensed by the Private Security Authority, which complies with I.S. EN 50131 or an equivalent standard approved by the Commissioner of the Garda Siochana. The alarm shall be connected to a monitoring service, operated by a person licensed by the Private Security Authority, and supported with GSM Mobile telephone service back up signalling facilities.

That's more or less what he was told.

2011

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Depends entirely on the whims of your Sarge, and his Super.
As linked to above, this is in their list.

Yes, I said that in post #43 and linked to the secure accommodation SI
My point is that a PSA installed alarm is not required in most cases.

SakoHunter75

2011 wrote: »

Having said that I installed a high quality system.

Can I ask what that system was, 2011?

2011

SakoHunter75 wrote: »

Can I ask what that system was, 2011?

Mine is a HKC.
However I would highly rate the Siemens offering.

Without getting into the specifics of how to bypass an alarm let me say this, the bar is set very low for complying to EN50131, meaning that a number of alarms certified to this standard are installed in a way that it would simply enough to defeat them without requiring any real technical understanding.

The real vulnerabilities in alarm systems are down how they are installed, far more so than whether it is a HKC, Siemens or whatever make.

Whatever system you go for I would strongly recommend the following:

1) Full perimeter protection. That means every exterior window and door has an inertia hack sensor and contacts fitted.

2) A functioning bell box.

3) Motion detectors as back up only. Remember, these are only activated when it is too late i.e. the intruder is already in your home! I would rather be notified before this occurs.

4) Gun cabinet on a dedicated 24 hour zone requiring a separate code. Contact installed in the cabinet and shock sensor on the outside.

5) App control of the alarm. That way you can see the status, arm / disarm from anywhere in addition to a number of other features.

6) Multiple communication paths.

7) For obvious reasons the alarm panel should be difficult for an intruder to locate. Beside the distribution board at the front door is far from ideal!

It should also be noted that in many cases the alarm can be extended to pick up sheds. If there is no cable in place this can often be done wirelessly.