The emergence of MTK / formerly MGM.

Danye

Tyson Fury is the latest high profile boxer to sign for MTK.

Do these boxers, particularly the Irish lads, even more so the Dublin lads not be bothered with the connections this crowd are suppose to have?

How (apart from the obvious answer) have these lads been able to sign up and look after so many lads?

It’s great they’re giving lads great opportunities but I just find it hard to warm to it given their connections.

Joe Musashi

I imagine they are being given big signing bonuses and perhaps better terms than other management groups but that is pure speculation on my part.

Joe Musashi

Deleted

Boooourns

The head man of MTK takes a backward step from the public recently and lord a behold they sign Frampton and Fury.....

Sweet Science

Weren't MGM bought out ? So the previous characters are no longer involved

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Weren't MGM bought out ? So the previous characters are no longer involved

Yes, I'd say they're not at all involved!...................................

Sweet Science

Really - that group or whatever you want to call them are falling apart . Every week they are losing serious amount of money due to stings . It looks like their high up 'lietenants' are going away for a stretch .

Their links dont really want much to do with them anymore because of it . I think they sold it off for a lump sum and arent involved anymore . Call me naive

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Really - that group or whatever you want to call them are falling apart . Every week they are losing serious amount of money due to stings . It looks like their high up 'lietenants' are going away for a stretch .

Their links dont really want much to do with them anymore because of it . I think they sold it off for a lump sum and arent involved anymore . Call me naive

Matthew Macklin is involved, and he is very much involved with a certain member of that cartel. They are quite close friends.

normanoffside

Off Topic but I see that Conor McGregor is getting involved with the lads, albeit in a different way to Fury and co!

Danye

pac_man wrote: »

What's the alternative?

Fair point. While it’s good that so many lads are getting a chance I feel it’s somewhat disingenuous.

Some of their fighters have only hopes of achieving journeymen status at best which makes me wonder why sign them in the first place?

Danye

Sweet Science wrote: »

Really - that group or whatever you want to call them are falling apart . Every week they are losing serious amount of money due to stings . It looks like their high up 'lietenants' are going away for a stretch .

Their links dont really want much to do with them anymore because of it . I think they sold it off for a lump sum and arent involved anymore . Call me naive

Without wishing to sound smart, how do you know this? Because some propaganda the guards feed the media?

In 2010 they were suppose to have amassed a half a billion euro fortune plus what they made in the last couple of years before this “feud”. How can a couple of seizures here and there have such a massive dent in their finances?

Sweet Science

Just speculating - i'd be no expert on them .

Mantis Toboggan

Danye wrote: »

Without wishing to sound smart, how do you know this? Because some propaganda the guards feed the media?

In 2010 they were suppose to have amassed a half a billion euro fortune plus what they made in the last couple of years before this “feud”. How can a couple of seizures here and there have such a massive dent in their finances?

Make that 1 billion, possibly the most successful Irish business man ever. However the net is slowly starting to tighten. I'm sure they're happy enough in their mansion in dubai until the dust settles.

Joe_ Public

It’s a tough one, especially when we don’t know the full facts but can feel pretty sure something doesn’t add up. Did it bother us years back when so many of the greats kept associations with dodgy and sinister forces? On the other hand, how would I personally feel as an athlete suspecting my life is being funded, at least partly, by dodgy money? Not particularly noble if I’m honest.

Danye

pac_man wrote: »

David Price currently on this MTK card.

Heard he looked awful?

snowflaker

I won’t support MTK from fighters financially- wish some of them the best though.

Morrison J

Perfect comeback fight for Fury tbf. Easy win for him and sells tickets. Fury probably has a better gas tank than Price today.

HigginsJ

pac_man wrote: »

Even last night you got the sense that he's another accident waiting to happen. He's had a couple of fights now that he looks a bit ragged after a couple of rounds. Fitness issues, mental issues or probably both but there's something that doesn't look right which is a shame. Given his power and the lack of depth in the division, he's only one or two fights away from a big fight.

He is ****ing petrified of opening up if you ask me. Have heard him saying he wants rounds etc. but he should be getting these bums out inside of a round.

Sebastian Dangerfield

HigginsJ wrote: »

He is ****ing petrified of opening up if you ask me. Have heard him saying he wants rounds etc. but he should be getting these bums out inside of a round.

He shouldn't be fighting them in the first place. Blowing off the cobwebs is one thing, he seems to be on a repeat cycle of losing, fighting woeful fighters with losing records, then repeat.

Nothing wrong with easing back up, but at this stage of his career fighting guys with losing records is absolutely pointless. He'd be much better off getting in with guys like Sam Sexton or Ian Lewison. If his plan is to stay active just enough to luck into a big payday, it almost worked with AJ last year, but he is going nowhere fast like this

Joeseph Balls

Is Jamie Moore still involved with them or did he he leave after his accident

walshb

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Is Jamie Moore still involved with them or did he he leave after his accident

He is Frampton’s trainer, so that means he is involved...

Danye

walshb wrote: »

He is Frampton’s trainer, so that means he is involved...

Anybody else think Frampton made a mistake with choosing Moore as his trainer? Nice lad Jamie and I enjoy his analysis when he’s on TV but his training resume includes Macklin, Coyle, and Fielding. Hardly world class performers.

walshb

Danye wrote: »

Anybody else think Frampton made a mistake with choosing Moore as his trainer? Nice lad Jamie and I enjoy his analysis when he’s on TV but his training resume includes Macklin, Coyle, and Fielding. Hardly world class performers.

I think trainers can be sometimes a bit overrated.

In Carl's case he is a veteran. Boxing all his life. I know you can always learn, but at this stage of his career, he has pretty much everything. Will that be good enough? And if so, good enough to get where?

If he was starting out then the trainer choice I feel is that bit more important.

The boxer does the vast majority of the work and puts in the most effort in training.

Moore is an old school type trainer. That to me is grand. I am sure he is trying a bit of this and that as well. But ultimately it's the boxer and his/her talent and passion that will either make it or not.

Moore's resume is of little relevance I feel. Many famous trainers suffered failure with boxers. The boxer really has to have it. Similar to famous and successful jockeys. Are they really that much better than their peers? The horse is the real difference in most cases...

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I think trainers can be sometimes a bit overrated.

In Carl's case he is a veteran. Boxing all his life. I know you can always learn, but at this stage of his career, he has pretty much everything. Will that be good enough? And if so, good enough to get where?

If he was starting out then the trainer choice I feel is that bit more important.

The boxer does the vast majority of the work and puts in the most effort in training.

Moore is an old school type trainer. That to me is grand. I am sure he is trying a bit of this and that as well. But ultimately it's the boxer and his/her talent and passion that will either make it or not.

Moore's resume is of little relevance I feel. Many famous trainers suffered failure with boxers. The boxer really has to have it. Similar to famous and successful jockeys. Are they really that much better than their peers? The horse is the real difference in most cases...

I would never downplay the importance of a good coach. S/he doesn’t necessarily have to be a star name but the relationship has to work. Yes, the boxer has to do the work, but a trainer can motivate and potentially eke out the extra 1 per cent that could mean the difference between title belt and also ran.

Believe it or not, but lots of jockeys now employ coaches. Jockeys are different, though. The two main factors for a jockey, imo, are judging pace in a race and not fcking up, especially on the big day or when the money is down. Pressure leads to mistakes and the best make the fewest of them.

walshb

A lot of trainers-coaches are as much mentally important/inspiring as physically important. Just knowing the coach-trainer is with you and part of you can give you that extra edge. Look at Rooney and Tyson for that.

There is that connection, rapport, admiration, confidence, respect and mutual understanding....

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Like Walshy kinda alluded to, if someone is just starting out, it's critical. But what about someone that is either in the prime or tail-end of their career?

That was my thinking exactly. New fresh and green boxers IMO are the ones in need of the pro coach and trainer. To hone and sharpen and develop them as professionals. I think as the boxer progresses the need for the physical coach lessens and the need for the mental coach increases.

Manny and Hearns are a great example.....from start to finish. Manny took a skinny undeveloped and unpolished pro and had him hitting like a machine....he was also hugely influential from a mental side and confidence side. There was a "love" developed.

Joe_ Public

I think the answer to the Eubank question is probably none if that’s his attitude. A bit of arrogance is good in a fighter, of course, but too much is a recipe for disaster. This is a time worn truism, nothing new in it.

And I agree a good trainer is as much a mental crutch as a physical one. They are both crucial to a fighters make-up. As regards Carl, I got the impression his pre-fight preparation had been lacking for the Garcia fight. Someone posted here, I think, they they felt he’d overdone the physical work and tired out. Maybe, but I felt he lacked a clear game plan, was possibly complacent and got out due to experience and survival instincts. Not sure how much I’d pin that on the coach, but it may be that the relationship needs time and that stuff still needs to be ironed out.

walshb

I think he just met a decent and skilled and big opponent. Sometimes people look for reasons as to why they "under-performed," when in reality they did not. Boxing is so intimate that sometimes you can be on very good form and doing your best, but the other man makes it that you have it tough.

But, of course, trainer/coaches can be important for all boxers: New, developed and veterans. Adaptability (particularly for aging and past if prime boxers) being why a good coach can always be an asset. They see things, implement change and implement solutions, allowing aging boxers maybe perform at a good level that bit longer.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks is not always true...

Joe_ Public

Again I’d argue a good coach isn’t merely an asset but essential. Maybe there’s the odd fighter assured and independent enough to go it alone, but more likely to be the know it all who thinks, almost certainly to his cost, that he has no more to learn.

I’d cite Bernard Dunne as an example. Dunne was smart enough to build a team around him, not just a coach/trainer, but a strength & condition guy as well and that chap Connolly who is one of the most respected sports motivators in the world. I thought early on that Dunne came across as a bit brash and arrogant but ultimately realized he had the maturity and humility to know he needed as much help as he could get. Knowing his limitations, would he have achieved as much without it? I think not anyway.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Again I’d argue a good coach isn’t merely an asset but essential. Maybe there’s the odd fighter assured and independent enough to go it alone, but more likely to be the know it all who thinks, almost certainly to his cost, that he has no more to learn.

I’d cite Bernard Dunne as an example. Dunne was smart enough to build a team around him, not just a coach/trainer, but a strength & condition guy as well and that chap Connolly who is one of the most respected sports motivators in the world. I thought early on that Dunne came across as a bit brash and arrogant but ultimately realized he had the maturity and humility to know he needed as much help as he could get. Knowing his limitations, would he have achieved as much without it? I think not anyway.

Dunne would have pretty much had the exact same record no matter what coach he had. He met very very basis opposition and beat them due to him being better. It's that simple.

His limitations were not really coach related. They were physically related. No chin and not really physically strong. That saw him exposed.

He had that one good win over Cordoba, but apart from this he got knocked clean out twice (in between) and then he retired.

No coach can really protect or safeguard a fighter from getting hit hard. That was Bernard's problem. Did not have the naturally soild chin nor the defense needed to avoid being hit. All the little tricks and tips would not prevent him getting exposed.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Dunne would have pretty much had the exact same record no matter what coach he had. He met very very basis opposition and beat them due to him being better. It's that simple.

His limitations were not really coach related. They were physically related. No chin and not really physically strong. That saw him exposed.

He had that one good win over Cordoba, but apart from this he got knocked clean out twice (in between) and then he retired.

No coach can really protect or safeguard a fighter from getting hit hard. That was Bernard's problem. Did not have the naturally soild chin nor the defense needed to avoid being hit. All the little tricks and tips would not prevent him getting exposed.

I take the point about his chin. Bernard’s limitations were well known and exposed. And the point about the paucity of the opposition is irrefutable too, as was pointed out many times during his career. Still, I’m not convinced he could have beaten Córdoba without the back up team he had, that took real shape after he got done by Martinez. I’m confident he’d acknowledge that much himself.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I take the point about his chin. Bernard’s limitations were well known and exposed. And the point about the paucity of the opposition is irrefutable too, as was pointed out many times during his career. Still, I’m not convinced he could have beaten Córdoba without the back up team he had, that took real shape after he got done by Martinez. I’m confident he’d acknowledge that much himself.

Well, he was pretty much gone in the Cordoba fight. Said it himself, and alluded to Cordoba gassing being the big difference...

Cordoba was nothing special anyway.

Plenty of other referees may have stopped that fight earlier on in Cordoba's favor.

Bernard showed a lot of character and all that, but he is a trained pro boxer. That is what they are supposed to show.

Back to coaches and teams....yes, very important overall. Not just head coach. But strength and conditioning coaches can really tweak things here and there. In the Cordoba fight the strength and conditioning coach looks to have played his part.

Sports people (and more so elite) today and recently are machines, hot property and treated like machines...nothing left to chance.

Money and science and technology playing the vital role....

Not just physical sports.....

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Well, he was pretty much gone in the Cordoba fight. Said it himself, and alluded to Cordoba gassing being the big difference...

Cordoba was nothing special anyway.

Plenty of other referees may have stopped that fight earlier on in Cordoba's favor.

Bernard showed a lot of character and all that, but he is a trained pro boxer. That is what they are supposed to show.

Back to coaches and teams....yes, very important overall. Not just head coach. But strength and conditioning coaches can really tweak things here and there. In the Cordoba fight the strength and conditioning coach looks to have played his part.

Sports people (and more so elite) today and recently are machines, hot property and treated like machines...nothing left to chance.

Money and science and technology playing the vital role....

Not just physical sports.....

One last thing on Dunne, he had mike mcgurn, a Gaa/rugby guy as his S&C coach. McGurn wouldn’t be everybody’s cup of tea but Dunne swore by him and all I’m saying is this was just one critical part of a larger jigsaw.

I don’t believe boxing is fundamentally different from any other sport in that raw talent will only get you so far. In all sports the top athletes pay big money for coaches and all sorts of technology gizmos and even pseudo science in some cases. It all goes back to the inches as that famous Al Pacino character was wont to say.

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

A lot of trainers-coaches are as much mentally important/inspiring as physically important. Just knowing the coach-trainer is with you and part of you can give you that extra edge. Look at Rooney and Tyson for that.

There is that connection, rapport, admiration, confidence, respect and mutual understanding....

That's what coaching is supposed to be. Where once their was a fear of anything scientific, in some ways it seems to have swung completely in the other direction now with people reducing the coaching role to drills and spreadsheets. Human beings aren't computers. You can't just programme them to perform a different task.

but1er

Just branched into ufc and signed Darren Till, Liverpool lad, was stabbed in Liverpool and moved to Brazil went 10-0 down their, interesting move

Mantis Toboggan

https://twibbon.com/support/mtk-fairnews-2/twitter

MTK have started a campaign to boycott Irish media!

Sebastian Dangerfield

If they had any sense they would have bought the rights to manage all those fighters from MTK and shut the company. How they could expect to carry on that name and just shrugh their shoulders saying "he's gone folks!" is laughable. I cant imagine the name brings much with it, the fighters are the commodity.

Also worth nothing that the event wasnt cancelled due to stories about MTK,it was cancelled ultimately due to Gardai having information / a belief that a hit was planned at the venue

Frankie Lee

The CEO is Sandra Vaughan, wife of Danny Vaughan who himself is a convicted fraudster and who has been part of MGM Marbella from the beginning. Daniel Kinahan is still manager of a lot of their better boxers I believe. I don't believe they have made a clean break from the Kinahan cartel and I find it hard to support Irish boxing because of them.

CatFromHue

In their statement today, MTK Global CEO Sandra Vaughan says: "Despite announcing MTK Global cutting all ties with Daniel Kinahan in February 2017, and announcing a full management buy-in by myself in October 2017, the Irish media have continued to vilify MTK Global in all and any mention of Irish boxing and MTK Global signed boxers."

The statement goes on to say that a "witch hunt" by Irish media has left them with no choice but for "MTK Global to pull out of the Republic of Ireland for the immediate future. We will not host fight nights in Dublin nor will any MTK Global athletes fight on a Dublin card. "

Did this witch hunt or vilification actually happen?

I know Paddy Barnes got some stick when he signed with them but that was a full year before Daniel Kinahan "cut ties" with MGM.

I hadn't noticed the media being too hard, or hard at all, on MGM/MTK fighters tbh.

NollagShona

I don’t support MTK fighters

super_furry

Embarrassingly clueless statement. Claim that they're the only people in the world supporting Irish boxers and then in the same breath say that they're willing to sacrifice those boxers because the papers are reporting stuff they'd rather they didn't.

MTK admit that they're throwing their boxers future under the bus and all because the Sunday World slag them off. - "Their earning capabilities are very much dependent on the number of fights they have and the number of tickets they sell for those fights. If they are not fighting on home turf then they will be unable to sell the same volume of tickets, thus drastically impacting their earning potential. This will no doubt mean driving them from the sport as many athletes will be forced to seek alternative employment to earn a living and to feed their families."

Wonder how much of this is a smokescreen to the fact that they can't put a show on in Ireland?

Clegg

Ewan McKenna has written a very interesting piece on MTK and it's continued association with the Kinahan's.

https://amp.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/boxing/ewan-mackenna-boxing-to-daniel-kinahan-is-what-football-was-to-pablo-escobar-and-its-choking-the-sport-in-ireland-36670728.html?__twitter_impression=true

Frankie Lee

Yeah nothing new at all there, well behind the tabloids in this. Macklin was never a world champion either Ewan. Still good to see MTK highlighted though.