The emergence of MTK / formerly MGM.

Danye

Tyson Fury is the latest high profile boxer to sign for MTK.

Do these boxers, particularly the Irish lads, even more so the Dublin lads not be bothered with the connections this crowd are suppose to have?

How (apart from the obvious answer) have these lads been able to sign up and look after so many lads?

It’s great they’re giving lads great opportunities but I just find it hard to warm to it given their connections.

Joe Musashi

I imagine they are being given big signing bonuses and perhaps better terms than other management groups but that is pure speculation on my part.

Joe Musashi

Deleted

Boooourns

The head man of MTK takes a backward step from the public recently and lord a behold they sign Frampton and Fury.....

Sweet Science

Weren't MGM bought out ? So the previous characters are no longer involved

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Weren't MGM bought out ? So the previous characters are no longer involved

Yes, I'd say they're not at all involved!...................................

Sweet Science

Really - that group or whatever you want to call them are falling apart . Every week they are losing serious amount of money due to stings . It looks like their high up 'lietenants' are going away for a stretch .

Their links dont really want much to do with them anymore because of it . I think they sold it off for a lump sum and arent involved anymore . Call me naive

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Really - that group or whatever you want to call them are falling apart . Every week they are losing serious amount of money due to stings . It looks like their high up 'lietenants' are going away for a stretch .

Their links dont really want much to do with them anymore because of it . I think they sold it off for a lump sum and arent involved anymore . Call me naive

Matthew Macklin is involved, and he is very much involved with a certain member of that cartel. They are quite close friends.

normanoffside

Off Topic but I see that Conor McGregor is getting involved with the lads, albeit in a different way to Fury and co!

Danye

pac_man wrote: »

What's the alternative?

Fair point. While it’s good that so many lads are getting a chance I feel it’s somewhat disingenuous.

Some of their fighters have only hopes of achieving journeymen status at best which makes me wonder why sign them in the first place?

Danye

Sweet Science wrote: »

Really - that group or whatever you want to call them are falling apart . Every week they are losing serious amount of money due to stings . It looks like their high up 'lietenants' are going away for a stretch .

Their links dont really want much to do with them anymore because of it . I think they sold it off for a lump sum and arent involved anymore . Call me naive

Without wishing to sound smart, how do you know this? Because some propaganda the guards feed the media?

In 2010 they were suppose to have amassed a half a billion euro fortune plus what they made in the last couple of years before this “feud”. How can a couple of seizures here and there have such a massive dent in their finances?

Sweet Science

Just speculating - i'd be no expert on them .

Mantis Toboggan

Danye wrote: »

Without wishing to sound smart, how do you know this? Because some propaganda the guards feed the media?

In 2010 they were suppose to have amassed a half a billion euro fortune plus what they made in the last couple of years before this “feud”. How can a couple of seizures here and there have such a massive dent in their finances?

Make that 1 billion, possibly the most successful Irish business man ever. However the net is slowly starting to tighten. I'm sure they're happy enough in their mansion in dubai until the dust settles.

Joe_ Public

It’s a tough one, especially when we don’t know the full facts but can feel pretty sure something doesn’t add up. Did it bother us years back when so many of the greats kept associations with dodgy and sinister forces? On the other hand, how would I personally feel as an athlete suspecting my life is being funded, at least partly, by dodgy money? Not particularly noble if I’m honest.

Danye

pac_man wrote: »

David Price currently on this MTK card.

Heard he looked awful?

snowflaker

I won’t support MTK from fighters financially- wish some of them the best though.

Morrison J

Perfect comeback fight for Fury tbf. Easy win for him and sells tickets. Fury probably has a better gas tank than Price today.

HigginsJ

pac_man wrote: »

Even last night you got the sense that he's another accident waiting to happen. He's had a couple of fights now that he looks a bit ragged after a couple of rounds. Fitness issues, mental issues or probably both but there's something that doesn't look right which is a shame. Given his power and the lack of depth in the division, he's only one or two fights away from a big fight.

He is ****ing petrified of opening up if you ask me. Have heard him saying he wants rounds etc. but he should be getting these bums out inside of a round.

Sebastian Dangerfield

HigginsJ wrote: »

He is ****ing petrified of opening up if you ask me. Have heard him saying he wants rounds etc. but he should be getting these bums out inside of a round.

He shouldn't be fighting them in the first place. Blowing off the cobwebs is one thing, he seems to be on a repeat cycle of losing, fighting woeful fighters with losing records, then repeat.

Nothing wrong with easing back up, but at this stage of his career fighting guys with losing records is absolutely pointless. He'd be much better off getting in with guys like Sam Sexton or Ian Lewison. If his plan is to stay active just enough to luck into a big payday, it almost worked with AJ last year, but he is going nowhere fast like this

Joeseph Balls

Is Jamie Moore still involved with them or did he he leave after his accident

walshb

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Is Jamie Moore still involved with them or did he he leave after his accident

He is Frampton’s trainer, so that means he is involved...

Danye

walshb wrote: »

He is Frampton’s trainer, so that means he is involved...

Anybody else think Frampton made a mistake with choosing Moore as his trainer? Nice lad Jamie and I enjoy his analysis when he’s on TV but his training resume includes Macklin, Coyle, and Fielding. Hardly world class performers.

walshb

Danye wrote: »

Anybody else think Frampton made a mistake with choosing Moore as his trainer? Nice lad Jamie and I enjoy his analysis when he’s on TV but his training resume includes Macklin, Coyle, and Fielding. Hardly world class performers.

I think trainers can be sometimes a bit overrated.

In Carl's case he is a veteran. Boxing all his life. I know you can always learn, but at this stage of his career, he has pretty much everything. Will that be good enough? And if so, good enough to get where?

If he was starting out then the trainer choice I feel is that bit more important.

The boxer does the vast majority of the work and puts in the most effort in training.

Moore is an old school type trainer. That to me is grand. I am sure he is trying a bit of this and that as well. But ultimately it's the boxer and his/her talent and passion that will either make it or not.

Moore's resume is of little relevance I feel. Many famous trainers suffered failure with boxers. The boxer really has to have it. Similar to famous and successful jockeys. Are they really that much better than their peers? The horse is the real difference in most cases...

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I think trainers can be sometimes a bit overrated.

In Carl's case he is a veteran. Boxing all his life. I know you can always learn, but at this stage of his career, he has pretty much everything. Will that be good enough? And if so, good enough to get where?

If he was starting out then the trainer choice I feel is that bit more important.

The boxer does the vast majority of the work and puts in the most effort in training.

Moore is an old school type trainer. That to me is grand. I am sure he is trying a bit of this and that as well. But ultimately it's the boxer and his/her talent and passion that will either make it or not.

Moore's resume is of little relevance I feel. Many famous trainers suffered failure with boxers. The boxer really has to have it. Similar to famous and successful jockeys. Are they really that much better than their peers? The horse is the real difference in most cases...

I would never downplay the importance of a good coach. S/he doesn’t necessarily have to be a star name but the relationship has to work. Yes, the boxer has to do the work, but a trainer can motivate and potentially eke out the extra 1 per cent that could mean the difference between title belt and also ran.

Believe it or not, but lots of jockeys now employ coaches. Jockeys are different, though. The two main factors for a jockey, imo, are judging pace in a race and not fcking up, especially on the big day or when the money is down. Pressure leads to mistakes and the best make the fewest of them.

walshb

A lot of trainers-coaches are as much mentally important/inspiring as physically important. Just knowing the coach-trainer is with you and part of you can give you that extra edge. Look at Rooney and Tyson for that.

There is that connection, rapport, admiration, confidence, respect and mutual understanding....

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Like Walshy kinda alluded to, if someone is just starting out, it's critical. But what about someone that is either in the prime or tail-end of their career?

That was my thinking exactly. New fresh and green boxers IMO are the ones in need of the pro coach and trainer. To hone and sharpen and develop them as professionals. I think as the boxer progresses the need for the physical coach lessens and the need for the mental coach increases.

Manny and Hearns are a great example.....from start to finish. Manny took a skinny undeveloped and unpolished pro and had him hitting like a machine....he was also hugely influential from a mental side and confidence side. There was a "love" developed.

Joe_ Public

I think the answer to the Eubank question is probably none if that’s his attitude. A bit of arrogance is good in a fighter, of course, but too much is a recipe for disaster. This is a time worn truism, nothing new in it.

And I agree a good trainer is as much a mental crutch as a physical one. They are both crucial to a fighters make-up. As regards Carl, I got the impression his pre-fight preparation had been lacking for the Garcia fight. Someone posted here, I think, they they felt he’d overdone the physical work and tired out. Maybe, but I felt he lacked a clear game plan, was possibly complacent and got out due to experience and survival instincts. Not sure how much I’d pin that on the coach, but it may be that the relationship needs time and that stuff still needs to be ironed out.

walshb

I think he just met a decent and skilled and big opponent. Sometimes people look for reasons as to why they "under-performed," when in reality they did not. Boxing is so intimate that sometimes you can be on very good form and doing your best, but the other man makes it that you have it tough.

But, of course, trainer/coaches can be important for all boxers: New, developed and veterans. Adaptability (particularly for aging and past if prime boxers) being why a good coach can always be an asset. They see things, implement change and implement solutions, allowing aging boxers maybe perform at a good level that bit longer.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks is not always true...

Joe_ Public

Again I’d argue a good coach isn’t merely an asset but essential. Maybe there’s the odd fighter assured and independent enough to go it alone, but more likely to be the know it all who thinks, almost certainly to his cost, that he has no more to learn.

I’d cite Bernard Dunne as an example. Dunne was smart enough to build a team around him, not just a coach/trainer, but a strength & condition guy as well and that chap Connolly who is one of the most respected sports motivators in the world. I thought early on that Dunne came across as a bit brash and arrogant but ultimately realized he had the maturity and humility to know he needed as much help as he could get. Knowing his limitations, would he have achieved as much without it? I think not anyway.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Again I’d argue a good coach isn’t merely an asset but essential. Maybe there’s the odd fighter assured and independent enough to go it alone, but more likely to be the know it all who thinks, almost certainly to his cost, that he has no more to learn.

I’d cite Bernard Dunne as an example. Dunne was smart enough to build a team around him, not just a coach/trainer, but a strength & condition guy as well and that chap Connolly who is one of the most respected sports motivators in the world. I thought early on that Dunne came across as a bit brash and arrogant but ultimately realized he had the maturity and humility to know he needed as much help as he could get. Knowing his limitations, would he have achieved as much without it? I think not anyway.

Dunne would have pretty much had the exact same record no matter what coach he had. He met very very basis opposition and beat them due to him being better. It's that simple.

His limitations were not really coach related. They were physically related. No chin and not really physically strong. That saw him exposed.

He had that one good win over Cordoba, but apart from this he got knocked clean out twice (in between) and then he retired.

No coach can really protect or safeguard a fighter from getting hit hard. That was Bernard's problem. Did not have the naturally soild chin nor the defense needed to avoid being hit. All the little tricks and tips would not prevent him getting exposed.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Dunne would have pretty much had the exact same record no matter what coach he had. He met very very basis opposition and beat them due to him being better. It's that simple.

His limitations were not really coach related. They were physically related. No chin and not really physically strong. That saw him exposed.

He had that one good win over Cordoba, but apart from this he got knocked clean out twice (in between) and then he retired.

No coach can really protect or safeguard a fighter from getting hit hard. That was Bernard's problem. Did not have the naturally soild chin nor the defense needed to avoid being hit. All the little tricks and tips would not prevent him getting exposed.

I take the point about his chin. Bernard’s limitations were well known and exposed. And the point about the paucity of the opposition is irrefutable too, as was pointed out many times during his career. Still, I’m not convinced he could have beaten Córdoba without the back up team he had, that took real shape after he got done by Martinez. I’m confident he’d acknowledge that much himself.