Tired of being the supportive husband for my wife's career

brutha

On the face of it, this could be considered a minor issue but it has grown over the years.

My wife's career has been a good bit more unstable than my career.
We both now live in the United States.

When we met 8 years ago, she was working as a post doc.
The post doc career path in academia is a bit of a mugs game.
You don't earn all that much and are hoping to make the jump to assistant professor some day down the line. I worked and still work as a software engineer. I'm fortunate enough to have a stable job that is well paid.

After 3 years of being together, there was a 3 year period where she was applying for assistant professor jobs everywhere and anywhere as her research funding was beginning to run out. This was continual low level drama. She would apply for a job in Sweden and ask me my thoughts about moving to Sweden. She unfortunately didn't land an assistant professor job and her funding ran out which meant she had to leave her academic job.

At this point she decided to make the switch to industry. She got a job after being unemployed for 6 weeks. Happy days! For the first time in 3 years, her job situation seemed drama free. Unfortunately, she got stuck with an absolute wagon of a boss who took a disliking to her. After nearly 2 years working there, she was put on a performance improvement plan (a cover your ass way to fire someone). She lost her job last week.

To be honest, as terrible as this sounds, I just feel a bit tired of being the supportive partner.
I know none of it is her fault. I could just as easily be facing the same issues.

But tbh I'm all out of empathy when it comes to her career. I just feel like "Oh my god, here we go again". There's been varying degrees of stress / drama related to her job for over half the time we've been together. Throughout it all, I've been in this role of being a stable provider. 80% of our savings are due to my earnings. Our future plans in terms of buying a house and having kids are only possible because of my job. Yet that's always felt like it was in the background because it didn't have the same level of drama / stress as her job.

I'm gearing up now for months of my wife looking for jobs and being worried and stressed about it. Is there a way to "refill" your empathy for a particular issue?

December2012

Does she acknowledge your suppprt?

What's her discipline

lifeandtimes

Why sorry to sound blunt but will you cop On?

This is your wife, through thick and thin.

She's applying for jobs in the field she wanted, she didbt get any, she then took a job for 2 years in an industry she didn't want in the firsr place and got stuck with a boss out to get her. It must have been an awful 2 years for her and now she's been sacked she's probably feeling awful.

How about instead of moaning about what might happen in the next few months, you sort out a nice dinner,a few drinks, make her feel good and then during your chat be optimistic and say "you know what? Tomorrow you and I are going to go job hunting for you in and area you want to be in, me and you like a team"

Be supportive of your wife man,she needs it now more than ever and if you don't want to be supportive then reevaluate your relationship with her

silverharp

December2012 wrote: »

Does she acknowledge your suppprt?

at the risk of being overly sarcastic, god no, she is a strong independent woman :pac:


OP, I dont see why you have to be overly supportive/empathetic at this stage, if she is looking for practical positions now then let her at it, she is bound to find something soon enough. i'd only say i'd be slow to agree to her deciding in the future to her wanting to go back to college or change career again yada yada. its very hard these days to get anywhere unless both people have self supporting jobs.

robbiezero

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Why sorry to sound blunt but will you cop On?

This is your wife, through thick and thin.

She's applying for jobs in the field she wanted, she didbt get any, she then took a job for 2 years in an industry she didn't want in the firsr place and got stuck with a boss out to get her. It must have been an awful 2 years for her and now she's been sacked she's probably feeling awful.

How about instead of moaning about what might happen in the next few months, you sort out a nice dinner,a few drinks, make her feel good and then during your chat be optimistic and say "you know what? Tomorrow you and I are going to go job hunting for you in and area you want to be in, me and you like a team"

Be supportive of your wife man,she needs it now more than ever and if you don't want to be supportive then reevaluate your relationship with her

If he has had 8 years of drama/stress, he is entitled to feel tired and worn out from it and I don't see much use in the advice telling him to become a character out of a Walt Disney film.

Is she a bit of a drama queen in general OP?
Seems very unlucky that her one job in industry that the boss took a disliking to her.

woodchuck

There is a big difference between someone being genuinely stressed about a situation and created unnecessary drama. I think for your own sanity you need to learn to recognise the difference between the two. Be supportive when she's stressed, but take a step back when she's creating drama.

lazybones32

Empathy is not a virtue so don't waste your time with it.
Time for you to be a source of common-sense and reality. Money is needed to maintain healthy life and comfortable living. You don't exist to financially support her 'dream' of being a whatever it is she wants to be/do.
Moving from USA to Sweden just so she can have a job? Have you any say (or spine) in the matter, or are you a 'yes, dear' participant?

Icepick

silverharp wrote: »

its very hard these days to get anywhere unless both people have self supporting jobs.

Unless you actually have the right priorities in your life.

woodchuck

lazybones32 wrote: »

Empathy is not a virtue so don't waste your time with it.
Time for you to be a source of common-sense and reality. Money is needed to maintain healthy life and comfortable living. You don't exist to financially support her 'dream' of being a whatever it is she wants to be/do.
Moving from USA to Sweden just so she can have a job? Have you any say (or spine) in the matter, or are you a 'yes, dear' participant?

It's not unusual at all for academics to move countries to secure employment in their area of research. People work in such niche areas that they don't always have a choice. It's a moot point now though, as she has gotten out of academia and went into industry. Obviously the most recent job hasn't panned out for her, but there is no indication from the OP that she is just chasing some pie-in-the-sky dream job.

I'm sure she's well aware that she's a financial drain on the OP. She's looking for work though, so what more can you expect from her?

sbsquarepants

Am I reading this right - she was once unemployed for 6 weeks in your 8 years, together and now she's unlucky enough to be unemployed again.....for a week?

You seem to be looking at this more like a business deal than a marriage. 80% of "our" savings are actually mine! You sound quite selfish to be honest.

The way I'd look at it is, just be thankful that 1 of you has a steady, decent paying job. It's not as if she's burning through your money while contributing jack shít and refusing lower herself to a real job while trying to break into showbiz.

Give the girl a break ffs!

Labcoats and Running Shoes

OP, I'm like your wife. I'm on my second post-doc (2.5 years post-phd). It's tough. I never wanted to go the academia route because I know how difficult it is. You're constantly stressed looking for lectureship positions, most are contract, you're constantly applying for funding, trying to publish (or perish) and at the end of the day you have to go where the money is and yes, that could mean moving country. When I was finishing my PhD I applied for everything under the sun, both academic post-docs and industry based positions, and I applied everywhere to maximize my chances of getting a job. At the end of this contract (July), I'll be in the same position.

It sounds like your wife did well to secure a job in industry so quickly after her funding ran out AND, she stuck it out for 2 years despite her boss taking issue with her. I know that's not easy being in that position and I know it's not easy on your loved ones when there's uncertainty hanging over you. But I think you need to cut her some slack. It sounds like she's done really well at both finding employment and (for the most part) staying employed and now that she has some industrial experience behind her she'll be more appealing to other companies.

It sounds like you're taking on her stress and it's not helping either of you. Perhaps come up with a list of places you would be willing to move (if any), and have an open and honest discussion with her about it. When I was applying for post-docs, my partner at the time sat down with me and told me all of the places she would be willing to live. It gave me 7 or 8 countries to search in and the plan was for me to find a job and for her to follow me over since she was already working here. That could be an option for you should she find employment in another country. Best of luck to you both, research is really much tougher than people think!

bucketybuck

I think that its perfectly rational that after so many years a person starts to feel a little drained dealing with anothers struggles. Especially when those struggles have their root in their own choices as opposed to dealing with disability or some other unasked for problem.

Note that the OP doesn't ask for a way out, instead he asked for ways to cope better with his feelings, its a perfectly reasonable thing to ask.

I imagine the devil is in the detail here. The wife has lost her job but it doesn't sound like the OP believes she was much at fault, so as long as she is getting out and searching for work then what more can she do? If the OP can see that she is doing her very best then he just needs to take a deep breath and continue giving as much support as he can, because even now things could be a lot worse.

The real trouble is if she wants to keep trying for that post doc role somewhere, to drag the OP to another country again and to continue this saga for another 4 years. After 8 years there is nothing wrong with wanting to settle down and plant some roots so I can see why it would be tiring to think about going through the same old rigmarole yet again.

qwerty13

I would really struggle to find myself being endlessly supportive too. 8 years is a long time.

What does your wife want, long term? If sounds as though she just wants to relentlessly pursue her career until she gets what she wants, no matter what the financial cost and location.

However, did you not discuss this before you got married, ie putting down roots, when to have stable jobs, whether you would be happy to move country, how long you’d both be happy with her following her dream (and whether you had dreams you wanted to follow)?

I think it’s time to have a big talk, and set a time limit to it. Personally, by the it hit 10 years, I’d be done. That’s a decade to indulge your partner. I know she’s working hard, but what exactly is she working hard for? Clearly not your joint future. Hell, if I had a supportive partner like you, I’d be off doing my masters etc in literature, instead of an admin job. Well actually I wouldn’t, because I don’t think that’s realistic or fair.

She’s had 8 years of her dream, it’s not working out, you are financing the long term security (not sure re day to day money). There comes a time to acknowledge that her dream is going nowhere. Personally, I’d give it 2 years more and put a known limit on it. I’d also wonder how much of a ‘wagon’ her boss was in a job she clearly didn’t want to do in the first place.

Time for talks OP

jimmycrackcorm

brutha wrote:

Our future plans in terms of buying a house and having kids are only possible because of my job. Yet that's always felt like it was in the background because it didn't have the same level of drama / stress as her job.

Why not consider the having kids part where they have a stay at home mom for at least their formative years.

She won't be unemployed forever, but you could consider it an opportunity to consider in the present circumstances.

Yellow pack crisps

It sounds like you follow her around making the compromises and supporting these things emotionally and financially. I can empathize with you in the fact that it’s hard to plan anything when you are obviously not on the same page. Sounds like you both need to make a decision. I don’t think neither of you are wrong but perhaps you both do not communicate things very clearly and you sound like you have built up a wall of resentment that is now turning to anger. That’s pretty normal if we are being honest as anyone would be worn down if they are the ones sacrificing their life on such flimsy lines of work that on the face of it gives no future place to build a life together. The old adage of sometimes love just ain’t enough rings true.

brutha

To answer a few points.

My wife's switch to industry is a permanent switch.
As far as I understand, once you leave the academic track you don't really go back to it.
Her last job was at a bio tech company. So her next job will be in one as well.

I don't actually care how long my wife is out of work for. What's draining is the continual discussion about jobs and concerns about it.
My wife gets quite down at times about her future job prospects. That's what draining my empathy. There's been years of this concern.

Big Bag of Chips

That's obviously her "thing". Most of us probably have something that we go on about a bit too much. Have you pointed it out to her that you can't listen to the same conversation over and over? It has now become a habit for her, and you need to try break that habit. Is there a career advisor she can see? A counsellor maybe where she can talk through her anxieties. Its not easy listening to the same thing repeated for the umpteenth time. But it's not easy for her to be living the same worries/thoughts/anxieties for the umpteenth time either. Try find her another outlet. Maybe even marriage counselling might be of benefit to you both to learn how to communicate with each other better. To focus more on positives than negatives, etc.

fits

I can understand where you are coming from but try to understand that you are privileged and lucky to have such secure employment and her being unemployed for a total of six weeks is not a lot. Research is a crappy career in terms of security and progression. Her first non academic job didn’t work out but hopefully next one will be better. Also if you are going to have a family, now might be a good time.

qwerty13

fits wrote: »

I can understand where you are coming from but try to understand that you are privileged ... Also if you are going to have a family, now might be a good time.

Sorry now, but he’s not privileged. At all. He pursued a career that rewarded financially. His wife *chose* to persue a career with no stability, easy progression, or tenure. So 8 years later, she is where she is. And looking to get her OH to give up his stability, and the financial rewards that keep their life going - and for what? For the chance that if they uproot, it *might* work out for her in another country?! That’s a hell of a sacrifice to ask him to make: his life, his career, their joint financial stability, their living environment. And for what return?

To my mind, they are in a really bad place to bring kids into. No relationship stability, let alone financial stability.

fits

Read the OP again. The proposed move was in the past when she was still in academia. As for bad choices many of us made them. I had no idea when I embarked on a PhD in early 2000s that it would lead to such precarious work. My husband is also in a precarious line of work and we have carried each other as the need arose. And yes I do believe that anyone in secure employment these days is privileged and lucky.

qwerty13

fits wrote: »

Read the OP again ... My husband is also in a precarious line of work and we have carried each other as the need arose. And yes I do believe that anyone in secure employment these days is privileged and lucky.

I did read the OP. I guess my point is that he’s been the supportive one for the bones of a decade. That’s a long time.

You make a good point re carrying each other. When does this guy get to be the one being supported /carried. What if he has any dreams? Even dreams of not being the ‘carrying’ one?

It all seems very one sided to me, as it’s gone on so long, with no seeming plan. As I said in an early post, I’d sit down and have a serious talk, and agree a time limit on her non-realistic dream

fits

qwerty13 wrote: »

I’d sit down and have a serious talk, and agree a time limit on her non-realistic dream

What’s the non realistic dream? She is just looking for secure work.

Malayalam

Hmmm, now I wonder did my husband feel bad that he actually wholly supported me and our children as I was a stay at home mammy. He never seemed to mind, has seemed happy to call it a good life for us all, I am really glad he was not going around with a calculator. I'd say all the other women who didn't "work", but put everything into family life and being housewives are glad they were not assessed on percentages.

On a practical note OP, have a 15 minute rule for daily job talk, and then drop it. And don't be such a fecking bread head.

qwerty13

fits wrote: »

qwerty13 wrote: »

I’d sit down and have a serious talk, and agree a time limit on her non-realistic dream

What’s the non realistic dream? She is just looking for secure work.

I’m not trying to argue. I’m just saying that the bones of a decade is long time for one partner to fund another’s dreams. Her dreams haven’t worked out. How long does her partner fund this. It doesn’t doubt like he has to directly fund her, but it sounds like he’s keeping the long-term stability of their funds going.

Surely there has to be a limit to this, where he’s the ‘sensible’ one, funding their future? How long can his wife go on, following an unrealistic financial dream? If she funds herself - both short term and long term - then off she pops. But she’s married. How long is her husband expected to carry her lack of contribution? Which isn’t about their kids, it’s all about her. I genuinely don’t think I’m being harsh in saying that 8 years of that is well more than enough.

qwerty13

fits wrote: »

qwerty13 wrote: »

I’d sit down and have a serious talk, and agree a time limit on her non-realistic dream

What’s the non realistic dream? She is just looking for secure work.

I’m not trying to argue. I’m just saying that the bones of a decade is long time for one partner to fund another’s dreams. Her dreams haven’t worked out. How long does her partner fund this. It doesn’t doubt like he has to directly fund her, but it sounds like he’s keeping the long-term stability of their funds going.

Surely there has to be a limit to this, where he’s the ‘sensible’ one, funding their future? How long can his wife go on, following an unrealistic financial dream? If she funds herself - both short term and long term - then off she pops. But she’s married. How long is her husband expected to carry her lack of contribution? Which isn’t about their kids, it’s all about her. I genuinely don’t think I’m being harsh in saying that 8 yeats of that is well man re that enough.

bee06

qwerty13 wrote: »

I’m not trying to argue. I’m just saying that the bones of a decade is long time for one partner to fund another’s dreams. Her dreams haven’t worked out. How long does her partner fund this. It doesn’t doubt like he has to directly fund her, but it sounds like he’s keeping the long-term stability of their funds going.

Surely there has to be a limit to this, where he’s the ‘sensible’ one, funding their future? How long can his wife go on, following an unrealistic financial dream? If she funds herself - both short term and long term - then off she pops. But she’s married. How long is her husband expected to carry her lack of contribution? Which isn’t about their kids, it’s all about her. I genuinely don’t think I’m being harsh in saying that 8 yeats of that is well man re that enough.

I really think you are misreading the OP’s posts. She gave up her “dream” of academia 3 years into the relationship and moved to industry for a stable career but her job wasn’t well paid. Unfortunately she ended up with a wagon of a boss but stuck it out for 5 years and has now been let go. The OP has already said she will be looking for another industry job and has made no mention that she would want to go back to academia or move again.

It sounds to me like he is sick of her complaining about work and the fact that she has a low paying job as if there are all these amazing paying jobs out there that she is turning down. I don’t get what his problem is to be honest.

fits

qwerty13 wrote: »

I’m not trying to argue. I’m just saying that the bones of a decade is long time for one partner to fund another’s dreams..

He’s not funding anything. She has bern out of work for six weeks. He is just tired of listening to her concerns about her career and security because he doesn’t understand what it’s like.

qwerty13

bee06 wrote: »

I really think you are misreading the OP’s posts. She gave up her “dream” of academia 3 years into the relationship and moved to industry for a stable career but her job wasn’t well paid. Unfortunately she ended up with a wagon of a boss but stuck it out for 5 years and has now been let go. The OP has already said she will be looking for another industry job and has made no mention that she would want to go back to academia or move again.

It sounds to me like he is sick of her complaining about work and the fact that she has a low paying job as if there are all these amazing paying jobs out there that she is turning down. I don’t get what his problem is to be honest.

Different perspectives, I guess! I honestly think she has had more than long enough to follow her dream, it’s not working out, and she needs to cop on to reality - and stop melting the ear off her partner about this. I can totally understand his problem, listening to a partner who has not had the eye on practical stuff at all, and is constantly moaning about her increasingly obviously unattainable dream, while he slogs away for a decade at their joint reality!

I would find that hard to take. Maybe they’re just not suited long term, I don’t know. I totally get where he’s coming from though, and I’d be near to breaking point.

fits

qwerty13 wrote: »

Different perspectives, I guess! I honestly think she has had more than long enough to follow her dream, it’s not working out, and she needs to cop on to reality - and stop melting the ear off her partner about this. I can totally understand his problem, listening to a partner who has not had the eye on practical stuff at all, and is constantly moaning about her increasingly obviously unattainable dream, while he slogs away for a decade at their joint reality!

I would find that hard to take. Maybe they’re just not suited long term, I don’t know. I totally get where he’s coming from though, and I’d be near to breaking point.

What’s this following her dream business. Read the OP again please.

dudara

For anyone who isn't familiar with academia, it's really hard in your post-doc years. It can be a struggle to secure future funding, to find that permanent position. It's the reason why I left, and it's reason why many others leave too. Despite your very best efforts, it may not work out. So I have a certain sympathy with your wife for that.

The PIP aspect is interesting. I would not normally expect for someone who is a high achiever (i.e. PhD qualified) to be in such a position. And despite what you might think, PIPs are often a last resort to get someone back on track in their career, and are usually approved by senior management and HR, not just the immediate manager. Why was your wife placed on a PIP? What issues in her job had she failed to address that resulted in this?

OP, I have some sympathy for you. It can be tough when your partner is feeling down, or is struggling. And from the sound of it, your wife has been dealing with career stress in way or another for many years. So no wonder you are tired too.

But can I ask, how well do the two of you communicate in general? How well do you share the strains & stresses with each other?