‪Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IX: The Last Jordi [****]

sydthebeat

Interested Observer wrote: »

I wonder which player Cullen is talking about here:

The selection of sob and jvdf....?

Squidgy Black

Former Former wrote: »

In that context, Lowe fell well short of the mark yesterday. Exeter would have skinned him alive.

I've no doubt he will improve greatly but right now he doesn't make the first 23.

Not even close for European games, he'd get absolutely destroyed defensively going by his showings to date. Great potential and an attacking threat but there's going to be a fair adjustment period to the style of play.

For me, yesterday was JGP best game in a Leinster jersey by a country mile. All of the complaints that have been against him, slow service at the ruck, poor kicking, awful decision making, none of that was present yesterday and he brought a tempo that really suited the backline we had.

durkadurka

So it appears that @johnnysexton is on Twitter

Stheno

durkadurka wrote: »

So it appears that @johnnysexton is on Twitter

Was he not before?

Buer

Former Former wrote: »

I think .ak was a bit OTT.

You reckon?!

can you say he wasn't the worst player on the pitch? Clearly was.

he had an awful game

directly responsible for leaking points down his channel

he was awful, he wouldn't make it on to an AIL team with a performance like that

If he wasn't heralded as one of the best left wings in the world I'd be happy enough to never see him in blue jersey again

Lowe was poison today

Just a little over the top. I think I'm pretty harsh on wingers regularly and have no trouble sticking the boot in but it's silly particularly when he looked pretty decent in attack. Not a good overall showing from him and that's about the extent of it. Saying he wouldn't make it onto an AIL team based on it or he was the worst player from 46 is just silly stuff.

The funny thing is, when I watch it again, he couldn't have done much else for Conway's second try (was very poor for the first though). Reid was stood up and burned by Zebo. Lowe could stay out on Conway which would have meant Zebo likely to get over or bite in which led to Conway being released. Lowe only planted his feet and stopped drifting onto Conway when Zebo had gotten outside of Reid.

Reid deserves a lot more criticism for that. He was one on one and, whilst there's no shame in being beaten by Simon Zebo, I'm not sure he even got a finger on him.

prawnsambo

Stheno wrote: »

Was he not before?

Nope.

awec

durkadurka wrote: »

So it appears that @johnnysexton is on Twitter

In twilight years, needs those followers to be able to advertise whatever’s he’s going to be selling us all during retirement.

Interested Observer

Here's the moments before Conway's first try, we can see where James 'Poison' Lowe is positioned, could the forum intelligentsia please explain what he should be doing instead?

Pass released from Murray, Tracy and Toner are possibly too close to the ruck and due to the fact they're lumbering forwards they're basically out of the picture. ROL is marking Scannell, Lowe is on Zebo, Conway is out much wider out of shot



Lowe possibly bites up a bit too hard here but he is now covering 15m of pitch that contains Conway and Zebo. ROL is completely committed to Scannell and is taken out of the picture. If he stays wide then the ball goes to Zebo who has a massive corridor to stroll through. He does what you're taught to do at U12 level and stays on his man. Worth noting that the pass from Scannell is absolutely exceptional, really high quality.

D14Rugby

Interested Observer wrote: »

Here's the moments before Conway's first try, we can see where James 'Poison' Lowe is positioned, could the forum intelligentsia please explain what he should be doing instead?

Pass released from Murray, Tracy and Toner are possibly too close to the ruck and due to the fact they're lumbering forwards they're basically out of the picture. ROL is marking Scannell, Lowe is on Zebo, Conway is out much wider out of shot



Lowe possibly bites up a bit too hard here but he is now covering 15m of pitch that contains Conway and Zebo. ROL is completely committed to Scannell and is taken out of the picture. If he stays wide then the ball goes to Zebo who has a massive corridor to stroll through. He does what you're taught to do at U12 level and stays on his man. Worth noting that the pass from Scannell is absolutely exceptional, really high quality.

The ideal scenario there would be since conan(?) is in pillar then Tracey would have the inside option off Scannell, Toner would have Scannell, ROL would have Zebo and Lowe could step out a bit more towards Conway and therefore be in a better position to tackle him.
With how it unfolded though Lowes gone for the old "if they can beat us outside fair play but they're not going through the middle" option which is fair enough. If he moves any sooner the short pass to Zebo is on and he's through so not much different he could really do once ROL takes Scannell instead of Toner.

irishbucsfan

I can’t wait to see Poison again personally. A Boxing Day derby is nowhere near enough for me to reverse the opinion i built of him while watching him play lower hemisphere rugby

Interested Observer

D14Rugby wrote: »

The ideal scenario there would be since conan(?) is in pillar then Tracey would have the inside option off Scannell, Toner would have Scannell, ROL would have Zebo and Lowe could step out a bit more towards Conway and therefore be in a better position to tackle him.
With how it unfolded though Lowes gone for the old "if they can beat us outside fair play but they're not going through the middle" option which is fair enough. If he moves any sooner the short pass to Zebo is on and he's through so not much different he could really do once ROL takes Scannell instead of Toner.

Indeed, the whole defensive line is much too narrow. It's where the try is conceded.

BoardsMember

Interested Observer wrote: »

Indeed, the whole defensive line is much too narrow. It's where the try is conceded.

To give this try concession as an example of how poor Lowe is defensively is laughable, shows zero understanding of the situstion. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

connemara man

BoardsMember wrote: »

To give this try concession as an example of how poor Lowe is defensively is laughable, shows zero understanding of the situstion. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

The outside man should be calling that out which would have been Lowe in that situation

Former Former

Ah lads. As much as .ak was excessive, trying to say Lowe wasn't at fault there is swinging completely the opposite direction. He bites in AND he shoots up, so that Conway has acres of space and Scannell can actually pass it behind Lowe's back.

That's absolutely mental. You can't do that.

molloyjh

Tracy and Toners positioning there gives Munster a 3 on 2 and takes both of them out of the equation entirely. ROL and Lowe needed to decide whether to cut off the outside channels by pushing up quickly or standing off and drifting. But the latter means that all Munster need to do is fix and pass. Shooting up puts pressure on the first receiver to make a decision and execute the most difficult of the options available. Which Scannell did very well. At the end of the day you can't have a situation where half of your defenders on one side of the ruck get taken out off the first pass like that. It leaves everyone else outside them exposed.

Watched the match back there and at a guess I'd say Strauss tore his quad. He was up and in the defensive line after having hurt himself so I'd hope it's not too serious.

Squidgy Black

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Watched the match back there and at a guess I'd say Strauss tore his quad. He was up and in the defensive line after having hurt himself so I'd hope it's not too serious.

We could do with having him around next season if the rumours about Cronin are true, a long layoff might lead to him hanging up his boots though he's had an awful run of injuries the last couple of seasons.

Former Former

Just finished watching it back. So many positives that bickering over Lowe seems vaguely ridiculous.

Henshaw was incredible. I know people say he's wasted at 12 but I totally disagree.

Tracy hasn't really been mentioned but after his wobbles against Exeter, a 100% success from touch against Munster is some rebound.

Toner was everywhere.

Murphy is going to be a huge loss. It's a real shame that he's leaving.

Should be able to make 7 or 8 changes for Connacht and still be confident of a win.

thomond2006

What happened to Strauss last night? I feel awful for him. He's been riddled with injuries in the last while.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Tracy and Toners positioning there gives Munster a 3 on 2 and takes both of them out of the equation entirely.

They're completely correct to be where they are, the basic building blocks of any defense are pillar, A and B in touching distance. Both of the defenders outside were very naive where they should have pushed out and trusted Toner to cover the first receiver.

But here, we won in Thomond Park so it doesn't actually matter and everyone should forget about it and we should just believe it won't ever happen again. We're all going to heaven!

Bridge93

PP have the handicap -14 for the Connacht game. Wouldn't want to put a handicap on it until the teams are announced

arsebiscuits1

thomond2006 wrote: »

What happened to Strauss last night? I feel awful for him. He's been riddled with injuries in the last while.

Press release said it was his back (even though stadium announcer said HIA)

Haven't given it a proper look back but he was absolutely smashed out of an attempted jackal when he was low and he didn't look right after.

I don't know what you can do to your back where you need to be carted off but can place yourself on the buggy (but I know very little about anatomy and injuries)

He defo didn't do a lower limb injury as he wasn't limping onto the buggy and he wasn't holding a shoulder or elbow. He sat kid of one sided. It was odd

prawnsambo

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Press release said it was his back (even though stadium announcer said HIA)

Haven't given it a proper look back but he was absolutely smashed out of an attempted jackal when he was low and he didn't look right after.

I don't know what you can do to your back where you need to be carted off but can place yourself on the buggy (but I know very little about anatomy and injuries)

He defo didn't do a lower limb injury as he wasn't limping onto the buggy and he wasn't holding a shoulder or elbow. He sat kid of one sided. It was odd

Possibly lower back and to one side which is what can make you hunch over to that side like he did. Certainly looked in pain, but it's very hard to know with those kinds of injuries how long it could take.

Clegg

Henshaw has really shown his worth over the last month. His work in defence is top notch and If you run at him you're not making metres. He shuts down attacks before they even begin. We've had three huge games this month and he's been great in all 3.

dub_skav

All the moaning about Lowe is interesting. I've noticed for a while that Leinster seem to have changed their system with overloaded pressure at the breakdown and a hard push from wide players. By design it seems to leave the winger exposed.
Now I'm just (like us all) guessing and don't know their actual instructions but having Isa there would mask an awful lot and maybe Lowe just wasn't used to it, or indeed maybe he did exactly what he was told to.

None of us can know but I look forward to seeing him again

prawnsambo

Clegg wrote: »

Henshaw has really shown his worth over the last month. His work in defence is top notch and If you run at him you're not making metres. He shuts down attacks before they even begin. We've had three huge games this month and he's been great in all 3.

Yeah. Made a massive amount of tackles: 20, missed 2 against Munster, second only to Toner: 22, missed 1. Next best was Jordi Murphy with 17, none missed.

stephen_n

Wonder who will partner Fardy against Connacht, with Ryan possibly out, we are short there. Especially considering Mick Kearney has evidently forgotten how to play rugby. Is Moloney fit yet?

irishfan9

Molony is fit.

irishbucsfan

Takes a little longer for the bigger guys to get up to full speed. But playing against Connacht could definitely be an option, I assume Ryan is out again.

prawnsambo

dub_skav wrote: »

All the moaning about Lowe is interesting. I've noticed for a while that Leinster seem to have changed their system with overloaded pressure at the breakdown and a hard push from wide players. By design it seems to leave the winger exposed.
Now I'm just (like us all) guessing and don't know their actual instructions but having Isa there would mask an awful lot and maybe Lowe just wasn't used to it, or indeed maybe he did exactly what he was told to.

None of us can know but I look forward to seeing him again

I'd say a lot depends on the situation. Close to the line, a hard press is probably too dangerous; at least in the wider channels. In any event, there are two ways of beating it: A dink over the top or a skip pass to clear the rushing defenders and get the ball wide quickly. That's what Scannell did and it worked. Close to the line, you hit the first receiver deep, or else drift. I would imagine it would be up to the players to decide which way to go. Split second decisions that require a bit of trust and familiarity that Lowe wouldn't have yet.