Pity bus users are not as motivated as cyclists

bigar

How easily overlooked is the fact that the reason there is a need for bus lanes at all is because there are too many private cars on the road.

Take drastic matters to reduce private car use in city centres to inconvenience them as much as possible.
Reducing this mode of traffic increases space for buses so they can move faster and more effectively. In turn, this will convince people that public transport is a good way to get into town and start using it more.

As long as policy makers are placing the car on top, we will never see a change.

brokenarms

There is no room in Dublin for segregated cycle lanes. I wish there was.
Cycles are best kept in bus lanes.. At least they are sharing the space with pro drivers and not every tom dick and harry with a b licence. I do know there are a few exceptions to this, but for the most part, bus drivers look after cycles. I would rather have 100 cycles than 100 extra cars..

Cycles can be a pain in the arse when the same one keeps leap frogging the bus. And stopping the bus from getting up to the speed limit. If a bus could get away from the leap frogger, the bus could get so far ahead, the cycle will not catch up again.
If there was some solution to this, things could improve. Either giving bus or bike priority by law.
I know there are some on here how may well be able to keep a good average speed up, but what about old Dorris cycling along at 5kph. Thats the cycles that I find is the big hold up. Fit cyclist get away quick and disappear into the distance. Not the problem.

end of the road

cyclists should not be in the bus lanes. the bus lanes should be for busses only. if there is no room for dedicated cycle lanes that's unfortunate but the bus lanes should not be used as an alternative in my view. in my experience cycling and busses are just not compatible within the same lanes. i would wager that bus users are in the majority between the to so their needs should be catered to. then later on we could maybe consider elevated cycle lanes. but for now the bus users should be prioritised and measures to discourage cars from the city implemented.

Danjamin1

end of the road wrote: »

cyclists should not be in the bus lanes. the bus lanes should be for busses only. if there is no room for dedicated cycle lanes that's unfortunate but the bus lanes should not be used as an alternative in my view. in my experience cycling and busses are just not compatible within the same lanes. i would wager that bus users are in the majority between the to so their needs should be catered to. then later on we could maybe consider elevated cycle lanes. but for now the bus users should be prioritised and measures to discourage cars from the city implemented.

I'd disagree with that, there's a reasonably healthy respect between most cyclists & bus drivers. Most cyclists are capable of an average speed greater than 15km/h, which I believe is the average speed of a cross city bus. I've personally been held up by buses more often than I've held them up on my bike. But I don't complain about that because it's only a minor inconvenience. I'd personally rather be in the bus lane with buses than on a segregated cycle lane that overlaps a bus stop.

Buses are far more likely to be held up by the queues of private cars sitting in the bus lane because they can't be bothered following the rules. So why is it always cyclists that people have an issue with? I'm not saying cyclists are perfect, there's plenty of dopes out there but that's not exclusive to cyclists. I really think people have their priorities wrong when it comes to this issue.

LeinsterDub

brokenarms wrote: »

There is no room in Dublin for segregated cycle lanes. I wish there was.

There is plenty of room in lots of places. Space on the carriage way will need to be given over to bikes, parking spaces lost, in places a few trees will need to removed and grass verges in others, in others wide paths would have to be made smaller.

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

cyclists should not be in the bus lanes. the bus lanes should be for busses only. if there is no room for dedicated cycle lanes that's unfortunate but the bus lanes should not be used as an alternative in my view. in my experience cycling and busses are just not compatible within the same lanes. i would wager that bus users are in the majority between the to so their needs should be catered to. then later on we could maybe consider elevated cycle lanes. but for now the bus users should be prioritised and measures to discourage cars from the city implemented.

Isn't funny you're here arguing the needs of the many here when it suits your agenda. In other places you've argued the exact oppositem

Dyr

LeinsterDub wrote: »

There is plenty of room in lots of places. Space on the carriage way will need to be given over to bikes, parking spaces lost, in places a few trees will need to removed and grass verges in others, in others wide paths would have to be made smaller.

So basically screw the pedestrians over for space...again

monument

Bambi wrote: »

So basically screw the pedestrians over for space...again

Are you trying to claim pedestrians mainly walk on carriageways, car parking spaces and grass verges?

LeinsterDub

Bambi wrote: »

So basically screw the pedestrians over for space...again

Nope. In places such as the Finglas Road there is plenty of space. DCC have already painted on one of their pretend cycle lanes there. What should happen is some of the grass is removed and the cycle lane becomes segregated and the junctions are fixed. There is plenty of room to walk.

blondeonblonde

Boulevardier wrote: »

Let us not forget that a bus may have over 80 people aboard trying to get to work, as against a small handful of cyclists.

If you could not cycle (and I don't see why that is), why not switch to the bus instead of the car?

In any event, I agree that most cyclists are reasonable. Nevertheless if cyclists want segregated lanes, then I think bus users deserve the same.

Do you honestly think cyclists want to share lanes with a 10 tonne vehicle constantly pulling in front of them to leave off passengers?! Get real. Cars in the bus lane are much more likely to hold up buses. Try cycling up the north or south quays in Dublin some time to see how intimidating and frightening it can be to have a huge vehicle hurtling past with a clearance of less than a metre... It's not for the faint hearted.
My wife would love to be able to cycle to work but is put off by the danger of sharing the road with vehicles that view cyclists as an obstruction as they accelerate to the next set of traffic lights. I'm sure there are many others of the same view.

monument

brokenarms wrote: »

There is no room in Dublin for segregated cycle lanes. I wish there was.
Cycles are best kept in bus lanes.. At least they are sharing the space with pro drivers and not every tom dick and harry with a b licence. I do know there are a few exceptions to this, but for the most part, bus drivers look after cycles. I would rather have 100 cycles than 100 extra cars..

Cycles can be a pain in the arse when the same one keeps leap frogging the bus. And stopping the bus from getting up to the speed limit. If a bus could get away from the leap frogger, the bus could get so far ahead, the cycle will not catch up again.
If there was some solution to this, things could improve. Either giving bus or bike priority by law.
I know there are some on here how may well be able to keep a good average speed up, but what about old Dorris cycling along at 5kph. Thats the cycles that I find is the big hold up. Fit cyclist get away quick and disappear into the distance. Not the problem.

There’s tons of space to be reallocated to cycling.

The key bit is that it’s reallocated — that’s what happened and is still happening in The Netherlands and elsewhere.

Stephen15

brokenarms wrote: »

There is no room in Dublin for segregated cycle lanes. I wish there was.
Cycles are best kept in bus lanes.. At least they are sharing the space with pro drivers and not every tom dick and harry with a b licence. I do know there are a few exceptions to this, but for the most part, bus drivers look after cycles. I would rather have 100 cycles than 100 extra cars..

Cycles can be a pain in the arse when the same one keeps leap frogging the bus. And stopping the bus from getting up to the speed limit. If a bus could get away from the leap frogger, the bus could get so far ahead, the cycle will not catch up again.
If there was some solution to this, things could improve. Either giving bus or bike priority by law.
I know there are some on here how may well be able to keep a good average speed up, but what about old Dorris cycling along at 5kph. Thats the cycles that I find is the big hold up. Fit cyclist get away quick and disappear into the distance. Not the problem.

Get rid of cars in the cc and general traffic lanes could be turned into cycle lanes leaving buses and taxis as the only vehicles within the city centre.

Unfortunately our inept City Council want to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds by thinking they can benefit from having city thats public transport, cycling and pedestrian friendly aswell as keeping the benefits from having parking charges and car park owners paying rates.

I was on a 145 one day there a couple of months ago up near Donnybrook Depot there a few months ago and there was a cyclist cycling right in the middle of the bus lane even though there was a perfectly adequate cycle right beside him.

LeinsterDub

Stephen15 wrote: »

I was on a 145 one day there a couple of months ago up near Donnybrook Depot there a few months ago and there was a cyclist cycling right in the middle of the bus lane even though there was a perfectly adequate cycle right beside him.

And? We've all got stories like this about every form of transport. Sure a few weeks ago a woman was arrested for walking in front of the Luas.

bk

Boulevardier wrote: »

What happens to the buses in that situation? Do they lose priority over general traffic? If so, I would be very unhappy.

They use the normal road with cars.

Clearly this is a temporary measure, while works are done on one particular street, obviously it doesn't happen across the whole city.

end of the road wrote: »

agreed, especially as it's likely bus users and even pedestrians, would be in greater numbers then cyclists.

And you would be horribly wrong!

Cycling is by far the highest mode of transport in Amsterdam. 40% mode share. All public transport, which also includes many tram lines and Metros is just 29%

So it goes to reason that cyclists and cycling infrastructure is priority number one there.

You should take a trip to Amsterdam, it is a real eye opener, buses are hardly used their at all, but bikes are everywhere.

But the overall point is that the reason so many people feel safe enough to cycle their, is because the cycling infrastructure is so good there and they truly are given priority.

jive

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And? We've all got stories like this about every form of transport. Sure a few weeks ago a woman was arrested for walking in front of the Luas.

Not to mention the fact that the cycle lane leading up to and beside donnybrook depot is a disgrace (city bound) and not 'adequate' by any stretch of the imagination.

bk

brokenarms wrote: »

There is no room in Dublin for segregated cycle lanes. I wish there was.

I disagree, go to Amsterdam and you will see.

Streets that are just as narrow, if not even narrower then Dublin. Yet fully segregated cycle lanes everywhere.

And yes their are buses too, right in a separated road near them.

But you know what their is very little of, cars. Almost non in the core city center.

Gives you plenty of space for high quality footpaths, cycle paths and bus/tram lanes.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

And you would be horribly wrong!

Cycling is by far the highest mode of transport in Amsterdam. 40% mode share. All public transport, which also includes many tram lines and Metros is just 29%

i was actually refering to dublin in my statement, apologies for the lack of clarity.

07Lapierre

brokenarms wrote: »

Cycles can be a pain in the arse when the same one keeps leap frogging the bus. And stopping the bus from getting up to the speed limit. If a bus could get away from the leap frogger, the bus could get so far ahead, the cycle will not catch up again.
If there was some solution to this, things could improve. Either giving bus or bike priority by law.
.

Whats stopping a 3 litre diesel bus, capable of travelling at 60kph from overtaking an old biddy cycling at 10kph?....its the CARS in the lane on the right hand side of the bus! :rolleyes:

bk

end of the road wrote: »

i was actually refering to dublin in my statement, apologies for the lack of clarity.

Ah, no bother at all, fair enough.

But that shows the chicken and egg problem we have here. Why aren't cyclists given priority like this here? Answer: because their is relatively so few cycling. Why are so few cycling? Answer: because they don't feel safe because they aren't given priority.

The thing is, if you go back to the 70's, Amsterdams cycling numbers were almost as low as Dublin are today. But they still made the concerted effort to build high quality cycling infrastructure and give those small few priority. Which of course in time lead to massive numbers cycling.

It was very much a case of built it and they will come.

I've no doubt that their are many people sitting in cars in congestion or squeezed onto an overpacked buses in Dublin, who would love to be cycling instead, if only it was safe to do so.

Danjamin1

Stephen15 wrote: »

Get rid of cars in the cc and general traffic lanes could be turned into cycle lanes leaving buses and taxis as the only vehicles within the city centre.

Unfortunately our inept City Council want to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds by thinking they can benefit from having city thats public transport, cycling and pedestrian friendly aswell as keeping the benefits from having parking charges and car park owners paying rates.

I was on a 145 one day there a couple of months ago up near Donnybrook Depot there a few months ago and there was a cyclist cycling right in the middle of the bus lane even though there was a perfectly adequate cycle right beside him.

That’s not an adequate cycle lane, it’s a disaster. I used to cycle that route daily and the cycle lane in in a poor state of disrepair

Stephen15

Danjamin1 wrote: »

That’s not an adequate cycle lane, it’s a disaster. I used to cycle that route daily and the cycle lane in in a poor state of disrepair

It looks fine to me its level with the footpath. I know I'd rather cycle on a cycle thats at level with the footpath than in a bus lane and risk being hit by a bus. Its surely safer to cycle in the cycle lane.

LeinsterDub

Stephen15 wrote: »

It looks fine to me its level with the footpath. I know I'd rather cycle on a cycle thats at level with the footpath than in a bus lane and risk being hit by a bus. Its surely safer to cycle in the cycle lane.

I've not cycled that particular route so I can't comment. But I've cycled the Finglas painted footpath/bike lane and it's a nightmare.

Now I use it as I'm only averaging about 15 kph but club cyclist who can easily do 25 kph plus all avoid it as there are buses unloading in the middle of it, the numerous blind junctions, you're dumped out on to the middle of the road numerous times. If I was capable of those sorts of speeds I'd stick to the road and wouldn't consider my presence a major delay for buses who will be stopping in less than 200 metres anyway.

magicbastarder

Stephen15 wrote: »

It looks fine to me its level with the footpath.

is that your sole criteria?

anyway, if it's this lane:
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3186104,-6.2315566,100m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

i can see an immediate issue. they've rather ironically stuck the left turning arrow for the motorised traffic, right beside where the bike path merges with the road - for bikes which will almost all be proceeding straight on. and this is about 25m from the corner. that's hideously badly designed - off road cycle paths are much more likely to mean cyclists are not on the motorist's mental radar, and that junction plonks them right back in just as the car is about to execute a left turn.

if i cycled that route, i'd stay in the bus lane.

cython

Stephen15 wrote: »

It looks fine to me its level with the footpath. I know I'd rather cycle on a cycle thats at level with the footpath than in a bus lane and risk being hit by a bus. Its surely safer to cycle in the cycle lane.

magicbastarder wrote: »

is that your sole criteria?

anyway, if it's this lane:
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3186104,-6.2315566,100m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

i can see an immediate issue. they've rather ironically stuck the left turning arrow for the motorised traffic, right beside where the bike path merges with the road - for bikes which will almost all be proceeding straight on. and this is about 25m from the corner. that's hideously badly designed - off road cycle paths are much more likely to mean cyclists are not on the motorist's mental radar, and that junction plonks them right back in just as the car is about to execute a left turn.

if i cycled that route, i'd stay in the bus lane.

Yep, nothing shoddy with this arrangement whatsoever either..... :rolleyes:

PS I realise Streetview is from 2014 and it may have changed since then, but this particular design flaw is endemic in Dublin cycling "infrastructure" all over the place.

Danjamin1

Stephen15 wrote: »

It looks fine to me its level with the footpath. I know I'd rather cycle on a cycle thats at level with the footpath than in a bus lane and risk being hit by a bus. Its surely safer to cycle in the cycle lane.

You don’t cycle do you

Stephen15

magicbastarder wrote: »

is that your sole criteria?

anyway, if it's this lane:
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3186104,-6.2315566,100m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

i can see an immediate issue. they've rather ironically stuck the left turning arrow for the motorised traffic, right beside where the bike path merges with the road - for bikes which will almost all be proceeding straight on. and this is about 25m from the corner. that's hideously badly designed - off road cycle paths are much more likely to mean cyclists are not on the motorist's mental radar, and that junction plonks them right back in just as the car is about to execute a left turn.

if i cycled that route, i'd stay in the bus lane.

Even in the bus lane you'd still get cars cutting across you to turn left. You know cars have to gI into the bus lane to left.

If your so concerned about your safety why don't get down off your bike and cross at the pedestrian crossing.

07Lapierre

Stephen15 wrote: »

Even in the bus lane you'd still get cars cutting across you to turn left. You know cars have to gI into the bus lane to left.

If your so concerned about your safety why don't get down off your bike and cross at the pedestrian crossing.

Cutting across is illegal...you can only turn "when safe to do so". If there is a cyclist in your way, you need to wait until it's safe to turn.

Wishbone Ash

Stephen15 wrote: »

Even in the bus lane you'd still get cars cutting across you to turn left. You know cars have to gI into the bus lane to left..

Most drivers will check the bus lane before moving across to make a left turn. Unfortunately, many won't check the cycle track before turning left as many motorists only think of yielding to motorised vehicles.

Stephe15 - you say the cycle track 'looks fine'. Have you ever cycled on it?

I use the bus lane there also as the cycle track was more than likely designed by a motorist.

magicbastarder

Stephen15 wrote: »

Even in the bus lane you'd still get cars cutting across you to turn left. You know cars have to gI into the bus lane to left.

you didn't happen to look at the layout before you said that? the lane ceases to be a bus lane 110m before the junction (i.e. 85m before the cyclists are forced into it). a car cutting *across* that lane that late would be executing a stupidly dangerous manouevre.

Stephen15

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Most drivers will check the bus lane before moving across to make a left turn. Unfortunately, many won't check the cycle track before turning left as many motorists only think of yielding to motorised vehicles.

Stephe15 - you say the cycle track 'looks fine'. Have you ever cycled on it?

I use the bus lane there also as the cycle track was more than likely designed by a motorist.

As I said if your so concerned about your safety dismount and use the pedestrian crossing I have cycled on similar stretches such the Whites Cross Junction and if your careful and look over shoulder you'll see if there is any cars turnine left.

I fail to see what cyclist lobbies you complain about the lack of cycle lanes and then don't use the ones that have been provided.