Do People Really Care About the Environment?

FTA69

I was watching David Attenborough the other day and according I him the planet is in a terrible state altogether. The oceans are wrecked and in the Caribbean there’s a slick of plastic bottles and bags miles long and wide, it was an awful sight. Similarly the amount of stuff going into landfill is depressing; nearly all those Costa-type coffee cups are totally non-recyclable and the vast majority of food waste could be disposed of sustainably but ends up f*cked in the bin. Over here in England the bag levy doesn’t apply to small shops so even buying a litre of milk gets put into a plastic bag.

Apparently if everyone made some small but consistent changes we’d be a lot better off and I’ve started eating less meat and sorting my rubbish but it’s hard going. The sheer amount of packaging we’re presented with is ridiculous; bloody individually wrapped biscuits and bananas sold on polystyrene trays wrapped in clingfilm etc. On top of that half of the time our communal recycling bin gets rejected because some dope has dumped a load of food waste or sh*tty nappies on top of it while the food waste bin had a mattress in it last time I checked.

Is environmentalism something you factor in your daily life?

TLDR: planet’s goosed bring your own bags.

Ubbquittious

Mainstream environmentalism is something that got put on the backburner for 6-10 years when the recession hit in 2008. Just goes to show no matter how bad the environment gets the economy remains the top priority.

In tigering times environmentalism resurfaces as people wanting to be seen with their shiny new Tesla or their A-rated home. So it's really vanity dressed up as environmentalism that becomes quite prevalent

batistuta9

I think the answer to your title question is no.

People are very myopic, they'll only start to care about something or do something about it when it's directly affecting then

branie2

I do

CalamariFritti

We don’t care. We will start caring when it really hits us but most likely it’ll be too late by then.

So we carry on thinking ah fk it I’ll be dead by then or something or someone will sort it. Or burying ourselves in denial altogether.

Well be our own extinction event. And the way we carry on we deserve it too.

WoollyRedHat

Our government are still way behind in legislation to combat what will be fatal climate changes down the line. They kick the can down the road and fail to legislate ( and then some poor animal gets stuck in the can!)

How can you expect people on a wholesale level to properly care about the environment when their own policy makers fail to properly address it. It needs to be ingrained as part of a culture, from an early age. Plus there is only so much the individual can do. It has to be a collective effort, without a consensus it is futile.

FTA69

I don't get why we can't legislate around packaging at least, it's preposterous really the way that the consumer ends up with mountains of wrapping and bags and sh*te and the onus gets placed on us then to dispose of it. Surely something like that is enforceable at a European level?

LaChatteGitane

branie2 wrote: »

I do

So do I, very much.

In general, humans only care about their own little bubble.

Dr Crayfish

People don't care, it's not in our nature to care about things that we can easily detach from and isn't affecting us at the moment.
You want to do your bit? Don't have kids. I really don't know why you'd want to add more people to what we're doing to the planet at the moment. It's a lost cause anyway.

Dr Crayfish

FTA69 wrote: »

I don't get why we can't legislate around packaging at least, it's preposterous really the way that the consumer ends up with mountains of wrapping and bags and sh*te and the onus gets placed on us then to dispose of it. Surely something like that is enforceable at a European level?

The morons in power are talking about some coffee cup levy. Why not put high taxes on the supermarkets etc who are producing all this unnecessary rubbish? It's the only way we could get them to reduce packaging or use biodegradable packaging.
I know there are some supermarkets in Berlin and London where there's no packaging, you just bring your own containers and products are weighed as you buy them. If they had the same in Dublin I'd certainly use it.

Mr. Incognito

We would have to drastically reduce our lifestyle and discard petroleum products, reduce usage of cars, heating, and plastics.

This is expensive and companies exist solely for profit

So no. We dont want to do that and the environment suffers as a consequence.

People are self absorbed and vain. Facebook, instagram, snapchat etc where there are thousands of vacous pictures of half naked people vying for attention showing me their home cooked carbonnara is a sympthom of that.

Dr Crayfish

And we all need to eat less meat but most people dont want to hear that

freshpopcorn

I don't think people care a lot about the environment. Take recycling for example most people I know recycle but the only reason they do it is because it's free or cheaper than sending your rubbish to the land fill.

topper75

There is too much emphasis on the carbon emissions climate nonsense by econuts. This lightbulb and that car. Pay more tax. Nonsense.

A far more pressing, immediate, and SOLVABLE problem is littering and dumping of non-biodegradable stuff.

Chief offender here is plastic.

It is fantastic - can be made thick or thin as you like into any shape and can hold the messiest of liquids and greases.

But it does not belong in our environment.

Another solvable but less media-sexy issue (not revenue raising either!) is habitat destruction. Are we going to keep going until all land is a giant farm? Not sustainable.

Dr Crayfish

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I don't think people care a lot about the environment. Take recycling for example most people I know recycle but the only reason they do it is because it's free or cheaper than sending your rubbish to the land fill.

Most people do use them but I'm pretty sure we just send it all to China where God only knows what happens to it there...

biZrb

I care a lot about this, but I feel the lengths I go to reduce plastic is being thwarted by others. But I still try as a small reduction is better than nothing.

There was a picture recently of a sea horse gripping a cotton bud that made me think about the plastic in them (https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/15/16314928/justin-hofman-seahorse-plastic-pollution-photography) I looked into it and a few retailers have paper stems instead of plastic ones in their cotton buds, so I buy those now.

I also watched a video of some marine biologists pulling a plastic straw that had lodged itself in a turtles nostril, it was so distressing, I used to always have a straw with my drink, but I don't now. I read recently Weatherspoons is going to stop putting straws in drinks, they'll only do it if a customer asks as the waste is enormous.

I stopped buying cleansers or products with microbeads in them as fish think they are food and it harms them.

I also don't put any plastic down the toilet as I'm afraid it'll end up in the ocean.

Dr Crayfish

topper75 wrote: »

Another solvable but less media-sexy issue (not revenue raising either!) is habitat destruction. Are we going to keep going until all land is a giant farm? Not sustainable.

We've already turned Ireland into a giant farm which is why I find it funny when you hear Irish people going on about the destruction of forests etc in other countries. We destroyed all our wilderness a long time ago.

Del2005

FTA69 wrote: »

I don't get why we can't legislate around packaging at least, it's preposterous really the way that the consumer ends up with mountains of wrapping and bags and sh*te and the onus gets placed on us then to dispose of it. Surely something like that is enforceable at a European level?

Because the shops are paying into REPAK so can produce as much packaging as they like. It's the biggest environmental scam in the country.


The reason why the environment is not on the agenda is because it'll take more than 5 years to get a result and no politician is going to do something that another politician will get the benefit of. Look how Ken Livingston's bike share scheme in London is known as Boris Bikes. Do you think that a politician who solves a major environmental issue and gets voted out because it costs a lot for no immediate benefit will risk there name being associated with a failure while the next politician gets the credit.

c_man

Some people don't, some people really do. These people are borderline ridiculous, their faith is built upon a) mankind being an evil plague on the planet, b) treatment of the Earth as the divine and c) hopelessness. Any bad is gleefully consumed and confirms the pillars, meanwhile the battle against the heretics must continue.

Climate difficulties are a problem sure, but a solvable one (and no not the solution of the other religion that states we must go to Mars to save ourselves).

TallGlass

Small steps. What would have been nice to see this year would have been an introduction of a scheme to bring your cans back for say 5c.

They should make it cheaper and an option. If you go somewhere to buy a product. Like a kettle for example, would you like the packaging with the kettle, it's 5€ more expensive or the same kettle in a stock bio degradable box.

StereoSound

Most people only care about money and sex. Thats the drive in the world imo. Feck the emissions and the ozone layer.... You won't be alive to see it collapse and by the time it does humanity will already have inhabitted Mars.

branie2

Al Gore also cares

seachto7

Would it be fair to say that people who drive 4X4 who don't need them for work or carrying stuff around, don't think or care about the environment?
Or are the new ones environmentally friendly?

Dr Crayfish

TallGlass wrote: »

Small steps. What would have been nice to see this year would have been an introduction of a scheme to bring your cans back for say 5c.

They should make it cheaper and an option. If you go somewhere to buy a product. Like a kettle for example, would you like the packaging with the kettle, it's 5€ more expensive or the same kettle in a stock bio degradable box.

It's not going to make a difference. For every can you recycle there will be 1000 new ones being produced. In order for things to improve environmentally, we would need to drastically reduce the population across the globe, and we would all need to consume less and have way less stuff, and fly less etc.
Do you really think that could ever work? There would always be some elite who'd still have all the stuff and options and that would lead to revolt etc. etc... See communism.
Our politicians only seem to be interested in growing the economy and making money, which in itself is bad for the environment. We're f*cked.

Del2005

TallGlass wrote: »

Small steps. What would have been nice to see this year would have been an introduction of a scheme to bring your cans back for say 5c.

They should make it cheaper and an option. If you go somewhere to buy a product. Like a kettle for example, would you like the packaging with the kettle, it's 5€ more expensive or the same kettle in a stock bio degradable box.

The last few items I've purchased have been in cardboard boxes with minimal plastic. Cardboard is easily recycled so dumping it, biodegradable, is a waste. Some ideas aren't good for the environment.

FTA69

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

The morons in power are talking about some coffee cup levy. Why not put high taxes on the supermarkets etc who are producing all this unnecessary rubbish? It's the only way we could get them to reduce packaging or use biodegradable packaging.
I know there are some supermarkets in Berlin and London where there's no packaging, you just bring your own containers and products are weighed as you buy them. If they had the same in Dublin I'd certainly use it.

Well as we've seen if a government takes action it can have an affect. Somebody earlier said people only recycle as it's free etc, well good. At least they're doing it and as a consequence of legislation and incentive we're dumping a lot less in landfill. Those coffee cups are a joke mate, billions of them ending up in the sea or landfill every year, like plastic bags that needs to be sorted.

I agree with you about the supermarkets too but I haven't seen any, only the usual conglomerates. The local market is what winds me up, spuds or bananas on polystyrene trays, enveloped in cling film and then stuffed into doubled plastic bags. I always want to support the local traders but that does wind me up.

Dr Crayfish

FTA69 wrote: »

Well as we've seen if a government takes action it can have an affect. Somebody earlier said people only recycle as it's free etc, well good. At least they're doing it and as a consequence of legislation and incentive we're dumping a lot less in landfill. Those coffee cups are a joke mate, billions of them ending up in the sea or landfill every year, like plastic bags that needs to be sorted.

I agree with you about the supermarkets too but I haven't seen any, only the usual conglomerates. The local market is what winds me up, spuds or bananas on polystyrene trays, enveloped in cling film and then stuffed into doubled plastic bags. I always want to support the local traders but that does wind me up.

If you're in London I used to buy from the corner shops where they have the veg in a bowl outside and they dump them into a bag for you. At least there was no packaging involved if you had your own bag!

With coffee cups, can't they just use some kind of cardboard/paper lid? Are the cups themselves made from plastic too?

razorblunt

Aye I break my balls sorting out my recycling every day only for Farmer Joe to dump into the stream at the back of farm.

Del2005

seachto7 wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that people who drive 4X4 who don't need them for work or carrying stuff around, don't think or care about the environment?
Or are the new ones environmentally friendly?

They are better for the environment than the person who scraps a functioning car for a new "green" car.

They are also better than the environmentally sound people who keep pets.
https://www.salon.com/2014/11/20/the_surprisingly_large_carbon_paw_print_of_your_beloved_pet_partner/

Grayson

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

The morons in power are talking about some coffee cup levy. Why not put high taxes on the supermarkets etc who are producing all this unnecessary rubbish? It's the only way we could get them to reduce packaging or use biodegradable packaging.
I know there are some supermarkets in Berlin and London where there's no packaging, you just bring your own containers and products are weighed as you buy them. If they had the same in Dublin I'd certainly use it.

To be fair there has been a massive drop in the number of plastic bags used since the introduction of the levee.

If it makes people carry around a reusable cup it could result in a lot less paper cups.

Grayson

Del2005 wrote: »

They are better for the environment than the person who scraps a functioning car for a new "green" car.

They are also better than the environmentally sound people who keep pets.
https://www.salon.com/2014/11/20/the_surprisingly_large_carbon_paw_print_of_your_beloved_pet_partner/

But they are worse than buying a smaller car or as you said, keeping their previous car or even if they are trading anyway buying an electric car.

Everytime I see someone driving a new SUV I think they mustn't give a fcuk about their kids. (Although that's not fair, they almost certainly care about their kids. Just for some reason they never consider the damage they do to the environment and the effect it will have on their kids future).

farmerwifelet

I remember ages ago seeing a guy who was using sugar to make "plastic" bottles completely degradable and a great use of a crop. He was looking to german drinks companies to buy his product as I don't think Irish companies were bothered.

They send all our recyclables to china on a ship. How much fuel is used for that?

If you "care" don't travel by air. stay at home. And as for the miracle of electric cars has anyone actually thought about how they are going to get rid of a giant car sized battery? Its not as though you can pop it in the little blue box in the supermarket.
Do people not realise that farmers are naturally environmentalists. if your field and land are what are making your money the sure as hell you will look after it as best you can. Problem is people don't understand land and make environmental projects that don't suit Irish land.

And crops take more nutrients from the land than growing grass for cattle. They also take more water and need more weedkillers so save the planet go eat a burger!

Dr Crayfish

farmerwifelet wrote: »

Do people not realise that farmers are naturally environmentalists. if your field and land are what are making your money the sure as hell you will look after it as best you can. Problem is people don't understand land and make environmental projects that don't suit Irish land.

And crops take more nutrients from the land than growing grass for cattle. They also take more water and need more weedkillers so save the planet go eat a burger!

Well they're taking up the space of natural woodland for starters, and how many idiot farmers have destroyed rivers with slurry etc?

TallGlass

And also, don't forget about the damage we don't see!

Cocaine production, dumping litres upon litres of acid into the rain forest and rivers. I'm sure other drug production is causing similar damage. Then green diesel been converted to clear diesel, the by products for the most part just dumped.

Del2005

Grayson wrote: »

To be fair there has been a massive drop in the number of plastic bags used since the introduction of the levee.

If it makes people carry around a reusable cup it could result in a lot less paper cups.

It's much easier to fold a bag into your pocket than carrying around a cup with liquid in it. Then there is the issue of water. Is it better to use water to repeatedly rinse the cup and then wash, people leaving the tap running while washing, or is there less energy to make a single use cup?

Dr Crayfish

Farmers, the saviour of the environment

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/hundreds-of-fish-killed-by-farm-slurry-in-tralee-435253.html

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/appeal-to-farmers-after-fish-kills-caused-by-silage-and-slurry-pollution-35985313.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/large-fish-kill-in-cork-river-due-to-suspected-slurry-spill-1.2898123

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/major-fish-kill-investigated-on-north-galway-river-1.2692635

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/farmer-convicted-for-fish-kill-through-slurry-contamination/

http://connachttribune.ie/farmer-facing-prosecution-over-fish-kill-in-river-909/

Del2005

Grayson wrote: »

But they are worse than buying a smaller car or as you said, keeping their previous car or even if they are trading anyway buying an electric car.

Everytime I see someone driving a new SUV I think they mustn't give a fcuk about their kids. (Although that's not fair, they almost certainly care about their kids. Just for some reason they never consider the damage they do to the environment and the effect it will have on their kids future).

Yes they could buy a smaller car, but the person with the pet dog is doing more harm. Why pick on the person driving a big car when the pet owner is doing more damage to the environment?

Dravokivich

Grayson wrote: »

But they are worse than buying a smaller car or as you said, keeping their previous car or even if they are trading anyway buying an electric car.

Everytime I see someone driving a new SUV I think they mustn't give a fcuk about their kids. (Although that's not fair, they almost certainly care about their kids. Just for some reason they never consider the damage they do to the environment and the effect it will have on their kids future).

Why just get a smaller car? I could have gotten a smaller car but it wouldn't be suitable.

Electric cars have extremely long wait times. Also, most people don't have somewhere to charge them. Why get on that line and uncertainty?

Dr Crayfish

Look owning any type of car isn't good for the planet. Electric or not. We all need to own less stuff. I know it's not practical for many not to own a car but that's just another reason why the situation is hopeless.

Ubbquittious

Grayson wrote: »

But they are worse than buying a smaller car or as you said, keeping their previous car or even if they are trading anyway buying an electric car.

Everytime I see someone driving a new SUV I think they mustn't give a fcuk about their kids. (Although that's not fair, they almost certainly care about their kids. Just for some reason they never consider the damage they do to the environment and the effect it will have on their kids future).

The difference between a SUV and a car these days isn't that much in most cases.

FTA69

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

If you're in London I used to buy from the corner shops where they have the veg in a bowl outside and they dump them into a bag for you. At least there was no packaging involved if you had your own bag!

With coffee cups, can't they just use some kind of cardboard/paper lid? Are the cups themselves made from plastic too?

Yeah the cups are lined with some water-tight film substance that makes the whole thing non-recyclable.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Dr Crayfish

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You live in America. I was there recently, the dependency on cars is shocking, and the size of the cars and engines and even the noise out of them is a whole other level compared to here. You may not have a choice in owning 2 cars but it's still unfeasible to think everyone should have the option of owning 2 cars.

Romantic Rose

I'm very conscious on being environmentally friendly in the last year in particular. I think we are killing ourselves with the way we are living these days. We live in such a chemical society. Everything is disposable and we are greedy.

Things like the chemicals and packaging from household items is polluting our water. Shampoos, toothpaste, mouthwash, floor cleaner, washing detergent. All going into our water system and it's making us sick big time.

There is no such thing as organic anymore, our world is so polluted.

We need to get real about the environment. 2 million coffee cups going into landfill in Ireland per day! About 3/4 of a billion per year! Crazy. Not to mention the packaging from crisps and chocolate bars etc etc.

When I go into shops these days, I think do I really need this thing because it's going to end up being incinerated or land filled eventually.

Everyone needs to play their part and be more environmentally friendly and conscious and cut down on excessive waste and packaging and greed where possible.

In the meantime I'm going to try to invent an alternative to plastic. There's mega bucks to be made there!

Dr Crayfish

Now that it's Christmas already for some reason... just have a look around at the amount of absolute garbage that is produced for this season. I refuse to take part in the Chriskindle nonsense at work because I can see the ridiculous rubbish bought in Tiger is still on everyone's desk, stuff no one wanted or needed. Christmas is a full on exercise in everything that's wrong with our species and consumption. We should be ashamed.

Romantic Rose

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Look owning any type of car isn't good for the planet. Electric or not. We all need to own less stuff. I know it's not practical for many not to own a car but that's just another reason why the situation is hopeless.

That's the point, we need to own less stuff!

I went to the Museum of Country Life in Mayo over the summer and I found it so fascinating the way people lived their lives in years gone by. They were so resourceful and made things from scratch from things growing around them. The amount of things they made from straw alone was incredible.

I know life was laborious and physical for them too.

We are very too reliant on man made items which will not decompose for thousands of years. Makes me sick how greedy we have become as people.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

freshpopcorn

Ubbquittious wrote: »

The difference between a SUV and a car these days isn't that much in most cases.

I always laugh when people talk about there jeep/SUV when all it is a hatchback on big wheels!

batistuta9

FTA69 wrote: »

I don't get why we can't legislate around packaging at least, it's preposterous really the way that the consumer ends up with mountains of wrapping and bags and sh*te and the onus gets placed on us then to dispose of it. Surely something like that is enforceable at a European level?

In Europe they leave the excess packaging in the shop. Pretty sure you can do that here as well though

They've these machines also. You pay a charge on bottles & get it back by recycling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLKmr0uVhWo

Romantic Rose

We will eventually run out of space on this planet for all our crap. What will we do then.

Dr Crayfish

batistuta9 wrote: »

In Europe they leave the excess packaging in the shop. Pretty sure you can do that here as well though

They've these machines also. You pay a charge on bottles & get it back by recycling

Often I leave the packaging in Dunnes, Lidl etc. They probably just f*ck it in a landfill after that though.