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Do People Really Care About the Environment?

FTA69

I was watching David Attenborough the other day and according I him the planet is in a terrible state altogether. The oceans are wrecked and in the Caribbean there’s a slick of plastic bottles and bags miles long and wide, it was an awful sight. Similarly the amount of stuff going into landfill is depressing; nearly all those Costa-type coffee cups are totally non-recyclable and the vast majority of food waste could be disposed of sustainably but ends up f*cked in the bin. Over here in England the bag levy doesn’t apply to small shops so even buying a litre of milk gets put into a plastic bag.

Apparently if everyone made some small but consistent changes we’d be a lot better off and I’ve started eating less meat and sorting my rubbish but it’s hard going. The sheer amount of packaging we’re presented with is ridiculous; bloody individually wrapped biscuits and bananas sold on polystyrene trays wrapped in clingfilm etc. On top of that half of the time our communal recycling bin gets rejected because some dope has dumped a load of food waste or sh*tty nappies on top of it while the food waste bin had a mattress in it last time I checked.

Is environmentalism something you factor in your daily life?

TLDR: planet’s goosed bring your own bags.

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farmerwifelet

I remember ages ago seeing a guy who was using sugar to make "plastic" bottles completely degradable and a great use of a crop. He was looking to german drinks companies to buy his product as I don't think Irish companies were bothered.

They send all our recyclables to china on a ship. How much fuel is used for that?

If you "care" don't travel by air. stay at home. And as for the miracle of electric cars has anyone actually thought about how they are going to get rid of a giant car sized battery? Its not as though you can pop it in the little blue box in the supermarket.
Do people not realise that farmers are naturally environmentalists. if your field and land are what are making your money the sure as hell you will look after it as best you can. Problem is people don't understand land and make environmental projects that don't suit Irish land.

And crops take more nutrients from the land than growing grass for cattle. They also take more water and need more weedkillers so save the planet go eat a burger!

Dr Crayfish

farmerwifelet wrote: »

Do people not realise that farmers are naturally environmentalists. if your field and land are what are making your money the sure as hell you will look after it as best you can. Problem is people don't understand land and make environmental projects that don't suit Irish land.

And crops take more nutrients from the land than growing grass for cattle. They also take more water and need more weedkillers so save the planet go eat a burger!

Well they're taking up the space of natural woodland for starters, and how many idiot farmers have destroyed rivers with slurry etc?

TallGlass

And also, don't forget about the damage we don't see!

Cocaine production, dumping litres upon litres of acid into the rain forest and rivers. I'm sure other drug production is causing similar damage. Then green diesel been converted to clear diesel, the by products for the most part just dumped.

Del2005

Grayson wrote: »

To be fair there has been a massive drop in the number of plastic bags used since the introduction of the levee.

If it makes people carry around a reusable cup it could result in a lot less paper cups.

It's much easier to fold a bag into your pocket than carrying around a cup with liquid in it. Then there is the issue of water. Is it better to use water to repeatedly rinse the cup and then wash, people leaving the tap running while washing, or is there less energy to make a single use cup?

Dr Crayfish

Farmers, the saviour of the environment

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/hundreds-of-fish-killed-by-farm-slurry-in-tralee-435253.html

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/appeal-to-farmers-after-fish-kills-caused-by-silage-and-slurry-pollution-35985313.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/large-fish-kill-in-cork-river-due-to-suspected-slurry-spill-1.2898123

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/major-fish-kill-investigated-on-north-galway-river-1.2692635

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/farmer-convicted-for-fish-kill-through-slurry-contamination/

http://connachttribune.ie/farmer-facing-prosecution-over-fish-kill-in-river-909/

Del2005

Grayson wrote: »

But they are worse than buying a smaller car or as you said, keeping their previous car or even if they are trading anyway buying an electric car.

Everytime I see someone driving a new SUV I think they mustn't give a fcuk about their kids. (Although that's not fair, they almost certainly care about their kids. Just for some reason they never consider the damage they do to the environment and the effect it will have on their kids future).

Yes they could buy a smaller car, but the person with the pet dog is doing more harm. Why pick on the person driving a big car when the pet owner is doing more damage to the environment?

Dravokivich

Grayson wrote: »

But they are worse than buying a smaller car or as you said, keeping their previous car or even if they are trading anyway buying an electric car.

Everytime I see someone driving a new SUV I think they mustn't give a fcuk about their kids. (Although that's not fair, they almost certainly care about their kids. Just for some reason they never consider the damage they do to the environment and the effect it will have on their kids future).

Why just get a smaller car? I could have gotten a smaller car but it wouldn't be suitable.

Electric cars have extremely long wait times. Also, most people don't have somewhere to charge them. Why get on that line and uncertainty?

Dr Crayfish

Look owning any type of car isn't good for the planet. Electric or not. We all need to own less stuff. I know it's not practical for many not to own a car but that's just another reason why the situation is hopeless.

Ubbquittious

Grayson wrote: »

But they are worse than buying a smaller car or as you said, keeping their previous car or even if they are trading anyway buying an electric car.

Everytime I see someone driving a new SUV I think they mustn't give a fcuk about their kids. (Although that's not fair, they almost certainly care about their kids. Just for some reason they never consider the damage they do to the environment and the effect it will have on their kids future).

The difference between a SUV and a car these days isn't that much in most cases.

FTA69

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

If you're in London I used to buy from the corner shops where they have the veg in a bowl outside and they dump them into a bag for you. At least there was no packaging involved if you had your own bag!

With coffee cups, can't they just use some kind of cardboard/paper lid? Are the cups themselves made from plastic too?

Yeah the cups are lined with some water-tight film substance that makes the whole thing non-recyclable.

Permabear

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Dr Crayfish

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You live in America. I was there recently, the dependency on cars is shocking, and the size of the cars and engines and even the noise out of them is a whole other level compared to here. You may not have a choice in owning 2 cars but it's still unfeasible to think everyone should have the option of owning 2 cars.

Romantic Rose

I'm very conscious on being environmentally friendly in the last year in particular. I think we are killing ourselves with the way we are living these days. We live in such a chemical society. Everything is disposable and we are greedy.

Things like the chemicals and packaging from household items is polluting our water. Shampoos, toothpaste, mouthwash, floor cleaner, washing detergent. All going into our water system and it's making us sick big time.

There is no such thing as organic anymore, our world is so polluted.

We need to get real about the environment. 2 million coffee cups going into landfill in Ireland per day! About 3/4 of a billion per year! Crazy. Not to mention the packaging from crisps and chocolate bars etc etc.

When I go into shops these days, I think do I really need this thing because it's going to end up being incinerated or land filled eventually.

Everyone needs to play their part and be more environmentally friendly and conscious and cut down on excessive waste and packaging and greed where possible.

In the meantime I'm going to try to invent an alternative to plastic. There's mega bucks to be made there!

Dr Crayfish

Now that it's Christmas already for some reason... just have a look around at the amount of absolute garbage that is produced for this season. I refuse to take part in the Chriskindle nonsense at work because I can see the ridiculous rubbish bought in Tiger is still on everyone's desk, stuff no one wanted or needed. Christmas is a full on exercise in everything that's wrong with our species and consumption. We should be ashamed.

Romantic Rose

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Look owning any type of car isn't good for the planet. Electric or not. We all need to own less stuff. I know it's not practical for many not to own a car but that's just another reason why the situation is hopeless.

That's the point, we need to own less stuff!

I went to the Museum of Country Life in Mayo over the summer and I found it so fascinating the way people lived their lives in years gone by. They were so resourceful and made things from scratch from things growing around them. The amount of things they made from straw alone was incredible.

I know life was laborious and physical for them too.

We are very too reliant on man made items which will not decompose for thousands of years. Makes me sick how greedy we have become as people.

Permabear

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freshpopcorn

Ubbquittious wrote: »

The difference between a SUV and a car these days isn't that much in most cases.

I always laugh when people talk about there jeep/SUV when all it is a hatchback on big wheels!

batistuta9

FTA69 wrote: »

I don't get why we can't legislate around packaging at least, it's preposterous really the way that the consumer ends up with mountains of wrapping and bags and sh*te and the onus gets placed on us then to dispose of it. Surely something like that is enforceable at a European level?

In Europe they leave the excess packaging in the shop. Pretty sure you can do that here as well though

They've these machines also. You pay a charge on bottles & get it back by recycling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLKmr0uVhWo

Romantic Rose

We will eventually run out of space on this planet for all our crap. What will we do then.

Dr Crayfish

batistuta9 wrote: »

In Europe they leave the excess packaging in the shop. Pretty sure you can do that here as well though

They've these machines also. You pay a charge on bottles & get it back by recycling

Often I leave the packaging in Dunnes, Lidl etc. They probably just f*ck it in a landfill after that though.

Dr Crayfish

Romantic Rose wrote: »

We will eventually run out of space on this planet for all our crap. What will we do then.

Wars, death, fascism...

flaneur

My view of it that different countries are going to need different solution to achieve eco-friendliness without necessarily making huge sacrifices to quality of life.

Ireland's development patterns aren't unique. We have a preference for lower density housing and more spread out quasi rural suburban development. That pattern is similar to a lot of small/mid scale US and Canadian cities, New Zealand, Australia and also to a lot of the UK and even France and Scandinavia.

The solution in those kinds of places is likely to be ultra-efficient cars and ultimately electric vehicles powered by mostly non CO2 producing green energy.

That doesn't mean that mass-transit doesn't have a role to play here. In Dublin, Cork and elsewhere there are plenty of examples where effective use of trams and trains would make a hell of a lot of sense. A big part of the problem here is that we haven't spent enough money on public transit or planned it into development which means that it's useless and unattractive. The prospect of sitting on an Irish bus on a cold winters' day with condensation running down the interior windows (they're very badly ventilated) is pretty grim. Likewise, the prospect of standing at a wind-swept bus stop in driving rain for a bus that often runs late or doesn't arrive reliably is very off-putting and this is why people who aren't on Luas, DART or commuter rail services tend be very car bound. Cork's outer suburbs are a prime example of that. The bus network's not very developed and people assume it doesn't work and then it gets lower traffic volumes and that spurs less investment - it's a vicious cycle.

Unless public transport is an attractive, efficient alternative to driving, people won't use it. It has to make some kind of economic and practical sense to them and I don't believe you will achieve this by just making car driving more expensive or parking harder to get with congestion charges and so on, as in Ireland in a lot of cases people simply don't have viable alternatives at present.

We could also do a lot more with Irish buildings and housing to improve efficiency. That would mean more comfortable houses and lower bill sand is a win-win for everyone if it's done right. I know people who've moved into a new-build Irish house that meets very high energy conservation standards and their bills are really low for heating. They're managing to keep very cozy on about €250-300 per year, which is brilliant for any family.

On recycling, we need to push a lot of the issues with that back to retailers and producers. I am getting fed up with the notion that I am supposed to somehow be punished for generating excessive packaging when the supermarkets insist on packing thing that I don't need packed - fruit in trays and plastic wraps, boxes inside other boxes, multipacks inside boxes etc etc.

We also have a major issue with ultra-cheap, rubbishy electronics and electrical goods that are being produced by near slave labour at almost below costs and last for ridiculously short times. Things that were durables like washing machines and fridges are ending up in landfill after a couple of years because they're being produced for insanely cheap prices with low quality components.
That e-waste stuff is not really being tackled and there's now an expectation that a washing machine costs €200 which is absolutely nuts.

I was talking to someone about this recently as they were moaning that their new washing machine was broken down after 2 years. They paid €249 for it. If you compare that to a 1970s or 80s washing machine, which probably would have lasted at least 10 years, you were paying prices that are equivalent to what you would pay for Miele nowadays - probably up around €1000 to 2000 in modern terms.

It would actually make more sense to have easy availability of credit to purchase better quality machines and spread the cost over time. As it stands it's just creating miserable low paid jobs in the far east and causing untold levels of pollution both abroad and closer to home when they end up in the dump.

The massive elephant in the room, and the one with all the political power that is causing a huge % of Irish pollution is agriculture and we seem utterly unwilling to tackle that. To be fair, the state has tried with all sorts of initiatives like Origin Green and so on.

Ireland has to reposition itself as a clean, green, luxury producer of very good quality agricultural products and not a supplier of cheap dairy and meat. I never understand why Irish agriculture is even attempting to compete with the likes of Brazil for. We should be selling a lot of branded, high end food and drink products - we have EVERYTHING we need to do that! It would mean less intensive farming and higher incomes if it's done right.

There's a lot more that could be done at national, EU and international level that's just not being done because it's all about quarterly results.

It's not that most people don't care, it's that they're mostly operating with limited choices.

Permabear

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[Deleted User]

FTA69 wrote: »

Apparently if everyone made some small but consistent changes we’d be a lot better off and I’ve started eating less meat and sorting my rubbish but it’s hard going.

I do a lot where I can too. I am not a heavy meat eater. And what fish or meat I do eat I try to catch and kill myself - Rabbit and fish and the like - or farm myself - I keep geese and chickens and more.

I catch a lot of water too for use in situations where fresh tap water is not required. And I am more the "throw on another layer before turning on/up the heat" type too.

But it can be hard going for some people - even when they mean well. Some people do what they think is right but do not stop to think.

For example people are told to separate out their plastics but not to put very dirty plastics in. So they do things like wash out their yoghurt pots.

I have seen people do that under a running tap though. The waste of water doing so probably more than negating any environmental advantage of separating out the plastics.

Never occurred to them that _after_ doing the washing up they could use the dirty dish water to de-joghurt their pots and de-jam their jam jars. No water wasted.

But overall I do not think it is simply a case of whether people care or not - which is the question in your thread title.

But each person realises that alone their impact is insignificant. And they look around and see so many other people not bothering. So why should they?

So it is more a kind of mental fatigue and symbolic throwing up of hands - rather than whether people care or not.

And like your mattress in the food bin - the effect is disproportionate. For every careless ignorant idiot who does something like that - it affects that mental fatigue of "why do we bother" of many people.

Even while I continue to do what I can - sometimes at great effort - I feel the pull of that "Why do I bother when so few others are?" think. I have not given in to it yet - but the limits of my endurance are as yet unknown to me. A limit there must be however.

batistuta9

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Often I leave the packaging in Dunnes, Lidl etc. They probably just f*ck it in a landfill after that though.

They'd be recycling it for money I'd think.

5rtytry56

@Permabear:DON'T THINK ABOUT MENTIONING THE LATE LATE TOY SHOW.

server down

Permabear wrote: »

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Capitalism is literally people spending stuff. So even if the government gives people a bonus ( hardly the only Christmas bonus ever given) and they spend it rather than save, thats Capitalism

server down

People care until the livelihood is threathened. Therefore the task for mankind is to have the same quality of living with a reduced, or zero, carbon output. I think thats achievable.

Permabear

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harry Bailey esq

batistuta9 wrote: »

I think the answer to your title question is no.

People are very myopic, they'll only start to care about something or do something about it when it's directly affecting then

That's about the size of it. If it's not happening in MY environment then I don't really care.
Prick with a bucket:Sir are you aware that there are only a few hundred pandas left in the wild?
Me: