Advice needed

Esme266

I posted here back in June for advice about my relationship. I ended up breaking up with him 1 month ago after 6 years and 2 kids together. Now I need advice as he's wanting another chance and I just don't know what to do

uck51js9zml2yt

You need to ask 2 questions.

Why did you break up with him ?
Whats changed in the last month with him? Is the reason for the breakup dealt with.

Esme266

Oh god. There were a few reasons. Mainly he was drinking a lot, going to pub a lot, not helping with the kids or spending time with them. Would get very mad at me when drunk and start arguments. The last 2 years of the relationship were not good at all. What's changed!? I don't think he thought I'd ever finishe it. We'd talked about stuff loads of time and he promised he'd change but always went back to same old ways. He says he's realised how awful it was and apologised for everything and for not being there as a partner and for being so disrespectful. I do still love him. But is that enough

Ursus Horribilis

Is it the guy you posted about here? https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057751680

The question I'd be asking is what steps has he taken to change his ways? Has he given up drinking and has he sought help? Unless he is willing to address his drink problem in an honest fashion, you'll be back to the way things were in a few months time.

Esme266

Yes it's the same fella. I know if this was my friend I would be the first to give advice but I'm so confused. It's a battle with my head and heart. He has said he'll cut down on the drink. When we broke up I told my family everything and now I regret that because they'd be furious if I went and got back together with him and it would always be awkward and tense between them. I have an appointment with a counsellor next week.

august12

Esme266 wrote:

It's a battle with my head and heart. He has said he'll cut down on the drink..

The above sentence says it all. Not much good telling you he will cut down on the drink, take the advice your head is giving you, not your heart, you owe this to your kids, a secure, peaceful home,

Pawwed Rig

Cutting down won't happen. He would need to be making a more definitive declaration than that.
Is drinking more important than you and your kids?

If something as irrelevant as drinking alcohol was going to stop me being a Dad to my 2 I would not give it a second thought to stop permanently.

judeboy101

You are young, you'll have more chances of love, but you only get one chance to give your kids a secure positive fear-free childhood. Based on his previous drink related behaviour, can you guarantee that?

Big Bag of Chips

You don't have to decide today or tomorrow. If he's serious about changing, then you can give him time to change and prove he wants his family. If he appreciates you and is sorry for how he has treated you then he should also be willing to give you that time and to show you during that time that he has changed.

Don't rush into any decision. Go back too quick and you risk having to leave again, dragging your children over and back with you. Give yourself time. Give him a chance to show he's serious. And while you are apart, make sure he is doing his bit by seeing his children regularly and taking them and spending time with them. My guess is, if you don't agree to what he wants immediately, and if you try "force" him to do things with his children, he will soon revert to type, except this time it'll be all your fault for stressing him out and upsetting him. :rolleyes:

Esme266

It wasn't just the drinking. It was the lack of support. I blamed myself for everything that was going wrong and I think that has really affected me mental health wise. I didn't realise how anxious I felt. I did everything for the kids and him . When we broke up, my body just shut down. My parents stepped in to help me out with the kids. I never realised how exhausting it is to raise them. I have an 11 year old from previous relationship. He's old enough to have seen and heard things. I thought I was containing situations and protecting them from stuff. I honestly don't know what to do. Everything he said this evening was what I have wanted from him all along. But I feel it might be too little too late. I don't want to hurt him but I'm afraid. I can't put myself back in a position where I'm waiting for something to go wrong. I don't think he's an alcoholic. But maybe he is?

Esme266

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

You don't have to decide today or tomorrow. If he's serious about changing, then you can give him time to change and prove he wants his family. If he appreciates you and is sorry for how he has treated you then he should also be willing to give you that time and to show you during that time that he has changed.

Don't rush into any decision. Go back too quick and you risk having to leave again, dragging your children over and back with you. Give yourself time. Give him a chance to show he's serious. And while you are apart, make sure he is doing his bit by seeing his children regularly and taking them and spending time with them.

I feel he is putting pressure on me a bit. His point is how can he prove he has changed if I'm not there to see it. He has had the kids for a few hours today and yesterday. But I hope he wants to see them and that he's not just doing it thinking it'll help me change my mind! I feel like since we broke up, I've not had time to think about anything or even myself. I'm an accountant and as it's tax deadline time, work is mental. I've had to work extra days and even bring work home with me. Plus, the kids take up a lot of my time. I haven't properly thought about what I actually want. I hope that by going to a counsellor, it'll help me sort out my head and my thoughts

leggo

Having been with a drinker, they're full of promises of things they're "going" to do, while that elusive carrot remains in the future and never the present. I remember one ex telling me she was concerned with my drinking at one stage. What did I do? Stopped, right there, on the spot. For months. And I was grand with that because it wasn't an issue. I could've kept going forever but she eventually ended up asking me to have a drink with her and said her concerns were allayed down the line. Meanwhile, on the other side when I said it to a drinker ex, she'd always speak vaguely about plans she never had any real intention of fulfilling.

If a drinker is going to do something meaningful about it, they need to do it because they want to make a real, meaningful change. They're addicts. Addicts don't change until they absolutely need to. Addicts are also pathological liars who will instinctively say whatever they need to in order to get what they want. If you've made the brave move and left, then don't go back for less than him coming completely clean and being able to tell you how long he's clean, why he's clean, what he's learned and make sure it ticks every box on a list of things a recovering addict should say. Then you can consider it. Until then I'm guaranteeing you, without ever having to meet this guy, that he's filling your head and you'll be right back where you started within weeks if you go back. That's just how this goes.

Esme266

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Cutting down won't happen. He would need to be making a more definitive declaration than that.
Is drinking more important than you and your kids?

If something as irrelevant as drinking alcohol was going to stop me being a Dad to my 2 I would not give it a second thought to stop permanently.

He has not mentioned quitting altogether. Which is one of my fears. I don't want to be worried if he goes for a drink. It wasn't just the drinking though. I don't think he realises that you're supposed to enjoy your kids, not consider them a chore.

rainbowtrout

Esme266 wrote: »

He has said he'll cut down on the drink.

Cut down is not good enough in this instance I think. Cut out completely is where he needs to be. I remember your thread from a few months ago. He was going to the pub straight from work, sometimes not coming home.

What is his definition of cutting down? Because my bet is that he didn't ever think you'd split up with him, and now you have. Cutting down could mean staying in for a few weeks to appease you and get back in the good books, then start by heading out on the weekend, and then it's friday after work, and so on.... until you're back to square one.

I could easily see him doing 'dry november' but once the Christmas party season kicks off he'll be giving you excuses about having to go out here, there and everywhere because it's Christmas and everyone else is going to be there....

A man that says he's going off to collect dinner for yourself and the kids and then heads to the pub for an 8 hour drinking session has a problem. I'd agree with other posters here, in that you have to go with your head rather than your heart, nothing less than completely giving up drink and for him to go and get counselling/Al Anon sessions is even worth considering. 'Cutting down' is damage limitation on his part to see how much he can get away with in my opinion.

leggo

Esme266 wrote: »

I don't think he's an alcoholic. But maybe he is?

On this: if your drinking affects your personal or professional life in a meaningful way, i.e. being a strong contributing factor in a serious relationship ending, you're an alcoholic. You're rationalising here by comparing him to worse alcoholics, but people who have a healthy relationship with alcohol can curb it the second it starts to threaten the very foundation of their lives.

Esme266

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Cut down is not good enough in this instance I think. Cut out completely is where he needs to be. I remember your thread from a few months ago. He was going to the pub straight from work, sometimes not coming home.

What is his definition of cutting down? Because my bet is that he didn't ever think you'd split up with him, and now you have. Cutting down could mean staying in for a few weeks to appease you and get back in the good books, then start by heading out on the weekend, and then it's friday after work, and so on.... until you're back to square one.

I could easily see him doing 'dry november' but once the Christmas party season kicks off he'll be giving you excuses about having to go out here, there and everywhere because it's Christmas and everyone else is going to be there....

A man that says he's going off to collect dinner for yourself and the kids and then heads to the pub for an 8 hour drinking session has a problem. I'd agree with other posters here, in that you have to go with your head rather than your heart, nothing less than completely giving up drink and for him to go and get counselling/Al Anon sessions is even worth considering. 'Cutting down' is damage limitation on his part to see how much he can get away with in my opinion.

I know he's not going to do that. My head knows what's right. My heart just hasn't caught up with it yet. I don't want to hurt him but I need to do what's right for me and kids. I just fear that things could get messy with kids and that's the last thing I want. It would be easier for me to deal with if he had broken up with me. I don't like to see anyone hurting

Esme266

leggo wrote: »

On this: if your drinking affects your personal or professional life in a meaningful way, i.e. being a strong contributing factor in a serious relationship ending, you're an alcoholic. You're rationalising here by comparing him to worse alcoholics, but people who have a healthy relationship with alcohol can curb it the second it starts to threaten the very foundation of their lives.

I have said that to him a few times. Especially when he compared my smoking to his drinking. My smoking doesn't affect my relationship with him or the kids. It doesn't cause problems or arguments. It's a horrible habit. He would compare the 2. Which was him trying to deflect from himself.

leggo

Esme266 wrote: »

I have said that to him a few times. Especially when he compared my smoking to his drinking. My smoking doesn't affect my relationship with him or the kids. It doesn't cause problems or arguments. It's a horrible habit. He would compare the 2. Which was him trying to deflect from himself.

Yeah, that's textbook. And look you know all of this already, you're saying yourself you're waiting for your heart to catch up to your head. So the question you're asking is really: am I right for how I feel? And the answer is yes, a thousand times yes.

NinetyTwoTeam

People with drink problems can't cut down. They either quit completely or continue the same way, and most won't quit on their own, they need to attend counseling, AA or both.

I had an alcoholic father and my mother left him one time after a bad drunken violent row. We moved into a new house, then after he made a bunch of promises she let him move in. I was disgusted at this but couldn't do anything.

He went back drinking within weeks. She eventually got rid of him again but not after the whole house had been turned upside down again and my two younger sisters all upset again.

It was hard for her raising us on her own but with him in the pub all the time and drinking every penny he wasn't any use as a father or husband anyway and the house was a lot more peaceful without him.

My 2 cents: you will regret it if you take him back. If he won't cut out the drink 100% forget it.

Esme266

leggo wrote: »

Yeah, that's textbook. And look you know all of this already, you're saying yourself you're waiting for your heart to catch up to your head. So the question you're asking is really: am I right for how I feel? And the answer is yes, a thousand times yes.

I suppose that is my question. I need to feel like I've done everything and tried everything.for me, it's all about the kids. I have broken up the family for a reason. And I'm doubting myself. I thought that once we broke up, I would feel better than I do. I suppose it takes time to grieve a relationship or maybe I've been grieving it the last 2 years unknown to myself

Esme266

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

People with drink problems can't cut down. They either quit completely or continue the same way, and most won't quit on their own, they need to attend counseling, AA or both.

I had an alcoholic father and my mother left him one time after a bad drunken violent row. We moved into a new house, then after he made a bunch of promises she let him move in. I was disgusted at this but couldn't do anything.

He went back drinking within weeks. She eventually got rid of him again but not after the whole house had been turned upside down again and my two younger sisters all upset again.

It was hard for her raising us on her own but with him in the pub all the time and drinking every penny he wasn't any use as a father or husband anyway and the house was a lot more peaceful without him.

My 2 cents: you will regret it if you take him back. If he won't cut out the drink 100% forget it.

God that's awful. It's such a selfish disease. What you say about peaceful house, that's what I want.

rainbowtrout

Esme266 wrote: »

I feel he is putting pressure on me a bit. His point is how can he prove he has changed if I'm not there to see it.

Pressuring you into a fast decision before you have time to properly take stock, so he can worm his way back in and go back to his old ways I reckon. Take all the time in the world to make your decision, he had 6 years to change his ways. You haven't even had 6 weeks.

Esme266 wrote: »

I don't want to hurt him but I need to do what's right for me and kids.

Things are never clear cut, but if it came down to a 50-50 decision on who you want to hurt, him or your kids, which would it be? He's more hurt that you called his bluff than the loss of the relationship, because you've done something to show that you won't put up with his bull anymore.

Esme266 wrote: »

I thought that once we broke up, I would feel better than I do. I suppose it takes time to grieve a relationship or maybe I've been grieving it the last 2 years unknown to myself

It's hardest now because it's pretty raw, but in time you will value the peace in your house and the positive environment you can create for your kids. If he is serious about changing he can give up drink, get some help and spend some quality time with your kids without you having to take him back.

Xterminator

Esme266 wrote: »

Especially when he compared my smoking to his drinking. My smoking doesn't affect my relationship with him or the kids.

Hi OP

your not wrong when you say he is trying to deflect, but It is a valid comparison. you're accepting long term health problems for a quick fix now. your inevitable health issues will affect the quality of the relationship with your children. so yes there is a comparison to be made.

one thing he won't expect is for you to offer to give up the smokes, and he gives up all alcohol for the sake for the family unit. but even you you don't ultimately make it work as a couple that would be a good step to take for the family as a whole.

Sephiroth_dude

I wouldn't be rushing back into anything, tell him you need too see more from him e.g. give up alcohol/get help, help with the kids etc before you even think about getting back with him, if you take him back now he'll be back too his old ways in no time.

Not the same situation I know but I have a brother who is an alcoholic and it was terrible trying too deal with him/live with him and his drinking, so I know what its like, even though he's getting help and he has said sorry too me I still don't trust him.

mapaca

Esme266 wrote:

I suppose that is my question. I need to feel like I've done everything and tried everything.for me, it's all about the kids. I have broken up the family for a reason. And I'm doubting myself. I thought that once we broke up, I would feel better than I do. I suppose it takes time to grieve a relationship or maybe I've been grieving it the last 2 years unknown to myself

You didn't break up the family though, it was him and his actions that broke it up. You are doing what's best for your children. I have to agree with other posters here, it's too soon to consider taking him back, you would need to be very sure that he had genuinely turned himself around, quit the drink, and was making a huge effort to change his ways. There's no proof of that yet. Take your time and don't let him pressure you.

Esme266

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi OP

your not wrong when you say he is trying to deflect, but It is a valid comparison. you're accepting long term health problems for a quick fix now. your inevitable health issues will affect the quality of the relationship with your children. so yes there is a comparison to be made.

one thing he won't expect is for you to offer to give up the smokes, and he gives up all alcohol for the sake for the family unit. but even you you don't ultimately make it work as a couple that would be a good step to take for the family as a whole.

I did offer to give them up and went on the vape thing for a while as he had given up and was in the vape thing too. I thought if he saw me making an effort to stop something I find so difficult, then he would give up drinking. Hr cut out the drinking at home and weekends. But he went to pub mist evenings straight from work instead, coming home after kids in bed and all done. He wasn't even bothered by the fact I made a conscious effort

Esme266

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

I wouldn't be rushing back into anything, tell him you need too see more from him e.g. give up alcohol/get help, help with the kids etc before you even think about getting back with him, if you take him back now he'll be back too his old ways in no time.

Not the same situation I know but I have a brother who is an alcoholic and it was terrible trying too deal with him/live with him and his drinking, so I know what its like, even though he's getting help and he has said sorry too me I still don't trust him.

Your last line says it all. Trust! I will always have my guard up and will find it very hard to be comfortable in the relationship if I go back. And I fear that all I've done in the last month will be thrown back at me in a drunken argument a few weeks down the line.

SimpleDimples

It takes a hell of an effort to leave and even more of an effort not to go back.

You left for the right reasons and these reasons haven't changed. He is still talking of drinking-alcoholics cannot do this.

Don't feel guilty about making the right decision for you and your children.

Esme266

SimpleDimples wrote: »

It takes a hell of an effort to leave and even more of an effort not to go back.

You left for the right reasons and these reasons haven't changed. He is still talking of drinking-alcoholics cannot do this.

Don't feel guilty about making the right decision for you and your children.

It would be the easy option for me to go back. Especially with everything he promised he would do. He mentioned buying a house and having another child. Even simple things like letting me have a sleep in on a Sunday morning!! But the trust is gone. The anxiety, worry, tension would all re appear after a few weeks, months. Once he feels like he has won me back, it would slowly begin to go back to the way it was. It's going to be tough for the next few months trying to deal with my own issues.im not coping very well right now and work is busy due to tax deadline. I also am worried about his reaction to what i have to say to him about it wanting to try again.

Fakediamond

IT might be easier for you if he was serious about making all these wonderful changes, but I think you know, deep down, that he doesn't mean it. If he is serious, he could get help for his drinking and prove his sincerity, before pressuring you to come back into the family unit. Do you really want to put your children through this again so soon? There's no rush, IF he's serious. Let things settle for a while and see how you feel then. I'm sure it must be tempting to give in, but remember you were the one carrying this family, and holding down a job, with no practical or emotional support from him. You can do it alone, if that's your ultimate decision.

Sephiroth_dude

Esme266 wrote: »

Your last line says it all. Trust! I will always have my guard up and will find it very hard to be comfortable in the relationship if I go back. And I fear that all I've done in the last month will be thrown back at me in a drunken argument a few weeks down the line.

Living on edge the whole time is no way too live your life, so for now concentrate on yourself and your kids and don't entertain getting back with him for now at least.

zoobizoo

You're in the driving seat here.

Write down a list of things he needs to do in order for you to "consider" getting back with him.

Give him a time line.

Could be: "you need to give up drinking completely and be off it for 3 months before I will get back with you" could be the only point on that list.

If he puts his drinking ahead of you and the kids then that's your decision made for you.

MissShihTzu

I don't know that I would agree with the above advice.

You see - your partner is ill. He has an addiction to alcohol. He can't just cut down, as already mentioned and he doesn't seem to be serious about giving it up. He only promised to 'cut down' What does that mean? Precisely nothing. You can write all the lists and give all the conditions you want, Actions speak louder than words. Your partner loves the life you've arranged for him, and doesn't want to take responsibility for anything. Why should he? You're there to pick up the slack! I think that's why he's desperate to come back, but is only offering a little bit. He's not making a serious effort IMO.

I feel for you. It's not easy when you have children to think about. But it's for the children's sake I would say don't let him come back. They need a settled, peaceful environment. They are certainly not getting that when their Dad seems to like the drink more than them.

I wish you luck and hope it works out for you.

I don't doubt he loves them in his own way. But I think his behaviour is destructive and damaging to ALL of you. Especially the children.

WIZWEB

OP your kids are your priority. The last thing they need to see is the acceptance and normalising of this dysfunction in adult relationships. Your former partner has a serious condition which may be combined with aggression. It's very difficult to address these issues without him willingly accessing professional services.

Do of course always facilitate appropriate child visits. Bonding with both parents is important. Especially with young children. However if older ones don't want to considering what they have experienced then they must not be forced to. They may need therapy if they witnessed certain events. Never bad mouth their father either. Children mostly idolize their parents whatever their experiences. He has an addiction. This doesn't make him a bad person. Though possible negative related behaviors cannot be condoned. Utilize social services if necessary to accommodate visits (Only required though if there's history of violence towards you or them). Such actions will show him he needs to change. He will also need to access support for his anger management issues if these fights he is starting are physical. He may of course not be violent or may never be. You could also consider Al-Anon for you. He can and will promise you the sun, moon and stars. He may even believe it at the time. However his addiction will always win until his actions, not words show otherwise. He may have to lose a lot before initiating positive change. Sadly sometimes they got to reach rock bottom first. You've presented enough evidence that he has a serious problem with alcohol whatever minimization from both sides. Do not enable him.

Also take your smoking cessation seriously. I, like several siblings took it up because parents doing it offered acceptance. The witnessed misuse of alcohol by a parent also can create such a legacy. After starting at eleven I'm lucky to be long off smokes after thirty one years of them. Yes it's another dangerous addiction however we minimize it. My mother died early from them.

Here is my example. Extreme I know. A lesson to share about what can happen when enabling through minimizing. It's about someone that I once loved that I pretended for years was not an alcoholic who actively was destroying himself and me. My anger and perhaps bitterness is not towards him but his addiction and my tolerance. He must be pitied and is long forgiven for his choices as I hope I am for mine. I did 8.5 years enabling this alcoholic ex. I was Codependent to the core. Eventually I left. I remained friends (enabler) for a while afterwards. Though after being guilted (still my choice) into seeing him in hospital a few days after he nearly bit his tongue off outside an off license with a alcohol related fit I was done. He was devastated that he had smashed two bottles of wine good enough for chips while gyrating. Apparently his excessive drinking was all my fault for leaving years before! Not his nor the establishments that served him often while drunk. There was always an excuse. I knew but denied that he was an active alcoholic when we first met and stupidly still went into this relationship. I finally realized in the hospital that he only ever desired one relationship and it was not with me or anyone else. My years of enabling, justifications, excuses and false responsibility totally dissipated. His years of almost daily drunken threats of suicide pre and post breakup subsided when I admitted to myself and actioned that I was no longer going to allow myself to be emotionally manipulated. Sometimes you got to be cruel to be kind to yourself. None of his drinking buddies bothered visiting him in hospital. They only saw and wanted to see the happy drunk. I got to see him lying in his own urine and excrement with a nappy attached because of his choices. He still checked out three days early to reinvest in his favorite off license.

During our relationship I eventually experienced the aggressive, lying, violent, cheating him several times and still I stayed or returned after breakups and enabled! Yep I had some serious personal reflections to do afterwards. Admittedly most alcoholics are not like this, never will be and do much more damage to themselves than any others. In my case I minimized my reality as the abuse escalated over time. He got his sh!t together for a while when I cut off all enabling ties but sadly he chose to became dual addicted while facilitated by another enabler. He also chose minimum though mostly no interventions over our years together, before us and after us. We briefly communicated years later by email when serious health and legal problems had eventually caught up on him due to this addictions. I eventually had to accept his lifestyle preferences by walking away permanently. My mental health had to be my priority. I'm just glad there were no kids involved. He's also a victim in all this as venomous as my post appears. I too have to be responsible for my choices. However it must be acknowledged that many alcoholics/addicts can and do recover but only when they really want to and consistently evidence their attempts. I have great respect for these people and those that do genuinely try. They deserve to be supported. It's your former partners problem to acknowledge and start addressing. Not yours and definitely not the kids.

Alf Veedersane

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi OP

your not wrong when you say he is trying to deflect, but It is a valid comparison. you're accepting long term health problems for a quick fix now. your inevitable health issues will affect the quality of the relationship with your children. so yes there is a comparison to be made.

one thing he won't expect is for you to offer to give up the smokes, and he gives up all alcohol for the sake for the family unit. but even you you don't ultimately make it work as a couple that would be a good step to take for the family as a whole.

It isn't a valid comparison. It might be if the OP was going missing for hours/days to go smoking.

The OP doesn't have to prove her commitment here.

Giving up smoking is advisable but it's a completely separate issue to this whole thread.