Primetime Special: Nightmare to let

philstar

RTÉ Investigates spent six months examining standards in the private rental sector. Undercover researchers found dangerously overcrowded accommodation and sub-standard buildings with multiple fire safety breaches. Three multiple occupancy buildings with more than 120 tenants have since been closed after inspection by Dublin Fire Brigade.

There was a 100% failure rate in four districts - Kilkenny, Louth, Offaly, Limerick city and county.

Anyone watch it last night? was pretty disgusting the way all those people were crammed into those buildings..like something from Dickensian times...some unscrupulous landlords out there taking advantage of how desperate some people are for accommodation.

branie2

Some landlords are shysters

Beta Ray Bill

Nothing short of a disgrace really

In desperate times the wealthy always exploit the poor.

Criminal charges should be brought against those Landlords (endangering life), but will it?.... Not a chance

Wanderer78

We shall not speak bad of 'the market'!

cantdecide

Wouldn't you love to stand in the Dáil and ask all those who could reasonably be referred to as a landlord to raise their hand.

Beta Ray Bill

cantdecide wrote: »

Wouldn't you love to stand in the Dáil and ask all those who could reasonably be referred to as a landlord to raise their hand.

They are all Landlords

Harry Palmr

They are all farmers and teachers.

Assetbacked

Green Effect Technology trading as Global Academics with directors Mr Jason Orr and Mr Joshua Cantwell launched an injunction against the broadcast of the show, effectively claiming that they would be "unquestionably guilty" of the claims asserted by the footage. I can't find very much about these two gentlemen but it is clear from the footage that they are greedy, law-breaking, exploitative men and have a particularly vulnerable market in the international student market within which they flog their wares.

Arthur Daley

grahambo wrote: »

In desperate times the wealthy always exploit the poor.

Criminal charges should be brought against those Landlords (endangering life), but will it?.... Not a chance

There is supposed to be a boom on at the minute though isn't there. Hardly desperate times.

But yeah, 3 days of the usual debates on radio 1 and newstalk, the odd twitter meltdown and back to business as usual on Monday.

Wanderer78

Assetbacked wrote:

Green Effect Technology trading as Global Academics with directors Mr Jason Orr and Mr Joshua Cantwell launched an injunction against the broadcast of the show, effectively claiming that they would be "unquestionably guilty" of the claims asserted by the footage. I can't find very much about these two gentlemen but it is clear they are greedy, law-breaking, exploiting men and have a particularly vulnerable market in the international student market.

Have they any connection to one of those international colleges teaching English etc, I wonder?

Wanderer78

Arthur Daley wrote:

There is supposed to be a boom on at the minute though isn't there. Hardly desperate times.

Is there? Over 8,000 homeless and rising, shur everything's grand!

SEPT 23 1989

I presume a Revenue official will be pressing the intercom button at Mr O'Neil's mansion in Kilkenny this morning

doolox

There was a time when local authorities built a fair number of houses each year to meet demand and provide competently built and durable housing for people who were not able to provide their own housing and , more importantly, for people who lacked the basic skills and money to maintain and keep in good repair an average house such as many built by the private sector in recent decades.

Most people who were landlords have sold out and been replaced by multi-owned companies and arrangements designed to hide the true ownership and lines of responsibility so that in the event of a lawsuit penalties cannot be imposed on the true owners as there are many layers of ownership and agencies to go through to get to the real owner and try and get justice done.

I was shocked at the state of the electric systems in those houses and the water ingress allowed in close proximity to live wires etc. If someone touches a light fitting in those circumstances they could be killed. How an owner would not lose his entire wealth in a compensation claim is beyond me and it must be that several untraceable people own the house and are sufficiently protected by layers of company and other joint ownership so as not to give a toss what happens.

I hope that this is only an extreme case and the worst that RTE could find but I fear that with the mass exodus of single house small-time landlords from the sector and the now accurately perceived unfairness of government tax treatment and the real risk of losses due to overholding and the difficulty of getting rid of non paying tenants in a reasonable time makes the small-time landlord business a very risky proposition. Only well heeled legal professionals can now afford to enter the landlord business or people of similar calibre with similar qualifications or expertise. The days of the non professional single house owner ( besides his own dwellingplace) are numbered. The risks and worry for the highly taxed rewards are too great.

Assetbacked

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Have they any connection to one of those international colleges teaching English etc, I wonder?

http://globalacademicsireland.com/#contact

This entity has the same address as the company which launched High Court proceedings. Accommodation prices; http://globalacademicsireland.com/accommodation/

Wanderer78

doolox wrote:

I hope that this is only an extreme case and the worst that RTE could find but I fear that with the mass exodus of single house small-time landlords from the sector and the now accurately perceived unfairness of government tax treatment and the real risk of losses due to overholding and the difficulty of getting rid of non paying tenants in a reasonable time makes the small-time landlord business a very risky proposition. Only well heeled legal professionals can now afford to enter the landlord business or people of similar calibre with similar qualifications or expertise. The days of the non professional single house owner ( besides his own dwellingplace) are numbered. The risks and worry for the highly taxed rewards are too great.

.... But but 'the market'!

evolving_doors

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They are all farmers and teachers.

Oi! none of them are teachers.

amcalester

grahambo wrote: »

They are all Landlords

About 20% are landlords LINK

Wanderer78

Assetbacked wrote:

This entity has the same address as the company which launched High Court proceedings. Accommodation prices;

Jesus, why hasn't this industry been shut down already, I've met many of these students

philstar

...and what was the point in "door stopping" yer man at his mansion standing at the automatic gates?? it was obvious he was never going to come out....why didn't the reporter do that when the guy was at one of his premises ?? would have loved to see his face drop when confronted

SEPT 23 1989

philstar wrote: »

...and what was the point in "door stopping" yer man at his mansion standing at the automatic gates?? it was obvious he was never going to come out....why didn't the reporter do that when the guy was at one of his premises ?? would have loved to see his face drop when confronted

they wanted to show what yer man was living in compared to the slum he was running

pwurple

I saw a bit of it. I bet those feckers aren't declaring a penny of that income and paying tax either. Absolute criminal behaviour.

When I think of the amount of money and time I have put into making places sound electrically, with plumbing, installing fire and carbon monoxide systems, meeting every bloody regulation going, bending over backwards for tenants, and making 0 money off it, in the distant hope that sense might come back to the sector long term. 

And these god****es flout the whole lot of it, and roll in money, while making things worse for the rest of us. 

Makes my blood boil.

philstar

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

they wanted to show what yer man was living in compared to the slum he was running

they could still have shown his mansion..and confronted him in Crumlin ?

SEPT 23 1989

pwurple wrote: »

I saw a bit of it. I bet those feckers aren't declaring a penny of that income and paying tax either. Absolute criminal behaviour.

When I think of the amount of money and time I have put into making places sound electrically, with plumbing, installing fire and carbon monoxide systems, meeting every bloody regulation going, bending over backwards for tenants, and making 0 money off it, in the distant hope that sense might come back to the sector long term. 

And these god****es flout the whole lot of it, and roll in money, while making things worse for the rest of us. 

Makes my blood boil.

unfortunately you are cursed with a conscience

Beta Ray Bill

amcalester wrote: »

About 20% are landlords LINK

Isn't that only what they've "declared"

Bare in mind people in the Dail are the biggest crooks in the country.

I'd find it very hard to to believe only 1 in 5 is a Land lord

cantdecide

grahambo wrote: »

Isn't that only what they've "declared"

I'd wager there are plenty more who are landlords indirectly through investments holding companies.

suicide_circus

Not surprised at an English teaching school business being involved in this. Most of them are dodgy to the core.

The conditions were shocking in those places but I'm kind of torn. Most people who come to ireland to work and learn English wouldn't dream of living like that and are prepared to spend the extra money to get something better or leave. I'm not saying it's not exploitation, it absolutely is and these Slum Lords should be prosecuted by local authorities and revenue. But I can't help feeling there has to be a small element of personal responsibility. The brazilians interviewed who had lived in these places had presumably moved out because they were not prepared to live like that any longer.

Dublin City Council came out of that show VERY badly. I wonder will heads roll? No actually we don't do consequences for those in public office.

amcalester

grahambo wrote: »

Isn't that only what they've "declared"

Bare in mind people in the Dail are the biggest crooks in the country.

I'd find it very hard to to believe only 1 in 5 is a Land lord

Actually it has increased to 25% according to this article.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

I'm going to jump straight in here and get to the point: Unless all of you contact you local TD, community activists, college groups, and political parties and demand that this situation is addressed immediately, then frankly you're wasting your breath.

If you think this situation isn't acceptable in modern day Ireland, then get off your arse and do something about it.

How many people here would actually take part in a march to demand changes to this third world living standards that many of us have had to deal with it Ireland?

__..__

Can the housing charities please step up and go to every one of these slums that they hear of and offer the people in them accommodation.
Surely you can't find this and then turn a blind eye to it after a few words on the TV.

philstar

here's that twat that was on last night...

https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/219776/video-king-of-the-gingers-andy-oneill-from-crumlin-boxing-club-calls-out-conor-mcgregor/

amcalester

philstar wrote: »

here's that twat that was on last night...

https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/219776/video-king-of-the-gingers-andy-oneill-from-crumlin-boxing-club-calls-out-conor-mcgregor/

Giving gingers a bad name:rolleyes:

#notmyking

Wurly

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I'm going to jump straight in here and get to the point: Unless all of you contact you local TD, community activists, college groups, and political parties and demand that this situation is addressed immediately, then frankly you're wasting your breath.

If you think this situation isn't acceptable in modern day Ireland, then get off your arse and do something about it.

How many people here would actually take part in a march to demand changes to this third world living standards that many of us have had to deal with it Ireland?

/thread

We all want things to change but expect others to change, not ourselves!

erica74

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I'm going to jump straight in here and get to the point: Unless all of you contact you local TD, community activists, college groups, and political parties and demand that this situation is addressed immediately, then frankly you're wasting your breath.

If you think this situation isn't acceptable in modern day Ireland, then get off your arse and do something about it.

How many people here would actually take part in a march to demand changes to this third world living standards that many of us have had to deal with it Ireland?

About the same amount of people who go out and march about the state of our healthcare system.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Beta Ray Bill

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I'm going to jump straight in here and get to the point: Unless all of you contact you local TD, community activists, college groups, and political parties and demand that this situation is addressed immediately, then frankly you're wasting your breath.

If you think this situation isn't acceptable in modern day Ireland, then get off your arse and do something about it.

How many people here would actually take part in a march to demand changes to this third world living standards that many of us have had to deal with it Ireland?

Did that this morning.

Normally I wouldn't be arsed but the situation is out of control at this stage.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

i wouldnt be anything to do with the fact, the idea of 'the market' is actually a construct, in which we ve all been indoctrinated by for many decades including our politicians. i now believe is doesnt actually matter who you vote in, and its also possible we have opened pandora's box in relation to macroeconomic theory.

yes you are correct that many governments have most certainly 'interfered' with the market and made it much worse, but when you ve been indoctrinated with what i can only simply call, 'bull**** economic theory', thats gonna happen. its time for us to move on from the 'efficient market hypothesis, because, well, its simply not all that efficient with providing us with what we actually need, and you can stick this idea of equilibrium where the sun doesnt shine to, and send it on its way to la la land.

oh yes, you conveniently left out the vital part our financial sector plays in regards property, and more or less pointed the finger at, 'them politicians'!:rolleyes: maybe we should reduce our government's input in 'the market', and allow the market forces of supply and demand and blah blah blah blah blah!

interesting debate on our property market:

https://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/1339/134569/0/David-McWilliams-Ireland

conorhal

My bet is that not one of the shocked and outraged in the establishment will call for the obvious solution to this specific problem and deal with it at source, which shutting down  about 50% of the language schools in Dublin.
You know which ones too and they're all over the place, the seedy, shabby looking dumps with impressive signs tacked onto the front of them like 'Dublin International College of Great Engrish Lurning and Busyness'.
The vast majority of those in last nights program were English language students and migrant workers.
This is the flip side of the 'why are Irish people too lazy to do menial jobs' argument, because they don't fancy living likes their great grandparents in Victorian tenements as slaves in all but name.

Timothy Bryce

I’m a private landlord since 2007, more-so by accident than anything else. I was really shocked last night to see the state of the some of the properties passing for rental accommodation these days. I consider myself a decent landlord, I charge the tenant a fair price and any time there's an issue I make sure it's sorted with a degree of urgency. They're good tenants and I'd like to keep them in place.

The practices uncovered by PT I feel are a product of some really poor decisions around legislation since the crash in 2008.

Tightening up on the legislation around bedsits effectively pushed tenants out of properties at the very bottom of the market. I viewed a house with a colleague in central Dublin for sale in 2014 - there were 12 bedsits and he was looking to buy it to convert into a large family home. From speaking with a couple of the tenants, they were either moving back to their parents (students) or in the case of 2 foreign nationals, were considering hostels. Just one example, but one house housing 12 people all needed to make alternative arrangements regarding their accomodation. Where did the legislators expect these people to go?

Secondly, I think the treatment of some genuine private landlords by the Revenue has driven them out of the market. I for one am considering my exit; I’d love to hang onto it but it’s a financial noose around my neck. Since 2015 the rent has just about covered the mortgage, but it’s loss making after management fees. I’d still probably suck up that expense given I’d own the asset over time, if I wasn’t asked to pay 50% tax on the rent I receive. There are no profits only losses, but I still have to cover these payments every year out of my own already taxed PAYE income.

The homeless/housing/rental crisis hasn’t appeared out of thin air, decent private landlords have been driven out of the market leaving large funds/ETF's and unscrupulous characters to operate in the market. If I wanted to invest money in 2017, the last place I’d look would be on a rental property in Ireland. Until significant inroads are made in making the Irish rental business a semi-worthwhile investment, practices such as those on in Crumlin will continue, long after the outrage from the PT piece has died away.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Beta Ray Bill

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

I for one am considering my exit; I’d love to hang onto it but it’s a financial noose around my neck. Since 2015 the rent has just about covered the mortgage, but it’s loss making after management fees. I’d still probably suck up that expense given I’d own the asset over time, if I wasn’t asked to pay 50% tax on the rent I receive. There are no profits only losses, but I still have to cover these payments every year out of my own already taxed PAYE income.

^^^ This ^^^

People with money, cannot be expected to invest their money into a property to rent out to people with less money at a loss to themselves.

Piece in bold is crazy. It's all down to the f**king banks (AGAIN!). Mortgage rates in Ireland are the highest in Europe.
Bank's are continuously shafting mortgage holders.

The Banks and Politicians need to get their head out of the clouds and sort this.

I for one would not invest in a property to rent out, unless I had at least 50% of the value of that property as a deposit.
And guess what!!!!??? The Banks won't give you a mortgage for less than 50% of the value of that property because "They don't make enough money on it / Can't repo it if things go to sh*t"

P*sstake.

Odhinn

cantdecide wrote: »

Wouldn't you love to stand in the Dáil and ask all those who could reasonably be referred to as a landlord to raise their hand.

They won't let you in if you're armed with a machine gun. Tis true.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

...and again, you re conveniently excluding the involvement of the financial sector in leading us to this point, i.e. the problem isnt just with what you have mentioned, of which i actually agree to a point. our political system has probably over reacted to the crash in ways, and i will agree with david mcwilliams from the program i posted, we re now waiting for the 'plugs', particularly in relation to the financial sector, to be uncorked, to potentially lead us back into another credit bubble as before. as you mentioned, in relation to property owners, our current housing policies are actually failing most property owners and renters. its what id call, a cluster****!

ChikiChiki

What a way to treat people. Where the hell will these tenants go now? An absolute kip of a country.

DCC caught out here to. Not bothering to follow up inspections. Lazy clowns obviously have bigger issues such as debating flying the Catalan flag.

cherryghost

I'm just surprised RTE did something productive for once.

retro:electro

Pure and utter greed in its most transparent form. Disgraceful. The landlord whose house was featured at the end made sure he wasn't stuck for space anyway.
I wouldn't sleep at night if I was the one responsible for those living conditions.

whisky_galore

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That's the problem, in a nutshell.
The people that have a stake in Irish society will always get heard.

No-one seems to get as invested about this issue compared to say all the marches and associated ranting and raving about abortion. I think it was particularly telling when Sean Moncrieff ran pieces about homelessness/accom. crisis and abortion...there was something paltry, like a half-doz responses from the listeners on housing but people were at it hammer and tongs about abortion into the following morning. :rolleyes:

__..__

ChikiChiki wrote: »

What a way to treat people. Where the hell will these tenants go now? An absolute kip of a country.

DCC caught out here to. Not bothering to follow up inspections. Lazy clowns obviously have bigger issues such as debating flying the Catalan flag.

They are not inspecting such properties on purpose. When they find these plans es they would have to shut them down, evicting the tenants thereby increasing the homeless problem.
It is not in their interests at all to inspect.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

__..__ wrote: »

They are not inspecting such properties on purpose. When they find these plans es they would have to shut them down, evicting the tenants thereby increasing the homeless problem.
It is not in their interests at all to inspect.

Sadly, I suspect that could be true.

padd b1975

cantdecide wrote: »

I'd wager there are plenty more who are landlords indirectly through investments holding companies.

You could say that about anyone with a private pension.

padd b1975

ChikiChiki wrote: »

What a way to treat people. Where the hell will these tenants go now? An absolute kip of a country.

DCC caught out here to. Not bothering to follow up inspections. Lazy clowns obviously have bigger issues such as debating flying the Catalan flag.

That's what you get with a leftie majority, fiddling while Rome burns.

fryup

ChikiChiki wrote: »

What a way to treat people. Where the hell will these tenants go now? An absolute kip of a country.

ah come now, it could happen anywhere in any country...have you ever watched slum landlords on channel 5 ? ...that sort of thing is rampant in the uk