Ireland staying neutral in WW2 was Eamon de Valera's greatest achievement - Leo

A Little Pony

Should resign as taoiseach immediately. Praising the coward De Valera in his refusal to join the Allies in the fight for freedom against Nazi tyranny and Adolf Hitler is shocking. Shame on him.

http://irishpost.co.uk/ireland-staying-neutral-ww2-eamon-de-valeras-greatest-achievement-leo-varadkar/

A Little Pony

A Little Pony wrote: »

Should resign as taoiseach immediately. Praising the coward De Valera in his refusal to join the Allies in the fight for freedom against Nazi tyranny and Adolf Hitler is shocking. Shame on him.

Cool

Éamon de Valera’s greatest achievement – Leo

what?

Wait. What on Earth is happening?

Does the title display as:

‰amon de Valera’s greatest achievement –

for anyone else? Yet when you copy and paste it it becomes

Éamon de Valera’s greatest achievement – Leo

What?

McMurphy

Someone should just buy the OP a neon sign that lights up pink and flashes with the words "pay attention to me".

It would be easier and less laborious for him than repeatedly posting controversial anti Irish scutter

conditioned games

Not often I agree with Leo, but yes he is stating the obvious, WW2 was not our war, pity same wasn't done for WW1.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Deleted User wrote: »

Éamon de Valera’s greatest achievement – Leo

what?

Wait. What on Earth is happening?

Does the title display as:

‰amon de Valera’s greatest achievement –

for anyone else? Yet when you copy and paste it it becomes

Éamon de Valera’s greatest achievement – Leo

What?

Same here. I got the impression the OP was trying to be smart with some keyboard smilies and it backfired.

conditioned games

conditioned games wrote: »

Not often I agree with Leo, but yes he is stating the obvious, WW2 was not our war, pity same wasn't done for WW1.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Shurimgreat

If we hadn't stayed neutral, there is a strong chance the Germans would have bombed us to oblivion, Dublin at least, sank our ships, and possibly tried to invade us to open up a new front. To prevent this, the likelihood is Churchill would have ordered Ireland in turn to be invaded and occupied. We also didn't really have the resources to make a difference to the outcome of the war.

On balance neutrality was our best option.

donegaLroad

I for one, would certainly have been against sending Irish troops to serve as cannon fodder during WW2.

The timing of this comment by LV could be significant.

*Expect announcements on EU integrated military forces in the near future.

Alf Veedersane

Aegir wrote: »

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Then they returned you and got a refund.

conditioned games

Aegir wrote: »

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

They wouldn't be any worse than the previous shower here. Global elites funded the Nazis to strengthen communist control, taking part would be playing their game and risking life for nothing.

murphthesmurf

My Irish history is pretty poor, but for me it was a big mistake that luckily Ireland did not have to suffer for. What I mean by this is, Britain fallen the idea that the Nazis would have stopped there and not crossed the Irish sea is optimistic at best. That's why for me the best idea would have been to help prevent them ever getting that far.

conditioned games

conditioned games wrote: »

They wouldn't be any worse than the previous shower here. Global elites funded the Nazis to strengthen communist control, taking part would be playing their game and risking life for nothing.

it was the lizards i tell you, the lizards :eek:

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

RIP you sorry for your troubles

Collie D

Deleted User wrote: »

Éamon de Valera’s greatest achievement – Leo

what?

Wait. What on Earth is happening?

Does the title display as:

‰amon de Valera’s greatest achievement –

for anyone else? Yet when you copy and paste it it becomes

Éamon de Valera’s greatest achievement – Leo

What?

OP had the fada function removed from his keyboard.

blanch152

Shurimgreat wrote: »

If we hadn't stayed neutral, there is a strong chance the Germans would have bombed us to oblivion, Dublin at least, sank our ships, and possibly tried to invade us to open up a new front. To prevent this, the likelihood is Churchill would have ordered Ireland in turn to be invaded and occupied. We also didn't really have the resources to make a difference to the outcome of the war.

On balance neutrality was our best option.

From a pure self-interest point of view, the correct, albeit cowardly, option was to stay neutral.

From a moral point of view, the fact that Ireland stayed neutral in WW2 is to our eternal shame that we didn't join the rest of the world in standing up to the evil of fascism.

wakka12

If we had joined then thousands of innocent irish civlians would have died in bombings of cities here. And thousands of irish troops would have died at war.
I dont think staying neutral in a war is something to be ashamed of
Also considering we are a small country with very small military power that would made a neglibible difference to the outcome of the war which was won anyway

gifted

Shurimgreat wrote: »

If we hadn't stayed neutral, there is a strong chance the Germans would have bombed us to oblivion, Dublin at least, sank our ships, and possibly tried to invade us to open up a new front. To prevent this, the likelihood is Churchill would have ordered Ireland in turn to be invaded and occupied. We also didn't really have the resources to make a difference to the outcome of the war.



On balance neutrality was our best option.

Opportunity lost there....Dublin being bombed....Yeah, Dev has a lot to answer for..lol lol

diomed

A Little Pony wrote: »

Should resign as taoiseach immediately. Praising the coward De Valera in his refusal to join the Allies in the fight for freedom against Nazi tyranny and Adolf Hitler is shocking. Shame on him.

After 800 years of oppression, a five year economic war with Britain from 1932 to 1938, and only 17 years after our independance, Britain declares war on the most powerful country in Europe and invites us along.

Invitation declined.

donegaLroad

De Valera denied Britain the use of our seaports, I think he was right to stand up to Churchill who was spitting fire regarding our neutrality.

I don't think De Valera should have signed to book of condolences when Hitler died though.

Hitman3000

120,000 men from the island of Ireland fought in the British army in WW2. We detained Axis service personnel who crashed or were rescused in the Curragh whilst returning Allied personnel who crashed or were rescued. Neutral in words only.

Irish Examiner
Aug 29th 2015 was were the figure of 120,000 is from. Can't post links.

wakka12

Hitman3000 wrote: »

120,000 men from the island of Ireland fought in the British army in WW2. We detained Axis service personnel who crashed or were rescused in the Curragh whilst returning Allied personnel who crashed or were rescued. Neutral in words only.

Also sent aid to northern irish cities after bombings and took refugees in

Pelvis

donegaLroad wrote: »

I don't think De Valera should have signed to book of condolences when Hitler died though.

Hitman3000

wakka12 wrote:

Also sent aid to northern irish cities after bombings and took refugees in

True, also the southern fire service responded to fires in Belfast.

Conall Cernach

murphthesmurf wrote: »

My Irish history is pretty poor, but for me it was a big mistake that luckily Ireland did not have to suffer for. What I mean by this is, Britain fallen the idea that the Nazis would have stopped there and not crossed the Irish sea is optimistic at best. That's why for me the best idea would have been to help prevent them ever getting that far.

The Germans had no reason to attack Ireland if they had beaten Britain. They didn't even want to go to war with Britain in the first place. Their ideology was based on expansion to the East not the West.

donegaLroad

Pelvis wrote: »

here you go

diomed

All Britain and Germany wanted was a playing pitch for their war - Ireland.
I'm not a Shinner. When it comes to Britain having our best interests at heart I think it best to ignore their advice.

Ten of Swords

murphthesmurf wrote: »

My Irish history is pretty poor, but for me it was a big mistake that luckily Ireland did not have to suffer for. What I mean by this is, Britain fallen the idea that the Nazis would have stopped there and not crossed the Irish sea is optimistic at best. That's why for me the best idea would have been to help prevent them ever getting that far.

The British developed Plan W in 1940 which was the defence of Ireland in the event of a Nazi invasion, they speculated this would be by way of a landing in Cork. The planned called for the Irish Army and the British Army to work together but declassified documents after the war also make passing mentions of engaging "local security forces" if they "became hostile"

Malcolm McDonald, acting as England's negotiator in these talks, also offered to end the partition of Ireland, ie give back the six counties, if Ireland joined the allies.

diomed

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Malcolm McDonald, acting as England's negotiator in these talks, also offered to end the partition of Ireland, ie give back the six counties, if Ireland joined the allies.

Yeah, sure.

Infini

We were officially neutral for more practical reason than anything as Ireland joining would have only been to our disadvantage. We never had the resources or remote capability to defend ourselves against the Nazi's so it was best for us to stay out of it "officially".
Unofficially of course there was some help as we would make allied prisoners "disappear"..... across the border . Axis got a nice holiday down in culchie country!

A Little Pony

donegaLroad wrote: »

De Valera denied Britain the use of our seaports, I think he was right to stand up to Churchill who was spitting fire regarding our neutrality.

I don't think De Valera should have signed to book of condolences when Hitler died though.

Churchill was right on this issue. Shame on De Valera and not standing up to Nazi tyranny.

wakka12

diomed wrote: »

All Britain and Germany wanted was a playing pitch for their war - Ireland.
I'm not a Shinner. When it comes to Britain having our best interests at heart I think it best to ignore their advice.

Yeh I agree. Nerve of british government at the time to condemn ireland for not helping them in the war war after the then very recent history between britain and ireland!

RobertKK

De Valera signed the book of condolence as a FU to the British, who had threatened to invade Ireland for not getting militarily involved.

Hitler had a plan for invading Ireland. It should be remembered there were a lot of people alive then who had lived under British rule.
Who remembered the Black and Tans and it was not like now where relations are much stronger, even if there British have been incredibly stupid with Brexit...which doesn’t help things.

diomed

Winston Churchill lived for a few years in the Phoenix Park aged about 5.
I delivered newspapers to Linden Convalescent Home when Eamonn De Valera was there.

Britain does a lot of invading and fighting. We don't.

The countries never invaded by the British:
Andorra
Belarus
Bolivia
Burundi
Central African Republic
Chad
Congo, Republic of
Guatemala
Ivory Coast
Kyrgyzstan
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Mali
Marshall Islands
Monaco
Mongolia
Paraguay
Sao Tome and Principe
Sweden
Tajikistan
Uzbekistan
Vatican City

Out of 193 countries that are currently UN member states, Britain invaded or fought conflicts in the territory of 171.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/All-Countries-Weve-Ever-Invaded/dp/0752479695

Get off your moral high ground OP.

Doltanian

It was an appalling decision and further continued Ireland's isolation when Ireland should have declared war on Germany in 1939 in tandem with the British. It deprived Ireland of what would have been a huge cash injection with the Marshal Plan, Ireland would have been United today also as a direct result of it, and cities like Dublin and Limerick would probably have been obliterated and rebuilt properly afterwards.

Eamon De Valera was a traitor to Ireland he singlehandedly held the country back for over 50 years and there is absolutely nothing that he can be praised for.

maryishere

Conall Cernach wrote: »

The Germans had no reason to attack Ireland if they had beaten Britain.

Nazi Germany had a history of invading neutral countries, deporting its Jews, homosexuals, communists, gypsies etc to concentration camps and using its menfolk as slaves in factories for the Nazi war effort.
The UK and its allies defended us from all that.

Respect to the 120,000 people from the island of Ireland who volunteered and served with the British war effort.

diomed

Doltanian wrote: »

Ireland would have been United today also as a direct result of it

Or Britain would not have left after the war and Ireland would be part of the United Kingdom again.
Do you really believe the British word?

diomed

Doltanian wrote: »

cities like Dublin and Limerick would probably have been obliterated and rebuilt properly afterwards.

That is a benefit of Ireland joining Britain in war?

wakka12

Doltanian wrote: »

It was an appalling decision and further continued Ireland's isolation when Ireland should have declared war on Germany in 1939 in tandem with the British. It deprived Ireland of what would have been a huge cash injection with the Marshal Plan, Ireland would have been United today also as a direct result of it, and cities like Dublin and Limerick would probably have been obliterated and rebuilt properly afterwards.

Eamon De Valera was a traitor to Ireland he singlehandedly held the country back for over 50 years and there is absolutely nothing that he can be praised for.

NO they wouldnt , they would be fugly looking post war cities like cologne and coventry. Not that dublin looks that great today but it would look a lot worse if it had been bombed

donegaLroad

maryishere wrote: »

Nazi Germany had a history of invading neutral countries, deporting its Jews, homosexuals, communists, gypsies etc to concentration camps and using its menfolk as slaves in factories for the Nazi war effort.
The UK and its allies defended us from all that.

Respect to the 120,000 people from the island of Ireland who volunteered and served with the British war effort.

Russia played a much larger part in defending us from all that.

Hitman3000

donegaLroad wrote:

Russia played a much larger part in defending us from all that.

Ssh... you can't say that.

Kivaro

A Little Pony wrote: »

Churchill was right on this issue. Shame on De Valera and not standing up to Nazi tyranny.

Get off that high horse little pony!

Zebra3

maryishere wrote: »

Nazi Germany had a history of invading neutral countries, deporting its Jews, homosexuals, communists, gypsies etc to concentration camps and using its menfolk as slaves in factories for the Nazi war effort.
The UK and its allies defended us from all that.

Respect to the 120,000 people from the island of Ireland who volunteered and served with the British war effort.

Britain has a far longer history of invading neutral countries, ethnically cleansing the locals, committing genocide, engaging in land theft, sending people off to concentration camps, to name but a few of their crimes.

Respect to all those Irish people who resisted the pressure to join Britain’s war on Germany.

Conall Cernach

maryishere wrote: »

Nazi Germany had a history of invading neutral countries, deporting its Jews, homosexuals, communists, gypsies etc to concentration camps and using its menfolk as slaves in factories for the Nazi war effort.
The UK and its allies defended us from all that.

Respect to the 120,000 people from the island of Ireland who volunteered and served with the British war effort.

They had a history of invading neutral countries for strategic reasons such as when they attacked the Netherlands and Belgium to defeat France or the invasion of Norway to get their iron resources. No such reason existed to invade Ireland. They would have gained nothing that they could not have gained through trade and would have to expend several hundred thousand troops garrisoning the country.

Maybe if they had also defeated the USSR they might have turned their attention to Ireland as an afterthought like they also may have eventually moved against Switzerland and Sweden. But let's face it the chances are that they could have easily organised for a puppet government to run the show here without having to set a jackboot on the ground.

murphthesmurf

Conall Cernach wrote: »

The Germans had no reason to attack Ireland if they had beaten Britain. They didn't even want to go to war with Britain in the first place. Their ideology was based on expansion to the East not the West.

I take your point, but had he gotten that far I think it very unlikely he wouldn't have taken that one last step. They would already have been on the island after having taken the north. He would surely have marched south through the rest of the island, Irelands rich agricultural lands would have gone a long way to keeping the German troops well fed. Strategically taking Ireland before Britain had fallen would have allowed him to attack on 2 fronts, splitting the British defences such as the RAF and Navy. With the benefit of hindsight it's easy to look back and say this and that should have been done. The Irish government may have looked at the war and thought it inevitable that Britain would lose against the might of the German army, therefor chose to not upset their soon to be new neighbours.

maryishere

donegaLroad wrote: »

Russia played a much larger part in defending us from all that.

If Britain had fallen in 1940, or had not defended us, we would have been invaded by Nazi Germany long before Hitler turned on Russia. The UK sent many convoys of supplies to Russia to help them defeat Germany. The father of an Irish person I know served on those arctic convoys, as did some other Irish men.
I remember hearing it was so cold that if you touched metal with your bare hands, they stuck to it. The weather was awful and there was a constant threat of submarines and they lost many ships.

Do not forget Nazi Germany's invasion of other neutral countries like Denmark and Norway on 9 April 1940—then other neutral countries like Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg on 10 May 1940. Do you know how those countries Jews, gays, communists etc fared in the concentration camps? Or how those countries men were worked in slave labour factories?

degrassinoel

RobertKK wrote: »

Hitler had a plan for invading Ireland.

Case green was the name for it, some people know it as operation emerald or operation green. Apparently there were pamphlets printed for the invasion force and all, and apparently in those pamphlets there were instructions on how to deal with Irish people, specifically mentioning not to piss them off when they're in the pub.

Zebra3

maryishere wrote: »

If Britain had fallen in 1940, or had not defended us, we would have been invaded by Nazi Germany long before Hitler turned on Russia. The UK sent many convoys of supplies to Russia to help them defeat Germany. The father of an Irish person I know served on those arctic convoys, as did some other Irish men.
I remember hearing it was so cold that if you touched metal with your bare hands, they stuck to it. The weather was awful and there was a constant threat of submarines and they lost many ships.

Do not forget Nazi Germany's invasion of other neutral countries like Denmark and Norway on 9 April 1940—then other neutral countries like Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg on 10 May 1940. Do you know how those countries Jews, gays, communists etc fared in the concentration camps? Or how those countries men were worked in slave labour factories?

Don’t forget about Britain invading and occupying neutral India for over a century and allowing millions of natives to starve to death. Something that never bothered the rabid supremacist that was Winston Churchill.

And let us not forget Britain’s war against China in an attempt to turn the Chinese people into drug addicted.

Strange that some people only mention crimes against white European people and don’t seem so bothered about crimes against Asians.

A Little Pony

Zebra3 wrote: »

maryishere wrote: »

Nazi Germany had a history of invading neutral countries, deporting its Jews, homosexuals, communists, gypsies etc to concentration camps and using its menfolk as slaves in factories for the Nazi war effort.
The UK and its allies defended us from all that.

Respect to the 120,000 people from the island of Ireland who volunteered and served with the British war effort.

Britain has a far longer history of invading neutral countries, ethnically cleansing the locals, committing genocide, engaging in land theft, sending people off to concentration camps, to name but a few of their crimes.

Respect to all those Irish people who resisted the pressure to join Britain’s war on Germany.

It was stopping Nazi tyranny over Europe. What can you possibly argue against? The Irish state should have joined the Allied effort, to the eternal shame they didn't.

murphthesmurf

Zebra3 wrote: »

Don’t forget about Britain invading and occupying neutral India for over a century and allowing millions of natives to starve to death. Something that never bothered the rabid supremacist that was Winston Churchill.

And let us not forget Britain’s war against China in an attempt to turn the Chinese people into drug addicted.

Strange that some people only mention crimes against white European people and don’t seem so bothered about crimes against Asians.

How does what England did in the 1800's somehow belittle what Nazi Germany did . Anyone involved in what England did back then were all long dead before WW2 began. There was also French, Danish, and Dutch in India, guess Nazi Germany invading them was just karma then.

maryishere

Zebra3 wrote: »

Don’t forget about Britain invading and occupying neutral India for over a century .

And the Indians were so grateful for the civilisation, railways, legal system, industry etc that Britain brought that they volunteered over two and a half million soldiers to fight under British command against the Axis powers. The financial, industrial and military assistance of India formed a crucial component of the British campaign against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. As wiki says, after the end of the war, India's emerged as the world's fourth largest industrial power and its increased political, economic and military influence paved the way for its independence from the United Kingdom in 1947