Drayton wiser heating controls

tandcapply

Hi,

I was just looking at:Drayton Wiser Thermostat Kit 3 – Zoned Heating & Hot Water
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Thermostat-Kit-Heating/dp/B075GNJ7ZN/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8&th=1
199GBP self install.

Good reviews but seems too new to me.
Any one knows if it's any good?
I've a downstairs,upstairs hot water with basic digital 3 channel programmer setup, and looking for something simple and only care about turning hot water remotely.

mcrtchly

I've got one of these on order from Amazon and 2 wifi thermostatic valves. Will let you know how it works when I've installed it. One problem through is getting the App which is only available for my iPhone on the UK Apple Store. I had to set up a second AppleID with a UK address and different email and then login as this new ID to download the wiser heat app

Martin

tandcapply

mcrtchly wrote: »

I've got one of these on order from Amazon and 2 wifi thermostatic valves. Will let you know how it works when I've installed it. One problem through is getting the App which is only available for my iPhone on the UK Apple Store. I had to set up a second AppleID with a UK address and different email and then login as this new ID to download the wiser heat app

Martin

Thanks, let me know how you get on.
I couldn't figure out the wiring from my current 3 zone programmer set up so still holding off.
Not a chance of an installer in Ireland yet.

eoghan1985

mcrtchly wrote: »

I've got one of these on order from Amazon and 2 wifi thermostatic valves. Will let you know how it works when I've installed it. One problem through is getting the App which is only available for my iPhone on the UK Apple Store. I had to set up a second AppleID with a UK address and different email and then login as this new ID to download the wiser heat app

Martin

How did you get on with this. I was about to buy this but I couldnt find app in android store. I tried emailing support but they haven't got back to me (only been a few hours to be fair). Apart from that it seems very keenly priced. How are you finding it as a whole

tandcapply

eoghan1985 wrote: »

How did you get on with this. I was about to buy this but I couldnt find app in android store. I tried emailing support but they haven't got back to me (only been a few hours to be fair). Apart from that it seems very keenly priced. How are you finding it as a whole

You'll need to google drayton wiser heat app apk and get v2.4 installed manually on your devices

eoghan1985

tandcapply wrote: »

You'll need to google drayton wiser heat app apk and get v2.4 installed manually on your devices

Where can you find the APK file. I asked tech support and they told me they do not offer it outside Playstore. Also told me that they will not support system outside of the UK until official release in Ireland.

eoghan1985

I must have been missing something before when I typed it into Google cause when you type in "drayton wiser heat app apk" it brings up apkpure.com which has it for download. I presume it's the right app anyway, can't really tell without setting up an account, for which you need the hardware.

Now question remains... Is it worth buying the kit?

tandcapply

eoghan1985 wrote: »

I must have been missing something before when I typed it into Google cause when you type in "drayton wiser heat app apk" it brings up apkpure.com which has it for download. I presume it's the right app anyway, can't really tell without setting up an account, for which you need the hardware.

Now question remains... Is it worth buying the kit?

In my opinion it is worth it.
I was intentionally looking for a solution that doesn't have Geolocation and etc.
I was looking for hot water remote control mostly as I don't use schedules.
It was also on Lightening sale on Amazon so got it for 140gbp delivered

bk

tandcapply wrote: »

In my opinion it is worth it.
I was intentionally looking for a solution that doesn't have Geolocation and etc.

Just FYI, you don't need to use Geolocation with most Smart Thermostats. It is just an option that you can use if you want, but don't have to.

For instance my Netatmo has geolocation, but I don't use it, I have it turned off. I just set a schedule which I can override with the app when I want, for instance when I'm out. I'm not a big fan of geofencing myself either.

tandcapply

bk wrote: »

Just FYI, you don't need to use Geolocation with most Smart Thermostats. It is just an option that you can use if you want, but don't have to.

For instance my Netatmo has geolocation, but I don't use it, I have it turned off. I just set a schedule which I can override with the app when I want, for instance when I'm out. I'm not a big fan of geofencing myself either.

Appreciate, but in my opinion you could never really turn off geolocation.
Ever heard of Google takeout?
Even if gps etc is switched off you can see where you were in the last 30 days if youve google android device.
I'm most worried about security and privacy.

Btw, I'm working in IT security since the late 90s

bk

That is serious tin foil hat stuff!

I'm a software engineer myself with many years experience.

The geolocation stuff is not built into the thermostats, they don't have GPS, it is built into the thermostat control app on your phone.

You can use your phones built in privacy options to disable the apps access to geolocation. iOS is better at this then Android.

Of course whether you trust Apple/Google is a different matter. But it is unlikely they are passing on your location info to the thermostat apps without your permission. Even if Google happens to be tracking you for their own purposes.

Since this feature is in the app, their is nothing stopping Drayton adding the feature in a future app update and in fact I expect they will, every other company has it.

So you really aren't saving yourself from anything by making this choice.

tandcapply

bk wrote: »

That is serious tin foil hat stuff!

I'm a software engineer myself with many years experience.

The geolocation stuff is not built into the thermostats, they don't have GPS, it is built into the thermostat control app on your phone.

You can use your phones built in privacy options to disable the apps access to geolocation. iOS is better at this then Android.

Of course whether you trust Apple/Google is a different matter. But it is unlikely they are passing on your location info to the thermostat apps without your permission. Even if Google happens to be tracking you for their own purposes.

Since this feature is in the app, their is nothing stopping Drayton adding the feature in a future app update and in fact I expect they will, every other company has it.

So you really aren't saving yourself from anything by making this choice.

You're missing some of the point:
1. Privacy/security -
The Drayton wiser hub has it's own Wifi network which I've allowed via my Firewall to my LAN IPs and is Mac Address filtered to our phones / tablets over the web.
This system is not allowed togoing nowhere to any cloud. I've a HP Homeserver running Hyper-V with Linux Firewall VM. yu could probably do this with ISP router to an extent.

2. Ease of control / clutter -
It has no separate hub or relay, all in one, simple swap of the old Programmer (with some rewiring to make the new backplane, it took me 5 minutes to have it up). No relay or other box or even need for external power.

bk

tandcapply wrote: »

You're missing some of the point:
1. Privacy/security -
The Drayton wiser hub has it's own Wifi network which I've allowed via my Firewall to my LAN IPs and is Mac Address filtered to our phones / tablets over the web.
This system is not allowed togoing nowhere to any cloud. I've a HP Homeserver running Hyper-V with Linux Firewall VM. yu could probably do this with ISP router to an extent.

Right, fair enough, but that is completely different then what you were talking about in relation to geo-fencing.

BTW What are you running on your phone to control this so? Are you still using the official Wiser phone app? Can you still control your heating outside of your home?

tandcapply wrote: »

2. Ease of control / clutter -
It has no separate hub or relay, all in one, simple swap of the old Programmer (with some rewiring to make the new backplane, it took me 5 minutes to have it up). No relay or other box or even need for external power.

Huh?! The Drayton comes with a separate Heat Hub, similar to most other smart thermostats.

Netatmo and Nest work in the same way as your Drayton Heat Hub, they just call it something different, you unscrew the programmer and screw in the relay (Netatmo's name) or heat link (Nest's name) where the programmer was.

tandcapply

bk wrote: »

Right, fair enough, but that is completely different then what you were talking about in relation to geo-fencing.

BTW What are you running on your phone to control this so? Are you still using the official Wiser phone app? Can you still control your heating outside of your home?



Huh?! The Drayton comes with a separate Heat Hub, similar to most other smart thermostats.

Netatmo and Nest work in the same way as your Drayton Heat Hub, they just call it something different, you unscrew the programmer and screw in the relay (Netatmo's name) or heat link (Nest's name) where the programmer was.

Hub - the digital wall programmer that I had for the zones was replaced with the Hubr. No relay or anything powered externally like the nest and etc for any number of zones was required.

App - I still use the Wiser app, I had to Google search for the apk for my Android devices (Download Wiser Heat latest 2.5.0 Android APK), but was easy enough.
Once you connect to the WiserHeat wifi. Only limitation that it only allows one user at a time - the Mrs
GeoLocation - while using cloud service like other Smart heating controls, location information from your phone and etc are stored on public servers.
Looks like this (from trustedreviews):https://ksassets.timeincuk.net/wp/uploads/sites/54/2017/10/Wiser-heating-app-2.png

bk

tandcapply wrote: »

Hub - the digital wall programmer that I had for the zones was replaced with the Hubr. No relay or anything powered externally like the nest and etc for any number of zones was required.

Just like both Netatmo and Nest. Exactly the same.

Your Drayton Heat Hub is powered by the boiler, as was your programmer and as is the Netatmo Relay and Nest Heat Link. As in they are 100% the same thing.

tandcapply wrote: »

App - I still use the Wiser app, I had to Google search for the apk for my Android devices (Download Wiser Heat latest 2.5.0 Android APK), but was easy enough.
Once you connect to the WiserHeat wifi. Only limitation that it only allows one user at a time - the Mrs
GeoLocation - while using cloud service like other Smart heating controls, location information from your phone and etc are stored on public servers.
Looks like this (from trustedreviews):https://ksassets.timeincuk.net/wp/uploads/sites/54/2017/10/Wiser-heating-app-2.png

Can I ask, are you using the wiser app to control the heat using the app outside of your home? As in off wifi, on 3/4G?

tandcapply

bk wrote: »

Just like both Netatmo and Nest. Exactly the same.

Your Drayton Heat Hub is powered by the boiler, as was your programmer and as is the Netatmo Relay and Nest Heat Link. As in they are 100% the same thing.



Can I ask, are you using the wiser app to control the heat using the app outside of your home? As in off wifi, on 3/4G?

Yes, I use it outside on mobile, I've an inbound firewall rule to it. Their hub has an ip on my lan so I can nat to it easily.

Btw, I'm nearly sure that nest at least has an external relay/heat link for each heating zone as in a useless ugly box on the wall:
http://www.briandorey.com/docs/2015-12-04-nest-thermostat-install/06-heat-link-and-relay-box.jpg

On the wiser I have some functionality similar to my old programmer from it and it covers the same surface and doesn't look retrofitted on the wall

bk

tandcapply wrote: »

Yes, I use it outside on mobile, I've an inbound firewall rule to it. Their hub has an ip on my lan so I can nat to it easily.

I hate to break it to you so, it absolutely is using a cloud service, the same as Netatmo, Tado, Nest, etc.

It is doing:

Wiser Heat Hub -> Your wifi -> Your broadband -> Wiser "cloud" web servers -> Wiser App on Android.

It has to be using a cloud server. How else could the app connect the heat hub? The heat hub is hidden behind your ISP issued dynamic IP address.

At the very least your heat hub, is pinging Wisers cloud servers to tell the cloud server your current public IP address and in reality it is most likely routing all commands between the wiser app and your heat hub via the cloud servers.

Given that they also have Amazon Echo support, it has to communicate via cloud servers with that too.

It pretty much the same way most IoT devices work and the same as Nest/Netatmo/Tado, etc. You aren't any more private using Wiser, then you are using any other service.

Reading the wiser manual, the setup is like this:
- The wiser heat hub creates a temporary wifi network.
- You connect your phone to this temporary wifi network
- You enter your homes wifi username and password in the wiser app
(BTW if you are worried about privacy/sceurity, this part above is pretty poor, if wiser wanted they could now send your wifi username and password to their servers).
- Your Heat hub now connects to your wifi using the supplied username/password - Your Heat hub now calls out to the wiser cloud web servers and shares data with it.
- Your wiser app now connects to the cloud servers.

The fact that you set up some rules in your firewall is pretty meaningless, the Heat hub has poked a hole out of your network and is communicating with the wiser cloud servers.

I'm afraid their is nothing particularly special in terms of privacy about Wiser, it absolutely is using a cloud server, same as Nest, Netatmo, Tado, etc.

BTW as an aside, you said you had to download the Wiser APK from the web. From a security/privacy perspective, that is a pretty terrible idea to download APK's from anywhere but the official Google Play Store. Their is nothing stopping someone putting extra code in the APK to spy on your phone or steal details.

Now this one is probably ok, but if your really are serious about privacy/security, then this is pretty bad practice.

tandcapply wrote: »

Btw, I'm nearly sure that nest at least has an external relay/heat link for each heating zone as in a useless ugly box on the wall:
http://www.briandorey.com/docs/2015-12-04-nest-thermostat-install/06-heat-link-and-relay-box.jpg

On the wiser I have some functionality similar to my old programmer from it and it covers the same surface and doesn't look retrofitted on the wall

The box in the above picture, is the Nest Heat Link and it is exactly the same as your Heat Hub, it directly replaces the programmer.

Fair enough, it is a different shape then your old programmer, so it might not be as neat a fit for your existing programmer, that is certainly a valid point. Though not everyone has a programmer the same shape and size. And of course depending on where the boiler and programmer are, it might not really matter.

Also BTW Tado also has an optional Extension box which is the same shape and size as the Wiser Heat Hub.

Sheepless

I have the wiser controller but I cannot get the app to register with the controller. Drayton support told me to use a UK address as Ireland is not supported and registration will fail if I use my Irish address. But even when I try that, the app registers but fails to connect to the controller through the cloud. After a failed registration, I have to get support to delete my account before trying again
I can put the controller into wifi-hub mode and set it up from the app. The room thermostats work fine. So it all works except the app so it's not too bad, just annoying.
Anyone in south of Ireland get this to work?

eoghan1985

Sheepless wrote: »

I have the wiser controller but I cannot get the app to register with the controller. Drayton support told me to use a UK address as Ireland is not supported and registration will fail if I use my Irish address. But even when I try that, the app registers but fails to connect to the controller through the cloud. After a failed registration, I have to get support to delete my account before trying again
I can put the controller into wifi-hub mode and set it up from the app. The room thermostats work fine. So it all works except the app so it's not too bad, just annoying.
Anyone in south of Ireland get this to work?

I actually used France as country. Don't ask me why I chose that but it just occurred to me to do it. Anyway I actually ended up sending it back. One of the rad eTRVs was dead on arrival and the app constantly couldn't connect to the controller which only sometimes decided to accept the commands.

gally74

hello, has anyone else installed this,

i have a motor setup 2 zones and hot water and though this kit looked good for multi zones?

bk

gally74 wrote: »

hello, has anyone else installed this,

i have a motor setup 2 zones and hot water and though this kit looked good for multi zones?

They don't officially support Ireland, while plenty of other companies do, so I'd go with one of them. Tado would be a good on to check out.

gally74

bk wrote: »

They don't officially support Ireland, while plenty of other companies do, so I'd go with one of them. Tado would be a good on to check out.

thank you, i have 2 zones and hot water so looking for something reasonable, ill check them out

bk

gally74 wrote: »

thank you, i have 2 zones and hot water so looking for something reasonable, ill check them out

Yes, Tado supports 2 zones + hot water, you will need to get the hot water kit.

Lots of discussion of it here on this thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057758281

BTW there are other options too, Evohome, etc.

gally74

I sent a Twitter to drayton, they confirmed the app for Ireland is in development,

john_doe.

gally74 wrote: »

I sent a Twitter to drayton, they confirmed the app for Ireland is in development,

Update from Drayton:

"we're working on the app version for ROI, it's all about the postcodes, and until they've developed it to include ROI its sticky in the registration phase. Currently this is looking like mid- January, so watch this space"

grogi

bk wrote: »

/.../

- You enter your homes wifi username and password in the wiser app
(BTW if you are worried about privacy/sceurity, this part above is pretty poor, if wiser wanted they could now send your wifi username and password to their servers).

You cannot seriously hold this against Drayton, as exactly same can be said about any other device that connects to (home) network. A device that connects to your (home) WiFi needs to know your WiFi key and can potentially share it with whoever it wants.

What's more, the cloud servers need not be used to synchronise the data. They might be used to advertise the location of the service and only in the event of lack of direct communication act as a relay. The smart thermostat service might also be advertised over LAN (simirarly to old SMB services or DLNA) to completely get rid of the cloud involvement.

mp3ireland2

Digging up an old thread for help. Installed a Drayton wiser today. Here is the state of play

1. When I press the set up button there is no LED flashing. There is no LED in that position at any stage. When i power up intially the other two LED's flash but none here.

2. The connection is quite tempermental to my WiFI. It takes a lot of trial and patience to get it connected. I have it connected now, however I cannot get it to connect to the cloud. I log out and log in again to try another time and I spend ages trying to get it to connect to wifi again, as when I log in it can't find the hub and i have to pretend I've changed my router and set up wifi again.

3. For some reason I cannot change my address in the app I don't get any weather info currently so wanted to change it but I can't. Are there any issues online relating to my account which may be causing all these issues? "Save failed. We're unable to save your changes right now. Please try again later".

Currently I can only control locally with my wifi. 

I have a 4g router but it's not huawei it's TP link, however its' connected to a TP link Mesh system providing the network. IT broadcasts on 2.4Ghz and 5 Ghz. A Deco S4 system.

John mac

1 did you press and hold the button . ?

2 ,whats the wifi signal like at the hub ?

have you given the hub a static address ,from you router ?

make sure its 2.4 GHz . wont work on 5 .,.

my app version is 5.3.0 build 889

was away last week and no problem controlling / seeing temps in different rooms .

tandcapply

1. Long press on mine flashes green or to indicate it's broadcasting it's temporary wifi network.
2. I ran the wizard and connect to my dedicated 2.4ghz home wifi which is 1m away from it. No issues there in years.
3. Ive opened a new account as address was wrong. Later realized that it only cares about city for showing weather

Maybe because it's UK focused and doesn't care much about IE

tandcapply

duplicate

SJOTTLEY

Hi Guys, I've been umming and ahhing about getting wiser, with the way energy prices are it seems like the right idea now! I was probably going to wait until black Friday. Reading what the website says, I'm pretty sure I need a thermostat kit 3 as I currently have two thermostats.

But I'm not sure how many radiator thermostats to get, should I have one for every room? Or would getting one for maybe the main rooms that are used suffice?