Now Ye're Talking - to a Professional Poker Player

Boards.ie: Niamh

Some of you asked to hear from a professional poker player and that is just what our next guest is. Known in the poker world as Doke, Dara O'Kearney has been playing live and online poker professionally for a number of years in a variety of locations around the world, most recently Las Vegas and Tallinn.

Ask him your questions here!

flatty

Do you use "gut instinct" much, if at all, or is it all odds based?
Thanks for this.
Is it your only source of income, and is it stressful and draining in general?
(I don't play much myself, just wondered)
Final, and probably stupid question, are the rules always the same, or do you encounter different versions of the game in different places?

miamee

Do you prefer to play the online version or a live game? Is one easier than the other? Is uppose being face to face with other players can help, cam it? I don't know much about poker but you often hear about people having a 'tell' whichi would be absent in online games.

Are there a lot of people playing professionally or is it a small enough community that you see the same people at tournaments?

endabob1

I knew someone who was a pro black jack player and said it was anything but glamorous, i assume poker is the same, casino after casino, one mediocre hotel after another, unless you are making a lot of money from it, it must be a bit of a drag. He likened it to playing on the lower rungs of something like the tennis or golf circuits, lots of people making enough to get on to the next event, chasing one elusive big breakthrough
What's your take on the "Circuit"

Like black jack poker is a lot of statistics and figuring out the odds on any given hand, we're you particularly good at maths?

Sabre0001

In a typical day, how long do you play online for? What's the longest you've ever spent online?

Is there such a thing as a practice routine / what else, aside from playing, do you do to get better at Poker, reading situations, etc.?

What are your most memorable moments?

What have been some of your nerviest moments?

What's your favourite national and international event on the calendar?

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare

When did you eventually decide to go pro at it and what were the major influencing factors?

doke

flatty wrote: »

Do you use "gut instinct" much, if at all, or is it all odds based?
Thanks for this.

The answer to this has changed over the years. At the start before I knew much about the game technically, I'd say it was roughly 80% instinct 20% calculation at the time. I then learned the game technically by studying it away from the table to work out the odds in spots I was unsure. The stages of learning I would characterise as:
(1) realising I don't know the correct mathematical answer in a given situation at the table
(2) working it out either at the table or, if not possible, afterwards away from the table
(3) actively recalling the answer at the table when it next arose
(4) over time the situation repeating itself often enough that the solution goes into my subconscious memory so I just instinctively know it without having to actively work anything out or even recall it

If we call stage 4 "instinct" (albeit one arrived at via the math) then these days it's 95% instinct and 5% math. If we call it math, then it's 5% instinct 95% math.

Is it your only source of income, and is it stressful and draining in general?
(I don't play much myself, just wondered)

Poker is my only source of income, but not just playing it. I have other poker related income from coaching (30% roughly), sponsorship deals (20%), and writing (1%).

It's definitely stressful and draining. I'm a tournament player and even winning long term players have more losing days than winning days. That coupled with the fact that in the short term your results depend far more on blind luck than how good you do your job is difficult for the human mind to handle. Imagine a job where you do it perfectly on any given day, but your salary is unrelated to that and is determined by the spin of the wheel. And the daily wage is usually minus.

Final, and probably stupid question, are the rules always the same, or do you encounter different versions of the game in different places?

No, it's a good question. The rules change slightly from country to country and even casino to casino (or online site to online site), but nothing major.

Thank you for your questions

Gloomtastic!

What do your mum and dad think of your chosen profession?

How far ahead are you working - specific tournament next year, publish another book in 18 months etc etc?

When playing with real money/chips, what's the most you've won in a single game and lost in a single game?

tevey08

Which area of a tournament do you find the hardest, begin, middle, bubble/late stages or final table?

Do you ever let lose in a game and play incorrectly or have you perfected your game so much that you rarely make a mistake or go on tilt.

Have you invested any of you earnings outside of poker and are you currently setup for life?

doke

miamee wrote: »

Do you prefer to play the online version or a live game?

I prefer online, but I enjoy live as a break.

Is one easier than the other?

For most people, yes. I find online easier because I enjoy being in the comfort of my own home in a controlled environment, without the distraction of other people, and with enough decisions that I have no mental down time during which my mind can wander. Live, I struggle with boredom and maintaining focus (live I probably have to make something like 30 decisions an hour, 29 of them routine, whereas online it's more like 1200), and while most players are fun to be with, a small minority are obnoxious people I would never willingly choose to spend time with. But at a poker table, you're stuck with whoever is there. I also don't really enjoy the ambience of most casinos and cardrooms: I would literally never visit a casino if I wasn't a poker player.

Other people find the lack of social interaction online difficult and prefer live for that reason. Many find it hard to give online the same focus as live: it becomes just a game on a screen and they click buttons without the same thought they would give at a physical table with real cards chips and people.

Is uppose being face to face with other players can help, cam it? I don't know much about poker but you often hear about people having a 'tell' whichi would be absent in online games.

What you are referring to, physical tells, is indeed part of the live game (though not as big as most non players think).

There are other tells too though, which can apply equally to online and live. For example, a player may bet small when they have a good hand and big when they are bluffing, or vice versa (a bet sizing tell). Or they may bet quickly when they have a strong hand (which they don't need to think about betting) and slower when bluffing (when they need to decide whether to bluff or not): a timing tell.

Are there a lot of people playing professionally or is it a small enough community that you see the same people at tournaments?

It's grown over the years but in Ireland still small enough that I see mostly the same people. When I started ten years ago I'd say there were no more than 10 true professionals (making a good living solely from poker) whereas nowadays I'd guess the number is about 100.

I mainly play abroad these days, so there I obviously see new faces. Though even somewhere like the UK, I would tend to know more people than I don't.

Thank you for your questions

Rigmincedeal

Hi Dara,

I'm a recreational player and find online quite difficult for reasons you have mentioned affect some people, no social interaction, far easier to make mistakes and lose concentration. I always think it must be a talent to multitable an online grind and keep your sanity. I only play my best poker by a long way when I am at a live table.

As a pro we know you are a bit of a satelite king but do you feel as you have moved up the levels (higher stakes) things get far easier? I know people will assume at the higher stake tournaments the opposition will be tougher but is this all offset with the smaller fields helping you in the long run variance wise? Example the likes of fedor playing every high roller event available with small fields, would he be half as successfull if he dropped down to the lower levels? Intersested to have your thoughts on this

sporter1

What is your average buy in for tournaments? And how many games do you play at once online it must be tough on your eyes?

scudzilla

We've all had bad beats, what's your worst??

tayto lover

What's the largest amount of money you've seen in an Irish school?
When you travel do you go on your own?
Have you a stack put away for bad times?
How would you explain you're line of work to a bank manager if you were seeking a loan for a mortgage etc?

doke

endabob1 wrote: »

I knew someone who was a pro black jack player and said it was anything but glamorous, i assume poker is the same, casino after casino, one mediocre hotel after another, unless you are making a lot of money from it, it must be a bit of a drag. He likened it to playing on the lower rungs of something like the tennis or golf circuits, lots of people making enough to get on to the next event, chasing one elusive big breakthrough
What's your take on the "Circuit"

Like black jack poker is a lot of statistics and figuring out the odds on any given hand, we're you particularly good at maths?

The live poker scene is very much like that, and to be honest if online poker disappeared tomorrow and that became my only option I think I'd retire. Apart from the fact I enjoy it more, online is just far more reliable as a sustained income. As a winning tournament player, you can run badly and lose money over a sample size of 2000. That's not as big a deal online if you are playing 20,000 tournaments a year, but live where you might only play 50-100, huge deal.

Luckily online has accounted for over 90% of my profit over my career so a bad patch or even year live didn't bother me as much, and I can pick and choose which events I want to play based on location and who will be there, and I'm not compelled to take the cheapest hotel options.

Like blackjack, poker can become very boring once you've mastered it as it's essentially endless repetition. One difference though is the stakes escalate. You can enter a tournament for $200 and by the end be making decisions for 100s of thousands.

Another crucial difference is poker is not too top heavy in terms of rewards. The best golfer in the world obviously earns way more than the best poker player. By the time you get down to the 100th best, however, it's levelled out. By the time we reach my levels (300th or whatever) the poker player is definitely earning more. By the time we get to 10,000th, way more.

But it's undeniably true the pro lifestyle is a lot duller and more mundane than people imagine.

On maths, I've always been good. A in Honour level Leaving, 12th in world in contest for gifted kids when I was 12.

Thank you for your questions.

HONKEY TONK

Did you ever get frustrated with the conduct of another player in a tournament and if so, what happened?

bucketybuck

As somebody who once paid the bills by playing online cash games, for about a year back ten years ago, all I can say is that you have my pity. I went from loving poker to getting sick at the very thought of it. I especially don;t know how you can stick playing it now considering some of the changes in the player base over the past few years.

Anyway, a random question, what do you think of Phil Ivey losing his court case? Did you agree with him?

tricky D

flatty wrote: »

Final, and probably stupid question, are the rules always the same, or do you encounter different versions of the game in different places?

If I may answer this as a former tournament director...

There are no definitive rules of the game. There are widely used versions like Roberts Rules but nothing official. Rulings should be as consistent, fair and as 'good for the game' as possible.

Some common variations:

• Some rules call for a redeal if any player's first card gets turned over at the deal; others might redeal if any card gets turned over during the deal; some will carry on if the turning is the player's fault eg. fingers in the way, as players have a duty to protect their hands.
• Some rules use the 3rd card from the bottom as replacement card but more often it is one of the burn cards, which defeats the purpose of the burn card.
• Some raising structures differ with some requiring that a proper raise is twice the previous bet and others requiring it be twice the previous raise. Eg. 10 - 30 - 60 - 120 vs 10 - 30 - 50 - 70

Then stuff that is more protocol than rules eg. how the seating arrangements are determined, chipping up policy, phone usage, language, who can talk and when/speech play...


Then there are the variants in both betting (no limit, pot, limit...) and formats (Texas Hold 'Em, Omaha, Draw and Stud types to name a few) and sometimes combinations of formats like Round of Each which typically would Omaha and Hold Em. /keeping it simple


########



Back to the AMA proper: do you have and if so what are your guiding principles? Eg. I'm a big fan of the patience, discipline and money management mantra.


When you turned pro, were you staked or was it all your own?


Do you stake other players? What kind of deals? Basic 50/50 or...? Do you buy percentages off other players much/at all?


Cheers

fatguy

Do you think I could have made it as a pro if I'd really tried?

Andy

Liam McPoyle

What online site do you use?

Have you ever gotten a Royal flush in live play and if so did you get paid?

Do you play at the same stakes religiously or mix it up depending on how the day is going?

Who is you favourite pro poker player and why?

What do you think of players like Phil Laak that would be perceived as being loose with their cards, is it just part of their image or do they generally play with a huge variation of hands?

Have you ever played in the main event of the WSOP?

If, did you buy in or satellite?

If so, what's you best finish?

What's the longest non stop session you've played, either online or live?

Favourite casino in Vegas?

Favourite casino in the world?

Dice75

It seems to me that the majority of people who can make a viable career out of poker are the level-headed grinder types with little side leaks.

How do you find the Irish psyche of partying and gambling (sports/casino etc) has affected the numbers coming through the last 10 years that have actually made it as a sustainable career compared to European/worldwide players, or is it the same over?

What % of a professional poker players ability is bankroll managment?

Do you have a timeline in your head as to how long you intend to keep it as your main earner?

Do you offer up your profession easily in outside company or are the subsequent questions too much of a pain!?

ty

doke

Sabre0001 wrote: »

In a typical day, how long do you play online for?

On a weekday, 8-14 hours.

On Sunday, 14-20 hours.

What's the longest you've ever spent online?

20 hours is the longest I remember.

Is there such a thing as a practice routine / what else, aside from playing, do you do to get better at Poker, reading situations, etc.?

Very good question: this is something which has become more important down the years.

Aside from playing, I listen to podcasts, watch training videos and other online content, read books, use software to analyse my own play and that of others, review my play and that of others with a study buddy, discuss strategy with a group of pro players. I also meditate and do some other mental preparation before playing, and I put a lot of effort into staying fit and eating well as I believe that's important in any performance activity.

What are your most memorable moments?

Live, I guess my biggest result, coming second in a World Series of Poker event in 2015 (which I wrote about here: http://dokearney.blogspot.ie/2015/07/what-happened-in-vegas-part-2event-45.html)

Some other highlights:
My first big live win (http://dokearney.blogspot.ie/2008/02/sleepless-and-deepstacked.html)
Playing two big live events simultaneously and final tabling both (http://dokearney.blogspot.ie/2016/09/back-to-back-to-back.html)
Being part of the winning Irish team at the European Poker championships (http://dokearney.blogspot.ie/2013/04/trophy.html
My biggest online result (http://dokearney.blogspot.ie/2013/08/a-super-tuesday-in-life-how-one-man-and.html)
Having breakfast with Teddy Sheringham and Tony Cascarino (http://dokearney.blogspot.ie/2017/05/my-new-danish-pen-pal-unibet-open.html)

What have been some of your nerviest moments?

I don't really get nervous at the poker table any more: even when I'm all in on a big final table with 6 figures in equity on the line I'm pretty stoical and ready to accept that whatever happens is now out of my control and so be it.

So I guess it's some ancillary stuff. I remember being very nervous when I flew over to London with my buddy David Lappin to interview movie star Jennifer Tilly for our podcast The Chip Race. Apart from being a big fan of hers, it was the first time we were ever filmed (https://youtu.be/i2wIy2vXG_I), my nervousness was added to by the fact that she gave up her lunch break to talk to us (she was there to promote a movie), and the room was a sweat box with all the lights, cameras and people so we actually look like we are melting.

I also got quite nervous in Coventry a few years ago when I was there for a tournament and some young hoodlums with knives tried to persuade me to give them my wallet in an underpass.

What's your favourite national and international event on the calendar?

Irish Open and World Series of Poker

Thank you for your questions.

aghern1

Hi Dara. Big fan of yours. Read most of your blogs and really enjoy them. A few of my friends want to know what is your thoughts on upswing poker and doug polk in general and in terms of giving out strategy advice?

bucketybuck

Just picking up on something in your blog, when you place high in a worlds series of poker event do they always pay you in cash there and then?

5starpool

Hi Dara,

- What would you consider to be your biggest leak now, live and online, or do you reckon your discipline has plugged as many of these are you are generally likely to do at this point?
- Have you ever played with people over a reasonable period of time and thought they were a very good player, but then surprised to hear they had quit poker because they weren't able to actually win money consistently?
- Is the firm still going?
- How much do you think your past as a runner contributed to your success as a poker player? The discipline needed must be a constant factor in the 2?
- Same question except related to your age. If you were 21 when you started playing poker, do you think you'd have had the aptitude and discipline needed to excel?
- I haven't played poker in close to 5 years I'd say, and don't really miss it, although occasionally I still consider going for a live game, but haven't bothered. Do you have an end in sight in terms of retirement nest egg for you stopping or does it depend on how the game goes in terms of success and so on?

Ta

9or10

Hi Dara, No question just wanted to say thanks for taking the time. I'm finding it facinating.

doke wrote: »

I don't really get nervous at the poker table any more: even when I'm all in on a big final table with 6 figures in equity on the line I'm pretty stoical and ready to accept that whatever happens is now out of my control and so be it.

Wow just wow. I get nervous if I put a tenner on the Grand National. I just hate losing money.

Poker - probably not a good career move for me then.

Old Perry

Hi Dara,

Thanks for your time.

I would like your thoughts on Daniel Colman. A few years ago he won 15mil in a tournament and refused to celebrate or take part in any publicity afterwards. He took a lot of criticism at the time, what do you think?

Heres the win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q6Za231h44

And a statement he released after,

I really don’t owe anyone an explanation but I’ll give one.
First off, I don’t owe poker a single thing. I’ve been fortunate enough to benefit financially from this game, but I have played it long enough to see the ugly side of this world. It is not a game where the pros are always happy and living a fulfilling life. To have a job where you are at the mercy of variance can be insanely stressful and can lead to a lot of unhealthy habits. I would never in a million years recommend for someone to try and make it as a poker pro.
It is also not a game where the amateurs are always happy to be losing their money for the sake of entertainment. The losers lose way more money at this game than winners are winning. A lot of this is money they can’t afford to lose. This is fine of course because if someone is dumb enough to gamble with money they cant afford to lose, that’s their problem. I’m not really buying that though. In a perfect world, markets are based on informed consumers making rational transactions. In reality, sadly, that’s not the case. Markets are based on advertising trying to play on peoples impulses and targeting their weaknesses in order for them to make irrational decisions. I get it if someone wants to go and play poker on their own free will, but I don’t agree with gambling being advertised just like I don’t agree with cigarettes and alcohol being advertised.
It bothers me that people care so much about poker’s well-being. As poker is a game that has such a net negative effect on the people playing it. Both financially and emotionally.
As for promoting myself, I feel that individual achievements should rarely be celebrated. I am not going to take part in it for others and I wouldn’t want it for myself. If you wonder why our society is so infatuated by individuals and their success, and being a baller, it is not that way for no reason. It is there because it serves a clear purpose. If you get people to look up to someone and adhere to the “gain wealth, forget all but self” motto, then you can get them to ignore the social contract which is very good for power systems. Also it serves as a means of distraction to get people to not pay attention to the things that do matter.
These are just my personal views. And yes, I realize I am conflicted. I capitalize off this game that targets peoples weaknesses. I do enjoy it, I love the strategy part of it, but I do see it as a very dark game.

doke

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare wrote: »

When did you eventually decide to go pro at it and what were the major influencing factors?

About a year after I started playing. I was a winning player online from day one and within a few months was making more from poker than from my previous job (I owned my own computer consultancy business). I got my first big live score about 9 months after learning the game and then set a goal (which was rather silly and artificial looking back) to get two more big live results before committing. That happened within the next two or three months so from that point forward I considered myself professional even if it took about another year to completely wind down my consultancy work.

Major deciding factors were money and a new challenge, and I really loved poker to the point of obsession. I was pretty bored with my previous job. I was also hoping it would involve less time sitting at a computer and less travel than my old job (epic fail on both those).

Thank you for your questions

doke

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

What do your mum and dad think of your chosen profession?

I'm estranged from them (not because of poker).

How far ahead are you working - specific tournament next year, publish another book in 18 months etc etc?

Roughly six months in that I know all the live events I'm going to for the next 6 months, and what my other poker goals are.

When playing with real money/chips, what's the most you've won in a single game and lost in a single game?

I'm a tournament player so the most I can lose is my buyin (entry fee), and the biggest I play is $10k, so $10k.

Biggest win was my World Series of Poker second place two years ago. Officially I was second for $260k but we had done a deal overnight on the money which grossed me $300k and we were just playing for the title. I had sold %'s to friends of all my Vegas events that year however, so I got roughly $200k net.

Thanks for your questions.

doke

tevey08 wrote: »

Which area of a tournament do you find the hardest, begin, middle, bubble/late stages or final table?

Early stages as I struggle with boredom and keeping focus. I get stronger as the tournament progresses which is fine as that's where the real equity is, but I would like to be at least a little more focused in the early stages.

This is only an issue live: I'm fine online.

Do you ever let lose in a game and play incorrectly or have you perfected your game so much that you rarely make a mistake or go on tilt.

I've definitely made mistakes although I think one of my strengths is I make fewer than most, and I can't ever remember making a big one that cost me a big tournament.

Have you invested any of you earnings outside of poker and are you currently setup for life?

My first outside investment was after my first (unsuccessful) trip to Vegas, where I lost roughly $25k. This was the first serious setback of my professional career, but I knew it had to come at some point. My wife however was a bit more concerned that I could lose so much so fast, so to set her mind at ease upon the advice of an English pro friend, I cashed out half my online profits for the year to date (roughly 100k) and put it into a safe investment. Or so I thought. Banks were supposed to be the safest of the safe, so I plumped the full 100k into a bank share, which I was assured by friends supposedly in the know was a good thing.

Unfortunately that bank was Anglo Irish Bank and within a year that investment had depreciated by 100%.

Since then I've invested in some poker enterprises, and locked up enough money in genuinely safe (interest bearing) investments to put my wife's mind at ease that her degenerate husband won't blow it all on the turn of a card. Not rich but I guess if poker disappeared tomorrow I'd have enough to get through the rest of my life. Maybe not living lavishly but I don't do that anyway

loub555

Hi Dara,

Thanks for doing this!

Your work ethic and results are incredible. I did your webinar recently and my satellite results are already significantly better- so ty

To stay at the top like you have for so long takes so much time and effort. I genuinely want to know how you balance play, travel, sleep, study, fitness & family/social life. How do you manage your time? Do you have any routine & do you struggle with your sleep pattern being out of whack after a long session/deep runs?

What's the best snippet of advice you have for a low stakes mtt grinder trying to move up?

In your opinion, why are there so few Irish female poker players? Do you think participation rates can/will increase eventually?