Eircode - Why did they bother?

spurious

Genuinely never understood why they just didn't use the Loc8 system that was already there, working, and could pinpoint not just buildings, but exact locations.

Presume it being Ireland there was some sort of shenanigans involved.

Junkyard Tom

I fax my Eircode number to people all the time.

worded

It’s so every property can be taxed, Govt loves them
Codes

TheChizler

spurious wrote: »

Genuinely never understood why they just didn't use the Loc8 system that was already there, working, and could pinpoint not just buildings, but exact locations.

Presume it being Ireland there was some sort of shenanigans involved.

Loc8 is a algorotmically derived grid reference, not a postcode. Handy in its own right but not in the sorting of post.

gctest50

spurious wrote: »

Genuinely never understood why they just didn't use the Loc8 system that was already there, working, and could pinpoint not just buildings, but exact locations.
..............

what3words works, without the rantings of yer man running Loc8

It's part of the eircode / auto address app :

https://app.autoaddress.ie/

‘15 Ammanford Road and 50 Ammanford Road are hard for a voice system to distinguish between and many house names and road names aren’t unique. There are 14 different Church Roads in London, and 632 Juarez streets in Mexico City. Street addresses also use thousands of non-dictionary words, the pronunciation of which can be near impossible to guess. The town of Godmanchester, is actually pronounced ‘Gumster’. Mercedes-Benz is known for innovation, so it’s no surprise to us that it is the first automotive company to integrate our system into their vehicles’.

kurtainsider

__..__ wrote: »

We had to call the gardai one and I have the Eircom as the house I was living in at the time was in a rural area. I got a phone call about 3 hours later saying they couldn't find the house. I had to spend 20 minutes on the phone with the gardai in the car to help them get to the house.
Put it in google maps and it points right to the house. Sure the crime was a cold case file by then.

Did it occur to you at all that they couldn't be arsed to find your house? They'll get their pay each month and their good pension whether they find your house or not.

longgonesilver

Foggy Jew wrote: »

At the height of Storm Ophelia, my chimney went on fire. (Nobody told me about downdrafts etc). I was horrified at the thought of calling out the fire brigade, knowing that they would be so busy, but as the flames and sparks coming out of the top of the chimney were getting worse, I had to phone them. I live in a rural area - no house numbers. When I got through to the Fire Service, I gave them my eircode, and they said that it was no use to them, and would I give them directions to my house. If Eircodes are not being used by the emergency services, what the heck use are they at all?

Would it be possible that with the weather conditions at the time, the problem might not be with the eircode but with the modern communications networks. Mobile networks were failing and google maps etc are not the best when offline, especially if multiple diversions might be necessary due to storm damage.

grogi

TheChizler wrote: »

Loc8 is a algorotmically derived grid reference, not a postcode. Handy in its own right but not in the sorting of post.

Eircode on its own is not applicable to sorting post either.

It might be slightly useful to AnPost, because it is reflects AnPost infrastructure at the moment, but it would be extremely irresponsible for AnPost to rely solely on it. Another layer is required between EirCode and routing. Different delivery companies need to do it anyway, as their infrastructure is not reflected in the structure of the EirCode.

When integrating with legacy systems, which were deployed before EirCode and are using natural address, the routing decision might be made based on the address associated with the code.

Newer systems might just use the geographic coordinates or direct Eircode-routing table to make a routing decision.

bloodless_coup

The amount of businesses who need directions to my house when I provide them with my estate name and house number in a city is ridiculous. Not surprised there'd be a certain amount of resistance to Eircode.

Can't understand how they are unaware of or just refuse to use any of the many technologies that points them straight to the location. (Traditional satnavs, smartphones with maps, using a web browser with Google maps, bing maps, open maps etc.)

grogi

doylefe wrote: »

The amount of businesses who need directions to my house when I provide them with my estate name and house number in a city is ridiculous. Not surprised there'd be a certain amount of resistance to Eircode.

Can't understand how they are unaware of or just refuse to use any of the many technologies that points them straight to the location. (Traditional satnavs, smartphones with maps, using a web browser with Google maps, bing maps, open maps etc.)

Because in less populated areas the address on its own is useless except for the postman. But he doesn't need the address too - she/he would deliver only based on the name...

Mountainsandh

murpho999 wrote: »

Fire services should be using Eircodes as they work.

They even work on Google Maps so no excuses.

People are against them because they are "random" instead of sequential but why anybody would need sequential postcodes is beyond me.

I would say over time as more services adopt them they will become more used as they are very convenient when used properly.

Neglecting the sequential part is telling of the intention : they were designed to be sold as databases to delivery companies, and the designers deliberately overlooked the human component, that is, in order to remember and use the codes in their every day lives, people need meaning.
I use my eircode for deliveries of online purchases, have tried offering it in other situations but drawn a blank most of the time. Poor design. Everybody should be using them by now and we're not. CQFD

namloc1980

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Neglecting the sequential part is telling of the intention : they were designed to be sold as databases to delivery companies, and the designers deliberately overlooked the human component, that is, in order to remember and use the codes in their every day lives, people need meaning.
I use my eircode for deliveries of online purchases, have tried offering it in other situations but drawn a blank most of the time. Poor design. Everybody should be using them by now and we're not. CQFD

If people can't remember 7 numbers and letters, then they have bigger problems in life than an eircode.

Wanderer78

namloc1980 wrote:

If people can't remember 7 numbers and letters, then they have bigger problems in life than an eircode.

I can't and I do just fine in life

Mountainsandh

namloc1980 wrote: »

If people can't remember 7 numbers and letters, then they have bigger problems in life than an eircode.

Well most of the population must suffer from same since Eircodes have not been commonly adopted.
But hey, don't take my word for it, ask around, not just your friends, and a broad sample of ages and population.

amtc

nelly17 wrote: »

Google Maps works with them - Id say that makes them pretty useful. Its not the fault of the Eircode system that the Emergency Services don't use it.

Edit:I suspect it has something to do with ECAS and Eir having to invest in their software to accommodate it hence it hasn't happened. In other countries when you make the call from a landline the call handlers already know the address.

ECAS is not run by eir. BT has contract

snowflaker

I love my Eircode

Mountainsandh

TheChizler wrote: »

Apart from nearly everyone in this thread. Also apart from being consulted on it, An Post had very little to do with it.

The demographics on boards are not really representative of the Irish population though.

PDVerse

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Well most of the population must suffer from same since Eircodes have not been commonly adopted.
But hey, don't take my word for it, ask around, not just your friends, and a broad sample of ages and population.

There is no need to "ask around" to prove that you're wrong. Data is available.
https://www.autoaddress.ie/blog/autoaddressblog/2017/07/08/two-years-after-launch-who-is-using-eircode

amtc

The rules relating to eircode were based on principles from a ComReg consultation in 2002. Once the formal decision to implement was taken a working group was set up including a member from each organisation who would use it. Then two different consultants were appointed, one for strategy and cosy benefit and one for implementation. An Post was consulted but so were revenue govt dept hse private operators etc.

On compliance rates NI still has lowest rates of UK postcodes. Singapore has highest worldwide.

Capt'n Midnight

grogi wrote: »

t might be slightly useful to AnPost, because it is reflects AnPost infrastructure at the moment, .

It isn't bcause AN Post have been using OCR since the 1980's

And it doesn't reflect An Post infrastructure as far as I can tell.

Because I'm Co. Dublin I got a lucky dip Eircode. My sorting office is Fonthill D22 but my post code is K for Kildare

Ages ago the sorting office was the one in Lucan which is also in Dublin.


http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/07/13/eircode-qa-things-you-need-to-know/

What will the Eircode look like?

If you can imagine playing Scrabble and Sudoku with a bunch of epileptic dolphins – exactly like that.

...
Could I just use the Eircode when posting letters?

Yeah sure. Who needs stamps or envelopes anymore, right? Eircode will do all that. Just stand facing the mirror with your post and shout ‘eircode’ five times and your letter will be posted immediately for you. Eircode can also be used to mow the lawn or unblock stubborn drains. Eircode is your friend.

GerryDerpy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It isn't bcause AN Post have been using OCR since the 1980's

And it doesn't reflect An Post infrastructure as far as I can tell.

Because I'm Co. Dublin I got a lucky dip Eircode. My sorting office is Fonthill D22 but my post code is K for Kildare

Ages ago the sorting office was the one in Lucan which is also in Dublin.


http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/07/13/eircode-qa-things-you-need-to-know/

Why do you think the K is for Kildare? North County Dublin is also a K eircode.

Jimbob1977

There was an advert on the radio a few weeks ago about the importance of eircode

In the mockup, a man had come across his elderly parent after a heart attack or serious illness.

He rang 999 and was asked his location. He said it was hard to explain the directions. The responder asked for the eircode, which was written beside the phone.

That was exactly what the ambulance needed to get within 100 metres.

Eircode has so much potential. It should be used exactly like UK postcodes. I think it will catch on in due course

The high horse brigade

As Peter Kay says "Garlic bread, bread with garlic in it, it'll never catch on"....


For those who don't get it http://www.downtowninbusiness.com/garlic-bread-itll-never-take/

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It isn't bcause AN Post have been using OCR since the 1980's

And it doesn't reflect An Post infrastructure as far as I can tell.

Because I'm Co. Dublin I got a lucky dip Eircode. My sorting office is Fonthill D22 but my post code is K for Kildare

Ages ago the sorting office was the one in Lucan which is also in Dublin.


http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/07/13/eircode-qa-things-you-need-to-know/

K isn't for Kildare any more than A is for Dundalk!

Capt'n Midnight

GerryDerpy wrote: »

Why do you think the K is for Kildare? North County Dublin is also a K eircode.

I believe my exact words were I got a lucky dip Eircode.

If eircodes were supposed to be in any way geographic they'd have used up to D99 and perhaps the first letter of the local area.

Instead it's monetisation by obfuscation.

Have you seen a map with eircodes ??
Down near Naas there's like a million of them and other parts of the country they are huge. There is little correlation between the first three characters and the area or population.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I believe my exact words were I got a lucky dip Eircode.

If eircodes were supposed to be in any way geographic they'd have used up to D99 and perhaps the first letter of the local area.

Instead it's monetisation by obfuscation.

Have you seen a map with eircodes ??
Down near Naas there's like a million of them and other parts of the country they are huge. There is little correlation between the first three characters and the area or population.

The first 3 digits relate to a sorting office code.

Mountainsandh

PDVerse wrote: »

There is no need to "ask around" to prove that you're wrong. Data is available.
https://www.autoaddress.ie/blog/autoaddressblog/2017/07/08/two-years-after-launch-who-is-using-eircode

Yeah.
Nice blog.

Of course the API thing seems to be happening mostly around Dublin, and I wonder, do you think, now take a minute to think, right, could it be a handful of delivery companies or taxis clocking up all the searches ?

Yeah. Thought so.
Not a great sample of people.

From the above website, message to their target customers :

We can batch append eircodes to your existing records. Autoaddress has the highest match rate and lowest error rate in the industry. ​Appending eircodes to your existing address records, without having to ask your customers for the information, accelerates the benefits of eircodes to your organisation at a reduced cost.

flaneur

Eircode addresses a problem that the UK system doesn't : the quirky nature of addresses in Ireland. It's a problem that the UK has too.

UK codes work very well in a big city with normal street addresses.
So you get something like 11 Park Road, W99 XY2.

However, you still get BlahBlah Ltd, Park House, Park Road, W99 VY3 which doesn't tell you exactly where that is.

Then as you get into less built up areas, it gets as bad as here.
The Priory,
Vague Place Post Town,
BT9 1X5

Continental codes usually only tell you the nearest village / post office.

France for example 33700 = 33 Gironde (a department in the southwest)
700 = Mérignac (townland where Bordeaux airport).

Meanwhile Eircode tells you exactly exactly where the location is and there's no messing around needing extra info.

It's not the most human readable but it's a fairly slick setup for 21st century location needs, which are all about using digital mapping.

I'd just equate Eircode to a geographical alphanumeric version of a phone number. It's got some geographical information, but only the full code tells you exactly what you're doing.

If we can handle landlines and mobiles with ten digit phone numbers, I'm sure Eircode will work fine!

I actually find Irish code systems have generally been fairly sensible.
The telephone numbering system here is one of the most logical I've ever seen anywhere. Most countries (including the Uk and USA) have very illogical area codes.

The car reg system works very well too, even if they're a bit long.

We're very quick to sell ourselves short.

Mountainsandh

flaneur wrote: »

Eircode addresses a problem that the UK system doesn't : the quirky nature of addresses in Ireland. It's a problem that the UK has too.

UK codes work very well in a big city with normal street addresses.
So you get something like 11 Park Road, W99 XY2.

However, you still get BlahBlah Ltd, Park House, Park Road, W99 VY3 which doesn't tell you exactly where that is.

Then as you get into less built up areas, it gets as bad as here.
The Priory,
Vague Place Post Town,
BT9 1X5

Continental codes usually only tell you the nearest village / post office.

France for example 33700 = 33 Gironde (a department in the southwest)
700 = Mérignac (townland where Bordeaux airport).

Meanwhile Eircode tells you exactly exactly where the location is and there's no messing around needing extra info.

It's not the most human readable but it's a fairly slick setup for 21st century location needs, which are all about using digital mapping.

That's fine, except where, for ease of use and for a more human approach, a combination of local/meaningful and random code may have had the same outcome, and been adopted a lot quicker.

Example like France above : 33700BSK
Much easier for my 75 year old neighbours to memorize a meaningful 33700 (same as everybody in the area, no challenge in remembering this one), and then 3 letters at the back for their specific house.
It would also come in handy for them in figuring out other people's, or services/companies' location.

As it is, they don't know their Eircode, they have even forgotten they have one. They don't use the internet.
Of note, a lot of my other rural neighbours also do not use the internet. They might call on Facebook once in a blue moon. You tell them your Eircode, they'll look at you blankly and say : "ah eh...aaalright, and what is for ?".

There's more than Dublin and the big cities on a map of Ireland.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Mountainsandh wrote: »

That's fine, except where, for ease of use and for a more human approach, a combination of local/meaningful and random code may have had the same outcome, and been adopted a lot quicker.

Example like France above : 33700BSK
Much easier for my 75 year old neighbours to memorize a meaningful 33700 (same as everybody in the area, no challenge in remembering this one), and then 3 letters at the back for their specific house.
It would also come in handy for them in figuring out other people's, or services/companies' location.

As it is, they don't know their Eircode, they have even forgotten they have one. They don't use the internet.
Of note, a lot of my other rural neighbours also do not use the internet. They might call on Facebook once in a blue moon. You tell them your Eircode, they'll look at you blankly and say : "ah eh...aaalright, and what is for ?".

There's more than Dublin and the big cities on a map of Ireland.

I call nonsense on that. I am in my 70s and very rural. I use Eircode regularly. My friends and neighbours use it too. We all find it such an improvement with regards to deliveries and emergency services. We also use it to find where a location we need to go to is. All codes in a postal area begin with the first three digits, so we only really have to note the final four digits. We can remember phone numbers, so we can remember eircodes. It is not rocket science to use and are as logical as phone numbers.