proficiency course

john jameson

Hi to all I'm just enquiring as to how I could get involved in maybe setting up my own firearms proficiency course like what is the norm when you apply for your first firearm. Iv being around firearms for quite a few years and I like to keep up to date on fire arms and accessories it's my interest and hobby so I'd like to help educate others in safe shooting any advice for me as to where to start would be great cheers in advance

Walter Mittys Brother

Let me guess you want to make easy money?

goz83

It will be difficult for anyone to beat the sterling info in the first reply, but let me (as a complete novice) give my 2 cents.

Firstly, there is no law in the ROI requiring proficiency training (as you may well know), but it seems to be fairly common for the Gardai to insist on the training as a pre-requisite to being granted a license.

So, with that said, a detailed summary of how to complete the application would be a start. Adding security requirements and recommendations, to include when 4+ firearms are licensed and when restricted firearms are being applied for.

Then it’s onto safety, proper handling, storage of firearms and ammunition, plus ammo limits and general etiquette on a range, or while transporting a firearm.

You will want a suitable location to hold the course and it obviously needs to be somewhere you won’t get hopped on by the ERU when you take out a few guns. The local pub probably is a bad idea.

I think an online course would be interesting if it included a questionnaire at the end before a cert could be issued.

Grizzly 45

AND to address the elephant in the room.
What are your qualifications to [1] dispense knowledge IE qualifications in the shooting world and teach and lecture on this?[2]Convince the powers that be IE every Super and chief Super in the land, that your course is the be and end all in qualifying utter newbies to be safe firearms handlers?So once they have done it, they can be issued a cert no trouble?Seeing that there is no set standard as to what a course must entail or for how long it must be, you can go to "Your mate down in the pub shooting school" and get him to write up that you are qualified to shoot on the back of a beer mat, after having a few shots with his gun out the backfield of the pub..And your Super could accept it. And [3] To which international standard and national standard has this course been recognised?

Don't worry, you are not the first fella here with this great idea.:)

cookimonster

To tag onto Grizzlys post:

Previous firearms use and experience would be good ......documented even better.
Previous experience in practical training as well as class room experience ...delivering theory related classes.
Access, knowledge and experience with a recognisable syllabus/ templates of training and instruction. (Guys will argue this but it's mute as there are many organisations both national and international that have syllabi for various levels of Firearms training, weather individuals like it or not).

Your biggest problems, if you want to do it right is access to suitable real estate if you plan to actulay have your students taking their first shots. You may get in with a range, some what like a food franchise in pub, but I would say most commercial ranges have this wrapped up.
Then location for class giving, you have to be careful that your not inviting a group of tugs into you front room, so to speak and I can't see the local community hall facilitating you and your firearms.

I've done NRA instructor courses (pistol, shotgun, rifle) to facilitate the formation and running of a gun club and satisfy health and safety concerns of the higher echelon in the organisation.

The certificates issued at the end of the courses have been accepted by various Garda districts around the country as proof of comptency. Often fellow Defence Force members are required to produce a firearm comptency cert regardless of their military training prior to granting of their licences and I've yet to hear one of the lads been refused on grounds of comptency when they produce the cert.

The courses and certs are not the issue if done right, it's the logistics behind them that's a problem......that is if you want to do them right.

Cass

Lads don't confuse competency with proficiency. A few have mentioned the Gardaí accepting the certs as proof of competence. Competence is a legal requirement, not proficiency.

Cass

john jameson wrote: »

.............. any advice for me as to where to start would be great cheers in advance

Not being a smart arse, but there is nothing to stop you just starting your own "school" and working away. Proficiency courses are not a legal requirement, and while you must show competency (there are four ways to do this) there is no regulation for either type of course. No regulation from the DoJ, An Gardaí, etc. Anyone can do it. It's why i have problems with them.

So in essence anyone can run a course and the Gardaí will most likely accept it as no one checks the credentials of those running any courses.

As for yourself. To allow people to even hold a firearm they must be one of two things:

• Licensed on it
• Be on a range

If they are neither then any proficiency course will be, largely, a waste of time as you are talking about teaching them to be proficient. Hard to improve or hone skills when you cannot handle a firearm.

If they have their own firearm then you still have a problem in the guise of number 2 above. You cannot target shoot outside a range. So having one, two, five or more lads shooting at targets at anywhere other than a range will land you in the sh*t.

As for the course itself. Safe handling, storage, etc. are all prerequisites of applying for a firearm. IOW you must have all this done and be shown to be competent to apply for a firearm so it's redundant to teach it to someone with a firearm. You want to teach skills/proficiency.

You need to teach (to name just a small few):

• Various legal issues surrounding firearms, types, cans and cannots, etc.
• Better handling of a firearm
• Managing recoil
• Shot placement
• Breathing
• Actually Practice shooting
• Sights/target picture
• Scopes and how properly use them/identify problems
• Identify surroundings and backstops
• Be able to identify problems people are having and work with them
• Be very, very knowledgeable in all types of firearms so be able to instruct people on problems/faults they have and to deal with any issue that arise (hang fires, AD, mechanical failure, etc)

And for hunting (again only to name a few):

• Quarry identification
• Shot placement
• Cleaning up after the shot (gralloch, etc)
• Backstops
• Safe shot or not
• Herd/quarry management

The above is only the tip of thee iceberg. I guarantee i'm missing far more topics and probably haven't even thought of some.

I've been shooting for over 30 years and have done various courses on competence, proficiency, range officer, safety officer, and have ran shoots/courses but never by myself. After all that i still would not like to be responsible for signing off on another person. To claim that they are proficient and/or safe.

I've seen lads that have been shooting for as long as me and longer and they confuse experience with knowledge/expertise. IOW they think because they've been shooting for 40 odd years they are an expert when in fact they've just been wrong, for longer.

They had no idea baout restricted vs unrestricted, how to take the bolt out of any rifle they did not own or used to own, the workings of a semi auto shotgun as they've only ever used O/U, the workings of a semi auto rifle as they've only ever had bolt action. One lad runs a blog and i used to read it from time to time. When i'd meet him on the range i'd let him know that some of his information was not only wrong, but if someone followed it they would be breaking the law. I've done this on 5 occasions that i can remember.

I wish you the very best if you decide to pursue it, but know this. To do it properly and not be a "fly by night" outfit you need to have proper land/range, credentials and knowledge.

Walter Mittys Brother

goz83 wrote: »

It will be difficult for anyone to beat the sterling info in the first reply, but let me (as a complete novice) give my 2 cents.

Firstly, there is no law in the ROI requiring proficiency training (as you may well know), but it seems to be fairly common for the Gardai to insist on the training as a pre-requisite to being granted a license.

So, with that said, a detailed summary of how to complete the application would be a start. Adding security requirements and recommendations, to include when 4+ firearms are licensed and when restricted firearms are being applied for.

Then it’s onto safety, proper handling, storage of firearms and ammunition, plus ammo limits and general etiquette on a range, or while transporting a firearm.

You will want a suitable location to hold the course and it obviously needs to be somewhere you won’t get hopped on by the ERU when you take out a few guns. The local pub probably is a bad idea.

I think an online course would be interesting if it included a questionnaire at the end before a cert could be issued.

I'm not a novice. Learned everything I know from other shooters who never charged me. I've passed on that knowledge to a lot of new shooters since. I have never nor would I look to make money from them. Local Super knows me and if I give someone a note to recommend them as competent which will be FREE they will get their licence.

Newbies giving their 2cents. That's nice.

john jameson

Thank you to all who commented on my post the picture just got a whole lot bigger and brighter at the end of the day that's what this site is all about gathering food for taught and my taughts now are to park this idea on the shelf along with the few others over the years
Thanks agen for all the info lads really appreciate it

Walter Mittys Brother

How did any of us manage before these self professed experts came along

Grizzly 45

Dont knock the guy for at least thinking of possibly a new idea.At least he is thinking...:)

Walter Mittys Brother

Apologies jj.

I'm just sick of a sport I love being commercialised more than it should be.

john jameson

Don't stop sharing- every day is a school day and it's the likes of you and others on pages like this that fills the likes of my head with all the knowledge I need to improve and share in a sport that I to love. Iv come a long way from my first rifle a marlin917 vsf 17hmr with its cheap Chinese mounts and cheap scope to my pride and joy now and what iv picked up and learned from lads like ye is unbelievable I wouldn't still be plinking away at steel when I get the chance if I didn't have the support and know how so cheers and keep sharing!!

cavan shooter

Our County runs the NARGC proficiency course once a year. Class room, coaching including and your dinner.

I Think it was €15 for someome proposed by a Club. Heavily subsidised when you think the diner i's €10, but that's the way the county wants to do it and in fairness should be done.

goz83

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

I'm not a novice. Learned everything I know from other shooters who never charged me. I've passed on that knowledge to a lot of new shooters since. I have never nor would I look to make money from them. Local Super knows me and if I give someone a note to recommend them as competent which will be FREE they will get their licence.

Newbies giving their 2cents. That's nice.

Well I am a novice/newbie. I just don't see the point in responding to an OP if all you have to say is snide. I openly pointed out that I am a novice and offered my 2 cents. I wasn't aware that there was some sort of experience barrier we had to break through before being able to give advice, or offer an opinion.

I think most of us would impart our knowledge for free when it comes to hobbies. But that shouldn't exclude someone from monetising it if there is a demand, or a need. It's called business and there's nothing wrong with it. Fair play for helping out others for FREE

Grizzly 45

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

Apologies jj.

I'm just sick of a sport I love being commercialised more than it should be.

We are all in that leaky lifeboat my man.