Seriously? Darwin Award nominees right here.

Daibheid

Anyone have any more background on this, I'm hoping there's a sensible explanation and that no one could be this stupid?

Sailors have been slammed after they had to be rescued TWICE during Hurricane Ophelia.

On Monday morning a yacht and three crew men were hauled to safety off the Rosslare coast amid the peak of the storm.


And it emerged last night that the RNLI had to rush to the very same vessel on Tuesday afternoon following a second mayday.

HeidiHeidi

Daibheid wrote: »

Anyone have any more background on this, I'm hoping there's a sensible explanation and that no one could be this stupid?

Sailors have been slammed after they had to be rescued TWICE during Hurricane Ophelia.

On Monday morning a yacht and three crew men were hauled to safety off the Rosslare coast amid the peak of the storm.


And it emerged last night that the RNLI had to rush to the very same vessel on Tuesday afternoon following a second mayday.

Jaysus......

pedroeibar1

On Tuesday I searched for some info on the rescue of that yacht and all I could find was bad reporting – on the lines of ‘the yacht tried to make port several times and failed’. Comment was that having been driven back on so many occasions they were exhausted hence the Mayday. Very odd considering that the winds were southerly. No yacht name/nationality (English in one subsequent report) , no details, no port or time/date of departure, no details of passage or destination, etc. If they went out again given the present warnings they deserve a kicking, named and shamed.

The standard of reporting on the second rescue is worse, (did it happen?) the yacht being described as a ‘ten foot yacht’ in one paper. Sanctimonious blather from the usual gombeen politicians sounding off, invariably unknowns trying to get airtime.

I’m slow to point fingers until I have full information. For example SAR was scrambled Monday for the three kitesurfers who were out having fun in regular kite conditions about 6 hours before the storm hit. The 3 were experienced, knew what they were at, were in no immediate danger, and had planned to get back in after a few hours. The big meeja moan was that they should have been ‘inside’ as advised, yet the SAR guys were called out by ‘concerned’ people who had no idea of what was going on and who also were outside, walking on the beach. Anyone remember the BS drama a few years ago about the Juniors in the Oppies hit by a squall behind the West Pier? Absolutely no safety issues, a few capsizes yet the ‘Meeja’ tried to make a huge issue out of it.

There is a line between acting the gobdaw and the hysterical rants of ‘concerned citizens’ and that line usually is unclear when we have reporting by journalists who are uneducated on most topics and totally ignorant when it comes to sailing.

nokiatom

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/2017/october/16/rosslare-harbour-rnli-rescues-3-people-during-storm-ophelia-after-yacht-mayday

pedroeibar1

It was Arklow that launched and it does not say if it was the same yacht – here
I’ve no wish to deprecate the good work done by those in Arklow, but the truth is

Arklow's all-weather lifeboat proceeded to the reported position of the sailing boat, which had reported mechanical failure.
Weather conditions were calm and dry at the time.

Very odd, considering that the boat had a mast and sails…

nokiatom

well the yacht in the first post and the yacht in the link I gave are of the same yacht and videoed by Rosslare Lifeboat

nokiatom

i got this comment from Rosslare Lifeboat today...Some of the journalism on this case is not based on any fact and is misleading

spaceHopper

nokiatom wrote: »

i got this comment from Rosslare Lifeboat today...Some of the journalism on this case is not based on any fact and is misleading

The RNLI are kind of between a rock and a hard place, they depend on public good will and favorable press coverage so they can't really speak up. They have a policy of being life saves and not enforces. If you do something incredibly dump they will still rescue you and forgive your stupidity. For your own sake they may offer advice or suggest training but they will never take a boat off somebody or seek to have the prosecuted - why? Because they reckon it will lead to people hesitating to call them and cost lives.

There is a lot of venom in some of the comments on facebook. Mostly from people who have an axe to grind or don't know anything about the sea.

nokiatom

but why is it that only the Irish Mirror has the story ?

neris

The sailing anarchy "debate" on it

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/194023-front-page-is-idiocy-a-crime/

Glencarraig

What thundering gob****e authorised dinghy sailing lessons in Dun Laoghaire this morning?

Steve

Glencarraig wrote: »

What thundering gob****e authorised dinghy sailing lessons in Dun Laoghaire this morning?

Haven't heard the real story yet, only rumours.

Anyone know any facts?

Was it a YC / INSS / just some eejit kids off their own bat?

HeidiHeidi

Steve wrote: »

Haven't heard the real story yet, only rumours.

Anyone know any facts?

Was it a YC / INSS / just some eejit kids off their own bat?

INSS were straight out with a statement saying "not us Guv"!

Steve

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

INSS were straight out with a statement saying "not us Guv"!

Heard that too.

Will have to wait for the real story on the grapevine..

elperello

http://www.thejournal.ie/sailors-junior-dun-laoghaire-harbour-rescue-3658159-Oct2017/

Looks like it was organised (chaos)!

Steve

elperello wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/sailors-junior-dun-laoghaire-harbour-rescue-3658159-Oct2017/

Looks like it was organised (chaos)!

Jury is out, I tend not to believe most of the clickbait they publish.

dmc17

Steve wrote: »

Jury is out, I tend not to believe most of the clickbait they publish.

The Dun Laoghaire Coast Guard have it posted on their Facebook page

elperello

Steve wrote: »

Jury is out, I tend not to believe most of the clickbait they publish.

I rest my case m'lud!

pedroeibar1

elperello wrote: »

I rest my case m'lud!

It’s a very weak case if it is based on the DL Coastguard link you show.

Surprisingly poor form by DLCG to just comment ‘pictures say a thousand words’; they do, and often more, particularly when they are interpreted by sanctimonious people who have no idea as indicated by the many smug, hysterical and idiotic comments posted. How many people are aware that the main image is of a rescue rib aiding a dinghy, or that the lens is clouded over/wet which makes it look worse? Look at the sea conditions in the other photographs.

For most of yesterday morning the wind was F2-3 easterly with an occasional shower. Lots of boats (dinghy and power) were on the water in DL and about a dozen surfers were at Whiterock. Judging from the various photos the fifteen dinghies had the usual rescue boats with them. All had appropriate gear- wetsuits and life vests - and appear to have been sailing in the bight of the East Pier, which was the correct place to be in an easterly. As the storm moved in, ahead of forecast, the wind went westerly very quickly and a severe series of gusts caused problems for some of the fifteen, five of them needed assistance. The others were OK and all benefited from some training /experience in heavy weather sailing in supervised conditions, a commodity that is in short supply.

elperello

This is an eye witness account from The Journal comments -

"I was running by and helped rescue one the lads. I think the main photo was of the very boat I pulled him from. Poor guys were terrified as they screamed for help. The instructor was nowhere to the seen. Visibility was terrible and everyone was scattered. As daft as I was running there I couldn’t believe anyone was out sailing. Whoever was responsible for this needs to be held accountable."

khc

The irony of all the comments on the CG page, here, journal.ie etc calling the coaches/parents/isa stupid or idiots...and surprised to see only one sailor leave a sensible comment (and an English moth sailor). They weren't young kids, or learning to sail, or with a club, and they didn't go out in adverse conditions and they were all fine afterwards. Irresponsible of the coast guard to put up a post like that. I don't know why people with no knowledge of sailing, no facts, no understanding of the situation, would be outraged enough to post anything let alone calling for huge fines, prosecutions, investigations etc

It's the george Regatta all over again. People are just morons

fishy_fishy

I'm sorry but this isn't being blown out of proportion. This isn't a repeat of the George regatta where some kids capsized during a squall and couldn't understand the fuss when they got ashore.

A coach had a bunch of small 14 and under kids out when the weather was doing exactly what was forecast and they got hit by a storm. Boats were scattered across the harbour, kids were thrown from them and were being tossed against the harbour walls and had to be rescued by passers by as well as coast guard and lifeboat, and seven boats were destroyed. These were experienced kids, and it was bad enough that seven boats are gone.

I can't stand the hand wringing public crying foul about people going for a swim or windsurfing hours in advance of a storm, but this is NOT the same thing. Part of being a responsible sea-going community is being able to admit it when some of our own get it wrong. This is one of those times. They should not have been on the water. A lot of damage was done and there's a bunch of kids who are lucky to be alive and healthy today. It could have ended so differently. Which wasn't unpredictable - the weather followed the forecast.

elperello

khc wrote: »

The irony of all the comments on the CG page, here, journal.ie etc calling the coaches/parents/isa stupid or idiots...and surprised to see only one sailor leave a sensible comment (and an English moth sailor). They weren't young kids, or learning to sail, or with a club, and they didn't go out in adverse conditions and they were all fine afterwards. Irresponsible of the coast guard to put up a post like that. I don't know why people with no knowledge of sailing, no facts, no understanding of the situation, would be outraged enough to post anything let alone calling for huge fines, prosecutions, investigations etc

It's the george Regatta all over again. People are just morons

Time to stop circling the wagons and deal with reality.

pedroeibar1

fishy_fishy wrote: »

I'm sorry but this isn't being blown out of proportion.

Reading the hyperbole and gross inaccuracies in your post you appear to have an agenda.
What bit do you not understand? DL Coastguard said
"The sailing club assisted them back in. We just assisted the helpers of the last few from the sailing club." It is understood four children had to be rescued from the boats, which were subsequently abandoned. (From the Indo)

In a rescue, the correct procedure is to concentrate on people, not the boats, and that is what happened. The ‘terrifying’ ‘dramatic’ ‘brave heroics’ photographs were of abandoned Oppies an hour or so later.

elperello wrote: »

Time to stop circling the wagons and deal with reality.

No wagons are being circled here, just a search for some accurate information, which neither you nor Fishy has yet provided. The Journal is a rag, not an acceptable source. If both of you are such experts you at least might provide some info, not cut & pasted drivel from crappy sites.

fishy_fishy

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Reading the hyperbole and gross inaccuracies in your post you appear to have an agenda.
What bit do you not understand? DL Coastguard said
"The sailing club assisted them back in. We just assisted the helpers of the last few from the sailing club." It is understood four children had to be rescued from the boats, which were subsequently abandoned. (From the Indo)

In a rescue, the correct procedure is to concentrate on people, not the boats, and that is what happened. The ‘terrifying’ ‘dramatic’ ‘brave heroics’ photographs were of abandoned Oppies an hour or so later.

No wagons are being circled here, just a search for some accurate information, which neither you nor Fishy has yet provided. The Journal is a rag, not an acceptable source. If both of you are such experts you at least might provide some info, not cut & pasted drivel from crappy sites.

Hyperbole? Agenda? The fact that they couldn't get the boats tells you how critical it was. No agenda here.

pedroeibar1

fishy_fishy wrote: »

Hyperbole? Agenda? The fact that they couldn't get the boats tells you how critical it was. No agenda here.

More armchair opinion – what about giving us some facts as requested?

Here is a piece (Lorna Siggins, IT Saturday) giving details on the Rosslare/Arklow event.

O’Rourke’s [of Rosslare Lifeboat] view is that while the sailors might have been wise to check their forecasts, they should not be punished or pilloried in the press for same. “The yacht had left Southampton, couldn’t get into Wexford harbour in the heavy seas and was right to issue the Mayday – I just wish it had issued it a bit earlier,” he says.

When the yacht left Rosslare to seek further shelter on Tuesday, and was then offered a tow by the RNLI Arklow lifeboat into the Arklow marina, there was further media criticism of the unfortunate sailors, who at that point had been acting on local advice.

Interesting that real sailors are slow to point fingers.;)

khc

With all respect fishy_fishy, I don't know anything about you but based on the last post I do know one of two things - you either a) don't sail or b) got into adult sailing and have some knowledge of the sport now - my previous point was that everyone commenting on this has no understanding of sailing/junior sailing and no facts about what happened. Even this below isn't accurate on several levels. You read an article online that was mostly guesswork and highly sensational and think you have the right to critisise those involved from behind a screen.

fishy_fishy wrote: »

A coach had a bunch of small 14 and under kids out when the weather was doing exactly what was forecast and they got hit by a storm. Boats were scattered across the harbour, kids were thrown from them and were being tossed against the harbour walls and had to be rescued by passers by as well as coast guard and lifeboat, and seven boats were destroyed. These were experienced kids, and it was bad enough that seven boats are gone.

fergal.b

Taken from https://afloat.ie/sail/isa/item/37527-optimist-team-had-weather-window-providing-reasonable-conditions-for-such-activity-isa-statement




The ISA Statement reads:

UPDATE ON OPTIMISTS IN DUN LAOGHAIRE YESTERDAY
'Sixteen Optimists were launched yesterday morning (Saturday 21 October) inside Dun Laoghaire Harbour as part of a routine high-performance training programme, along with the safety boats which are present at all training events. All usual risk assessments were undertaken before launching and the forecast was for a weather window providing reasonable conditions for such activity. A squall came in and the decision was made to send the sailors to shore immediately. The Dun Laoghaire Coast Guard and RNLI inshore boats were launched as a precaution but at that stage all the sailors were onshore. No sailor was harmed.

In circumstances like this, there are tried and tested protocols that come into effect with all bodies working together for a safe outcome. The safety of the sailors was prioritised over equipment. We are now investigating what protocols and assessments may need to be reviewed and/or revised so that we maintain all safety standards'

Following the rescue a number of the children's dinghies were left abandoned overnight in the harbour then picked up the following morning.

elperello

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Reading the hyperbole and gross inaccuracies in your post you appear to have an agenda.
What bit do you not understand? DL Coastguard said
"The sailing club assisted them back in. We just assisted the helpers of the last few from the sailing club." It is understood four children had to be rescued from the boats, which were subsequently abandoned. (From the Indo)

In a rescue, the correct procedure is to concentrate on people, not the boats, and that is what happened. The ‘terrifying’ ‘dramatic’ ‘brave heroics’ photographs were of abandoned Oppies an hour or so later.

No wagons are being circled here, just a search for some accurate information, which neither you nor Fishy has yet provided. The Journal is a rag, not an acceptable source. If both of you are such experts you at least might provide some info, not cut & pasted drivel from crappy sites.

If you read back you will notice that my "circling wagons" comment was not actually directed at you.

The links to the pictures and the eye witness account did not constitute "drivel".

Couple of more links here.

https://www.inss.ie/latest-news/statement-regarding-on-the-water-activities-saturday-21st-october-2017.1384.html

https://afloat.ie/sail/isa/item/37527-optimist-team-had-weather-window-providing-reasonable-conditions-for-such-activity-isa-statement

I wasn't there on Saturday but it is clear that something went wrong. Better to look into it, learn the lessons and move on.

Diversion like attacking posters here,the media, DLCG and "people who know nothing about sailing" is unhelpful.

khc

elperello - the "eyewitness account" was from someone walking down the pier with no idea what was going on

You weren't there on Saturday and you don't understand what happened, so why not ask? Do you not think that people making their mind up based on no understanding of the situation is illogical?

You've obviously read the ISA statement too so you've seen a clear description of what happened - I don't know why you're telling me to "deal with reality"

The INSS statement is pointless - they don't train national squads so why on earth would they have had any kids out there

elperello

khc wrote: »

elperello - the "eyewitness account" was from someone walking down the pier with no idea what was going on

You weren't there on Saturday and you don't understand what happened, so why not ask? Do you not think that people making their mind up based on no understanding of the situation is illogical?

You've obviously read the ISA statement too so you've seen a clear description of what happened - I don't know why you're telling me to "deal with reality"

The INSS statement is pointless - they don't train national squads so why on earth would they have had any kids out there

Hi khc,

Strangely enough when trying to understand items of news I tend to give some weight to eyewitness accounts. By his own account he assisted in the rescue. You could be a bit more gracious towards him.

Correct as I said I wasn't there.Are you disputing my statement that something went wrong? If you think my posts are based on a lack of understanding you should have a look at the lynch mob over on Facebook.

As for the ISA and INSS, I was asked to provide more info by another poster. Your assessment of them is an interesting contribution to our discussion.


What I mean by "dealing with reality" is I think it's best to admit things went wrong on Saturday, learn lessons and move on. Surely not an overly challenging point of view?

I note you have not referred to the comments on the Afloat site. I suspect that most posters on there have a knowledge of boating.

Tabnabs

I have seen additional footage and videos taken on the pier, stuff the ISA do certainly not want to spread into the public domain. Chaos and carnage are the two words associated with it.

A colossal FU and the ISA are furiously digging-up to try to extract themselves from the level of sewage they are in today. The poor old INSS get all the bad publicity and were forced into making a statement because it really was nothing to do with them.

khc

elperello wrote: »

I note you have not referred to the comments on the Afloat site. I suspect that most posters on there have a knowledge of boating.

like another poster said earlier - yet to see any real sailors weigh in on it.

khc

Tabnabs wrote: »

I have seen additional footage and videos taken on the pier, stuff the ISA do certainly not want to spread into the public domain. Chaos and carnage are the two words associated with it.

A colossal FU and the ISA are furiously digging-up to try to extract themselves from the level of sewage they are in today. The poor old INSS get all the bad publicity and were forced into making a statement because it really was nothing to do with them.

I was there and it was neither chaos nor carnage, that's just ridiculous.

Nothing was reported about the INSS and they didn't have to put out a statement so I assume it was for publicity, the school is brilliant

Tabnabs

The INSS did feel compelled to put out a statement as a result, this was confirmed to me by their principle.

When you have rescue boats being rescued by other boats, that is neither controlled, nor was is particularity safe in those weather conditions and certainly not a good advertisement for the ISA.

For those brushing it off like Dublin Bay mass rescue Version 2, nothing to see here. I was in a RIB out in the bay that day, towing boats back to safety and searching for any additional casualties. There was nothing over-egged about the sea state and wind conditions that day either.

khc

Unless you're CG or RNLI I don't know why you'd be out in the bay in a rib looking for boats to rescue. I also don't recall even seeing any. That would have been madness.

fishy_fishy

I love how when someone disagrees with you on here they try to imply you're inexperienced and your view is entirely invalid. I have decades of experience and started sailing in dinghies as an elbow high child.

The statement from Irish sailing is a deliberately biased piece of info - it was their training session and their coach. No doubt they're trying to minimise the amount of cr@p that lands on them.

Facts: coach took children out sailing when storm was due and weather warnings were in effect. Storm hit, kids had to be rescued (some pulled from the water by passers by on the pier) and several boats are completely destroyed. None of that is speculation.

If that's your idea of safe training management and good risk assessment, fine, I just hope I never end up on a boat with or near you.

Steve

So, can anyone say for sure who was the organising body behind this outing? There are various accreditations in the media.

*mod hat on* Lets keep the debate civil and respectful, all opinions are welcome and respected here

elperello

Steve wrote: »

So, can anyone say for sure who was the organising body behind this outing? There are various accreditations in the media.

*mod hat on* Lets keep the debate civil and respectful, all opinions are welcome and respected here

This part of the ISA statement the full statement is at one of the links I posted earlier today.

"In circumstances like this, there are tried and tested protocols that come into effect with all bodies working together for a safe outcome. The safety of the sailors was prioritised over equipment. We are now investigating what protocols and assessments may need to be reviewed and/or revised so that we maintain all safety standards."

Steve

elperello wrote: »

This part of the ISA statement the full statement is at one of the links I posted earlier today.

"In circumstances like this, there are tried and tested protocols that come into effect with all bodies working together for a safe outcome. The safety of the sailors was prioritised over equipment. We are now investigating what protocols and assessments may need to be reviewed and/or revised so that we maintain all safety standards."

Yes, but the ISA doesn't train kids in Oppies directly, its done through clubs.

I'm not wielding a pitchfork either, just looking for facts.

elperello

Steve wrote: »

Yes, but the ISA doesn't train kids in Oppies directly, its done through clubs.

I'm not wielding a pitchfork either, just looking for facts.

Yes affiliated clubs.

pedroeibar1

Steve wrote: »

I'm not wielding a pitchfork either, just looking for facts.

Me too and they are few and far between.

The highlighted event of a squall hitting the Oppie fleet Regatta at the back of the West Pier some years ago was just that, (despite what Tabnabs says) and at the time it too was blown totally out of proportion by the media. Moncrieff was the guy who did not know what a regatta was and was totally out of his depth. R.F. (the then Launching Officer at the DL RNLI) gave a very measured account on air of what happened and was highly dismissive of the media comment/reporting. I know him and would accept his account over any other comment posted here. I also know several of those kids who at the time regarded the episode as a great lark and afterwards enjoyed ice-creams at Teddy’s.

With just one exception the media comment on the Rosslare / Arklow rescue was plain silly. The report by Siggins was informative, and while the yacht was blameless for the second ‘tow’, I agree that leaving Southampton with a hurricane in the Atlantic might not have been advisable: however it was a freak that the eye of the storm turned right and tracked towards Ireland. However, we do not know when they left or what the forecast was at that time.

The rescue in DL on Saturday is being blown out of all proportion. I was up and out early on Saturday, the wind was slight, easterly and died. That is why the surfers at Whiterock went home early – not because of the waves, but the necessary easterly to create them at low tide was not there. Rumball and co at the ISS were out in the Harbour that morning, sail & motor, but went in. I guess they issued the statement because the media was reporting a ‘sailing school’ which clearly (and mistakenly) indicated them.

The kids in the Oppies on Saturday morning were experienced, they were not stage one. I know some from that group - many were Beavers, then Cubs and now are seascouts at Bullock. Confident on the water, knowledgeable, nice kids who have participated at national level. There was a weather window, someone at ISA saw fit to exploit it for traing experience and several squalls arrived ahead of schedule. Maybe the call was not perfect, but that’s life, it can also happen during a race. It is not appropriate for some on-line ‘expert’ to excoriate an OOD or similar from the comfort of hindsight, an armchair and cowardly anonymity. Most of the photographs are of empty dinghies at the height of the squalls. The ‘shock horror’ BS and the baying for blood is unseemly and, frankly, pathetic.

I am a member of a waterfront club, my links with people in the DL RNLI Station go back to the era of Eric Offer but have no affiliation with any of those involved in current events.

And congrats to the young lady from a neighbouring club on her Oppie result overseas at the weekend. That, and the participation of A-L Murphy in the VOR is what we should be discussing, not this bitchfest created by what clearly are armchair sailors.

khc

Steve wrote: »

So, can anyone say for sure who was the organising body behind this outing? There are various accreditations in the media.

*mod hat on* Lets keep the debate civil and respectful, all opinions are welcome and respected here

Hi Steve. There was no club involvement, the kids were part of a high performance squad that the ISA announced this year and the coaches were not local, and had travelled. You can google for more info. They were not part of a junior section and were not receiving "lessons" or taking levels. The weekend was organised in advance. None of the kids were rescued by passerbys on the pier, or the coast guard or rnli. Neither were they distraught or upset. They were brought in as soon as the squall hit and finished the session inside. Unfortunately some boats were wrecked. It was a non event, but for the photos which make it look extreme to those unfamiliar with oppy sailing and inaccurate reporting which ignited something mad in people

fergal.b

khc wrote: »

Hi Steve. There was no club involvement, the kids were part of a high performance squad that the ISA announced this year and the coaches were not local, and had travelled. You can google for more info. They were not part of a junior section and were not receiving "lessons" or taking levels. The weekend was organised in advance. None of the kids were rescued by passerbys on the pier, or the coast guard or rnli. Neither were they distraught or upset. They were brought in as soon as the squall hit and finished the session inside. Unfortunately some boats were wrecked. It was a non event, but for the photos which make it look extreme to those unfamiliar with oppy sailing and inaccurate reporting which ignited something mad in people

I'm sorry but familiar or unfamiliar with oppy sailing that is not a safe situation for anyone to be in, it is a life threatening situation being that close to the wall and out of control of your boat.

pedroeibar1

fergal.b wrote: »

I'm sorry but familiar or unfamiliar with oppy sailing that is not a safe situation for anyone to be in, it is a life threatening situation being that close to the wall and out of control of your boat.

That is highly subjective Fergal. A photo is like a company’s balance sheet, it shows an image at a moment in time that does not necessarily reflect the real position. Look at the others (with crew onboard) on the DLCG Facebook page, no comparison.

Reread the title and opening post on this thread. The topic has drifted from what has now transpired to be gross inaccuracies and misreporting on the UK yacht to the same on the Oppies in Dun L, now known not to be ‘trainees from a sailing school ’ but experienced sailors undergoing advanced level training from international coach(es) flown in for the occasion.

Every time you step on a boat it is life-threatening, the degree of risk is predicated on your experience, training, conditions and back-up. The sailors on the Oppies had experience, they were trained and they had back-up. The person in the photo is not in a life-threatening position because there was one of several rescue vessel within feet due to the fact that s/he went out with safety vessels and remained under close observation at all times. Was it uncomfortable and scary? Yes. Lifetghreatening? No.

I have always promoted safe sailing. Earlier this year I criticized boats HERE for dropping out of the DL – Dingle (due to seasick crew or with broken gear), some when they had had made it just as far as the Muglins and many within 24 hours of starting. Instead of a reasoned response and discussion I got a silly one, along with a ‘wimps’ comment, a word I never used.

Sadly there are crews in many Dublin clubs (I cannot speak for elsewhere) whose total experience of sailing is regularly rounding a few cans in the Bay and then back to a hot shower and the bar. Safe sailing, particularly on an offshore race, is about having the boat seaworthy and the crew prepared physically and mentally for endurance, knowing their way around the boat in the dark, what to do when it hits the fan, being able to stay the course and not give up a race because of a bit of wet & windy weather. Were I still a (class) safety officer I would have been asking some hard questions of those that dropped out.

Gear and crew should be fit for purpose and should have experience of heavy weather sailing. That is what feeder races/qualifiers are for. Wrapping people in cotton wool does not achieve that. That is why training should continue in rough weather, under supervised conditions. The real sailors on here have not joined the baying herd I note.

fergal.b

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

it shows an image at a moment in time that does not necessarily reflect the real position..

It shows an image at a moment in time that does reflect the real position, that boat is in danger and is way to close to the wall even if there was several rescue vessel within feet of it, some boats were lost with the several rescue boats on hand, also looking at the other rescue vessels they seem to have only one crewman onboard so if they were to try and help someone out they would have to give up control of their own boat to do so.

They are in oppies so I would think they are young trainees with a few years under their belts a bit far off from being experienced sailors I'm 40 + years on the water and am still a trainee




.

pedroeibar1

fergal.b wrote: »

It shows an image at a moment in time that does reflect the real position, that boat is in danger and is way to close to the wall even if there was several rescue vessel within feet of it, some boats were lost with the several rescue boats on hand, also looking at the other rescue vessels they seem to have only one crewman onboard so if they were to try and help someone out they would have to give up control of their own boat to do so.

They are in oppies so I would think they are young trainees with a few years under their belts a bit far off from being experienced sailors I'm 40 + years on the water and am still a trainee .

Again, Fergal, that is subjective. Age has little to do with it. Those kids are the top end of junior sailing, those who have special skills and are destined for great things which is why they were having special coaching. I agree that some people will, and do, continue to learn, but I also have seen many whose ‘experience’ is simply decades of repeating the same old thing over and over, without developing skills. Age has little to do with it, which is why the crack helms/crew (e.g. Olympics, VOR, etc.) are a fraction of our ages and better than we are.

The facts remain unclear. It seems a decision was made to exploit a weather window taking into account several factors including allowance for those who had travelled, an event long-planned, etc. In hindsight it was not a good call: had they decided to quit earlier (like others on the water that morning) this would not have happened. Until we have all the facts the asinine comments of idiot journalists and those who want to appear self-important and righteous have no place in this debate.

PS In the 'Pier' photo there is another crew in the rib, hidden by the Oppie's sail - see the DLCG photo.

neris

any chance that photos had a bit of editing done to it?

fergal.b

neris wrote: »

any chance that photos had a bit of editing done to it?

I wouldn't think so, I was there and it was a little bit choppy

elperello

I think I can make out a real sailor on the grassy knoll.

khc

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/sailing-close-to-the-wind-when-thrills-turn-to-danger-1.3270432?mode=amp

For anyone not familiar with the author he's a marine professional and long standing rnli crew member