NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2017-18

ButtersSuki

As I assume most of you won't get the Mallory ref:

ButtersSuki

Well f*ck me.

I heard on a podcast earlier that Austin Rivers salary was $12m and I assumed it had to be a mistake. It is (technically), but his 3 year deal (which is fully guaranteed!) is for $35,475,000 - averaging out at $11.825m per year. FOR AUSTIN RIVERS!!!!!!! WTAF? The most he made in his fist 4 seasons in the league was $3.1m and he really should have been out of the league at that point.

For comparison, Kemba Walker has played in an All Star game and is the franchise player for Charlotte. He's on $12m.

From Bleacher Report:

Paying Austin Rivers half the salary he'll make over the next three years—and rest assured that he won't be turning down that player option in 2018-19—would still be handing him way too much money. Though he's young enough to continue improving and has gotten slightly better during each season of his professional career, he has yet to become a positive on either end.
Take a gander at his career progression, per NBA Math's total points added:
SeasonOffensive Points AddedDefensive Points SavedTotal Points Added2012-13Minus-94.1Minus-52.28Minus-146.382013-14Minus-38.58Minus-64.3Minus-102.882014-15Minus-51.6Minus-36.42Minus-88.022015-16Minus-35.06Minus-29.22Minus-64.28
The 2015-16 campaign saw him play his best basketball yet, both offensively and defensively. But he's still not an asset. He won't even be a league-average contributor until the end of 2018-19, assuming he continues to follow this pattern of linear growth.
Rivers should be an end-of-the-bench player, and it comes as no surprise that the Los Angeles Clippers were 13.2 points per 100 possessions better with him off the court last year. Instead, he's paid like someone who should be in the running for Sixth Man of the Year, and his father/head coach may well play him in that type of leading role.



Some fun facts (various sources):

• He's the 107th best-paid NBA player this year.THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!
  
• He is projected to be the 91st best-paid NBA player next year. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!
• He's the 42nd best-paid guard this year. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!! In a guard-heavy league with insane talent-levels. SMH.
  
• He is projected to be the 35th best-paid guard next year. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!
• He's the 4th best-paid player of the Los Angeles Clippers this year.
• He is projected to be the 4th best-paid player of the Los Angeles Clippers next year.

If only my dad was an NBA coach. :rolleyes:

Gregk961

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Well f*ck me.

I heard on a podcast earlier that Austin Rivers salary was $12m and I assumed it had to be a mistake. It is (technically), but his 3 year deal (which is fully guaranteed!) is for $35,475,000 - averaging out at $11.825m per year. FOR AUSTIN RIVERS!!!!!!! WTAF? The most he made in his fist 4 seasons in the league was $3.1m and he really should have been out of the league at that point.

For comparison, Kemba Walker has played in an All Star game and is the franchise player for Charlotte. He's on $12m.

From Bleacher Report:

Paying Austin Rivers half the salary he'll make over the next three years—and rest assured that he won't be turning down that player option in 2018-19—would still be handing him way too much money. Though he's young enough to continue improving and has gotten slightly better during each season of his professional career, he has yet to become a positive on either end.
Take a gander at his career progression, per NBA Math's total points added:
SeasonOffensive Points AddedDefensive Points SavedTotal Points Added2012-13Minus-94.1Minus-52.28Minus-146.382013-14Minus-38.58Minus-64.3Minus-102.882014-15Minus-51.6Minus-36.42Minus-88.022015-16Minus-35.06Minus-29.22Minus-64.28
The 2015-16 campaign saw him play his best basketball yet, both offensively and defensively. But he's still not an asset. He won't even be a league-average contributor until the end of 2018-19, assuming he continues to follow this pattern of linear growth.
Rivers should be an end-of-the-bench player, and it comes as no surprise that the Los Angeles Clippers were 13.2 points per 100 possessions better with him off the court last year. Instead, he's paid like someone who should be in the running for Sixth Man of the Year, and his father/head coach may well play him in that type of leading role.



Some fun facts (various sources):

• He's the 107th best-paid NBA player this year.THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!
  
• He is projected to be the 91st best-paid NBA player next year. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!
• He's the 42nd best-paid guard this year. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!! In a guard-heavy league with insane talent-levels. SMH.
  
• He is projected to be the 35th best-paid guard next year. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!
• He's the 4th best-paid player of the Los Angeles Clippers this year.
• He is projected to be the 4th best-paid player of the Los Angeles Clippers next year.

If only my dad was an NBA coach. :rolleyes:

Crazy stuff. There is a lot of bad contracts around but that must rank near the top.

Pretty sure he said last year(when questioned about his lack of popularity among fellow players) that people in the NBA dislike him because he comes from the suburbs and not the inner city. And compared himself to Steph. Ya, that must be it...

Paully D

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/955644502886187009

rushfan

ButtersSuki wrote:

As I assume most of you won't get the Mallory ref:

I was thinking you might have been referring to Mallory from the West Wing.

2smiggy

booked flights and accommodation drunk one night for the superbowl , but get to see the bucks against the pelicans on the saturday night !!

edit: *timberwolves , was still half asleep

ButtersSuki

Paully D wrote: »

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/955644502886187009

Was reading that earlier this morning. Once again Love is the scapegoat. FFS. Guy is being seriously under-utilised and under-used in the Cavs system, despite this is playing at around All Star level and yet is being challenged by his teammates who are not putting up his numbers. Love is averaging 18.6pts and 9.4rbs per game this year btw.

Genuine question: I wonder if he was black would he be constantly challenged in this way?

ButtersSuki

Gregk961 wrote: »

Crazy stuff. There is a lot of bad contracts around but that must rank near the top.

Pretty sure he said last year(when questioned about his lack of popularity among fellow players) that people in the NBA dislike him because he comes from the suburbs and not the inner city. And compared himself to Steph. Ya, that must be it...

LOL! Thanks for that, gave me a giggle!

Gregk961

ButtersSuki wrote: »

LOL! Thanks for that, gave me a giggle!

I actually have a real interest in the topic of social background and particularly how it impacts professional athletes. I think it just shows how Austin Rivers head is so up in the clouds that he dosnt even realise the general make-up of the league. He and Steph are far from the exception, the fact is inner city kids(black and white) are the underrepresented 'class' in the league.

ButtersSuki

Gregk961 wrote: »

I actually have a real interest in the topic of social background and particularly how it impacts professional athletes. I think it just shows how Austin Rivers head is so up in the clouds that he dosnt even realise the general make-up of the league. He and Steph are far from the exception, the fact is inner city kids(black and white) are the underrepresented 'class' in the league.

Even in a sample size of just 2, look at the difference in humility between Steph and Austin. That's before you talk about work ethic, selflessness, team orientation, etc. etc.

Rivers is an absolute d*ckhead.

I like this one:
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/953163703213473792

Paully D

What a weirdo.

https://twitter.com/barstoolbigcat/status/955831147833028608

ButtersSuki

Paully D wrote: »

What a weirdo.

https://twitter.com/barstoolbigcat/status/955831147833028608

It's just such a LeBron thing to do though, isn't it?

Read the comments, they're hilarious.

ButtersSuki

And another one:
https://twitter.com/KingJosiah54/status/953176867640557568


Full list of 'em here:
https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/16/16896918/rockets-clippers-twitter-tweets-locker-room-fight-chris-paul

Gregk961

You have to admire the sheer egotism is takes to congratulate yourself on becoming the SIXTH top points scorer.

ButtersSuki

Gregk961 wrote: »

You have to admire the sheer egotism is takes to congratulate yourself on becoming the SIXTH top points scorer.

Would be absolutely hilarious if he ends up 1 point (or more) short tonight. Would never wish an injury on anyone but say he tweaked an ankle or pulled a hamstring early in the game and had to leave or something? Imagine the trolling?

ButtersSuki

Gregk961 wrote: »

You have to admire the sheer egotism is takes to congratulate yourself on becoming the SIXTH top points scorer.

From the man who brought you “The Decision”....
:rolleyes:

Gregk961

ButtersSuki wrote: »

From the man who brought you “The Decision”....
:rolleyes:

A flawed character for sure. One of the side effects of being told "Ok Bron good idea" since he was a teenager is his brain just dosnt function like a normal person. I dont think there is a well adjusted person on the planet that would thank himself for being great on a platform that can reach hundreds of millions.

That said Im pretty sure MJ would be polluting Twitter with egotistical nonsense had he joined the league when Lebron did.

ButtersSuki

Well this is the guy who gave himself his own nickname after all. :pac:

Jordan in particular should be glad he wasn't in the twitter/mobile phone era for his alleged off court antics as it would have been viral in a second. I don't know would he have engaged in twitter talk though to be fair.

Carcharodon

I said it before and I’ll say it again, if Lebron s “decision” or tweeting to himself is the worst thing you can throw at someone that has been in the spotlight since a teenager, I’ll take that.
He does a lot more good than bad.

ButtersSuki

Carcharodon wrote: »

I said it before and I’ll say it again, if Lebron s “decision” or tweeting to himself is the worst thing you can throw at someone that has been in the spotlight since a teenager, I’ll take that.
He does a lot more good than bad.

Fair point.

That we know of.....there’s s lot of rumours out there about LeBron’s performance against Father Time though. I really hope they’re without substance but what a scandal it would be if something emerges down the line.

Gregk961

Gregk961 wrote: »

A flawed character for sure. One of the side effects of being told "Ok Bron good idea" since he was a teenager is his brain just dosnt function like a normal person. I dont think there is a well adjusted person on the planet that would thank himself for being great on a platform that can reach hundreds of millions.

That said Im pretty sure MJ would be polluting Twitter with egotistical nonsense had he joined the league when Lebron did.

Kevin smith had a bit about working with prince on that its very interesting. O think it's hard to contemplate how rational works when money's not an issue and everyone kisses your ass

Carcharodon

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Fair point.

That we know of.....there’s s lot of rumours out there about LeBron’s performance against Father Time though. I really hope they’re without substance but what a scandal it would be if something emerges down the line.

I would be fairly skeptical if that was true, nothing would shock me but he isn’t as big as he was, he has adapted his game as he has gotten older, I just don’t see it. I haven’t even heard about those rumors tone honest, I would need something off a reliable source to believe it if I am honest.

I look back at arguments I’ve had through the years about Lance Armstrong, that man was so god damn guilty, I really didn’t understand how people didn’t want to believe it. In that instance, I read a lot of articles and books about him, even his own book.
Marion Jones too was another one that was guilty as sin.
My own view of PEDs is not important but I don’t view it with such outrage as most people, there is such a fine line with what athletes take to improve or maintain physical performance
Most of it is so hypocritical when it comes to the organization implementing it, whether it be nfl,nba,mlb, olympics, etc

Carcharodon

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Fair point.

That we know of.....there’s s lot of rumours out there about LeBron’s performance against Father Time though. I really hope they’re without substance but what a scandal it would be if something emerges down the line.

I would be fairly skeptical if that was true, nothing would shock me but he isn’t as big as he was, he has adapted his game as he has gotten older, I just don’t see it. I haven’t even heard about those rumors tone honest, I would need something off a reliable source to believe it if I am honest.

I look back at arguments I’ve had through the years about Lance Armstrong, that man was so god damn guilty, I really didn’t understand how people didn’t want to believe it. In that instance, I read a lot of articles and books about him, even his own book.
Marion Jones too was another one that was guilty as sin.
My own view of PEDs is not important but I don’t view it with such outrage as most people, there is such a fine line with what athletes take to improve or maintain physical performance
Most of it is so hypocritical when it comes to the organization implementing it, whether it be nfl,nba,mlb, olympics, etc

rushfan

Carcharodon wrote:

I look back at arguments I’ve had through the years about Lance Armstrong, that man was so god damn guilty, I really didn’t understand how people didn’t want to believe it. In that instance, I read a lot of articles and books about him, even his own book. Marion Jones too was another one that was guilty as sin. My own view of PEDs is not important but I don’t view it with such outrage as most people, there is such a fine line with what athletes take to improve or maintain physical performance Most of it is so hypocritical when it comes to the organization implementing it, whether it be nfl,nba,mlb, olympics, etc

Perhaps even the IRFU too????

ButtersSuki

Carcharodon wrote: »

I would be fairly skeptical if that was true, nothing would shock me but he isn’t as big as he was, he has adapted his game as he has gotten older, I just don’t see it. I haven’t even heard about those rumors tone honest, I would need something off a reliable source to believe it if I am honest.

I look back at arguments I’ve had through the years about Lance Armstrong, that man was so god damn guilty, I really didn’t understand how people didn’t want to believe it. In that instance, I read a lot of articles and books about him, even his own book.
Marion Jones too was another one that was guilty as sin.
My own view of PEDs is not important but I don’t view it with such outrage as most people, there is such a fine line with what athletes take to improve or maintain physical performance
Most of it is so hypocritical when it comes to the organization implementing it, whether it be nfl,nba,mlb, olympics, etc

There's been rumours for years. It's been touched on by Bill Simmons in more than one podcast, been "joked" (in that wink wink way) on Around The Horn and on PTI but always erring on the side of legal caution. Even Dan Le Batard has "joked" about it - and in the Miami-Bron Era he was their biggest fanboy.

My primary degree is in sports science (though I work in a completely different field) and this is one area I've always been interested in. There's a lot of alarm bells there TBH with LeBron but in fairness the guy takes care of his body like pretty much no one in Pro Sports history. Now the counter to that of course is that one of the main benefits of PEDs is not the ability to train harder, but recover better and quicker (and subsequently train again etc. - I don't want to get too technical here). The Miami mid-season "holiday" he took a few years back and the physical transformation he had in those few weeks off was a big flag for me; and when you not the location of some of the sports "labs/clinics" in Miami it's another flag.

I really dislike LeBron as a person, I've never denied that; but he's an insanely gifted athlete and an amazing player (even if I feel his game has weaknesses and that he's not a killer in the same way Jordan, Bird etc. were). I would be absolutely gutted if he were found to be using. I'd hate if any NBA player was caught (except Austin Rivers :pac:), but to think that there's no users in the NBA is incredibly naive. In a sport that's that explosive and athletic and with a playing and travelling schedule as insane as the NBA's is, there simply has to be guys using. FFS Marc Cuban was advocating the use of HGH in certain circumstances last year!

On your comment re. the organisation - sadly, I don't think the NBA would disclose it if he were caught though.

Edit: Three other quick ones:
1. the jaw tumor
2. the receeding hairline
3. just type "LeBron and PEDs" into google and look at the results from more credible sites.

Nothing conclusive in the hairline in isolation, but it is a sign. The jaw tumor though is a huge red flag.

I mean it's all relative they started testing for high or something like that a few years ago and half the league coincidentally decided to slim down that year

ButtersSuki

One thing I hadn't noticed until today was Westbrook is almost averaging a triple double this year again:

24.8 Points
10.1 Assists
9.7 Rebounds

Incredible really when you think about it.

Hazys

Don't look now

https://twitter.com/NBA/status/956336735603970049

kmart6

ButtersSuki wrote: »

One thing I hadn't noticed until today was Westbrook is almost averaging a triple double this year again:

24.8 Points
10.1 Assists
9.7 Rebounds

Incredible really when you think about it.

I think this would be more impressive if he wasn't playing garbage time to get there, takes away from it in my eyes.

ButtersSuki

kmart6 wrote: »

I think this would be more impressive if he wasn't playing garbage time to get there, takes away from it in my eyes.

Think that's a little harsh. If they were winning every game as a blow out I'd say ok, but they're not playing Cleveland every night. They've been in a lot of tight games, and their record reflects that.

It always bugs me when a player watches his stats that much rondo used to do the same don't think it's conducive to winning a championship

For Forks Sake

Marcel Delightful Viewfinder wrote: »

It always bugs me when a player watches his stats that much rondo used to do the same don't think it's conducive to winning a championship

Rondo won a championship....

NufcNavan

Marcel Delightful Viewfinder wrote: »

It always bugs me when a player watches his stats that much rondo used to do the same don't think it's conducive to winning a championship

Rondo padded assist stats. About as selfless as you can get really.

For Forks Sake

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Rondo won a championship....

With kg pierce and Allen he hardly lead them to it

NufcNavan

NufcNavan wrote: »

Rondo padded assist stats. About as selfless as you can get really.

Not when your turning down easy layups for them

NufcNavan

Marcel Delightful Viewfinder wrote: »

With kg pierce and Allen he hardly lead them to it

There's no way they win without Rondo.

ButtersSuki

https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/956739986404945921

NufcNavan

NufcNavan wrote: »

There's no way they win without Rondo.

Maby but he's clearly no. 4 on a championship team.

We're not commenting on wether Stephen Adams style can win championships it's Russell Westbrooks

ButtersSuki

Marcel Delightful Viewfinder wrote: »

Maby but he's clearly no. 4 on a championship team.

We're not commenting on wether Stephen Adams style can win championships it's Russell Westbrooks

I know the point you’re trying trying to make but that’s hardly a fair comparison.

Osmosis Jones

Boogie out for the season with a torn ACL, really sad considering he'd just been named an All-Star starter, he's putting up ridiculous stats, and was pretty much guaranteed to make it to the playoffs.

NufcNavan

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Boogie out for the season with a torn ACL, really sad considering he'd just been named an All-Star starter, he's putting up ridiculous stats, and was pretty much guaranteed to make it to the playoffs.

Torn Achilles, which is worse than ACL unfortunately.

K.O.Kiki

Man, poor Pelis

At least the Sixers are doing well this year.

ButtersSuki

That's a big blow to NO and Boogie (contract year...more or less!). Very sad; I know he has his detractors but I've always been a huge fan.

Carcharodon

ButtersSuki wrote: »

There's been rumours for years. It's been touched on by Bill Simmons in more than one podcast, been "joked" (in that wink wink way) on Around The Horn and on PTI but always erring on the side of legal caution. Even Dan Le Batard has "joked" about it - and in the Miami-Bron Era he was their biggest fanboy.

My primary degree is in sports science (though I work in a completely different field) and this is one area I've always been interested in. There's a lot of alarm bells there TBH with LeBron but in fairness the guy takes care of his body like pretty much no one in Pro Sports history. Now the counter to that of course is that one of the main benefits of PEDs is not the ability to train harder, but recover better and quicker (and subsequently train again etc. - I don't want to get too technical here). The Miami mid-season "holiday" he took a few years back and the physical transformation he had in those few weeks off was a big flag for me; and when you not the location of some of the sports "labs/clinics" in Miami it's another flag.

I really dislike LeBron as a person, I've never denied that; but he's an insanely gifted athlete and an amazing player (even if I feel his game has weaknesses and that he's not a killer in the same way Jordan, Bird etc. were). I would be absolutely gutted if he were found to be using. I'd hate if any NBA player was caught (except Austin Rivers :pac:), but to think that there's no users in the NBA is incredibly naive. In a sport that's that explosive and athletic and with a playing and travelling schedule as insane as the NBA's is, there simply has to be guys using. FFS Marc Cuban was advocating the use of HGH in certain circumstances last year!

On your comment re. the organisation - sadly, I don't think the NBA would disclose it if he were caught though.

Edit: Three other quick ones:
1. the jaw tumor
2. the receeding hairline
3. just type "LeBron and PEDs" into google and look at the results from more credible sites.

Nothing conclusive in the hairline in isolation, but it is a sign. The jaw tumor though is a huge red flag.

Thanks for the info, its definitely very interesting and there may be some substance to it but I would still have to sit on the fence when there really isnt any hard proof. I did a little google research and a lot of what is being said is kind of hypothetical, I am sure LeBron and probably every other player has taken something to enhance performance or recovery but to what extent or even if its tested for is debatable. I would really hope something like the baseball drama never happens to the NBA, would be devastating.
If Lebron was found out, it still wouldnt change my opinion on what a great player he is, no amount of drugs cab give you that ability
I would love to hear your thoughts on Michelle Smith, I remember when all that went down and she was found guilty, it felt like she was railroaded. She was one of the most tested athletes ever and never failed test, they got her on a tampered urine sample or something. Ive read she was one of the first swimmers to change the style of training, concentrating more in the weight room than the pool, thats what set her apart at the time. Or maybe she was drugged up to her eyeballs lol

Carcharodon

Boogies injury really sucks, its one of the worst injuries to get for an athlete
Warriors v Celtics was fantastic tonight, would make a great finals, Kyrie plays lights out against Warriors, Curry was sensational as usual, take that for granted at this stage

ButtersSuki

Carcharodon wrote: »

Thanks for the info, its definitely very interesting and there may be some substance to it but I would still have to sit on the fence when there really isnt any hard proof. I did a little google research and a lot of what is being said is kind of hypothetical, I am sure LeBron and probably every other player has taken something to enhance performance or recovery but to what extent or even if its tested for is debatable. I would really hope something like the baseball drama never happens to the NBA, would be devastating.
If Lebron was found out, it still wouldnt change my opinion on what a great player he is, no amount of drugs cab give you that ability
I would love to hear your thoughts on Michelle Smith, I remember when all that went down and she was found guilty, it felt like she was railroaded. She was one of the most tested athletes ever and never failed test, they got her on a tampered urine sample or something. Ive read she was one of the first swimmers to change the style of training, concentrating more in the weight room than the pool, thats what set her apart at the time. Or maybe she was drugged up to her eyeballs lol

I'll have to PM you on that one!

Give me a few days...up to my teets right now.

Gregk961

Gutted about Boogie, I honestly thought they could upset anybody in the playoffs. I still think with Jrue, Rondo and AD they could sneak the 7 or 8 spot but its no guarantee now.

Just watched Celtics-Warriors, great game, one of the best so far this season and it would be a worthy finals series. It was like a battle between Kyrie and Curry when they were both on the court and Kyries best game as a Celtic. He made some impossible shots go, not sure I've ever seen a guard as good around the rim as he is.

Steph is playing as well as ever this year, It seems like its Hardens turn to be MVP but I'd have him below Steph personally.

ButtersSuki

Carcharodon wrote: »

Boogies injury really sucks, its one of the worst injuries to get for an athlete
Warriors v Celtics was fantastic tonight, would make a great finals, Kyrie plays lights out against Warriors, Curry was sensational as usual, take that for granted at this stage

Watched it all earlier today (not live). GS were excellent, but Boston were very impressive - the future looks very bright indeed. For me that was their best game of the season when you factor everything into it - on the road, on a bit of recent slump, Horford just back from injury etc.

It's scary in a way when you talk about "holding" GS to 109, but even that wasn't enough. Boston's system is clearly defence-oriented and their key to wins is keeping it under the ton. You could say they need a 2nd/3rd scorer after Kyrie (and to a lesser degree Horford) but then you think about how young they are. Looking very good in the 3-5 year window. As a Boston fan I'm very excited about the future.

Curry was just :eek:. Despite the/some stats indicating otherwise, he really is the best/most valuable player on that team.

LuckyLloyd

Clean sports is a myth imo. There are huge vested interests in propagating a fantasy that most athletes are clean and only the very few cheat. Every sport that has really looked for drug cheats has found them everywhere. And the irony becomes that those sports then become tainted and written off as doper sports. So the easy path is the one sports like Rugby and Basketball are taking. Pay lip service to testing, do limited amounts of it and retain a positive image around the sport.

If LeBron is cheating so are countless others. It is so genuinely rare to find one athlete at the top of the game cheating in isolation. Just look at the 30 fastest 100m times of all time, who ran them, and how many of them were caught. If Bolt is clean he's genuinely a Golden Unicorn.

A jawline tumor; receding hairline; something about how his muscles look - these are all really weak reasons to believe he's cheating. He is physically declining, albeit with a very gradual curve thus far. He is improving aspects of his game that can be practiced (3 pt shooting; free throws); he is playing very high minutes but clearly dialling down defensive intensity in the regular season to compensate. As noted in this thread, his commitment to diet and prehab and the willingness to invest in his body is extraordinary. He also just turned 33, so it is too soon to ascribe him the fountain of youth ala Federer just yet. Remember that Jordan played 38.8 mpg and started all 82 regular season games in his age 34 - 35 season while leading the league in ppg.

ButtersSuki

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Clean sports is a myth imo. There are huge vested interests in propagating a fantasy that most athletes are clean and only the very few cheat. Every sport that has really looked for drug cheats has found them everywhere. And the irony becomes that those sports then become tainted and written off as doper sports. So the easy path is the one sports like Rugby and Basketball are taking. Pay lip service to testing, do limited amounts of it and retain a positive image around the sport.

If LeBron is cheating so are countless others. It is so genuinely rare to find one athlete at the top of the game cheating in isolation. Just look at the 30 fastest 100m times of all time, who ran them, and how many of them were caught. If Bolt is clean he's genuinely a Golden Unicorn.

A jawline tumor; receding hairline; something about how his muscles look - these are all really weak reasons to believe he's cheating. He is physically declining, albeit with a very gradual curve thus far. He is improving aspects of his game that can be practiced (3 pt shooting; free throws); he is playing very high minutes but clearly dialling down defensive intensity in the regular season to compensate. As noted in this thread, his commitment to diet and prehab and the willingness to invest in his body is extraordinary. He also just turned 33, so it is too soon to ascribe him the fountain of youth ala Federer just yet. Remember that Jordan played 38.8 mpg and started all 82 regular season games in his age 34 - 35 season while leading the league in ppg.

I agree with most of what you've said but the jaw tumour is a huge red flag - it's a known and common side effect of PED use/misuse/abuse. If I had time and wasn't so tired myself I'd bore you with the science of it.

The muscular transformation (i.e. the before and after) he had from that short break in Miami was astonishing. I'm sure there must be a before and after on google but I'm in bed so I'll look later in the week.

The hairline sure can be written off as age, but it can also be a sign. But for the sake of argument let's discount it completely.

The NBA are a joke when it comes to testing though, as are most American sports. I'd just be gutted if the sport was found to have a serious problem. That said, I honestly don't understand how those guys play to the levels they do with bodies as big as they are for as many games as they do AND do the insane levels of travel they do on top of that. The fitness levels required to do that are superhuman. Would I be shocked if guys were doping? Absolutely not.

I didn't say he was the only one (if at all of course) by any means either - not saying you implied I did but just wanted to clarify that. I love the sport; I'd be gutted if anyone was caught TBH. But as the game's best player, I'd be more gutted if he was caught.