Water pump adjustable pressure?

metricspaces

I have a Stuart Turner Monsoon S2.0 Twin water pump in my house. I'm wondering if the pressure on these are adjustable?

The reason I'm asking is that the pressure seems very low.

The house is a standard new build semi-d. The water pump is brand new.

The house is not in an area with poor water pressure.

In comparsion to a Triton T90 shower the pressure is nowhere near as strong from my water pump. Should it be?

Sleeper12

metricspaces wrote:

In comparsion to a Triton T90 shower the pressure is nowhere near as strong from my water pump. Should it be?

An electric shower like a t90 pumps out 4 litres per minute or less of hot water. Your 2 bar pump should be pumping 14 litres plus per minute.

Something is definitely wrong. This might sound like a silly question but are you sure that the pump is switched on? Does it sound like it's pumping water or just humming?

metricspaces

Thanks for the reply. Yes the pump is definitely on and is making a noise.

Is the pressure on the pump adjustable? I'm wondering if it has just been set to lower than 2bar and needs turning up.

I've yet to move into the house so I had the pump switched off. So it's been mostly off since installed by builder a few months ago.

When I turned the pump on today I still had very low pressure, but pressure increased after a few minutes.

Turning on the tap in the bathroom has a noticeable effect on reducing the pressure in the shower. This system seems nowhere near operating at 2 bar.

metricspaces

In my kitchen where the cold water is coming from the mains (i.e. not going through the pump), the pressure from the cold water is greater than the pressure from the hot water (which obviously is going through the pump).

There is no other use of water in the house when I'm doing this little test.

I'm guessing the mains is not coming into the house at anywhere near 2bar? (a quick Google seems to suggest mains is 0.5bar or less in Ireland)

Sleeper12

What type of shower head have you got? The bigger the head the weaker the pressure, or at least the impression of less water.
Stuart Turner monsoon comes with a 5 year warranty so you know that you will be looked after if it is the pump.

metricspaces

Shower head is just your standard shower head. Not much different to the ones that come with a Triton T90 shower.

Do you know if the pressure of the pump is adjustable?

metricspaces

Shower head

Here's a video where you can see the pressure. When I turn the tap on you can see the pressure in the shower drop dramatically https://streamable.com/vuaw6

sky6

It could possibly have been piped wrong. Can you post pictures of the Plumbing around the Pump and Cylinder.

exaisle

If you're in an area with hard water, the head of the shower may be partially blocked...dismantle it and soak it in vinegar to clear it (or attack it with a pin to unblock the holes)....

metricspaces

exaisle wrote: »

If you're in an area with hard water, the head of the shower may be partially blocked...dismantle it and soak it in vinegar to clear it (or attack it with a pin to unblock the holes)....

Everything is brand new. New house. New pump. New shower. So I think that should all be ok.

K.Flyer

To answer your main question, No, the output of the pump is not adjustable, it is fixed.
Have you checked all valves on the pipes to and from the pump to ensure that they are all in the fully open position (lever valves are marked, round handles open anti clockwise)?
Is the issue on both the hot and cold selection of the shower valve?
Does the pump service anything else, e.g. taps in the same bathroom, is the pressure low on these as well?
If everything is a brand new installation, why have you not contacted the installer?

metricspaces

K.Flyer wrote: »

To answer your main question, No, the output of the pump is not adjustable, it is fixed.
Have you checked all valves on the pipes to and from the pump to ensure that they are all in the fully open position (lever valves are marked, round handles open anti clockwise)?
Is the issue on both the hot and cold selection of the shower valve?
Does the pump service anything else, e.g. taps in the same bathroom, is the pressure low on these as well?
If everything is a brand new installation, why have you not contacted the installer?

Thanks. I will check these things.

The pressure with hot and cold is the same.

As far as I'm aware the pump services every water outlet in the house (bar the mains in the kitchen). It even comes on when you flush the toilet.

I've never had a shower in a house with a water pump before. So I don't know what I should be expecting from a 2 bar pump. I've nothing to compare it to. Yes I'll ask the builder, but would like to be somewhat informed beforehand.

Even though I've never had a water pump in a house before. I've read that mains supply in Ireland is less than 0.5 bar, am I right in thinking that the hot water coming out in my kitchen (going through pump) should have higher pressure than my cold water in the kitchen (coming from mains)?

Sleeper12

I'm just looking at the video now and I think the pressure looks OK. I'm assuming when it drops off it's you turning on the bathroom tap?

It's quite a big shower head and looks like a lot of water is going through it. An electric shower head has a lot less holes & the holes are a lot smaller. This gives the impression of more pressure & more water.

Can you measure how many litres per minute you are getting or how many times you can fill a litre jug in a minute? I'm betting you are getting over 15 litres per minute.

Mains water pressure is supposed to be I think 1.5 bar minimum for a household but it can be anything from 1 to 3 bar. Higher in a few areas.

metricspaces

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Can you measure how many litres per minute you are getting or how many times you can fill a litre jug in a minute? I'm betting you are getting over 15 litres per minute.

Thanks! Good idea. So I'll just take off the shower head and see how long it takes to fill a litre bottle. I'll do this a few times after the pump is running for a minute or so, average out the figures, and calculate what it is outputting per minute on average.

How do I find out how many litres per minute my pump should be outputting?

Here's a pic of the pump. It says 9 L/min @ 1.5bar. So it would be 12 L/min @ 2bar?



I checked all valves and they are all full open.

metricspaces

There is also this guage in this hot press. I'm not sure if it's of any relevance here. Is it displaying the pressure of the water (the black hand)?

What's the purpose of the red hand - does the system stop suppling water if the black hand goes below the red?

K.Flyer

Just a quick reply, that gauge is part of the central heating system.
Your pump is rated 1.5 bar at 9 litre /m when operating.
The 2 bar figure is how much pressure could build up behind a closed valve.
I would check the internal diameter of the shower house, some can be very narrow which drastically affects pump performance.

metricspaces

K.Flyer wrote: »

Just a quick reply, that gauge is part of the central heating system.
Your pump is rated 1.5 bar at 9 litre /m when operating.
The 2 bar figure is how much pressure could build up behind a closed valve.
I would check the internal diameter of the shower house, some can be very narrow which drastically affects pump performance.

Thanks. I'll check this diameter and the water flow.

Kinda false advertising for these pumps, to call it a 2 bar pump if it's only putting out 1.5 bar pressure water.

If everything is ok and I want more pressure then what bar would you recommend? I see these Stuart Turner Monsoon pumps come in 2, 3, 4 or 4.5 bar. Presume I can use any of them?

I would like the shower to be quite high pressure. The house has two bathrooms, so if changing the pump I might as well accommodate for the possibility of both bathrooms using water at same time (both using showers, or one shower & other using taps).

Will there be much of a difference in running cost and noise if i go 3 or 4 bar pump?

metricspaces

K.Flyer wrote: »

Just a quick reply, that gauge is part of the central heating system.
Your pump is rated 1.5 bar at 9 litre /m when operating.
The 2 bar figure is how much pressure could build up behind a closed valve.
I would check the internal diameter of the shower house, some can be very narrow which drastically affects pump performance.

I just tested the amount of water coming out and it is about 8.6 litres per minute. As the pump is rated 9 litres per minute this sounds ok?

Internal diameter of the shower house is 7mm.

Does this all sound ok? And if I want more pressure I just need to get a 3 or 4 bar pump?

K.Flyer

metricspaces wrote: »

I just tested the amount of water coming out and it is about 8.6 litres per minute. As the pump is rated 9 litres per minute this sounds ok?

Internal diameter of the shower house is 7mm.

Does this all sound ok? And if I want more pressure I just need to get a 3 or 4 bar pump?

You can get bigger bore than that..
Go into woodies, they have a larger diameter 1.5m length hose for around 16 euro.
Its a cheap try that might help before going looking for a larger pump.

metricspaces

K.Flyer wrote: »

You can get bigger bore than that..
Go into woodies, they have a larger diameter 1.5m length hose for around 16 euro.
Its a cheap try that might help before going looking for a larger pump.

Thanks. I will give this a try.

If I decide to go for a bigger pump what bar should I go for?

K.Flyer

metricspaces wrote: »

Thanks. I will give this a try.

If I decide to go for a bigger pump what bar should I go for?

Before spending on a new pump, I would first ensure all pipework is correct and shower valve filter / strainers are clean.
3 bar would be considered plenty for a domestic installation.
Stick with the Stuart Turner brand.

metricspaces

K.Flyer wrote: »

Before spending on a new pump, I would first ensure all pipework is correct and shower valve filter / strainers are clean.

Does the fact that I am getting almost 9 litres per minute (without the shower head on) not imply that the pipework etc. is all ok?

K.Flyer

metricspaces wrote: »

Does the fact that I am getting almost 9 litres per minute (without the shower head on) not imply that the pipework etc. is all ok?

Yes, sorry I forgot you had checked that, so it probably is fine.

metricspaces

According to this page here https://victoriaplum.com/blog/posts/understanding-water-pressure anything below 10 litres per minute is considered low pressure. Is 9 L/min really the expected flow rate of this 2.0 bar pump?

Based on the information on that site it doesn't make sense that 9 L/min would be the expected flow rate of my 2.0 bar pump. Why would any company make a pump where the flow rate is considered low pressure?

Sleeper12

metricspaces wrote: »

According to this page here https://victoriaplum.com/blog/posts/understanding-water-pressure anything below 10 litres per minute is considered low pressure. Is 9 L/min really the expected flow rate of this 2.0 bar pump?

Based on the information on that site it doesn't make sense that 9 L/min would be the expected flow rate of my 2.0 bar pump. Why would any company make a pump where the flow rate is considered low pressure?

For your shower to be "officially" a power shower it has to be 10 litres per minute. Anything under 10lpm isn't called a power shower.

There's nothing wrong with 9 lpm. In many states in America shower heads have to be limited to 9 lmp max under state law.

The link you posted is by a bathroom company. They have an interest in making you think your water pressure isn't good enough. They would try sell you a new shower with a bigger shower head requiring even more pressure & sell you a 3 bar pump.

It's really what you want out of your system. If you go to a 3 Bar pump (I have one myself) you are going to go through more hot water per shower. I can drain a full tank of hot water in little over 10 minutes. So bigger pump = more powerfull shower= higher electricity costs.

metricspaces

Sleeper12 wrote: »

For your shower to be "officially" a power shower it has to be 10 litres per minute. Anything under 10lpm isn't called a power shower.

Thanks, it really is a power shower I want and I don't mind the extra water\electricity usage.

I got an 11mm diameter shower hose, it didn't make a noticeable difference. I've ordered this shower head from showerpowerbooster and will test it.

If the combination of the 11mm diameter hose and new shower head don't increase the pressure of water coming out enough, then I guess I am looking at getting a new pump.

Before I get a new pump, I really want to be sure my existing pump is operating as expected. I'm a bit confused as to what my pump should be putting out. See the spec here http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products/monsoon/s20-bar-twin/

@Sleeper12 you mentioned previously that a 2.0 bar pump should be putting out 14 l/min? But K.Flyer said my pump (based on the photo I shared of the label on it - see below) should only be putting out 9 l/min. That's obviously a big difference of 50%.



The spec of my 2.0 bar pump says "Performance @ 9 l/min 1.5 bar". How do I tell this is the performance to expect when no shower head is on the hose? It doesn't say anywhere on the spec that 1.5 bar is the operating pressure of the pump.

Sleeper12

metricspaces wrote:

@Sleeper12 you mentioned previously that a 2.0 bar pump should be putting out 14 l/min? But K.Flyer said my pump (based on the photo I shared of the label on it - see below) should only be putting out 9 l/min. That's obviously a big difference of 50%.

I was wrong. I was surprised myself when K.Flyer said 9 litres per minute but I don't for a second doubt his knowledge. I deal with self contained power showers and electric shower. I rarely deal with stand alone pumps

metricspaces

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I was wrong. I was surprised myself when K.Flyer said 9 litres per minute but I don't for a second doubt his knowledge. I deal with self contained power showers and electric shower. I rarely deal with stand alone pumps

Thanks! I was hoping you weren't wrong

Just out of interest, how do I tell from the label on my pump (or the specs of the pump online) that 1.5bar @ 9 l\min is what I should expect with the shower head off the hose? Is it the "Duty Head" term that signifies this?

I'm thinking to go 4.0 bar based on my current pump is 2.0 bar and:

1. Visible pressure of the current shower, see here https://streamable.com/vuaw6, it looks like I'd want to double the pressure?
2. Only £60 in difference between cost of 3.0 bar and 4.0 bar stuart turner monsoon pump here https://www.tradingdepot.co.uk
3. If I go for 3.0 bar and pressure is not enough, then I'll have to pay for a 4.0 bar and pay a plumber twice. So for the sake of £60 extra, seems sensible to get 4.0 bar
4. I've two pumped showers in the house, so occassionally I like both to operate at decent pressure if needed

My only concern with 4.0 bar pump is that the pressure is too strong for the taps, and even turning the tap on a small bit in the wash basin will shoot the water out onto the floor. Should this be a concern? Or unlikely to be a problem?

Sleeper12

metricspaces wrote:

If I go for 3.0 bar and pressure is not enough, then I'll have to pay for a 4.0 bar and pay a plumber twice. So for the sake of £60 extra, seems sensible to get 4.0 bar I've two pumped showers in the house, so occassionally I like both to operate at decent pressure if needed My only concern with 4.0 bar pump is that the pressure is too strong for the taps, and even turning the tap on a small bit in the wash basin will shoot the water out onto the floor. Should this be a concern? Or unlikely to be a problem?

I just checked mine out of pig iron. It's a 3 bar monsoon and I'm getting 23 litres per minute give or take with the shower head off

K.Flyer

I was a bit surprised to see the label rating the pump at 9 ltr / min. @ 1.5 bar as well.
According to the Stuart Turner web site the pump will deliver between 9 and 18 ltr / min, depending on resistance in the pipework, shower valve, shower head etc.
In other words an open pipe = greater flow rate, but lower pressure.
Might be worth checking the shower valve for partially blocked inlet strainers, its not uncommon problem.
Keep in mind, I have recently heard that Stuart Turner will not cover any warranty issues on non Irish spec pumps.

metricspaces

K.Flyer wrote: »

I was a bit surprised to see the label rating the pump at 9 ltr / min. @ 1.5 bar as well.
According to the Stuart Turner web site the pump will deliver between 9 and 18 ltr / min, depending on resistance in the pipework, shower valve, shower head etc.
In other words an open pipe = greater flow rate, but lower pressure.

I don't understand why previously you mentioned it was ok the I got almost 9 l/min with shower head off?

Surely with the shower head off I should be expecting a lot more than the minimum output of the pump?

The pump is approximately three metres from the shower.

If sleeper12 is getting 23 l/min with a 3bar, then if he stuck in a 2bar pump you'd expect roughly 15 l/min ? (3bar is 50% more pressure than 2 bar, 23 l/min is 50% more than 15 l/min).

The 3bar pump also says 9 l/min at 2.5bar. So I really don't understand why I should only be expecting 9 l/min on my 2bar pump.

So surely I should be expecting more than 9 l/min with shower head off?

K.Flyer wrote: »

Might be worth checking the shower valve for partially blocked inlet strainers, its not uncommon problem.

Thanks. I'll take a look. But not sure how to. Do I need to take the shower fixings on the wall apart?

K.Flyer wrote: »

Keep in mind, I have recently heard that Stuart Turner will not cover any warranty issues on non Irish spec pumps.

So the pumps sold in UK (for way cheaper) are not the same spec as the ones sold in Ireland?

Comparing the label on my pump to the info on the Stuart Turner website my pump looks identical.