Tax

Mr. Fancypants

My understanding is that any gains from cryptocurrency (above 1270 euro) are susceptible to capital gains tax. Has anyone gone through the process of filing in the returns? I believe it is a painful document to fill in. Has anyone gotten any assistance to fill in the CGT form and if so what has your experience been?

ZeroThreat

Mr.S wrote: »

Interested to know this too. If you are a PAYE worker, it seems like you just need to file a form 12?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/how-do-you-pay-and-file-cgt.aspx

But when you declare, what do you declare exactly...the final amount withdrawn into Fiat, or each individual trade where you made the profit which you end up withdrawing?

I guess the whole crypto area is pretty vague due to the relative 'newness' of the technology.

I took the advanced tax P6 option while studying ACCA earlier this year and don't recall seeing them mentioned anywhere in the capital taxes sections of the course.


Edit : Maybe in years to come, Revenue will establish a special 'crypto compliance' taskforce

ToxicPaddy

ZeroThreat wrote: »

I guess the whole crypto area is pretty vague due to the relative 'newness' of the technology.

I took the advanced tax P6 option while studying ACCA earlier this year and don't recall seeing them mentioned anywhere in the capital taxes sections of the course.


Edit : Maybe in years to come, Revenue will establish a special 'crypto compliance' taskforce

Probably some more regulation required first by central banks, financial regulators etc. Anyone i know working with financial institutions have to declare any trading they do up front and have minimum holding times etc to prevent any grey areas being entered into.

Very few have any info or procedures relating to crypto currencies as they haven't been properly regulated yet but in saying that it's probably good to be up front about these things unless you want the revenue coming knocking on your door

ZeroThreat

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

Probably some more regulation required first by central banks, financial regulators etc. Anyone i know working with financial institutions have to declare any trading they do up front and have minimum holding times etc to prevent any grey areas being entered into.

Very few have any info or procedures relating to crypto currencies as they haven't been properly regulated yet but in saying that it's probably good to be up front about these things unless you want the revenue coming knocking on your door

Taking an extended break, say somewhere like malta could also help.

pro_gnostic_8

All you lads fixating on Tax need to get a grip on the whole point of Bitcoin, and the roots and philosophy of libertarianism, crypto-anarchism , and self-determination that underlies the protocol.
Bitcoin is a decentalised, disruptive monetary methodology that operates outside the entire State-ist fiduciary system. The point of Bitcoin is to allow you to be in control of your own money, and to disable the State's ability to take (thieve?) your wealth through indirect methods like Q.E. manufactured inflation and through direct methods like Taxation.
If you wish to remain a slave to a State-ist system that wants to remain in control of your wealth, then, well and good -- pay the taxes that the State demands of you. Bitcoin is really not for you. But if you feel you are already being screwed-over through other forms of Taxation and superfluous deductions of your wealth, then, you know what to do. Bitcoin can be your friend in that circumstance.

Just sayin', like.

asteroids over berlin

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

All you lads fixating on Tax need to get a grip on the whole point of Bitcoin, and the roots and philosophy of libertarianism, crypto-anarchism , and self-determination that underlies the protocol.
Bitcoin is a decentalised, disruptive monetary methodology that operates outside the entire State-ist fiduciary system. The point of Bitcoin is to allow you to be in control of your own money, and to disable the State's ability to take (thieve?) your wealth through indirect methods like Q.E. manufactured inflation and through direct methods like Taxation.
If you wish to remain a slave to a State-ist system that wants to remain in control of your wealth, then, well and good -- pay the taxes that the State demands of you. Bitcoin is really not for you. But if you feel you are already being screwed-over through other forms of Taxation and superfluous deductions of your wealth, then, you know what to do. Bitcoin can be your friend in that circumstance.

Just sayin', like.

Impossible, if there is mass adoption, it will be subject to tax. It will never go mainstream otherwise. The fundamentals must evolve.

pro_gnostic_8

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

Impossible, if there is mass adoption, it will be subject to tax.

Absolutely not !
The Bitcoin ecosystem is not subject to a State-administered Taxation model; it is not subject at present and never will be. By definition and by protocol.
It is only those timid persons who are in awe of and are intimidated by State-ist administration who allow themselves to be subject to a regulatory taxation structure.

pro_gnostic_8

Mr.S wrote: »

Nobody wants to pay tax on profits, but in the current climate there’s no getting around it,

Oh, there most certainly is !
If you allow yourself the freedom from being intimidated either consciously or unconsciously by Fear, you will discover the techniques to do so.

AndrewJRenko

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

Impossible, if there is mass adoption, it will be subject to tax.

Absolutely not !
The Bitcoin ecosystem is not subject to a State-administered Taxation model; it is not subject at present and never will be. By definition and by protocol.
It is only those timid persons who are in awe of and are intimidated by State-ist administration  who allow themselves to be subject to a regulatory taxation structure.

I'm old enough to remember hearing this same oul guff in the 70s and 80s from all the cute hoors with the offshore accounts who were absolutely certain that Revenue would never catch up with them. It didn't work out well for them.

pro_gnostic_8

That was Fiat -- this is Bitcoin. There's a world of difference between the two -- and a googolplex of difficulty difference as to how Revenue can catch the Bitcoin tax evader..

Do yourself a favour by educating yourself on the new technology, its anarcho implications, and its consequences for the global financial system.
Being "old enough" on its own doesn't give you a free pass into pontificating about the necessity of paying tax. Propagandizing newcomers on here about imagined dire repercussions of keeping their bitcoin wealth details private is nothing less than spreading FUD.

asteroids over berlin

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Oh, there most certainly is !
If you allow yourself the freedom from being intimidated either consciously or unconsciously by Fear, you will discover the techniques to do so.

if they (government) are not making cash from it, outright ban, make it illegal, then what! There will be tax! You may even get paid in it one day

Mr. Fancypants

Sooooooo, going back to my original question

mbroaders wrote: »

Has anyone gone through the process of filing in the returns? I believe it is a painful document to fill in. Has anyone gotten any assistance to fill in the CGT form and if so what has your experience been?

I suppose my query is specifically about when converting some of the profits from crypto back into fiat.

ZeroThreat

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

That was Fiat -- this is Bitcoin. There's a world of difference between the two -- and a googolplex of difficulty difference as to how Revenue can catch the Bitcoin tax evader..

Do yourself a favour by educating yourself on the new technology, its anarcho implications, and its consequences for the global financial system.
Being "old enough" on its own doesn't give you a free pass into pontificating about the necessity of paying tax. Propagandizing newcomers on here about imagined dire repercussions of keeping their bitcoin wealth details private is nothing less than spreading FUD.

You can keep your bitcoin wealth tax free, provided you keep it in its digital format online/in your wallet and never 'cash out'.

However, the access ramps of getting on/off the bitcoin express - ie. withdrawls & cashing out is where the taxman can detect your bank balance(s) falling/rising rapidly, and in order to buy assets in the real world you're going to have to 'cash out' sooner or later.

I'm not even talking just about property. You can't even buy precious metals directly in bitcoin as far as I'm aware, or walk into a BMW garage with your trezor/ledger wallet. :pac:


Once there's movement in large sums in a fairly short period of time to/from your bank, you're most likely flagged by some sort of revenue analytic software system that analysis spending patterns, and before long, a brown envelope with a harp stamped on it will be coming through your letterbox...

Any purchases over a couple of grand are flagged, and it's difficult even to take out any significant sum of your own money in cash from the banks.

AndrewJRenko

I'm not even talking just about property. You can't even buy precious metals directly in bitcoin as far as I'm aware, or walk into a BMW garage with your trezor/ledger wallet. :pac:

And even if you could, they would obliged to record details of large transactions and make those details available to Revenue. If you manage to find a way to use your bitcoin to buy a Rolex in Dubai, Revenue can ask you at any time to prove it was bought with taxed income, or they take it away - just like they've done when targeting the criminal gangs.

Can I presume that pro_gnostic_8's disdain for paying tax is matched by disdain for using public services, like roads, airports, schools, hospitals etc?

pro_gnostic_8

ZeroThreat wrote: »

You can't even buy precious metals directly in bitcoin as far as I'm aware, or walk into a BMW garage with your trezor/ledger wallet.

Really?
Wow !
/sarcasm

(At this very moment, I can withdraw all or some of my bitcoin at Bitstamp in the form of .9999 gold.
And, a broker will source a car of your specification -- any car -- for payment in Bitcoin. Hell, I'll source you what you want myself for a nominal 1% commission on top).

pro_gnostic_8

Mr.S wrote: »

Sure we can always move to Malta or Germany

But really, as the previous poster said - if you want to cash out, you’ll need to declare.

More incorrect statements again, I'm afraid. One can comfortably engage in a bitcoin to cash tx without going anywhere near a bank.

I assume you've heard of Localbitcoin where you can sell your coin for cash in in-person trades with no paper, signatures or declarations whatsoever.
Then there is the Over-The-Counter market which is many multiples the size of all the exchanges which we "little people" use.
Finally, for smaller cashouts there are the offshore Bitcoin debit cards such as Xapo, TenX, Monaco. Load up with bitcoin and cash out to cash at ATM's or buy s**t with it.

AndrewJRenko

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

ZeroThreat wrote: »

You can't even buy precious metals directly in bitcoin as far as I'm aware, or walk into a BMW garage with your trezor/ledger wallet.

Really?
Wow !
/sarcasm

(At this very moment, I can withdraw all or some of my bitcoin at Bitstamp in the form of .9999  gold.
And, a broker will source a car of your specification -- any car -- for payment in Bitcoin. Hell, I'll source you what you want myself for a nominal 1% commission on top).

Is the broker in Ireland, and subject to the money laundering reporting regulations? Or is he outside Ireland, requiring you to register for VRT when you bring the car in?

noel100

Bitcoin is up $400 on reports Amazon accepting Bitcoin.
So if this is the case how can you declare profit the pay taxes in euro as Bitcoin is starting to be accepted as a currency in it's own right.

wally1990

For your information about tax on gains for crypto a response from
The revenue about crypto

http://bitcoinsinireland.com/irish-legal-position-march14reddit/

AndrewJRenko

I assume you've heard of Localbitcoin where you can sell your coin for cash in in-person trades with no paper, signatures or declarations whatsoever.
Then there is the Over-The-Counter market which is many multiples the size of all the exchanges which we "little people" use.
Finally, for smaller cashouts there are the offshore Bitcoin debit cards such as Xapo, TenX, Monaco. Load up with bitcoin and cash out to cash at ATM's or buy s**t with it.

So you're going to end up with assets or lifestyle that doesn't match your declared taxed income? That's a great way to come to the attention of Revenue or CAB.

pro_gnostic_8

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Can I presume that pro_gnostic_8's disdain for paying tax is matched by disdain for using public services, like roads, airports, schools, hospitals etc?

Ahhh yes, that old red-herring again.
I could counter by asking if you are happy having your tax contributions going to fund the obscenely inflated pensions of retired dead-beat TD's, or funding the bailout of corrupt banks and unsecured bondholders and building developers, of seeing it making up part of the 64Billion ransom demanded by Brussels?

noel100

Uncle of mine sold his house in London for £350k before the refendum last year. Transferred to euros in Ireland bought a cheap house here and money he has now has a profit if he converted back to pounds. Does he have to pay tax i don't think so.
If you have Bitcoin and able to buy goods directly from bitcoin do you pay capital gains tax I can't see how that can be inforced.

pro_gnostic_8

Mr.S wrote: »

Ok, lets say you want to get a mortgage what then? Or when you want to store your newly found cash from in-person trades into an account because you don't want to have piles of cash? Pay rent?

I can't see what relevance paying a mortgage has with converting Bitcoin to cash. Honestly.
And if you "don't want to have piles of cash" why convert from BTC to cash in the first place?
You've genuinely lost me.

pro_gnostic_8

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you're going to end up with assets or lifestyle that doesn't match your declared taxed income? That's a great way to come to the attention of Revenue or CAB.

You strike me as an intelligent fella; some-one who would be inventive enough to "fly under the radar" or to find ways to discreetly enjoy your new-found wealth.
Of course, there are other ways to address this issue (if it would be an issue to you) -- non-resident accounts in investor-friendly territories; buying property abroad, etc etc. But hey, I'm not here to give a 101 course in money-laundering or tax evasion. Let Google be your friend for that.

pro_gnostic_8

noel100 wrote: »

Bitcoin is up $400 on reports Amazon accepting Bitcoin.

This would be momentous if it turned out to be true.
I doubt, however, that Amazon will be accepting Bitcoin at any time in the near future.

ZeroThreat

Crypto may be good for 'hodling' , speculation or as a store of wealth (esp. BTC) but at this point in history, the value is way too volatile for most businesses to accept as payment.

LoLth

Th OPs understanding is correct. You are subject to capital gains tax and you are bound, by law, to declare it.

There are legal ways to reduce this liability but methods to avoid it completely through whatever roundabout method regardless of your political beliefs are illegal.

The boards.ie terms of use is that you will not post illegal material. This includes "how-tos" and encouragement to commit illegal acts.

Discussion of law and legal obligation in relation to crypto-currency is fine. Discussion about how to circumvent legal responsibility is not.

pro_gnostic_8 : your views are your own but please respect the rules of the forum.

pro_gnostic_8

LoLth wrote: »

The boards.ie terms of use is that you will not post illegal material. This includes "how-tos" and encouragement to commit illegal acts.

pro_gnostic_8 : your views are your own but please respect the rules of the forum.

Noted.
Apologies for any disquiet caused.

wally1990

Like it's seems that once the crypto is converted to EURO
CGt becomes liable but this is where the funds are directly linked to your account but what if someone is using Monero coin which is where the ending and receiving addresses as well as transacted amounts are obfuscated by default. Transactions on the Monero blockchain cannot be linked to a particular user or real-world identity as they state
What if Monero was used between different TP accounts
Surely that's tax evasion?
It's simply trying to avoid which but lord how the Revenue would catch that
Public excHnge records transfer are a mine field for a tax analyst who doesn't understand and the fiat currency and their gains of losses will not be back in your own personal current accounts but rather. TP and using Monero for transfers

AndrewJRenko

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

I can't see what relevance paying a mortgage has with converting Bitcoin to cash. Honestly.
And if you "don't want to have piles of cash" why convert from BTC to cash in the first place?
You've genuinely lost me.

I don't think he's talking about paying a mortgage, he's talking about getting a mortgage - and the application process where you have to set out your income and expenditure in a fair amount of detail, and any dependence on off-the-books cash would shine through.

noel100 wrote: »

Uncle of mine sold his house in London for £350k before the refendum last year. Transferred to euros in Ireland bought a cheap house here and money he has now has a profit if he converted back to pounds. Does he have to pay tax i don't think so.

It's not to do with 'having a profit'. Unless he is trading in property as his main business, he's not 'having a profit'. I don't know the UK CGT rules, but if they are similar to here, he won't have any CGT liability from selling his principal private residence - presuming that he lived in the London house in question.

noel100 wrote: »

If you have Bitcoin and able to buy goods directly from bitcoin do you pay capital gains tax I can't see how that can be inforced.

Same way as Revenue enforce tax liability on all forms of cash transactions, under-the-counter payments, off-shore payments and more - by gathering intelligence and looking for unusual patterns of income vs expenditure.

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

You strike me as an intelligent fella; some-one who would be inventive enough to "fly under the radar" or to find ways to discreetly enjoy your new-found wealth.
Of course, there are other ways to address this issue (if it would be an issue to you) -- non-resident accounts in investor-friendly territories; buying property abroad, etc etc.

Lots of cute hoors who thought they had non-resident accounts in 'investor-friendly' Switzerland found themselves facing rather large tax bills when the Swiss started talking. How can you be sure that your 'investor-friendly' territority will remain 'investor-friendly'?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-more-swiss-banks-report-hidden-american-accounts-1433868867

And as for property abroad, Revenue share details with their counterparts abroad, so it is pretty difficult to hide stuff. If you think you're smarter than the combined resources of international tax authorities, you're probably not.

LoLth wrote: »

Th OPs understanding is correct. You are subject to capital gains tax and you are bound, by law, to declare it.

Is it actually 100% clear that CGT would apply? I was surprised at the letter from Noonan's private secretary that focused solely on CGT. If you are trading any currency (including bitcoin) for a living, then surely income tax would apply, at higher rates than CGT and with liability in the year of trading, not depending on when you cash out.

wally1990 wrote: »

Like it's seems that once the crypto is converted to EURO
CGt becomes liable but this is where the funds are directly linked to your account but what if someone is using Monero coin which is where the ending and receiving addresses as well as transacted amounts are obfuscated by default. Transactions on the Monero blockchain cannot be linked to a particular user or real-world identity as they state
What if Monero was used between different TP accounts
Surely that's tax evasion?
It's simply trying to avoid which but lord how the Revenue would catch that
Public excHnge records transfer are a mine field for a tax analyst who doesn't understand and the fiat currency and their gains of losses will not be back in your own personal current accounts but rather. TP and using Monero for transfers

I don't know anything about Monero, but doesn't the same problem arise that at some stage, you need to take funds out into the real world to use them to buy stuff?

AndrewJRenko

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Ahhh yes, that old red-herring again.
I could counter by asking if you are happy having your tax contributions going to fund the obscenely inflated pensions of retired dead-beat TD's, or funding the bailout of corrupt banks and unsecured bondholders and building developers, of seeing it making up part of the 64Billion ransom demanded by Brussels?

Do you really want to go there? We're going to go slightly off-topic but your dissatisfaction with past Government policies does not allow you to make up your own rules, legally or morally. I guess it answers my question that you're quite happy to benefit from the public services you use but not to share in the legal liability to pay for them.

MOBH

I am also after the same information that the thread was setup for. Based on CGT I am assuming that anything above €1270 you pay 33% tax on that. Few questions I hope you can assist with… made a few thousand at the start of the year from crypto but currently down a few from BCH. From my understanding I can’t use the current money I am down from BCH until I sell and then have a declared lose – that correct? If that is so – and for example I sell next year and make a lose will I be able to offset that against tax I pay?
Also, all fees associated with buying & selling crypto’s can be taken off the tax I owe – As a cost of doing business. Is that correct?  Any info be greatly appreciated.

ZeroThreat

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I don't think he's talking about paying a mortgage, he's talking about getting a mortgage - and the application process where you have to set out your income and expenditure in a fair amount of detail, and any dependence on off-the-books cash would shine through.


It's not to do with 'having a profit'. Unless he is trading in property as his main business, he's not 'having a profit'. I don't know the UK CGT rules, but if they are similar to here, he won't have any CGT liability from selling his principal private residence - presuming that he lived in the London house in question.



Same way as Revenue enforce tax liability on all forms of cash transactions, under-the-counter payments, off-shore payments and more - by gathering intelligence and looking for unusual patterns of income vs expenditure.



Lots of cute hoors who thought they had non-resident accounts in 'investor-friendly' Switzerland found themselves facing rather large tax bills when the Swiss started talking. How can you be sure that your 'investor-friendly' territority will remain 'investor-friendly'?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-more-swiss-banks-report-hidden-american-accounts-1433868867

And as for property abroad, Revenue share details with their counterparts abroad, so it is pretty difficult to hide stuff. If you think you're smarter than the combined resources of international tax authorities, you're probably not.


Is it actually 100% clear that CGT would apply? I was surprised at the letter from Noonan's private secretary that focused solely on CGT. If you are trading any currency (including bitcoin) for a living, then surely income tax would apply, at higher rates than CGT and with liability in the year of trading, not depending on when you cash out.


I don't know anything about Monero, but doesn't the same problem arise that at some stage, you need to take funds out into the real world to use them to buy stuff?

If you were doing well and had to pay income tax, you'd really be stuffed. With the USC increase for over 100k self-employed & prsi, you'd be paying 55% over to the taxman.

I know people mentioned living in Germany for zero tax on crypto, but I'm sure there's other more attractive places to live that tax crypto at a significantly lower rate than Ireland at least.

unkel

NL has no CGT :cool:

LoLth

I know its a service and this page is essentially an advertisement but the claims they make concerning tax obligations are no incorrect (or at least they have not yet been corrected and we can assume that the service has been provided in practise and Revenue have accepted their interpretation of the requirement).

https://www.taxback.com/blog/cracking-the-code-of-irish-cryptocurrency-tax

CGT does indeed apply.

good argument on whether a sole-source of income should be income tax rather than CGT but I would imagine thats just muddying the waters. I would advise that traders remain compliant by filling in the form11 and allowing Revenue to query the particulars if necessary.

"i didnt think it was relevant" is not usually a good excuse for non-compliance and "I don't agree with your fundamental reason
for being or the Irish constitution on which you were founded" has never been successful defense in court as far as I am aware (in cases related to compliance obligations and Government agencies).

ZeroThreat

Wouldn't be so bad if we still had the older 20% rate.

The 33% is basically the hiking of the rate by 2/3s which leaves us with one of the highest capital tax rates in the world.

Feckofff

mbroaders wrote: »

My understanding is that any gains from cryptocurrency (above 1270 euro) are susceptible to capital gains tax. Has anyone gone through the process of filing in the returns? I believe it is a painful document to fill in. Has anyone gotten any assistance to fill in the CGT form and if so what has your experience been?

Maybe for Etheriem etc but Bitcoin is a currency not an asset. There is no tax liability for personal forex trading so it seems obvious that Bitcoin would be tax exempt.

myshirt

Feckofff wrote: »

Maybe for Etheriem etc but Bitcoin is a currency not an asset. There is no tax liability for personal forex trading so it seems obvious that Bitcoin would be tax exempt.

What!??!

Whatever Accountant told you that needs to be sacked. Report them immediately. That is extremely dangerous advice. I deal with Revenue on this day in day out.

You absolutely do pay tax on personal FX trading. For everyone else wondering, for tax purposes just think of Bitcoin as a FX. When you dispose of it (if you dispose of it) the liability will arise as normal.

@Feckoff if you have not paid your tax, I'd recommend you regularise it asap before it snowballs.

JonnyM

Whats the difference between making money from bitcoin etc vs winning the lottery/winning money in the bookies??

Copper_pipe

JonnyM wrote: »

Whats the difference between making money from bitcoin etc vs winning the lottery/winning money in the bookies??

Was wondering this also, I have a Skrill account and Skrill card for my online gambling.

Could I not just convert to BTC and sell my BTC on localbitcoins for transfer to my Skrill account?

ToxicPaddy

JonnyM wrote: »

Whats the difference between making money from bitcoin etc vs winning the lottery/winning money in the bookies??

The lottery is tax free as stated by the state. Gambling is not considered an income or CGT so there is no tax on it.

Crypto currencies are seen as assets and as such an gains from them are taxed as CGT

Feckofff

myshirt wrote: »

What!??!

Whatever Accountant told you that needs to be sacked. Report them immediately. That is extremely dangerous advice. I deal with Revenue on this day in day out.

You absolutely do pay tax on personal FX trading. For everyone else wondering, for tax purposes just think of Bitcoin as a FX. When you dispose of it (if you dispose of it) the liability will arise as normal.

@Feckoff if you have not paid your tax, I'd recommend you regularise it asap before it snowballs.

There is a great deal of confusion (deliberately so if you ask me) on the tax tratment for FX in Ireland.
Companies and professionals who primary activity is FX trading are liable to tax.
However I have never seen an answer from revenue which applies directly to personal tax as it would appear to be unworkable.

E.g. you hold a sterling bank account, but buy something on Amazon.co.uk in sterling using an Irish debit card. Is this now a transaction that needs to be accounted for with revenue. What about families who live on the boarder? etc etc etc

I do recall something similar being mentioned by one of the well know accountancy firms. But again never clarified.

Edit: to be togue and cheek, we could always follow the example of our former minister for finance (ahearn) and "win it on the horses"

ToxicPaddy

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Was wondering this also, I have a Skrill account and Skrill card for my online gambling.

Could I not just convert to BTC and sell my BTC on localbitcoins for transfer to my Skrill account?

That's entirely up to you, but I don't think we should be discussing ways to skirt the tax laws of the country.

ZeroThreat

Feckofff wrote: »

There is a great deal of confusion (deliberately so if you ask me) on the tax tratment for FX in Ireland.
Companies and professionals who primary activity is FX trading are liable to tax.
However I have never seen an answer from revenue which applies directly to personal tax as it would appear to be unworkable.

E.g. you hold a sterling bank account, but buy something on Amazon.co.uk in sterling using an Irish debit card. Is this now a transaction that needs to be accounted for with revenue. What about families who live on the boarder? etc etc etc

I do recall something similar being mentioned by one of the well know accountancy firms. But again never clarified.

Edit: to be togue and cheek, we could always follow the example of our former minister for finance (ahearn) and "win it on the horses"

Following the example of such shady characters as government ministers is not to be advised.

noel100

If I own Bitcoin and it rises in value and I can buy property in Bitcoin as there is 1 advertised for only bitcoins how can you be liable for tax.

https://m.theepochtimes.com/londons-first-bitcoin-only-property-sale-worth-17-million-2_2332743.html

ZeroThreat

noel100 wrote: »

If I own Bitcoin and it rises in value and I can buy property in Bitcoin as there is 1 advertised for only bitcoins how can you be liable for tax.

https://m.theepochtimes.com/londons-first-bitcoin-only-property-sale-worth-17-million-2_2332743.html

I'd imagine that inland revenue would investigate the accounts of someone who purchased such a big ticket item with crypto.

AndrewJRenko

noel100 wrote: »

If I own Bitcoin and it rises in value and I can buy property in Bitcoin as there is 1 advertised for only bitcoins how can you be liable for tax.

https://m.theepochtimes.com/londons-first-bitcoin-only-property-sale-worth-17-million-2_2332743.html

Because your tax liability still applies, regardless of what currency the transaction takes place in. What do you think happens when you register the property sale with UK property registration authority?

ZeroThreat

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Because your tax liability still applies, regardless of what currency the transaction takes place in. What do you think happens when you register the property sale with UK property registration authority?

With advances in medical technology eventually the only certainty in life will be taxes alone.

nxbyveromdwjpg

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Because your tax liability still applies, regardless of what currency the transaction takes place in. What do you think happens when you register the property sale with UK property registration authority?

Are you saying then that if I was to buy £20 sterling and spend it in the UK, that if sterling happened to rise between buying and spending that I should be declaring for CGT?

AndrewJRenko

Casen Gifted Snakebite wrote: »

Are you saying then that if I was to buy £20 sterling and spend it in the UK, that if sterling happened to rise between buying and spending that I should be declaring for CGT?

Are we really talking about £20 transactions here?

noel100

So if Sterling collapsed and 5050euros could buy a house in London worth 17million pounds why would you pay tax on it.