The Truth About Dairy

Unearthly

_Brian wrote: »

In fairness the typical vegan mind is a completely alien construct to me. This I’m trying to see where the boundaries of such an alien landscape would lie.

And here lies the problem. You are so indoctrinated into drinking another animals milk that you can't comprehend other people not doing it.

Objectively looking at it, an Alien would probably side with the vegans logic

davidjtaylor

Unearthly wrote: »

Objectively looking at it, an Alien would probably side with the vegans logic

Or, siding with the logic of this board’s trolls (subjectively looking at it, if you like), an alien would start farming humans.

gozunda

Unearthly wrote: »

And here lies the problem. You are so indoctrinated into drinking another animals milk that you can't comprehend other people not doing it.
Objectively looking at it, an Alien would probably side with the vegans logic

And therin lies the problem. It could be said that you are so indoctrinated against consuming dairy products you can't comprehend other people doing it.

Nice of you to co-opt all potential intergalactic populations into your belief system without consulting them first!. Btw Aliens are highly unlikely to 'side with vegans' lol
See:
https://aeon.co/essays/if-aliens-treated-us-like-vegans-treat-animals-we-d-be-toast

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

And here lies the problem. You are so indoctrinated into drinking another animals milk that you can't comprehend other people not doing it.

Objectively looking at it, an Alien would probably side with the vegans logic

I don’t like milk, haven’t drank it in maybe 35years.

I’m very happy for people to have opinions and lifestyles. The alien thing to me is shoving your beliefs down the throats of others, making a general nuisance of themselves.

This my question, blind people don’t need guide dogs, plenty get on without them. So why don’t vegans abuse the blind folk who do ??
Why single out butchers for example as happened recently ??

Unearthly

gozunda wrote: »

And therin lies the problem. You are so indoctrinated against consuming dairy products you can't comprehend othet people doing it.

Nice of you to co-opt all potential intergalactic populations into your belief system without consulting them first!. Btw Aliens are highly unlikely to 'side with vegans' lol
See:
https://aeon.co/essays/if-aliens-treated-us-like-vegans-treat-animals-we-d-be-toast

Pretty much everyone in my life bar 2 people consume dairy and I don't have an intolerance to them

I'm more than happy to explain my reasons when prompted

What I do have a problem with is money vested interests farmers (thankfully I don't know farmers in outside world) coming into a vegan and vegetarian forum and calling our dietary preferences alien.

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

Pretty much everyone in my life bar 2 people consume dairy and I don't have an intolerance to them

I'm more than happy to explain my reasons when prompted

What I do have a problem with is money vested interests farmers (thankfully I don't know farmers in outside world) coming into a vegan and vegetarian forum and calling our dietary preferences alien.

I said I find the construct alien to me, not that your preferences were alien.
This is a good enough example of twisting what is said to suit your addenda rather than answering the topic as the questions are perhaps getting a bit too close to the bone.

Perhaps I could switch questioning

Pesticides eliminate a huge number of insects and rodents to protect crops that go to fill tie vegan shopping baskets, how is this reconciled within the community ??

Even in organic farming nematodes are employed to consume copious numbers of slugs and snails. The nematodes are anform or naturally occurring worm, they are farmed, dried and then on organic farms rehydrates amd spread on the ground to consume invertebrates to protect crops. Would this farming and use of farmed animals mean that organic farmed fruits and vegetables are avoided as part of a vegan diet ?

Unearthly

_Brian wrote: »

I said I find the construct alien to me, not that your preferences were alien.
This is a good anoughnexample of twisting what is said to suit your addenda rather than answering the topic as the questions are perhaps getting a bit too close to the bone.

Perhaps I could switch questioning

Pesticides eliminate a huge number of insects and rodents to protect crops that go to fill tie vegan shopping baskets, how is this reconciled within the community ??

Even in organic farming nematodes are employed to consume copious numbers of slugs and snails. The nematodes are anform or naturally occurring worm, they are farmed, dried and then on organic farms rehydrates amd spread on the ground to consume invertebrates to protect crops. Would this farming and use of farmed animals mean that organic farmed fruits and vegetables are avoided as part of a vegan diet ?

Well for me I am not saying every thing is perfect. I do the best I can.

Could I have been a vegan hundreds of years ago and lived a healthy nutritional life? No. In future if technology advances and I can live a life that reduces any life at all being affected, then I'm on board. The intention is not there from me to kill any insects or rodents.

Anyway the biggest mistake people make about vegans is lumping us all in together. A vegan attacks old people at supermarket, I'm asked to justify this.

My reasons for going vegan are personal and are most likely very different to the next

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

Well for me I am not saying every thing is perfect. I do the best I can.

Could I have been a vegan hundreds of years ago and lived a healthy nutritional life? No. In future if technology advances and I can live a life that reduces any life at all being affected, then I'm on board. The intention is not there from me to kill any insects or rodents.

Anyway the biggest mistake people make about vegans is lumping us all in together. A vegan attacks old people at supermarket, I'm asked to justify this.

My reasons for going vegan are personal and are most likely very different to the next

Indeed.
To me the biggest mistake people make is implying all farmers have no interest in the health and welfare of their animals and abuse them at every opportunity, but hey, it’s all a matter of perspective.

_Brian

I would still love a Vegans perspective on these questions.


Pesticides eliminate a huge number of insects and rodents to protect crops that go to fill tie vegan shopping baskets, how is this reconciled within the community ??

Even in organic farming nematodes are employed to consume copious numbers of slugs and snails. The nematodes are anform or naturally occurring worm, they are farmed, dried and then on organic farms rehydrates amd spread on the ground to consume invertebrates to protect crops. Would this farming and use of farmed animals mean that organic farmed fruits and vegetables are avoided as part of a vegan diet ?

gozunda

Unearthly wrote: »

Pretty much everyone in my life bar 2 people consume dairy and I don't have an intolerance to them
I'm more than happy to explain my reasons when prompted. What I do have a problem with is money vested interests farmers (thankfully I don't know farmers in outside world) coming into a vegan and vegetarian forum and calling our dietary preferences alien.

I've always wondered why so much of the V&V forum is devoted to attacking all types of farming - see the subject of this thread for example. The same farming which produces food and is an important part of The Irish economy. Imo it would be akin to group of people attacking rice farmers because they decide not to eat rice or banana plantations being denigrated because I don't like bananas or goat herders being maligned because a group of locals don't like eating goat.

Where such attacks are prevalent do not be surprised that farmers and others are going to hold such attacks up to scrutiny. I have no problem with what any one eats - I do have a problem with some referring to people choosing to drink milk as 'indoctrinated' ...

Unearthly

_Brian wrote: »

Indeed.
To me the biggest mistake people make is implying all farmers have no interest in the health and welfare of their animals and abuse them at every opportunity, but hey, it’s all a matter of perspective.

I remember someone in after hours said they and their family raised pigs from birth to the end. Treated them well, raised them as pets essentially, then when the slaughtered happened, they sat around the table and discussed with each other which pig they were eating (They had them named)

That to me is an Alien construct but sure look it is what it is

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

I remember someone in after hours said they and their family raised pigs from birth to the end. Treated them well, raised them as pets essentially, then when the slaughtered happened, they sat around the table and discussed with each other which pig they were eating (They had them named)

That to me is an Alien construct but sure look it is what it is

Yea that was me, so your searching my history to somehow discredit my opinions ?

You see I’ll amswer any question about that process that anyone has, I’m proud we rear our own food and know 100% it’s origin amd the life it lived, I’m not cowering away from it being a living animal that was killed for my food supply. I’ve no problem with the process.
Food isn’t something from a shop shelf, we need to know it’s lifecycle, to reconcile that with our opinions and our own lifestyle.


Yet, I see no answer about the questions inraised about all the sentient creatures killed in horrific ways to fill vegan shopping baskets. The same vegans who look down on me for rearing pigs and having them killed in govt approved facilities to the highest standards.

Can you see the double standard being applied here ?? Anyone ??

Unearthly

Fairly sure it wasn't you Brian. Let me go check.

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

Fairly sure it wasn't you Brian. Let me go check.

I’m fairly sure it was.

I’d rather an answer on the double standards problem.

Unearthly

_Brian wrote: »

I’m fairly sure it was.

I’d rather an answer on the double standards problem.

Nope.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109126253&postcount=347

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

Nope.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109126253&postcount=347

Kindred spirit so. We do the exact same thing.

Anyhow.

Back to this double standard issue ??

Unearthly

_Brian wrote: »

Kindred spirit so. We do the exact same thing.

Anyhow.

Back to this double standard issue ??

I've already addressed this issue. It's not my intention to do so. If technology advances and eliminates all these issues then I'm on board. Same way modern life allows us to live our lives without having to kill pigs and cows

If I were intentionally killing insects, naming them, raising them, and eating them then that would be me being a hypocrite

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

I've already addressed this issue. It's not my intention to do so. If technology advances and eliminates all these issues then I'm on board

If I were intentionally killing insects, naming them, raising them, and eating them then that would be me being a hypocrite

But someone is intentionally killing insects and invertebrates on your behalf. Your buying goods from them and by doing so justifying their actions and indeed paying them to do so.

Is it ok if I don’t name the heifer that we have identified for the freezer ?, she has a number but that’s a government thing, she spends her time with the rest of the herd so not a pet.

_Brian

I estimate we will get meat for seven people from the humane killing of one heifer.

My guess is that for a vegans fruit and veg thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of insects and invertebrates will have been killed off.

Maybe I missed something, is there a limit or some measurements below which it’s ok to farm animals and kill them for your food production ?

Unearthly

_Brian wrote: »

But someone is intentionally killing insects and invertebrates on your behalf. Your buying goods from them and by doing so justifying their actions and indeed paying them to do so.

Is it ok if I don’t name the heifer that we have identified for the freezer ?, she has a number but that’s a government thing, she spends her time with the rest of the herd so not a pet.

As I said I'm doing the best I can. Nothing is perfect. You are able to raise an animal from birth with the intention to kill them later. It's not something I could do but sure look we are all different

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

As I said I'm doing the best I can. Nothing is perfect. You are able to raise an animal from birth with the intention to kill them later. It's not something I could do but sure look we are all different

But your ok with the slaughter of invertebrates and insects for your food ?

Or is it ok because someone else is doing it and you just pick up the nice looking produce with an organic sticker ?

Unearthly

_Brian wrote: »

But your ok with the slaughter of invertebrates and insects for your food ?

Or is it ok because someone else is doing it and you just pick up the nice looking produce with an organic sticker ?

So what do you suggest I do? I'm open to living a life without having to end any life. If you have the answer then Brian you are my new favourite person on boards

_Brian

Just to be clear.

I’m not intentionally pushing these questions to one person, I’d love opinions from other vegans.


And I’m not just being awkward.

Vegans attack, ridicule and look down on the section of the population who consume animals and animal products. Farmers in particular come in for a very hard time from vegans.

I think it’s fair and balanced to understand how the double standard is reconciled within the movement.

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

So what do you suggest I do? I'm open to living a life without having to end any life. If you have the answer then Brian you are my new favourite person on boards

So there is a double standard?
You accept these living creatures are intentionally being killed to produce your food ?

Nekarsulm

gozunda wrote: »

I've always wondered why so much of the V&V forum is devoted to attacking all types of farming ..

It can be directly compared to the Atheism & Agnosticism forum.
It's not sufficient there to have a forum to discuss aspects of everyday living that does not involve religion, the majority of posts are directly about the very things they don't believe exists, and the people who have a different outlook on life.

The biggest difference between the two belief systems (Veganisn and Agnosticism) is that Agnostics don't seem to feel the need to run countrywide advertising campaigns spreading mis-truths and deliberate falsehoods about people who do believe in some type of supreme being.

emaherx

Unearthly wrote: »

Pretty much everyone in my life bar 2 people consume dairy and I don't have an intolerance to them

I'm more than happy to explain my reasons when prompted

What I do have a problem with is money vested interests farmers (thankfully I don't know farmers in outside world) coming into a vegan and vegetarian forum and calling our dietary preferences alien.

Farmers have no issue with your dietry preferences. Notice the threads they are contributing to are all threads intended to deamonise farming and have little to do with vegan diets.

Unearthly

Nekarsulm wrote: »

It can be directly compared to the Atheism & Agnosticism forum.
It's not sufficient there to have a forum to discuss aspects of everyday living that does not involve religion, the majority of posts are directly about the very things they don't believe exists, and the people who have a different outlook on life.

The biggest difference between the two belief systems (Veganisn and Agnosticism) is that Agnostics don't seem to feel the need to run countrywide advertising campaigns spreading mis-truths and deliberate falsehoods about people who do believe in some type of supreme being.

If you type into Google images atheist ads you will see similar Bill boards and bus signs

I'd agree though it's not the best form of marketing.

Incidentally the majority of vegans would be atheist/agnostic according to research

Unearthly

emaherx wrote: »

Farmers have no issue with your dietry preferences. Notice the threads they are contributing to are all threads intended to deamonise farming and have little to do with vegan diets.

There are a fair few threads mainly after hours that get started by non vegans with intention to bash it.

Things can get unnecessarily heated though from both sides (I correctly got a yellow from a mod for a personal attack on Gozunda - sorry Gozunda).

emaherx

Unearthly wrote: »

There are a fair few threads mainly after hours that get started by non vegans with intention to bash it.

Things can get unnecessarily heated though from both sides (I correctly got a yellow from a mod for a personal attack on Gozunda - sorry Gozunda).

Indeed they do. And after hours is pretty much that non stop on every topic not just veganism.

But the vegan and vegetarian forum is where lots of threads are opened with no other intention than to bash farming. People select the worst videos they can find of large industrial farms in countries with very low animal welfare standards then claim all meat/dairy is produced in this manner.

Then some posters are suprised that farmers respond? Even though these same posters will reply in vegan related threads in other forums like after hours!

_Brian

Unearthly wrote: »

There are a fair few threads mainly after hours that get started by non vegans with intention to bash it.

Things can get unnecessarily heated though from both sides (I correctly got a yellow from a mod for a personal attack on Gozunda - sorry Gozunda).

In fairness your willing to step up and converse on difficult topics. Other than yourself I feel allot of vegans are reading this and backing away from something that doesn’t quite fit with heir message rather than conversing about the issue.