Parthenaise cattle.

Farmer Dan

Saw these at the ploughing.
Good looking cattle.
Anyone much experience of them & what sort of calves would you get from black white head or angus cows. Would they bring more muscle to the calves v a limousin.
Appreciate any advice & thanks in advance.

charolais0153

Farmer Dan wrote: »

Saw these at the ploughing.
Good looking cattle.
Anyone much experience of them & what sort of calves would you get from black white head or angus cows. Would they bring more muscle to the calves v a limousin.
Appreciate any advice & thanks in advance.

Bb> pt is my advice

Farmer Dan

charolais0153 wrote: »

Bb> pt is my advice

Thanks charolais0153 & I could see how that would be a great cross.
I have Bwh cow's & used a hereford bull. The calves to be good only when selling I can still only get a hereford price iykwim.
Looking at improving my calves quality & parthenaise caught my eye.

charolais0153

Farmer Dan wrote: »

Thanks charolais0153 & I could see how that would be a great cross.
I have Bwh cow's & used a hereford bull. The calves to be good only when selling I can still only get a hereford price iykwim.
Looking at improving my calves quality & parthenaise caught my eye.

Belgian blue are better than parthanesi. Is what i meant.
Id try and get an easy calving charolais bull for the cows. Parthaneise dont sell well

Willfarman

They don't sell well but they are great cattle. Very docile light boned high kill out percentage. Just had difficulty getting fat score on bullocks at times here.

patsy_mccabe

They have that dreaded Jersey colour about them. Not that well known as a breed either. Doesnt help sell them as stores.

Grueller

The ideal job for these is as a sucker cow and then cross a blue bull onto them.
No point using a blue bull on whiteheads. The cow won't bring out the muscle of the blue. I have gotten up to €4.25 per kg for blue weanlings off of parthenaise cows.

jfh

I picked up one of these cheap last year, purely down to the jersey colour on him,
Off topic, the blue crosses very well on the angus.
Blue cow x angus bull

Grueller

jfh wrote: »

I picked up one of these cheap last year, purely down to the jersey colour on him,
Off topic, the blue crosses very well on the angus.
Blue cow x angus bull

Most bulls cross well with a blue cow to be fair. I have a couple here and the cow brings that bit of muscle to the cross. Have bred good limousine, blonde, parthenaise and blues off of them over the years.

Farmer Dan

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

They have that dreaded Jersey colour about them. Not that well known as a breed either. Doesnt help sell them as stores.

What colour would the calves come parthenaise x whitehead? What attracted me was the double muscling along with easy calving.

Willfarman

Farmer Dan wrote: »

What colour would the calves come parthenaise x whitehead? What attracted me was the double muscling along with easy calving.

Do you sell as weanlings? It's hard to beat a good Charolais on a whitehead in my opinion.

Who2

Charolais are great for selling but they are a big lazy sleepy lump of an animal, you'd need to be getting 200 more than the average animal to allow for the extra loses and the rooting with having them. And as for extra weight they'll carry it alright, but they don't put on anymore than a decent limo or part. It's alright keeping a ch bull if your around the whole time but no good for the part timer. I'd actually have a blue bull ran with the cows than arch again.

charolais0153

Who2 wrote: »

Charolais are great for selling but they are a big lazy sleepy lump of an animal, you'd need to be getting 200 more than the average animal to allow for the extra loses and the rooting with having them. And as for extra weight they'll carry it alright, but they don't put on anymore than a decent limo or part. It's alright keeping a ch bull if your around the whole time but no good for the part timer. I'd actually have a blue bull ran with the cows than arch again.

Easy calving charolais bull and plenty of minerals. Lzf and fiston and the like. A bad white calf is worth as much as a good red or black calf a lot of the time.

Farmer Dan

Willfarman wrote: »

Do you sell as weanlings? It's hard to beat a good Charolais on a whitehead in my opinion.

Weanlings or year & halves.
Working full time so afraid of charolais or Belgian blue.

Who2

charolais0153 wrote: »

Easy calving charolais bull and plenty of minerals. Lzf and fiston and the like. A bad white calf is worth as much as a good red or black calf a lot of the time.

I don't know where your going but there's far more lads around me looking for limo and something with a bit of style rather than big heavy boned slack backed charolais.

charolais0153

Who2 wrote: »

I don't know where your going but there's far more lads around me looking for limo and something with a bit of style rather than big heavy boned slack backed charolais.

Not round here

Grueller

Ye are like 2 bald men fighting over a comb lads. In the weanlings sales there is nothing to touch a blue.

Willfarman

Or here. There's nowhere near enough charolais cattle to meet demand. The c section type blues may be a seller for export but ordinary types (and there are plenty)wouldn't have the gentleman farmer finishers hammering each other at all. Refer to the prices and pictures from Roscommon in the journal.

Grueller

Willfarman wrote: »

Or here. There's nowhere near enough to meet demand.

Blues?

Willfarman

Grueller wrote: »

Blues?

I had to edit it!

Grueller

Willfarman wrote: »

Or here. There's nowhere near enough charolais cattle to meet demand. The c section type blues may be a seller for export but ordinary types (and there are plenty)wouldn't have the gentleman farmer finishers hammering each other at all. Refer to the prices and pictures from Roscommon in the journal.

Listen to David Quinn's mart report on South East for last Wednesdays weanlings show and sale. Charolais society sponsored it. Champion was a charolais weighing 582kg and made €1480.
That is €2.54 per kilo.
On the same night blues were selling for €3 - 3.50 per kilo and up to a tops of about €4.30 per kilo. The c section point of view is way out of date too. I calves 45 cows to a blue in the last year. The rest were billed to parthenaise, blonde and limo to breed replacements. Not one section nor any pull that should have been either. The only bull I have ever had that caused me a lot of sections was actually a charolais bought from a very prominent breeder.
Don't get me wrong, I love charolais cattle. They are noble animals but a blue beats all in the sale ring.

charolais0153

Grueller wrote: »

Listen to David Quinn's mart report on South East for last Wednesdays weanlings show and sale. Charolais society sponsored it. Champion was a charolais weighing 582kg and made €1480.
That is €2.54 per kilo.
On the same night blues were selling for €3 - 3.50 per kilo and up to a tops of about €4.30 per kilo. The c section point of view is way out of date too. I calves 45 cows to a blue in the last year. The rest were billed to parthenaise, blonde and limo to breed replacements. Not one section nor any pull that should have been either. The only bull I have ever had that caused me a lot of sections was actually a charolais bought from a very prominent breeder.
Don't get me wrong, I love charolais cattle. They are noble animals but a blue beats all in the sale ring.

Friend of the auld lad had an exceptional bb jeufer around 280~300 kg i think. Our charolais heifer was 6 weeks older and 390 kgs. Ours made 1100e . his had to be 3.80kg plus to make same price . whats the difference between them

Grueller

I am putting up a docket for some bull weanlings sold recently. The price per kilo average circled in red is dragged a long way back by the limousins.
The oldest blue there was born February 21 2017. The limousins sold as a pair were born early and mid January.
Edit:
Just to relate the topic to the op, two of the best three prices per kilo there were off ptx cows.

Willfarman

The c section is far from out of date. Pedigree blue cattle are unethical at best! I'm not a fan. Cattle should have some stardard of correctness,functionality and proportion. But there's always serious prices for extreme muscled types for export. The Italian mafia like cattle with big arses!

Grueller

charolais0153 wrote: »

Friend of the auld lad had an exceptional bb jeufer around 280~300 kg i think. Our charolais heifer was 6 weeks older and 390 kgs. Ours made 1100e . his had to be 3.80kg plus to make same price . whats the difference between them

6 weeks is 42 days @ 1.25 kg per day conservative estimate. That is 52.5 kg extra at the same weight.
Now she is 290 + 52.5 = 340kg.
1100÷ 340 = €3.23 per kilo. No problem to a quality blue.

charolais0153

Grueller wrote: »

I am putting up a docket for some bull weanlings sold recently. The price per kilo average circled in red is dragged a long way back by the limousins.
The oldest blue there was born February 21 2017. The limousins sold as a pair were born early and mid January.
Edit:
Just to relate the topic to the op, two of the best three prices per kilo there were off ptx cows.

Are the limousins heifers calves

Grueller

Willfarman wrote: »

The c section is far from out of date. Pedigree blue cattle are unethical at best! I'm not a fan. Cattle should have some stardard of correctness,functionality and proportion. But there's always serious prices for extreme muscled types for export. The Italian mafia like cattle with big arses!

We are not going to agree on this but I have been in plenty of charolais breeders yards where there were zippers in cows sides too.
Yes the pedigree blues are sectioned out but very very few commercial blues are nowadays. Our vet has a huge practice and would concur on the sections too.

Grueller

charolais0153 wrote: »

Are the limousins heifers calves

One of them only. Two of the blues were by accident.

Grueller

charolais0153 wrote: »

Are the limousins heifers calves

Are you not one of the younger brigade here? Get out on a Saturday night for pints and not be talking cattle with Auld lads.

CloughCasey1

Grueller wrote: »

Are you not one of the younger brigade here? Get out on a Saturday night for pints and not be talking cattle with Auld lads.

He's still too young for pints yet.

Grueller

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

He's still too young for pints yet.

Never too young sure didn't we all start at 15 with harp and twenty Carroll's. Sure look where it got us.

CloughCasey1

Grueller wrote: »

Never too young sure didn't we all start at 15 with harp and twenty Carroll's. Sure look where it got us.

Flaggins and naggins out back of the sports hall. 5 litre bottels of scrumpy jacks. Before Buckfast for breakfast became popular.

Who2

Grueller wrote: »

Never too young sure didn't we all start at 15 with harp and twenty Carroll's. Sure look where it got us.

I could never smoke carrolls, whatever it was about them. Always benson here with a short stint on Marlboro red. The harp was great stuff, but could turn the quietest of a man angry.

Who2

Now back to cattle nice bums in all shades of color. Or charolais

squinn2912

Have to say I love the parthenaise cattle. I'd have them over the blue cow any day. We've had blue cows for years and I think they're a ball of trouble. Never had one go longer than 3-4 calves. No good. It's early days so far for us with parthenaise but crossed with the lim bull they produce a hell of a calf for weaning, forward store or finisher sales. Bull calves haven't impressed me as much - they don't weigh as well compared with lim and that's AI vrs our stock bull on similar heifers/cows. 
I do agree the char makes a great cross with whiteheads. I wouldn't get a parthenaise bull but very impressed with the heifers. Great, milky and muscle bound breeders. They have a good open pelvic area enabling them to calve with minimal fuss.
As mentioned above they are a relatively new breed so I'd be reluctant to go too far down that route. My idea is to serve more of our first time heifers with parthenaise and compare that with the lim stock bull and AI lim

Farmer Dan

What attracted me to them was & I don't know if any of ye saw them at the ploughing but they had 2 crossbred heifers in the stand with part x calves. One was a shorthorn x heifer & her calf looked good, nice shape etc. Do many here have a parthneaise bull with there sucklers?

Hard Knocks

Would they be best crossed on taller cows to give a muscle & maternal injection?

squinn2912

Plenty of muscle as they are but a bit more frame and power is a good idea

bogman_bass

I have to say they are great cattle. Sold one 2 months ago as a year and a half bullock for 1460 in Delvin.

Take. A limo and make them more muscled and lighter boned and you have a parthenaise essentially.

Try a few AI straws and see how you get on

patsy_mccabe

bogman_bass wrote: »

....
Try a few AI straws and see how you get on

Which AI company would you recommend?

bogman_bass

My experience is with PG bulls but as somebody that is now full time farming i suppose I have time to explore all of them.

If you have a mature cow to experiment on and you want a flashy animal give ZGH a go

Farmer Dan

bogman_bass wrote: »

My experience is with PG bulls but as somebody that is now full time farming i suppose I have time to explore all of them.

If you have a mature cow to experiment on and you want a flashy animal give ZGH a go

Bogman, do you use part bulls much? On what type of cows do you get the best results. Thanks

Tyson Lannister

The 2nd pic here is a part heifer calf off a BWH.

I sold the heifer as not in calf (bought her at three weeks old) and had to take her back when she started to spring down. She calved at 22 months - the smallest calf I have ever seen. She got caught by one of my pedigree part bull weanlings.

1st pic is part off ch cow pictured. The cows mother was an AA bucket fed calf I bought.

I am a big fan of part cattle, use all part straws now and trying to build up
a few pedigrees.

bogman_bass

Farmer Dan wrote: »

bogman_bass wrote: »

My experience is with PG bulls but as somebody that is now full time farming i suppose I have time to explore all of them.

If you have a mature cow to experiment on and you want a flashy animal give ZGH a go

Bogman, do you use part bulls much? On what type of cows do you get the best results. Thanks

I use a fair bit of them. I've used them on BBxFR cows and had animals fit for showing but I've had some hard calvings from that cross too.
Limos out of those cows seem to be the perfect dam for them.

Out of HEx stock I had great growthy animals that have finished well.

Like anything it depends on the market you're chasing

croot

Ive used BZB and ZGH the last few years. I've 3 BZB cows at the moment. I'd love more of them but I got a good few bulls. They sell well probably the same as lims. I will use at least 5 or 6 again this year hopefully.

The cows are good mothers that have calved on their own so far and seem to have milk. Here is a 5 year old BZB cow that calved a month ago with her ZAG calf. Its her fourth calf and she calved first at 23 months and has a CI of 349 days. If I could clone her I would.



This is a newer one of the calf and shows the type of muscle that the parthenaise cow brings. She is a month old now.




This is a ZGH bull from last year. He was from a AA cow.




The problem can be colouring. Here are ZGH twins from a white charloais cow.

Heifer twin


Bull twin

RobinBanks

croot wrote: »

Ive used BZB and ZGH the last few years. I've 3 BZB cows at the moment. I'd love more of them but I got a good few bulls. They sell well probably the same as lims. I will use at least 5 or 6 again this year hopefully.

The cows are good mothers that have calved on their own so far and seem to have milk. Here is a 5 year old BZB cow that calved a month ago with her ZAG calf. Its her fourth calf and she calved first at 23 months and has a CI of 349 days. If I could clone her I would.

Nice stock there croot! How do you find the temperament of BZB. I have a lovely maiden heifer kept for breeding but she is a nervous wreck. Hope she settles a bit because she is to good to let go

squinn2912

See what you mean about the colour and that is true. While with the Lim or Ch you are limited to a few colors which all should work ok for any market the parth can throw up that tiger look and I'm not sure I like it. Seems to be the case with dairy type dams or angus. I'd think it would be fine for finishing but possibly not so much for weanling or store sales. 
That's why I'd be against buying a bull but think they're a cracking breed for replacements to bring in a bit of muscle and milk when crossed back with ch or lim.
Have any of you tried them on Sim cows? Be interesting to see what type of calves they produce.

croot

RobinBanks wrote: »

Nice stock there croot! How do you find the temperament of BZB. I have a lovely maiden heifer kept for breeding but she is a nervous wreck. Hope she settles a bit because she is to good to let go

The three I kept are from really quiet cows but were lively when younger alright. They are fine now. I sold three other lovely BZB heifers that were a bit mad. ZGH calves are pets.

croot

squinn2912 wrote: »

See what you mean about the colour and that is true. While with the Lim or Ch you are limited to a few colors which all should work ok for any market the parth can throw up that tiger look and I'm not sure I like it. Seems to be the case with dairy type dams or angus. I'd think it would be fine for finishing but possibly not so much for weanling or store sales. 
That's why I'd be against buying a bull but think they're a cracking breed for replacements to bring in a bit of muscle and milk when crossed back with ch or lim.
Have any of you tried them on Sim cows? Be interesting to see what type of calves they produce.

Any one I had on an AA came black.

I like them as cows anyway. I’ve tried fiston on another BZB calving in February but thats the first charlaois I’ve tried on them. AI man said they are really roomy so hopefully no calving problems.

I’m down to only two sim cows and both of them are always AI’d to charlois so I don’t know what color you’d get.

squinn2912

Yep I'd agree with him on that. We have two both calve unaided to bulls that some of the lim cows have their fill of it with. Hmm be interesting to see. Just have the two sim cows ourselves and would be more likely to try the party on a maiden heifer.

welton john

IMG_20170930_191102.jpg

IMG_20170923_170850.jpg Sorry about the picture quality , a zgh bull at 6 1/2months, most cows here are charlaois and lim from dairy herd and find the part great to put a bit of quality into the calves, have some pt heifers from this cross and hope they make ideal replacements