Confronting it hasn't worked

LegacyUser

So finally after a long long time I’m able to say I’m getting on OK with my wife. I could link back to a couple of posts I made a couple of years ago and I felt so down about my relationship and I was so scared to do anything about it – but that’s dragging up the past. We got through it and we are out the other side. I wouldn’t call it a loving or very close relationship at all – more like we can get on with each other & have conversations & do things to bring up our child the best way we can. My stress levels are down a lot now since the crossness and anger and coldness have gone and i am really thankful for the lower stress levels.
However the big elephant in the room is sex. None for a couple of years. Even then 2-3 times a year. It looks like now I need to live a sexless life – I’m 42 and would have expected another 20-30 years of sex. It takes me so long to bring it up in conversation (I guess as I already know the result) but now when I do I’m told that’s it – we won’t be having sex, she has no problem with this because she has no desire for it so why would she need to fix a non-existent problem. No open marriage (I’m not really looking for this – I just want to be in a sexually active relationship with my wife) just advice to masturbate whenever I feel the need. It’s so lonely.
According to my wife this is the way half the population is living – what am I getting so worked up about – why am I so focussed on sex – how could i sacrifice relationship/house/finances/breaking our childs heart/upsetting parental families.
I know people living without sex – a couple of single people who just never met the right person, a couple of separated people who never met anyone else. It doesn’t seem to me to affect them so badly & I often wonder why I can’t take their attitude & bury it / ignore it / make it seem less important. I actually find confronting it now very stressful again having buried it for a while and getting by with less stress.

rcarroll

I've been single and had no sex and in a relationship and sex was off the cards. I'd much rather be single tbh. It's two completely different feelings/situations. When I was in the relationship and refused sex, it was heartbreaking, lonely, eroded my self-esteem, made me feel desperate and dirty for wanting it, it created anger and coldness and an emotional disconnect with my partner.

If you're single, it's just how it is, yeah, you miss the physical closeness but it's different, it's not a rejection of who you are, your body, your self, what you bring to the relationship, a rejection of intimacy and closeness with you. All I can say is it's not about taking their attitude of burying/ignore it/make it seem less important...because it IS important, it's what defines a relationship and in my eyes, a relationship can't exist without it (except of course if both people are happy with that). It's usually a symptom that something is very very wrong, either in the relationship or in the person physically/emotionally and it shouldn't really be buried.

milli milli

doireallywanttogo? wrote: »

According to my wife this is the way half the population is living – what am I getting so worked up about – why am I so focussed on sex
.

I see so many threads on here, where the woman stops having sex with her husband and says this is the way it will be for the rest of their lives.
Personally, as a woman, I find this astonishing. As women get older, their sex drive usually increases, not the other way around. I just find it hard to believe that they would just give up something so pleasurable and intimate as sex.
And with total disregard about how their partner feels about it, making them out to be some sort of pervert for thinking about something so natural.

I don't know if it's something that comes with parenthood (I'm not a parent) and the stresses of it, that the woman is too tired and stressed to have sex. But then this would be something temporary.

OP how was your sexlife before all this? Was it intimate, fun, sexy? Were both of you fulfilled? Was it exciting and passionate or was it once-a-week, missionary. Did ye get dressed up for each other, go on dates, make an effort, or was there little seduction, no real effort made?
You don't have to answer these questions but just think about the quality of your sex life.

Personally unless it's a mutual decision or if a partner can't perform due to illness, then I can't see a romantic relationship working without sex. There doesn't even seem to be love or warmth in your relationship. It's just a kind of perfunctory existence so as not to rock the boat. That is no way to live.
Unfortunately you will have to have another talk OP. You have only one life, you shouldn't live this lonely life.

strandroad

OP I'm a 40+ woman and let me tell you that if your wife withdraws sex like that and tells you to just deal with it, it's not just sex that is gone from your relationship, it's also love.

She removes affection as a foundation of the relationship, she has no consideration for your wellbeing and she doesn't care how you cope. She just doesn't care for you.

I'm with my partner many years and yes we had periods of low to no sex life due to health, work overload or low moods. But we would always acknowledge the issue, apologise and look for solutions, and we were always close and trusting. Now it's better than ever and we are looking forward to many many more years of it. If you allow her to treat you like this, this is what you're losing.

SimpleDimples

I remember your previous posts.

Your wife has told you she won't change so you have 3 choices:

1. Either accept that you will never have a sex life again

2. Cheat - not advocating it just listing it as an option

3. Leave - if you're not happy and she doesn't care enough to fix it, then why stay?


It's more than just sex that you are missing, there's no intimacy or respect either and the constant rejection has to impact your self esteem.

There's no guarantee life will be better if you leave but it is up to you to chose. Listen to what she is saying, she's telling you it won't change.

Loveinapril

strandroad wrote: »

I'm with my partner many years and yes we had periods of low to no sex life due to health, work overload or low moods. But we would always acknowledge the issue, apologise and look for solutions, and we were always close and trusting. Now it's better than ever and we are looking forward to many many more years of it. If you allow her to treat you like this, this is what you're losing.

This point is so so important. Sex is about love, respect and care. If one person withdraws this for any reason in a relationship, the correct thing to do is acknowledge and discuss it. I am heavily pregnant and so uncomfortable. I miss having spontaneous regular sex with my husband (and he misses it too!) but we frequently talk about it so we both know it's a lull and will pass.

Your wife has just completely closed the door on a huge part of your relationship without consulting you and it is not fair.

professore

The next time she says how unimportant sex is tell her you've made arrangements to get it somewhere else. Her reaction will tell you a lot. If she gets worked up just tell her if it's so unimportant then why would she care if you get it from someone else?

If she doesn't care at all then she doesn't love you and is probably having an affair.

December2012

Go to a marriage counsellor to talk it out.

SterlingArcher

professore wrote: »

The next time she says how unimportant sex is tell her you've made arrangements to get it somewhere else. Her reaction will tell you a lot. If she gets worked up just tell her if it's so unimportant then why would she care if you get it from someone else?

If she doesn't care at all then she doesn't love you and is probably having an affair.

That is some straight up go walking into the spiders web and see if you get stuck advice.

Op. Make yourself a better person. Focus all your energy you put into this on you amd your child. Making you a better more brilliant bastard.

Work out. Eat good. Read more. Learn new things. Find your fun and enjoyment in life share this with the child . Your partner will no doubt notice this change and either be more attracted, not care or perhaps even be annoyed you are doing better .

The beauty of it is if you have followed this advice and she is not more attracted. you will no longer care, it won't stress you.

Also if you do decide enough is enough. you'll already be one step ahead dealing with the situation in a healthy way and attracting someone else.

The fact is you have compromised your self and self worth. That needs correction before any change in the relationship.

Steampump

Ask her if she is attracted to you, she obviously isn't but you need to hear it.

Then tell her you will be having sex with other women if she is not interested, that's just how it is.

shesty

Jeez that's cold.We would be similar to strandroad, in that we have two small kids, it's been up and down a bit the last few years.But it's acknowledged and we do our best. (I like to think!).I would never say tough ****, we aren't having any more sex ever.

I find it hard to believe that's actually how she sees the rest of her life.Does she realise that the child will grow up and be gone?That someday she won't be tired and she might actually find the desire there?what's she going to do then?

I don't know OP, if you can live it then ok but I think it's quite a cold thing for her to do.Leading me to conclude that she either has somebody else or is just not interested in you anymore.In which case she's just kicking the problem down the road because as I said.....the kids won't stay small forever and one day soon enough it will be you and her looking at each other across the room.....and nothing else.What then?

Vicxas

She's using the child to emotionally blackmail you into staying.

If you're not happy and just "living" with the person you're meant to love for the rest of your life, you're just kidding yourself.

OP i think you seriously need to think about this. This sounds like my idea of hell.

nikkibikki

milli milli wrote:

And with total disregard about how their partner feels about it, making them out to be some sort of pervert for thinking about something so natural.

This. It isn't "just" the no sex and the intimacy that comes with it. It's disregard for your feelings OP. That's a major issue.

milli milli wrote:

I don't know if it's something that comes with parenthood (I'm not a parent) and the stresses of it, that the woman is too tired and stressed to have sex. But then this would be something temporary.

It doesn't come with parenthood at all. We've 3 with twins in the mix. A week without would be too long in my book. It's a great stress reliever in fact. Parents need to make time for each other and their relationship because without them, the family unit risks being separated.


OP, I remember your previous posts though not in great detail. Your wife has not treated you well and you have put up with a lot, more than most would. Please whatever you do, don't cheat. You will be painted as the bad guy and you don't deserve that. Your child may in fact be better off with 2 happy separated parents than he is with at least one miserable one. But, before you even go there, go to couples counselling. And not the ones run by the church.

The marriage as it is now is not what you signed up for. I would even wonder if refusal to have sex for no medical reason etc would be grounds for annulment?

Dial Hard

nikkibikki wrote:

The marriage as it is now is not what you signed up for. I would even wonder if refusal to have sex for no medical reason etc would be grounds for annulment?

Nope. The ship has sailed for a church annulment because the marriage has long since been consummated. Civil annulments are pretty much only granted where it can be shown that one party wasn't in a position to genuinely consent to the marriage, which, again, isn't the case here.

OP, I told you in your last thread that you had a very hard decision to make. That advice stands. Your wife is not going to change. She has told you this to your face. What exactly are you waiting for to happen, exactly???

bee06

Steampump wrote: »

He doesn't actually have a hard decision to make, all he has to do is tell her he will be seeing other women and start enjoying his life.

The OP had already said he doesn't want an open marriage or anything like that.

LegacyUser

SimpleDimples wrote: »

I remember your previous posts.

Your wife has told you she won't change so you have 3 choices:

1. Either accept that you will never have a sex life again

2. Cheat - not advocating it just listing it as an option

3. Leave - if you're not happy and she doesn't care enough to fix it, then why stay?


It's more than just sex that you are missing, there's no intimacy or respect either and the constant rejection has to impact your self esteem.

There's no guarantee life will be better if you leave but it is up to you to chose. Listen to what she is saying, she's telling you it won't change.

Yes - I hadn't posted for ages - but you can probably see the theme from a different post I made & recognise my previous posts. I was ready to move on from the bad feelings of the past - and we have both moved on. I won't say it's great - but it's fine - I don't expect life to be exactly the way I plan it - there's 2 of us plus 1 and there's sacrifices to be made. But now finally confronting the sex issue is bringing back all the negative memories. It's such a pity there's such a big red line there & if we got past that we'd be fine (I think).
But yes - all the self esteem feelings are starting to creep back now.

Thanks anyway

LegacyUser

December2012 wrote: »

Go to a marriage counsellor to talk it out.

Tried it. Twice (ie 2 different counsellors each with 5-6 sessions) She wouldn't come. I think now I might just go to some other counsellor to see if my stress is causing a problem in my marriage - or is my marriage causing all my stress. Once i accepted her way & buried my disappointment with this actually the stress levels reduced - I know that goes against the text books. But confronting it now again is bringing it back.
Not sure what type of counsellor I should see.

LegacyUser

SterlingArcher wrote: »

That is some straight up go walking into the spiders web and see if you get stuck advice.

Op. Make yourself a better person. Focus all your energy you put into this on you amd your child. Making you a better more brilliant bastard.

Work out. Eat good. Read more. Learn new things. Find your fun and enjoyment in life share this with the child . Your partner will no doubt notice this change and either be more attracted, not care or perhaps even be annoyed you are doing better .

The beauty of it is if you have followed this advice and she is not more attracted. you will no longer care, it won't stress you.

Also if you do decide enough is enough. you'll already be one step ahead dealing with the situation in a healthy way and attracting someone else.

The fact is you have compromised your self and self worth. That needs correction before any change in the relationship.

I think this is really good advice & I've actually been kind of following it anyway. An outlook like this helped me ignore the sex problem for a long time - and indeed the relationship improved (albeit from a level it could hardly worsen). But you're absolutely right - you feel better & you stress a bit less that your partner isn't bothered with you.
I think now I've reached a level where I can see myself being OK on my own after a split - hut of course my preference would be a repair rather than a break up. Crystal ball would be great to see if another few month's effort is worth it.

LegacyUser

shesty wrote: »

Jeez that's cold.We would be similar to strandroad, in that we have two small kids, it's been up and down a bit the last few years.But it's acknowledged and we do our best. (I like to think!).I would never say tough ****, we aren't having any more sex ever.

I find it hard to believe that's actually how she sees the rest of her life.Does she realise that the child will grow up and be gone?That someday she won't be tired and she might actually find the desire there?what's she going to do then?

I don't know OP, if you can live it then ok but I think it's quite a cold thing for her to do.Leading me to conclude that she either has somebody else or is just not interested in you anymore.In which case she's just kicking the problem down the road because as I said.....the kids won't stay small forever and one day soon enough it will be you and her looking at each other across the room.....and nothing else.What then?

I'm pretty sure she doesn't have anyone else - I really think she's just a non-sexual person now. Maybe i'm naieve - but i really think she just sees sex as this dirty, smelly, tiring, bothersome messy thing that's for 'young people'. She didn't say all those words - just the bothersome and young people part. I also think her plan is to bring our child up to 18 or 20 or whatever and then go our separate ways maybe. I don't think she wants another partner
I haven't approached her for sex for many months now - and that seemed to allow us get along together better. She wasn't trying to find ways to avoid me, no rejection, so no argument at bed time, no bad feeling as a result. Now I think it's time to address this it's brought all that back again.

LegacyUser

Steampump wrote: »

Then break up, she can leave the home if she wants to, or not.

Yes Steampump - you're probably right. It's just not me - going off with other women etc & trying to hide it all or even getting agreement for it. You know the reality of course will mean me leaving the family home. I know in theory it's all equal rights and access and all - but in reality I'll be out in a starter home somewhere. It'll be fine - we'll have less money & contact will be stressful but we'll get through it I'm sure.
I've taken the step of confiding in a couple of close friends about this - all bar 1 seem really genuinely surprised - thought we had the perfect life & they all really like my wife (which again is putting doubts into my head that I'm just not seeing things right and I'm causing all this)
I think I just had a lot on my mind and had to write it out. Thanks for reading & commenting.

Sleepy

You're not her husband. You're her co-parent and financier.

rcarroll

Forget about the emotional blackmail of 'the kids will be forever ruined' your wife is pulling. Sit down yourself and draw up an optimistic, pessimistic and realistic view of how things would be if you broke up. I want you to really really think about what would happen, not just have this ball of fear about it, because generally, things aren't as bad as when they are imagined.

Talk to people who have seperated, talk to a lawyer ask him/her advice and counsel about what would happen in the process, what you would both be left with, what plan could be worked out for managing finances, house, kids etc. Talk to a good friend about what's been happening and see what they think or talk to someone who's not close to you and can give objective advice. But most of all, talk to your wife. You made a commitment to love and cherish each other. That's changed. Perhaps your wife doesn't want to continue in the relationship any more than you do. Perhaps she's not aware how big an issue this is for you and if you put it to her, not as a threat, but honestly say look, I'm thinking of leaving...it might be the shock she needs to start addressing the elephant in the room.

From what you've said about suggesting counselling and her not going - this doesn't bode well for me. It sounds like she's not interested in fixing things and it might be better for all of you to go your seperate ways. I honestly believe you'll both be much happier if you do. It will be tough, but maybe if she can see you're suffering, and that seperating won't be the end of everything - she'll have support, she'll have financial care, you'll continue co-parenting...maybe it can be done amicably.

Try though to get to the bottom of why she doesn't want sex first - when did it start, after having the babies? What are her feelings about it, did she enjoy it in the past? Is she getting pleasure from it, it might bruise your ego, but maybe she's not actually enjoying the sex and you need to put more effort into learning from her and her body? Would ye consider a sex therapist?

nikkibikki

doireallywanttogo? wrote:

Tried it. Twice (ie 2 different counsellors each with 5-6 sessions) She wouldn't come. I think now I might just go to some other counsellor to see if my stress is causing a problem in my marriage - or is my marriage causing all my stress. Once i accepted her way & buried my disappointment with this actually the stress levels reduced - I know that goes against the text books. But confronting it now again is bringing it back. Not sure what type of counsellor I should see.

All the effort and compromise and sacrifices are coming from you. All to save a marriage which isn't really a marriage at all. She won't see a marriage counsellor because she knows what they will say, that she's not being fair on you. She doesn't care that she is making you miserable. I'd be devastated if I made my husband feel like that about anything. Is she so lacking in empathy in every aspect of her life e.g. with your son?

Can you check with a family law solicitor where you stand legally regarding your child and your house if you were to break up? It'd hardly surprise her if you looked to separate.

lazybones32

OP, i don't know you or your wife but it looks like you are being used. You are there to provide her with a child and look like a husband, so there will be no social stigma towards her for being an unwed, single mother. You are a pawn and pawns are expendable. It sounds like you have genuine feelings for her but it ends there. Your marriage is a facade.

By all means, give it a few more months if you think you can bend over backwards in a new way to satisfy her but the writing is on the wall. You just need to accept it.


But as i said, i don't know you so i could be completely wrong too.

groovyg

doireallywanttogo? wrote: »

I'm pretty sure she doesn't have anyone else - I really think she's just a non-sexual person now. Maybe i'm naieve - but i really think she just sees sex as this dirty, smelly, tiring, bothersome messy thing that's for 'young people'. She didn't say all those words - just the bothersome and young people part. I also think her plan is to bring our child up to 18 or 20 or whatever and then go our separate ways maybe. I don't think she wants another partner
I haven't approached her for sex for many months now - and that seemed to allow us get along together better. She wasn't trying to find ways to avoid me, no rejection, so no argument at bed time, no bad feeling as a result. Now I think it's time to address this it's brought all that back again.

Staying together until your kid is an adult will do more harm than good. You are pretending that its all good when its not, there are lots of kids our there growing up households where the mother and father are not living together and there are lots of adults who have grown up in this scenario as well.

Neyite

doireallywanttogo? wrote: »

You know the reality of course will mean me leaving the family home. I know in theory it's all equal rights and access and all - but in reality I'll be out in a starter home somewhere. It'll be fine - we'll have less money & contact will be stressful but we'll get through it I'm sure.

If you are reasonably amicable, would there be any possibility of you becoming legally separated but living in the same home? I think there might be certain steps to take legally on that process but it's not a legal requirement in order to separate that one half has to move out. Living under the same roof separated can be tricky for most couples but from what I can see, it's more or less what you are doing now unofficially.

Maybe by getting it set out legally, sitting down and working out parental responsibilities, your finances and all that (get independent legal advice first) she might see that this is really crunch time and actually talk to you about what's going on.

Icepick

Any red flags? Was your sex ever good and plentiful? For you? For her?

December2012

What a shame she won't go to counseling.

Is she in love with you?

leggo

The line that summed it up for me was the OP saying he think she's going to raise the kids until they're adults and separate. OP what age will you be by then? There's a good chance that, by that stage, you'll have lost a lot of the opportunity you had for a fresh start, and you'll still end up alone. You've tried everything you could, she's refused to do anything to make it better, and by the sound of things you're going to lose her at some stage anyway. The only variable is whether you get a fair shake at a second chance at happiness or not. Your children will be fine, they'll adapt and you'll be a better parent for them if you're happy and your needs are being met, plus they'll understand when they're older. Don't give your entire life to this woman, you only get one. I think you should start mentally preparing for a split and to find happiness, there's no shame in it, you've tried everything.

milli milli

Sorry OP but your wife checked out of the marriage a long time ago.
She wouldn't go to marriage counselling with you. She says she will split with you when your child is of age!
And you're facilitating this? She's blatantly using you for what you can provide! Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh OP, I know you must be going through a devastating time but this woman is walking all over you.

If you wait til your child is of age - like the previous poster said - how many more years will you have wasted? Possibly the best years of your life? It gets harder to meet new people the older one gets, and time is not always kind, so keep this in mind.

I know you are waiting, perhaps hopeful that things might improve. But really how can they? Your wife refusing to go to counselling- an action that could save your marriage - that would be the nail in the coffin for me.

Being an idealist, I know if I were in your shoes, I'd be doing all I can to save the marriage. You are, but you are the only one. Marriage is team work and your wife has left the club.

doireallywanttogo?

doireallywanttogo? wrote: »

I also think her plan is to bring our child up to 18 or 20 or whatever and then go our separate ways

doireallywanttogo? wrote: »

in reality I'll be out in a starter home somewhere. It'll be fine - we'll have less money & contact will be stressful but we'll get through it I'm sure.

Jesus OP, which is the lesser of two evils here?

You are literally talking about wasting the next decade of your life on someone who clearly doesn't love or respect you.

Don't you see what that will do to you? Don't you see what that will do to your child??

I'm well aware of how unfair things are for the married man leaving the family home but honestly in your situation it's the best thing to do ... both for yourself and for your child.

.......

This post has been deleted.

Johnnyhpipe

Are you aware if she was abused at any point? Its sickening to know that 1 in 4 women in this ****hole world have been and your current situation is often a consequence of that.

Sleepy

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

Are you aware if she was abused at any point? Its sickening to know that 1 in 4 women in this ****hole world have been and your current situation is often a consequence of that.

That's a bull**** statistic that has been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked. And EVEN if you were right, being a victim of sexual abuse in the past wouldn't excuse the OP's wife's actions.

OP - is your reluctance to separate with your wife based on fear of her witholding access to your children? Or is it out of some hopeless fantasy that she'll eventually "come around"?

If it's the former, you have my sympathies and my advice would be to quietly take steps to begin separation proceedings, ensuring you have the best family lawyer that you can afford at your disposal before discussing separations with your wife. Don't just go to the same solicior you used for conveyancing / wills etc., find one who actually specialises in family law and has a good record at ensuring fathers get a fair outcome in the separation).

If it's the latter, you need to get real. If there was any chance of salvaging this marriage, your wife would have agreed to the counselling. She won't attend because she either doesn't want to hear that she could possibly be at fault for the shocking state of your marriage, or because as you already suspect she's checked out a long time ago and is only staying with you because you can help provide a nicer lifestyle for her until the kids are grown and she can finally be rid of you completely.

My advice would be the same either way unless there's some details you're leaving out...

LegacyUser

Sleepy wrote: »

That's a bull**** statistic that has been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked. And EVEN if you were right, being a victim of sexual abuse in the past wouldn't excuse the OP's wife's actions.

OP - is your reluctance to separate with your wife based on fear of her witholding access to your children? Or is it out of some hopeless fantasy that she'll eventually "come around"?

If it's the former, you have my sympathies and my advice would be to quietly take steps to begin separation proceedings, ensuring you have the best family lawyer that you can afford at your disposal before discussing separations with your wife. Don't just go to the same solicior you used for conveyancing / wills etc., find one who actually specialises in family law and has a good record at ensuring fathers get a fair outcome in the separation).

If it's the latter, you need to get real. If there was any chance of salvaging this marriage, your wife would have agreed to the counselling. She won't attend because she either doesn't want to hear that she could possibly be at fault for the shocking state of your marriage, or because as you already suspect she's checked out a long time ago and is only staying with you because you can help provide a nicer lifestyle for her until the kids are grown and she can finally be rid of you completely.

My advice would be the same either way unless there's some details you're leaving out...

Thanks Sleepy - It's the latter - and yes I do need to get real. You've nailed it really - accepting fault for anything has really been a big problem for her - I mean over really trivial unimportant things, but of course now with this large problem (as perceived by me) there's no way she could be at fault.
You're right also about wanting the nicer lifestyle - but she's really just depending on me not to have the courage to face up to this and of course that likely means getting out.

She's not nasty - I said at the start we get on OK now (there was quite a level of nastiness in the past & it really wore me / broke me down over time). And our son does actually have 2 happy parents - I'm in great form with him all of the time and he is such fun & I'm so proud of him. We are in relatively good form with each other & I think me expecting the sex to return to our lives now but seeing this rejection again is making me feel like it's just been an act (ie the act of us actually getting on OK)

nikkibikki

Are you actually happy though or just behaving happy around your son?

Can you keep this up til he's finished college?