Can I refuse to do overtime?

CinthiaQueiroz

Hello guys,

I've just started working in a new position this week and found out yesterday that they don't pay for overtime.
Thi thing is that during the interview I was asked if I was willing to do overtime because the position would require that but it was never mentioned that this would be an unpaid overtime.
I got my contract on the second day of training and I signed it fast because I was working. I saw there was nothing written about overtime but my previous position also didn't have anything written and the overtime was payed.

So, am I forced to do overtime or can I refuse it? And how many hours can they ask me to do?

On my contract they cleverly wrote that my minimum working hours is 39 per week but salary says xxx gross per year.

I am thinking about going to the HR to complain but I am not sure if I can do that.

Thanks

Tzardine

You can refuse but remember that you can be terminated quite easily in your first year. They obviously expect you to work it as they mentioned it in the interview. You could go to complain to HR but in all honestly you would probably be placing a mark over your head.

48 hours per week averaged out over 4 months is the max you can work (different for some industries but this is the norm). So essentially they could ask you to work up to 9 hours OT per week.

FWIW - I would not be working it. I would find another employer. Why would anybody who has any self worth work for free. Does your employer provide 25% of their goods or service for free ?

Colonel Claptrap

Unpaid overtime in a salaried position is very common.

Teyla Emmagan

Do you actually know if you'll need to do any overtime yet or is this all theoretical?

No salaried job I ever had paid overtime, if you were very lucky you would get time off in lieu.

tedpan

Colonel Claptrap wrote:

Unpaid overtime in a salaried position is very common.

Especially in sales roles, as there's commission and bonuses. What kind of job is it?

realdanbreen

CinthiaQueiroz wrote: »

Hello guys,

I've just started working in a new position this week and found out yesterday that they don't pay for overtime.
Thi thing is that during the interview I was asked if I was willing to do overtime because the position would require that but it was never mentioned that this would be an unpaid overtime.
I got my contract on the second day of training and I signed it fast because I was working. I saw there was nothing written about overtime but my previous position also didn't have anything written and the overtime was payed.

So, am I forced to do overtime or can I refuse it? And how many hours can they ask me to do?

On my contract they cleverly wrote that my minimum working hours is 39 per week but salary says xxx gross per year.

I am thinking about going to the HR to complain but I am not sure if I can do that.

Thanks

What line of work are you in?

Ann22

Colonel Claptrap wrote:

Unpaid overtime in a salaried position is very common.

My husband has to do it too. He has a salary. On busy year quarters, especially, he literally can't keep up with the workload and the pressure sticking to a 39hr wk. They could easily hire another part time employee to help at busy times and they would both still be hard at it to get out at 5.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

This post has been deleted.

Peregrinus

In salaried or professional positions, unpaid overtime is common, even the norm. Apart from quite menial jobs that I had as a student, I don't think I've ever had a job that paid overtime.

Whether it's reasonable to expect unpaid overime in the OP's position depends largely on what the position is, and what the norms for positions like that are.

myshirt

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

shaunr68

I'd be looking for another job, and in the meantime deliberately unproductive during any "compulsory, unpaid" overtime.

Being salaried coming with an expectation of compulsory, unpaid overtime is nonsense. I was salaried all my working life but every hour of overtime I ever did was paid at a calculated hourly rate. It isn't difficult to work out based on your salary and contracted hours. Overtime was often expected, almost required and frowned upon if you didn't do overtime, but never compulsory. One guy I worked with had a disabled son and shared caring responsibilities with his wife, who worked part time as they struggled to make ends meet - basically every hour that he wasn't working, she was! Their working hours never overlapped because of their son's needs, try telling that fella he had to do overtime!

It should bloody well be illegal. People have families and lives outside of work. Employers should be upfront and reasonable about overtime. It also shows how important it is to read your contract of employment.

Good luck finding another job with a decent employer and then take every opportunity to slate your former employers for the exploitative slavemasters they are!

davo10

shaunr68 wrote: »

I'd be looking for another job, and in the meantime deliberately unproductive during any "compulsory, unpaid" overtime.

Being salaried coming with an expectation of compulsory, unpaid overtime is nonsense. I was salaried all my working life but every hour of overtime I ever did was paid at a calculated hourly rate. It isn't difficult to work out based on your salary and contracted hours. Overtime was often expected, almost required and frowned upon if you didn't do overtime, but never compulsory. One guy I worked with had a disabled son and shared caring responsibilities with his wife, who worked part time as they struggled to make ends meet - basically every hour that he wasn't working, she was! Their working hours never overlapped because of their son's needs, try telling that fella he had to do overtime!

It should bloody well be illegal. People have families and lives outside of work. Employers should be upfront and reasonable about overtime. It also shows how important it is to read your contract of employment.

Good luck finding another job with a decent employer and then take every opportunity to slate your former employers for the exploitative slavemasters they are!

And don't forget to mention at every interview that you absolutely refuse point blank to do any unpaid overtime of any type. The employer will appreciate your honesty and I'm certain you will get the job.

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

Do you not see anything wrong with staying at your desk for 11/12 hour days along with every second saturday? Jesus that would drive me insane.

The J Stands for Jay

Could everyone who works unpaid overtime say what kind of role and industry they work in? I've never had a role that entailed unpaid overtime.

heroics

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

I don't agree with this at all. I value my time. It is not a civil service mentality.

My contract says a 37.5 hour week. If they want me to work more they pay more its that simple. I am not here to work longer hours for free so my employer can not hire the required number of staff.

For example if there were 10 employees in a dept and all were expected to work 5 hours OT a week most weeks that is basically saving the employer the cost of hiring another employee.

I have to say it depends on the industry a lot too from what I have seen. I am IT and get a salary + benefits but also get OT for any hours over my contract.
That being said if it was only an hour here an there I would not put in for it but sat/sun or if it was becoming regular then I definitely put the hours in and it is never questioned.

OP if it was an hour or 2 here and there I would just accept it however if it was an hour every day then no chance would I accept that.

Peregrinus

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare wrote: »

Do you not see anything wrong with staying at your desk for 11/12 hour days along with every second saturday? Jesus that would drive me insane.

That's very wrong. But the fact that it's unpaid is not what's wrong. It would still be wrong even if the overtime were paid. That's a business that's either very badly managed, or very badly understaffed, or both.

ABEasy

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

I don't know if you're being serious or not, if you are I feel sorry for you.

Colonel Claptrap

shaunr68 wrote: »

Good luck finding another job with a decent employer and then take every opportunity to slate your former employers for the exploitative slavemasters they are!

Would you look at that. Paul Murphy does get up early in the morning.

This mindset belongs in the dark ages.

ec18

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

This mentality is what needs to die out.....That's a ridiculous lifestyle, what we need to do is get rid of the corporations are god, American way of working

myshirt

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

Seriously, more fool you. The employers struck gold with these minions

c6ysaphjvqw41k

This post has been deleted.

Tzardine

Amira Mushy Suit wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Its not really unpaid overtime then is it ?

ELM327

heroics wrote: »

I am IT and get a salary + benefits but also get OT for any hours over my contract.
t.

Same here

c6ysaphjvqw41k

This post has been deleted.

shaunr68

Amira Mushy Suit wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

As long as there is an expectation, even an unwritten agreement that you get something extra in exchange for your additional efforts over and above your contracted hours, and both parties are happy with these arrangements, then fair enough. I wouldn't see it as unpaid overtime either, as you are being rewarded. But that wasn't the arrangement being imposed by the OP's new employer, which sounds like an entirely one-sided, exploitative arrangement.

irelandrover

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

THis is just ridiculous.

I agree that sometimes overtime is required to finish the work and that most salary positions tha means unpaid overtime.

But that also works the other way. If you finish your work in 35 hours then you work 35 hours.

Tzardine

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

Absolute rubbish. I work in a high skilled job, on a salary and I get an overtime rate. My boss, who has a Phd also gets an overtime rate or TOIL for any extra hours.

If people accept unpaid overtime then more fool them. I am not talking about counting the clock and an hour every now and then, but regular, scheduled, expected overtime for free ? No chance.

I dont care what the "norm" is. It might be the norm for you. But it wont become the norm for me.

ellobee

Tzardine wrote: »

You can refuse but remember that you can be terminated quite easily in your first year. They obviously expect you to work it as they mentioned it in the interview. You could go to complain to HR but in all honestly you would probably be placing a mark over your head.

48 hours per week averaged out over 4 months is the max you can work (different for some industries but this is the norm). So essentially they could ask you to work up to 9 hours OT per week.

FWIW - I would not be working it. I would find another employer. Why would anybody who has any self worth work for free. Does your employer provide 25% of their goods or service for free ?

I wouldn't necessary agree that the op was working for free when doing overtime, op mentioned that he was on a salary and not an hourly rate, this salary could have been calculated taking into account a certain amount of overtime, a lot of people on salaries work extra hours when times are busy and dont get any extra pay, so if its just a case of doing extra hours when times are busy then I would say just do it, because you only started the job you are probably on probation so you dont have a lot of choice, if you start complaining you could find that when your probation is up you might be told that your services are no longer required.

Peregrinus

McGaggs wrote: »

Could everyone who works unpaid overtime say what kind of role and industry they work in? I've never had a role that entailed unpaid overtime.

I'm a lawyer, currently in government service. I don't get paid overtime, and I didn't when I worked in the private sector either. Clerical and support staff do get overtime, but the professionals don't.

ellobee

I can only speak of my experience in the private sector, but any job which pays a decent salary say 60k upwards, you are expected to get the job done whatever it takes and if that means working extra hours so be it.

Gravelly

I've worked in salaried positions for years and have never been paid overtime - the salary should reflect this fact. If a project or deal needs to get done, it's up to me to get it done, that's the nature of being in a salaried position. I travel a fair bit and most of the time I wouldn't even know how to calculate what overtime I have done. If I fly back from somewhere in the middle of the night, I simply won't go into work the next day, so it's swings and roundabouts anyway. Like many in my line of work, I know that the value I add to the company will be reflected in what I get paid.

If I was a waged 39 hour week man, I'd be looking for overtime alright.