Can I refuse to do overtime?

CinthiaQueiroz

Hello guys,

I've just started working in a new position this week and found out yesterday that they don't pay for overtime.
Thi thing is that during the interview I was asked if I was willing to do overtime because the position would require that but it was never mentioned that this would be an unpaid overtime.
I got my contract on the second day of training and I signed it fast because I was working. I saw there was nothing written about overtime but my previous position also didn't have anything written and the overtime was payed.

So, am I forced to do overtime or can I refuse it? And how many hours can they ask me to do?

On my contract they cleverly wrote that my minimum working hours is 39 per week but salary says xxx gross per year.

I am thinking about going to the HR to complain but I am not sure if I can do that.

Thanks

Tzardine

You can refuse but remember that you can be terminated quite easily in your first year. They obviously expect you to work it as they mentioned it in the interview. You could go to complain to HR but in all honestly you would probably be placing a mark over your head.

48 hours per week averaged out over 4 months is the max you can work (different for some industries but this is the norm). So essentially they could ask you to work up to 9 hours OT per week.

FWIW - I would not be working it. I would find another employer. Why would anybody who has any self worth work for free. Does your employer provide 25% of their goods or service for free ?

Colonel Claptrap

Unpaid overtime in a salaried position is very common.

Teyla Emmagan

Do you actually know if you'll need to do any overtime yet or is this all theoretical?

No salaried job I ever had paid overtime, if you were very lucky you would get time off in lieu.

tedpan

Colonel Claptrap wrote:

Unpaid overtime in a salaried position is very common.

Especially in sales roles, as there's commission and bonuses. What kind of job is it?

realdanbreen

CinthiaQueiroz wrote: »

Hello guys,

I've just started working in a new position this week and found out yesterday that they don't pay for overtime.
Thi thing is that during the interview I was asked if I was willing to do overtime because the position would require that but it was never mentioned that this would be an unpaid overtime.
I got my contract on the second day of training and I signed it fast because I was working. I saw there was nothing written about overtime but my previous position also didn't have anything written and the overtime was payed.

So, am I forced to do overtime or can I refuse it? And how many hours can they ask me to do?

On my contract they cleverly wrote that my minimum working hours is 39 per week but salary says xxx gross per year.

I am thinking about going to the HR to complain but I am not sure if I can do that.

Thanks

What line of work are you in?

Ann22

Colonel Claptrap wrote:

Unpaid overtime in a salaried position is very common.

My husband has to do it too. He has a salary. On busy year quarters, especially, he literally can't keep up with the workload and the pressure sticking to a 39hr wk. They could easily hire another part time employee to help at busy times and they would both still be hard at it to get out at 5.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

This post has been deleted.

Peregrinus

In salaried or professional positions, unpaid overtime is common, even the norm. Apart from quite menial jobs that I had as a student, I don't think I've ever had a job that paid overtime.

Whether it's reasonable to expect unpaid overime in the OP's position depends largely on what the position is, and what the norms for positions like that are.

myshirt

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

shaunr68

I'd be looking for another job, and in the meantime deliberately unproductive during any "compulsory, unpaid" overtime.

Being salaried coming with an expectation of compulsory, unpaid overtime is nonsense. I was salaried all my working life but every hour of overtime I ever did was paid at a calculated hourly rate. It isn't difficult to work out based on your salary and contracted hours. Overtime was often expected, almost required and frowned upon if you didn't do overtime, but never compulsory. One guy I worked with had a disabled son and shared caring responsibilities with his wife, who worked part time as they struggled to make ends meet - basically every hour that he wasn't working, she was! Their working hours never overlapped because of their son's needs, try telling that fella he had to do overtime!

It should bloody well be illegal. People have families and lives outside of work. Employers should be upfront and reasonable about overtime. It also shows how important it is to read your contract of employment.

Good luck finding another job with a decent employer and then take every opportunity to slate your former employers for the exploitative slavemasters they are!

davo10

shaunr68 wrote: »

I'd be looking for another job, and in the meantime deliberately unproductive during any "compulsory, unpaid" overtime.

Being salaried coming with an expectation of compulsory, unpaid overtime is nonsense. I was salaried all my working life but every hour of overtime I ever did was paid at a calculated hourly rate. It isn't difficult to work out based on your salary and contracted hours. Overtime was often expected, almost required and frowned upon if you didn't do overtime, but never compulsory. One guy I worked with had a disabled son and shared caring responsibilities with his wife, who worked part time as they struggled to make ends meet - basically every hour that he wasn't working, she was! Their working hours never overlapped because of their son's needs, try telling that fella he had to do overtime!

It should bloody well be illegal. People have families and lives outside of work. Employers should be upfront and reasonable about overtime. It also shows how important it is to read your contract of employment.

Good luck finding another job with a decent employer and then take every opportunity to slate your former employers for the exploitative slavemasters they are!

And don't forget to mention at every interview that you absolutely refuse point blank to do any unpaid overtime of any type. The employer will appreciate your honesty and I'm certain you will get the job.

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

Do you not see anything wrong with staying at your desk for 11/12 hour days along with every second saturday? Jesus that would drive me insane.

The J Stands for Jay

Could everyone who works unpaid overtime say what kind of role and industry they work in? I've never had a role that entailed unpaid overtime.

heroics

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

I don't agree with this at all. I value my time. It is not a civil service mentality.

My contract says a 37.5 hour week. If they want me to work more they pay more its that simple. I am not here to work longer hours for free so my employer can not hire the required number of staff.

For example if there were 10 employees in a dept and all were expected to work 5 hours OT a week most weeks that is basically saving the employer the cost of hiring another employee.

I have to say it depends on the industry a lot too from what I have seen. I am IT and get a salary + benefits but also get OT for any hours over my contract.
That being said if it was only an hour here an there I would not put in for it but sat/sun or if it was becoming regular then I definitely put the hours in and it is never questioned.

OP if it was an hour or 2 here and there I would just accept it however if it was an hour every day then no chance would I accept that.

Peregrinus

Radiant Cool Crazy Nightmare wrote: »

Do you not see anything wrong with staying at your desk for 11/12 hour days along with every second saturday? Jesus that would drive me insane.

That's very wrong. But the fact that it's unpaid is not what's wrong. It would still be wrong even if the overtime were paid. That's a business that's either very badly managed, or very badly understaffed, or both.

ABEasy

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

I don't know if you're being serious or not, if you are I feel sorry for you.

Colonel Claptrap

shaunr68 wrote: »

Good luck finding another job with a decent employer and then take every opportunity to slate your former employers for the exploitative slavemasters they are!

Would you look at that. Paul Murphy does get up early in the morning.

This mindset belongs in the dark ages.

ec18

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

This mentality is what needs to die out.....That's a ridiculous lifestyle, what we need to do is get rid of the corporations are god, American way of working

myshirt

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

Seriously, more fool you. The employers struck gold with these minions

c6ysaphjvqw41k

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Tzardine

Amira Mushy Suit wrote: »

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Its not really unpaid overtime then is it ?

ELM327

heroics wrote: »

I am IT and get a salary + benefits but also get OT for any hours over my contract.
t.

Same here

c6ysaphjvqw41k

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shaunr68

Amira Mushy Suit wrote: »

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As long as there is an expectation, even an unwritten agreement that you get something extra in exchange for your additional efforts over and above your contracted hours, and both parties are happy with these arrangements, then fair enough. I wouldn't see it as unpaid overtime either, as you are being rewarded. But that wasn't the arrangement being imposed by the OP's new employer, which sounds like an entirely one-sided, exploitative arrangement.

irelandrover

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

THis is just ridiculous.

I agree that sometimes overtime is required to finish the work and that most salary positions tha means unpaid overtime.

But that also works the other way. If you finish your work in 35 hours then you work 35 hours.

Tzardine

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

Absolute rubbish. I work in a high skilled job, on a salary and I get an overtime rate. My boss, who has a Phd also gets an overtime rate or TOIL for any extra hours.

If people accept unpaid overtime then more fool them. I am not talking about counting the clock and an hour every now and then, but regular, scheduled, expected overtime for free ? No chance.

I dont care what the "norm" is. It might be the norm for you. But it wont become the norm for me.

ellobee

Tzardine wrote: »

You can refuse but remember that you can be terminated quite easily in your first year. They obviously expect you to work it as they mentioned it in the interview. You could go to complain to HR but in all honestly you would probably be placing a mark over your head.

48 hours per week averaged out over 4 months is the max you can work (different for some industries but this is the norm). So essentially they could ask you to work up to 9 hours OT per week.

FWIW - I would not be working it. I would find another employer. Why would anybody who has any self worth work for free. Does your employer provide 25% of their goods or service for free ?

I wouldn't necessary agree that the op was working for free when doing overtime, op mentioned that he was on a salary and not an hourly rate, this salary could have been calculated taking into account a certain amount of overtime, a lot of people on salaries work extra hours when times are busy and dont get any extra pay, so if its just a case of doing extra hours when times are busy then I would say just do it, because you only started the job you are probably on probation so you dont have a lot of choice, if you start complaining you could find that when your probation is up you might be told that your services are no longer required.

Peregrinus

McGaggs wrote: »

Could everyone who works unpaid overtime say what kind of role and industry they work in? I've never had a role that entailed unpaid overtime.

I'm a lawyer, currently in government service. I don't get paid overtime, and I didn't when I worked in the private sector either. Clerical and support staff do get overtime, but the professionals don't.

ellobee

I can only speak of my experience in the private sector, but any job which pays a decent salary say 60k upwards, you are expected to get the job done whatever it takes and if that means working extra hours so be it.

Gravelly

I've worked in salaried positions for years and have never been paid overtime - the salary should reflect this fact. If a project or deal needs to get done, it's up to me to get it done, that's the nature of being in a salaried position. I travel a fair bit and most of the time I wouldn't even know how to calculate what overtime I have done. If I fly back from somewhere in the middle of the night, I simply won't go into work the next day, so it's swings and roundabouts anyway. Like many in my line of work, I know that the value I add to the company will be reflected in what I get paid.

If I was a waged 39 hour week man, I'd be looking for overtime alright.

Gone Drinking

This really depends on your position and type of work I guess but for a lot of professional or salary positions, its a necessary evil..

All my jobs have been salary and the only time I got paid overtime was when I would have to do on call work. I'm not always doing unpaid overtime, but I will when things need to get finished, or someone is waiting on me for something. Or just to get my job done well.

What about taking on projects or work that might fall slightly outside your job scope, in the hope of progressing yourself further in the company? How can you do that without working a bit of unpaid overtime? How does anyone get further up in their profession not doing that.. I see a lot of lads in my work who have the "I'm here from 9-5" mindset and they're still doing the same crap they started doing 5 years previous where as others have moved into better paid positions up the ladder.

I'd also like to know how those who don't believe in unpaid overtime would feel if they were waiting on a service or product, but didn't get it because the person helping them downed tools at 5pm on the dot because they don't get paid overtime.

Peregrinus

ellobee wrote: »

I can only speak of my experience in the private sector, but any job which pays a decent salary say 60k upwards, you are expected to get the job done whatever it takes and if that means working extra hours so be it.

Basically, yes. You're paid a professional salary to do a professional job. If you can't routinely do the job while working reasonable hours something is wrong, but it's not that you're not being paid enough.

Gravelly

On a side note, if we're looking to move someone up to management, we will usually give them a project to work on that would test them a bit. This might involve working longer than they're used to, and with more responsibility. It would be a red flag straight away if their first concern was overtime. Not saying this is the case with you, but an employee whose chief concern is overtime is probably never going to be management material - and that's fine, lots of people would rather not have that stress and responsibility anyway.

theteal

No paid overtime for us, not that we'd do a whole lot. We do get time in lieu for any significant stints.

ArnieSilvia

OP, check the standards for your industry, it might be the way everywhere.

I moved to technical sales briefly and I was very clear about the work life balance at the interview.

The reality was that I was doing 12 hrs every day. I tried to talk with boss about it but he put all blame on me. I left shortly and went back to my previous industry.

An hour here and there is not a problem for me but when it became a pattern I started dividing salary into hours and it was worth less than factory work I used to do.

If you work in a professional job for an hourly rate below factory worker INCLUDING O/T at 1.5 time or double time (as applicable) then you're not a professional, you are a working class:pac:

I know that there's a bigger picture, career etc but it comes at the price (stress/travel/work life balance) as I found out.

Ultimately, I found that the type of work is not as much important as how much does it pay PER HOUR. Work is work. Even best career is work. If it doesn't pay more than easier jobs then it's not worth it.

witchgirl26

I'm in internal audit and for my whole career (once I qualified) overtime was unpaid no official time in lieu. I've been on a salary as opposed to a per hour rate that whole time. Now the difference is that the overtime I do is generally few and far between and usually just to get something across the line. There could be a few weeks where I'll be doing an hour or 2 extra every night but then months would go by where I'm out the door as usual. I actually don't know any of my friends who get paid overtime who are in professional roles.

I would say however that it all depends on the attitude towards overtime. I'm not willing to spend extra time at my desk to "be seen" to put in the hours. I'll do it if needed but not as a standard all the time thing. Likewise where I am now (& my previous role actually) there was a bit of give and take. If I needed to finish early some day for an appointment & my boss knows I've put in extra time to get something sorted before, he's more likely to be accommodating.

OP before freaking out and refusing overtime maybe try to get a sense of how often it is/how long normally. It could be that it's just every so often for a couple of hours.

ellobee

so my advice is if you want to keep the job then suck it up while you are on probation, once your probation period is up and you are permanent then as ArnieSilvia said calculate the hours you regularly do against your salary and see what actual hourly rate you are being paid, and if its too low then complain or look for another job.

Tell me how

shaunr68 wrote:

It should bloody well be illegal. People have families and lives outside of work. Employers should be upfront and reasonable about overtime. It also shows how important it is to read your contract of employment.

I agree with above outside of the first sentence.

In a salaried position you may be more likely to have flexible start finish times and sometimes might do less than 40hrs/week. Not saying overtime is equal to time in lieu but it is often there to some degree.

With respect to "people have lives and family outside of work" you are correct but so often people use this as an excuse for not working back for ten minutes yet they had no problem sending half an hour during work time doing lives/family type things. Where's the quid pro quo?

Also, in some places where salaried positions operate, the individual has a large degree of autonomy. If it was paid overtime you'd be guaranteed that most people would be doing 4 hrs per week but productivity would not increase by 10%.

Another one, salaried roles are often for jobs where the volume of work required is less obvious than for hourly duties. This would make it difficult for the business if it had to have staff in reserve to cover such demands. Existing staff doing overtime is everyone trying to help run an efficient business.

People may point to businesses where staff are exploited and expected to do an excessive amount all the time but I think these are outliers as opposed to everyone's experience. This is outside of industries where a constant, large amount of unpaid overtime is well known as a feature of the job. I'm thinking of hospital Dr's and big 4 junior accountants here for example.

In this case, I think the OP should walk rather than be pushed should they refuse to do it, given they signed a contract without ensuring that they were comfortable with it.

Jimbob1977

It's really a clash of cultures....

The German/French/Civil Service model dictates that you complete your working hours as scheduled. Outside of standard working hours, your time is personal and work should not impinge on it. There is an argument that it's too rigid and inflexible in the modern world.

The American/British model treats overtime as necessary. People almost wear it as a 'badge of honour'. Look at me! I did 70 hours last week. I didn't see my wife or kids. American multinationals tend to reward people with excellent salaries, but they will extract their pound of flesh. The culture is normally superficial too.

I had a recruitment agent on the phone during the week. Standard working hours in the prospective company were 9 to 5.30, but he admitted that most people stayed until 7pm

It depends on your profession.

Work for a multinational - expect unpaid overtime.

Work in retail - You should expect to receive overtime payments

ionapaul

I'm also one of those people who work in an industry where overtime is somewhat common (if necessary, rather than all the time or it being expected) and no compensation is offered or sought, it's just a standard thing. Have worked in various salaried positions for over 15 years and I don't think overtime was something available in any of the previous places, at least not to salaried employees on more than the 'average wage' level.

Gravelly

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

It's really a clash of cultures....

The German/French/Civil Service model dictates that you complete your working hours as scheduled. Outside of standard working hours, your time is personal and work should not impinge on it. There is an argument that it's too rigid and inflexible in the modern world.

The American/British model treats overtime as necessary. People almost wear it as a 'badge of honour'. Look at me! I did 70 hours last week. I didn't see my wife or kids. American multinationals tend to reward people with excellent salaries, but they will extract their pound of flesh. The culture is normally superficial too.

I had a recruitment agent on the phone during the week. Standard working hours in the prospective company were 9 to 5.30, but he admitted that most people stayed until 7pm

It depends on your profession.

Work for a multinational - expect unpaid overtime.

Work in retail - You should expect overtime

This! I do a fair bit of work with both Germans and Americans - the difference is stark - The Germans do the exact hours they're meant to, and no more - I've never received a call or an email outside of office hours from any or our German clients. However, when they are in the office, they work hard.
Americans, by contrast, work ridiculous hours - they seem to go out of their way to organise calls or meetings for an hour or two after their normal finishing time (the amount of 8pm meetings I have in the states is weird). However, I find their productivity to be very low - it typically takes them far longer to get anything done than any European office. They also practically beg you to bring any success they have to their immediate superiors attention.

Hector Savage

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Unpaid overtime in a salaried position is very common.

And the casual acceptance of this is the reason they get away with it.

shaunr68

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

This mindset belongs in the dark ages.

What belongs in the dark ages is the Dickensian mentality that you must accept any unreasonable conditions imposed by your employer because the alternative is the workhouse.

Gravelly

shaunr68 wrote: »

What belongs in the dark ages is the Dickensian mentality that you must accept any unreasonable conditions imposed by your employer because the alternative is the workhouse.

Did someone suggest this? Must have missed that post.

myshirt

myshirt wrote: »

.................

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age...............

That's a 45/50 hour week Mon to Fri and working every second Saturday too, unless it's a profession where you're on €100k/annum after 4 or 5 years it's a fairly grim existence unless you are exaggerating.

Even if well compensated salary wise it's a grim enough life, far too much time at work.

The J Stands for Jay

Amira Mushy Suit wrote: »

Marketing in the Industrial Automation Industry. I only do unpaid O/T a handful of times a year though, usually for a large project or event. Never on the regular. I usually get compensated by extra days holidays, an extra bonus at the end of the year on top of my normal bonus or vouchers.

Edit: My husband also works in IT and never gets paid directly for O/T, but gets extra days holidays also. Their very generous with it though, if he does 4 hours O/T they usually give him a full day without him asking.

Both these examples seem reasonable. It's the stereotypical accountant/solicitor firm where people barely get 8 hours a night out of the office, but it's 'expected' and no-one gets any recognition or reward for it that I find unfathomable. I've said in an interview on the past that I was no longer interested b in the position when they described their culture as being like this.

Squatman

myshirt wrote: »

We still have this per hour mentality which stems from the public service. A per hour rate is suitable for a less developed economy, less complex work, unskilled, minimum wage, or manufacturing led for example. There used to also be a piece rate if you recall, where you would get paid per unit you produced.

The per hour rate is not at all suitable now. Op you should work a minimum of 39 hours excluding breaks, but overall I would expect you to average out at anything from 42 to 48.

In my profession, it is not uncommon for people to work every second Saturday unpaid, and a few odd half day Sundays. Other than that, normal hours are 8.00 or 8.30ish to 7 or 8 that night with two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute break, usually lunch al desco. Get rid of this civil service mentality, it is for a different age.

i wouldnt want to work for or with you!

The J Stands for Jay

ellobee wrote: »

I can only speak of my experience in the private sector, but any job which pays a decent salary say 60k upwards, you are expected to get the job done whatever it takes and if that means working extra hours so be it.

I would expect (and I've seen it) that in these positions you would work less hours in a week if the job is being done in less time.

McGaggs

McGaggs wrote: »

........... It's the stereotypical accountant/solicitor firm where people barely get 8 his a night out of the office, but it's 'expected' and no-one gets any recognition or reward for it that I find unfathomable...............

I dunno about the solicitor firms but the sheer number of accountants being churned out every year surely can't be doing much to prevent the loads of hours culture.

Accountants are like civil engineers, loads and loads of them and most of the jobs are sh1t enough.

The J Stands for Jay

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I'd also like to know how those who don't believe in unpaid overtime would feel if they were waiting on a service or product, but didn't get it because the person helping them downed tools at 5pm on the dot because they don't get paid overtime.

I'd be annoyed at the people in charge who didn't have enough staff to complete the task in time.