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Junker wants all EU countries to be in Eurozone and Schengen

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  • 13-09-2017 10:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭


    "President Jean-Claude Juncker wants only small reforms of the European Union, but closer cooperation. For example, all EU countries are to accept the euro and join the Schengen zone without border controls, as EU diplomats said before Juncker's principle speech in the European parliament on Wednesday. In addition, the EU should continue to grow: by 2025 it could have around 30 members." NZZ.ch

    The majority of people travelling to/from Ireland are travelling to/from countries other than GB. The majority are being inconvenienced and treated as foreigners in many EU countries waiting for passport checking.

    If NI wants an open border it must join the Schengen zone and freight traffic could be controlled by a single administrative document type system (online) and perhaps random checks in frontier areas.

    Being in Schengen would make the country far more attractive as an airline hub for transatlantic and other flights and from a business and private travel perspective.

    https://www.nzz.ch/international/wie-weiter-mit-der-eu-juncker-redet-zur-lage-der-union-ld.1315925


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    I say yes, I'd love to see Ireland in Schengen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    How would it effect our border with the UK?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The guy is in cloud cuckoo land.

    Even the countries that are supposed to be in Schengen have been ignoring it. The EU needs to sort out some kind of effective security for its external borders before getting rid of the internal ones.

    So he wants more countries in it. There's already too many countries in the EU to allow us to continue operating by consensus. Its in danger of losing its democratic foundation.

    The only way Junkers plan could succeed would be if a strong central authority took control, and everybody else was forced to toe the line.
    And I'm guessing he thinks he is just the man for the job.
    Heil Junker ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    recedite wrote: »
    So he wants more countries in it. There's already too many countries in the EU to allow us to continue operating by consensus. Its in danger of losing its democratic foundation.
    The European project has expanded from 6 to 27 without losing its democratic foundations. A few more countries aren't going to break it now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    The European project has expanded from 6 to 27 without losing its democratic foundations. A few more countries aren't going to break it now.


    I will revisit this comment when Turkey joins..


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The only reason we are not in Schengen is because the UK refused to join and we share an open border and consequently have an near identical entry/visa system.

    When the UK leaves the EU, we can join it as the UK will no longer have the same entry/visa regime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    Add Ukraine, Turkey and Georgia. Open all borders. Start a war with Russia. Accept all Migrants. Accept a ton of cash from George soros. Nothing to see here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    recedite wrote: »
    The guy is in cloud cuckoo land.

    Even the countries that are supposed to be in Schengen have been ignoring it. The EU needs to sort out some kind of effective security for its external borders before getting rid of the internal ones.

    So he wants more countries in it. There's already too many countries in the EU to allow us to continue operating by consensus. Its in danger of losing its democratic foundation.

    The only way Junkers plan could succeed would be if a strong central authority took control, and everybody else was forced to toe the line.
    And I'm guessing he thinks he is just the man for the job.
    Heil Junker ;)

    Junckers view is just the commissions vision and it's vision has always been deeper integration and ever closer union. It therefore should not be a surprise that the head of the commission advocates such a view.

    The reality is that in many of the member states, the kind of ideas that he has put forward, politically won't fly. That's ok - but if you don't have a bold vision to start with, you will never make any progress.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    I will revisit this comment when Turkey joins..

    If Turkey joins, it will be because it has implemented some pretty radical reforms.

    Despite how much some people love drinking the right-wing UK press kool-aid, Turkey isn't joining the EU any time soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    Those countries are a long way away from joining the EU. How long has Turkey been a candidate already?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    I will revisit this comment when Turkey joins..

    We'll be all in the cold cold ground before that happens. Turkey is further away than membership than ever


  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    We'll be all in the cold cold ground before that happens. Turkey is further away than membership than ever

    All it takes is a colour revolution to oust Erdogan. Que some folks with shiny EU flags appearing on telly saying we want western democracy. You could even have a women like Nuland giving out bread rolls to the people like she did in Ukraine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The European project has expanded from 6 to 27 without losing its democratic foundations. A few more countries aren't going to break it now.
    Depends on your definition of "democratic foundations". It has already gone from making decisions "by consensus of all" to making them by "majority rule".


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Impetus wrote: »
    "President Jean-Claude Juncker wants only small reforms of the European Union, but closer cooperation. For example, all EU countries are to accept the euro and join the Schengen zone without border controls, as EU diplomats said before Juncker's principle speech in the European parliament on Wednesday. In addition, the EU should continue to grow: by 2025 it could have around 30 members."

    https://www.nzz.ch/international/wie-weiter-mit-der-eu-juncker-redet-zur-lage-der-union-ld.1315925

    What I understood what he said today is that it was highly unlikely that Turkey will join the EU.

    As well as that, the condition exists already that any country that joins the EU since Maastricht (1992) has to join the Euro. Denmark & UK had an out option.

    As for Schengen - its just Bulgaria & Romania he wants brought into it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    recedite wrote: »
    Depends on your definition of "democratic foundations". It has already gone from making decisions "by consensus of all" to making them by "majority rule".

    Majority rule is still democratic. And there are still plenty of items that require consensus by all still which is why Turkey will never join the EU. And to agree to majority rule would require consensus by all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,482 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    jacksie66 wrote: »
    So he wants a United States of Europe. With Germany and France ruling the roost..

    Mod note:

    Serious posts only please. If you believe that this is an attempt at a move towards the ever closer union rather than being mooted on its own merits, please set out why you think so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Couple of things:

    i) Universal flat-rate Corporation Tax is one of his ambitions, surely this will make certain remote or island locations less attractive than is currently the case.

    ii) The 'Barcelona Declaration'... is multilateral cooperation with the MNC's countries of the Mediterranean basin. This seeks to have closer ties with countries such as Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, the Syria, Tunisia and Turkey. Perhaps this will eventually lead to an even more expanded European super state encompassing the entire Mediterranean.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Subzero3 wrote: »
    All it takes is a colour revolution to oust Erdogan. Que some folks with shiny EU flags appearing on telly saying we want western democracy. You could even have a women like Nuland giving out bread rolls to the people like she did in Ukraine.

    Everyone has a veto. Cyprus aren't going to approve anytime soon


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    I'm a bit confused as to how this is being taken as Turkey joining where he pointed out that Turkey cannot join under its current set-up in the same speech.


    Also not sure why the freaking out given, as pointed out above, every country has a veto.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Deleted post

    Ireland stopped the Nice & Lisbon treaties, Wallonia stopped CETA - so, yes they would.

    If Turkey re-institute the death penalty, as they talking about doing at the minute, they will be ineligible to join the EU anyway, so the point will be moot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    Ireland stopped the Nice & Lisbon treaties, Wallonia stopped CETA - so, yes they would.

    If Turkey re-institute the death penalty, as they talking about doing at the minute, they will be ineligible to join the EU anyway, so the point will be moot.

    Did they? Pretty sure we got asked to the same question twice until we gave them the right answer


  • Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    So with the majority vote, is it one country - one vote. Or the larger the population the more votes a country gets?
    With majority vote, surely places like Cyprus will no longer be able to block anything?
    Allowing the countries that border Russia to join would really piss Putin off, not sure the benefits of the extra members would be worth the worsening relations with Russia.
    Also isn't one of the commissions plans to have a European Army? How would a neutral Ireland sit with this? At the moment they can veto, but with a more majority vote based system would they not just be made to do so if they lose the vote?


  • Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Did they? Pretty sure we got asked to the same question twice until we gave them the right answer

    For the liberal left this is how democracy works. If they don't agree with the outcome, the vote should be taken again until they do. Look at the protests against the Brexit referendum. People protested and marched through the streets in an atrempt to overthrow it and have it taken again as it wasn't 'progressive' enough for them. Same with Trump, he was democratically elected by the U.S.A. voting system. There were protests even in Dublin, to overthrow the result of the U.S. electionand take it again. The self entitlement of the lefties is mind blowing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30 HugoRune


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    If Turkey joins, it will be because it has implemented some pretty radical reforms.

    Despite how much some people love drinking the right-wing UK press kool-aid, Turkey isn't joining the EU any time soon.

    Indeed. The main cheerleader for Turkey joining the EU has voted to leave the EU. Now that the UK won't be part of the EU, Turkey doesn't really have anyone within the EU pushing for their inclusion.

    Although for some reason the UK foreign secretary still seems to be very keen on Turkey joining the union that he led a campaign to leave. This is just weird:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/boris-johnson-uk-support-turkey-ankara-bid-to-join-eu-despite-brexit-washing-machine-a7332651.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,207 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    So with the majority vote, is it one country - one vote. Or the larger the population the more votes a country gets?
    With majority vote, surely places like Cyprus will no longer be able to block anything?
    It's qualified majority. To get a decision, you need the assent of 55% of the member states representing 65% of the population. This gives (in effect) disproportionate weight to member states with smaller populations.

    Cyprus can't block a qualified majority. But, then, neither can Germany. No single member state can block a qualified majority.

    On the other hand, not all subjects are decided by qualified majority; a range of subjects require decisions to be unanimous, and any member state can block a unanimous decision.

    The admission of new member states requires unanimity so, yes, Cyprus could block the admission of Turkey.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    It's qualified majority. To get a decision, you need the assent of 55% of the member states representing 65% of the population. This gives (in effect) disproportionate weight to member states with smaller populations.
    The "65% of the population" clause was introduced to give extra clout to countries with large populations.
    Peregrinus wrote: »
    On the other hand, not all subjects are decided by qualified majority; a range of subjects require decisions to be unanimous, and any member state can block a unanimous decision.
    But the list of decisions requiring consensus is shrinking fast, more or less in inverse proportion to the number of EU member states.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Did they? Pretty sure we got asked to the same question twice until we gave them the right answer

    No - when they were rejected, they had to change the treaties to address Ireland's concerns.

    In each case we were asked to vote on the new, amended treaty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    So with the majority vote, is it one country - one vote. Or the larger the population the more votes a country gets?
    With majority vote, surely places like Cyprus will no longer be able to block anything?
    Allowing the countries that border Russia to join would really piss Putin off, not sure the benefits of the extra members would be worth the worsening relations with Russia.
    Also isn't one of the commissions plans to have a European Army? How would a neutral Ireland sit with this? At the moment they can veto, but with a more majority vote based system would they not just be made to do so if they lose the vote?

    which countries do you mean exactly?

    There's already several countries in the EU bordering Russia afaik, the baltics, Finland and Poland (via Kaliningrad).


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    In each case we were asked to vote on the new, amended treaty.
    Presumably you can tell us what the difference was, then?


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