The difficulty and obtuseness of point and click games

um7y1h83ge06nx

I don't play many point and click games but I really want to like them. Years ago I played Broken Sword 1 and 2 but finished neither.

Recently I played and finished Monkey Island 1 and have started Monkey Island 2 (the Xbox 360 remasters). Grim Fandango and Day of the Tentacle remasters are on my backlog.

Sometimes I find these games can get incredibly obtuse. Figuring out what combination of items that are need to progress can be at times be difficult and not all that intuitive or logical. In places I have used a guide to avoid spending ages trying every combination, but I feel like I'm cheating a little.

What are your opinions on this genre?

Zero-Cool

I love them but I played Grim Fandango remastered lately and felt like it just took the piss

Is the new Broken Sword supposed to be any good?

They were my jam back in the 90's/early 00's though, loved this game so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v41sXqDFkfU

Retr0gamer

They were made for a different time. In the 90's I'd play these obsessively poking around for hours trying as many different combinations as I could to try and get through them. No I'm much less patient as I've less time and way too many games to choose from.

Also if you think the Lucas Arts and Revolution Software games are bad, you should try the Sierra ones. They are cake walks in comparison to the bull**** they pull.

The Specialist

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Also if you think the Lucas Arts and Revolution Software games are bad, you should try the Sierra ones. They are cake walks in comparison to the bull**** they pull.

I'd have to agree with this, 2 spring to mind when you mention Sierra:

Freddy Pharkas - Stop an invasion of snails (I think?) from reaching the town by opening a bottle of beer to pour on the ground. It involves finding an obscure off screen door and interacting with it. Not to mention its impossible to fulfill the "prescriptions" without the manual handy.

Police Quest 3 - Literally 10 mins in to the game, retrieve your gear from your locker (which is locked with a 4 digit code hidden in the manual). Unfortunately for me, I never did find where it was so went to the first call out and died everytime :mad:

As much as they frustrated the living **** out of me when I was younger, I'll always have a nostalgic fondness for these type of games (including Sierra ). I just can't see myself ever playing them again.

P.S: If you can find a copy of the Blade Runner point and click game Westwood did, its well worth checking out.

Retr0gamer

I think people say the death of point and clicks was Gabriel Knight 3. You steal and ID and instead of replacing the photo you have to make yourself look like the guy in the photo. Said guy has a moustache. So you have to put sellotape under a door then find a way to scare a cat to run under the door to collect the hair from the sellotape to make a fake moustache.

Because logic...

I do like how Lucas Arts games never let the player die or worse yet completely miss objects you need to finish the game. Sierra games would do this all the time. Forget something at the start of the game, tough ****. Also we won't tell you you ****ed up so good luck figuring out if it is your fault for not getting a puzzle or just bad game design. At least Revolution games let you continue from the fail state and they were more easter eggs than anything. Still.... **** that Irish goat.

Worse was that Sierra games would actively take the piss out of Lucas Arts games for being too easy.

Kiith

I remember tearing my hair out at Beneath a Steel Sky when i was younger. I loved it, but i just wasn't able to get very far into it. Just so many obscure ways of getting past areas (and it probably wasn't difficult in the grand scheme of things). I remember getting into a dark subway tunnel and could never get past it, and not for lack of trying.

Whenever i did manage to figure something out though, it really did feel great though.

Sephiroth_dude

Only ever played one and that Grim Fandango, even though I enjoyed it, by the end of it my patience was gone and I was glad it was done.

Avatar MIA

The Specialist wrote: »

P.S: If you can find a copy of the Blade Runner point and click game Westwood did, its well worth checking out.

Such a great game. These were my games.

Current 'point and fire' games leave me cold.

I may not have the patience to play these types of games (hours and hours on end) anymore (if they existed), but modern games have no attraction for me. I was left behind :pac:

Skerries

The Specialist wrote: »

P.S: If you can find a copy of the Blade Runner point and click game Westwood did, its well worth checking out.

I had the boxed copy of this but sold it on unfortunately as I then got the DVD version which came bundled with early DVD drives which is just in a bog standard plastic case

Retr0gamer

Kiith wrote: »

I remember tearing my hair out at Beneath a Steel Sky when i was younger. I loved it, but i just wasn't able to get very far into it. Just so many obscure ways of getting past areas (and it probably wasn't difficult in the grand scheme of things). I remember getting into a dark subway tunnel and could never get past it, and not for lack of trying.

Whenever i did manage to figure something out though, it really did feel great though.

I don't remember the exact details of that area but I remember being stuck at it for ages.

This is going to piss you off: It's the final screen before the ending.

Kiith

Retr0gamer wrote: »

This is going to piss you off: It's the final screen before the ending.

What? A for **** sake :P

Thimbleweed Park is great if your into these sort of games. It has the option of an "easy mode" which I highly recommend. I played the first few hours in hard mode before succumbing to its easier little brother. It basically has similar puzzles throughout with the more obtuse ones left out or simplified.

K.O.Kiki

Kiith wrote: »

What? A for **** sake :P

Beneath a Steel Sky has been re-released as freeware & can be found on the SCUMM VM homepage, or on GOG.com.

Zero-Cool

I just saw Sanitarium was ported to mobile in 2015 and you can get it for 4 euro. I hate buying things on my phone but that's very tempting.

super_furry

Give Darkside Detective a go. It's an Irish-made game, short and sweet, funny and has none of the mind-bending goat from Broken Sword style puzzles.

Retr0gamer

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I just saw Sanitarium was ported to mobile in 2015 and you can get it for 4 euro. I hate buying things on my phone but that's very tempting.

PC version is on GoG

Omikron1

+1 for Blade Runner, only replayed it again last week. It's a very, very good game, and a little more straight forward than a lot of adventure games.

One of the earliest games I remember playing was Sam & Max, damn I loved it but I remember getting stuck on bits for weeks on end (no internet for a walkthrough back then). Adventure games used to be my bread and butter games (Broken Sword will always be one of my favourite games), but as Retr0gamer said I just don't have the patience or time to be poking around and trying dozens of combinations anymore. I have loads of adventure games in the catalogue but I always end up going for something else to play these days.

The Specialist

Reading the thread and getting flashbacks to a few classics - The Dig, Teen Agent, Space Quest, Full Throttle.

Ten of Swords

Black Mirror Trilogy is quite good. The first game is quite a bit older than the other 2 so suffers from some of the more irritating aspects of the genre such as pixel hunting and some very unlikely object combinations. The second 2 games are slightly easier and both have a feature where all selectable items and points of interest on the screen can be highlighted.

johnny_ultimate

Samorost 3 is a bit of a masterpiece for anyone looking for a modern version largely devoid of the obtuseness (not totally, but mostly). Extrordinarily good art design and audio-visual storytelling, while rewarding experimentation and figuring out the world's surreal logic. Goes to show there's plenty of life in the point n click form yet.

Did I mention it's probably one of the best visually / stylistically impressive games ever made?

Tom Mann Centuria

I love adventures, text or point and click. That love affair almost ended with a goat in Broken Sword. I don't remember how long it took me to get past it, and I'm sure my brother had to tell me in the end. Haven't played the most recent one (which isn't that recent now I don't think) but apparently there's a cursed goat in that too.

CatInABox

I remember playing through Cruise for a Corpse long ago, thinking it was brilliant. I can even recall how proud I was when I finally managed to beat the impromptu boxing match in a hidden room, only to find out later that I was meant to have stolen a bar of soap at the start, and to use that in the screen before the fight, sending it into the room with the hidden assailant, who would somehow die because I lashed a bar of soap in?????

It was then that I realised that the entire genre was just a load of s***e.

ShiverinEskimo

Can't believe Discworld hasn't been mentioned yet. Some of the most outright bizarre combinations required to get past certain areas. I'd argue it was virtually impossible to complete the game without some form of guide or outside help.

Very funny game, but impossibly obtuse.

Mr E

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Can't believe Discworld hasn't been mentioned yet. Some of the most outright bizarre combinations required to get past certain areas. I'd argue it was virtually impossible to complete the game without some form of guide or outside help.

Very funny game, but impossibly obtuse.

I remember a discworld text adventure where the directions were hubwards, rimwards, turnwise and widdershins (instead of north south east and west). Very confusing.

I'm showing my age now.

MOH

The Specialist wrote: »

Police Quest 3 - Literally 10 mins in to the game, retrieve your gear from your locker (which is locked with a 4 digit code hidden in the manual). Unfortunately for me, I never did find where it was so went to the first call out and died everytime :mad:

Ah, Police Quest.
Question a suspect in jail but forget to put your gun in the locker outside that you didn't even realise you could interact with? You're dead.
Forget to walk around your police car to inspect it every time you take it out of the station? It'll break down, game over.
Remember to inspect it but don't quite walk all the way around it? It'll break down, game over.

Omikron1 wrote: »

+1 for Blade Runner, only replayed it again last week. It's a very, very good game, and a little more straight forward than a lot of adventure games.

I loved Blade Runner. But eventually reached a point where I had to give up when there was absolutely no way to progress no matter what I did. Spent days at it. Years later I read doing stuff in a particular order led to a game-breaking bug that prevented you going any further.

Must go back and try it again sometime.

sKeith

played and completed many of thise mentioned already.

Indiana jones and the holy grail I had to give up at the first test in the cave (in Jordan?). I'd watched the films, and knew i had to kneel, but was never able to get past that test.

Dyr

The Specialist wrote: »

P.S: If you can find a copy of the Blade Runner point and click game Westwood did, its well worth checking out.

I downloaded a copy a few years ago online and installed in on a netbook. Holds up well even now

The longest journey just took the absolute piss with puzzles but I played it through just for the story

um7y1h83ge06nx

I remember having a PC magazine with a review of Blade Runner when it came out. I always wanted to play it. Might add it to the backlog.

Stone Deaf 4evr

The Dig - I remember being very taken with its whole 'The Abyss' vibe, but I got to some puzzle with hexagons and colours and my teenage brain couldn't handle it. Ah, the memories.

The 2 Indiana Jones games were great though.

Avatar MIA

Emerald Ancient Hawk wrote: »

I remember having a PC magazine with a review of Blade Runner when it came out. I always wanted to play it. Might add it to the backlog.

And there are multiple endings if memory serves.

Omikron1

Emerald Ancient Hawk wrote: »

I remember having a PC magazine with a review of Blade Runner when it came out. I always wanted to play it. Might add it to the backlog.

Definitely do! If you're a fan of the movie you should love it!

"Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis" was one of the more enjoyable ones that I remember. Don't remember too many overly stupid puzzles. Good enough story too I think.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/6010/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fate_of_Atlantis/

somebody was making a remake / special edition but Lucasarts shut them down (:

https://kotaku.com/lucasfilm-asks-fate-of-atlantis-remake-to-shut-down-1792869878

and it was looking nice as you can see from the above article.

The Specialist

glasso wrote: »

"Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis" was one of the more enjoyable ones that I remember. Don't remember too many overly stupid puzzles. Good enough story too I think.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/6010/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Fate_of_Atlantis/

somebody was making a remake / special edition but Lucasarts shut them down (:

https://kotaku.com/lucasfilm-asks-fate-of-atlantis-remake-to-shut-down-1792869878

and it was looking nice as you can see from the above article.

Yeah no stupid puzzles apart from that sun dial in the dig site that took about 2 months to figure out

qrx

Hello Neighbor i think would be a modern take on this genre. Lacks a story though, well what ive seen from betas anyway maybe the full release will have something.

Zero-Cool

Retr0gamer wrote: »

PC version is on GoG

Eeewwww PC gaming now if Blade Runner was ported into mobile, I'd be all over it, such a cool game.

Has anyone played the new broken sword?

Speaking of BS, that Irish level and the goat in the original was epic.

johnnyskeleton

I liked the legends of kyrandia. Especially the second one where you had to make up potions to deal with different things. It was very much a "heres a shopping list of items you need" type game as a result but it was good fun.

Retr0gamer

Resonance is a new one which is pretty excellent. the puzzles aren't obtuse either. Highly recommend it.

Monkey Island 2 took me about a year to complete when I was a kid. This was back when it had ... I think ... 2 or 3 difficulty settings, which amped up the complexity of the puzzles. I'm not sure if that was in the remastered versions?

If the OP thinks they're hard now, imagine trying to play them back then, when there was no internet (as such) to rely on for walkthroughs.

sKeith

i dont think i ever got out of the library in discworld.

LLMMLL

I love everything about these games, obtuse puzzles and all.

As Retrogamer mentioned, Resonance is excellent as is Gemini Rue.

I remember as a child being stuck on monkey island 2 and eventually giving up. A coffin salesman gets into a coffin to show.off it's features and we tried numerous times using a hammer and nails to trap him in it. Fast forward 20 years and I used a hammer and nails to trap him. Have no idea what we were doing wrong as kids.

ShiverinEskimo

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Can't believe Discworld hasn't been mentioned yet. Some of the most outright bizarre combinations required to get past certain areas. I'd argue it was virtually impossible to complete the game without some form of guide or outside help.

Very funny game, but impossibly obtuse.

Man.

I'll have to get it when I'm finished work, but I remember the task of getting someone's belt from a portaloo was, perhaps, the most obtuse puzzle ever.

TheZenMonkey

super_furry wrote: »

Give Darkside Detective a go. It's an Irish-made game, short and sweet, funny and has none of the mind-bending goat from Broken Sword style puzzles.

I definitely second this. it's not too difficult and it really rewards clicking on *everything*, if not with clues than with laughs. And the developer happens to be a lovely guy if Twitter interactions are anything to go by.

Anything by Wadjet Eye (Gemini Rue) gets my vote. Primordia is a special favorite.

Spudman_20000

The Specialist wrote: »

Yeah no stupid puzzles apart from that sun dial in the dig site that took about 2 months to figure out

And going around the Atlantis maze, trying to find pieces of the robot to open the door, and figuring out how to arrange said pieces. Oh, and using the theodolite type yoke on to locate the tomb on the island.

Antar Bolaeisk

Mr E wrote: »

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Can't believe Discworld hasn't been mentioned yet. Some of the most outright bizarre combinations required to get past certain areas. I'd argue it was virtually impossible to complete the game without some form of guide or outside help.

Very funny game, but impossibly obtuse.

I remember a discworld text adventure where the directions were hubwards, rimwards, turnwise and widdershins (instead of north south east and west). Very confusing.

I'm showing my age now.

That's because it's a disc 😜

Turtyturd

I used to be a big fan of them growing up. Fond memories of stuff like;

Monkey Island
Indiana Jones
Day of the Tentacle
Grim Fandango
Sam and Max

However I downloaded Monkey Island recently when it was free on GWG and found it to be a chore from the outset. I'd consider myself fairly intelligent and adapt to this kind of thing but from the beginning some puzzles are difficult and seem more about exhausting every option than logically piecing things together. As others said it had me wondering how we got through them as kids without any guides or online help.

Lu Tze

Turtyturd wrote: »

I used to be a big fan of them growing up. Fond memories of stuff like;

Monkey Island
Indiana Jones
Day of the Tentacle
Grim Fandango
Sam and Max

However I downloaded Monkey Island recently when it was free on GWG and found it to be a chore from the outset. I'd consider myself fairly intelligent and adapt to this kind of thing but from the beginning some puzzles are difficult and seem more about exhausting every option than logically piecing things together. As others said it had me wondering how we got through them as kids without any guides or online help.

The imagination and creativity of a child is limitless! They will try things we wouldn't even think of!

Army_of_One

Never had the patience for piont and click tbh. It's one genre I have no interest in so have avoided the resurgence of these type of games.