Situation with Ex

LegacyUser

Would love some advice on this and sorry for length.

Partner and I split up some time ago and we have young kids, all under 9, who live with me primarily and who go to their dad at weekends. We co-parent fine. There would still be a lot of bad blood between us and we will never get on but we ensure that doesn’t translate down into how we parent together.

The kids were very upset about the breakup initially, displaying lots of behaviours one is advised could happen in this situation such as bed wetting, separation anxiety, ticks, ‘bad’ behaviour etc. I would say they only really settled well over a year after we split and are doing as well as I could hope for given the circumstances.

We verbally agreed in mediation directly after the split that we would wait 1 year, until we knew a relationship was serious before introducing new partners and that the other parent would get an opportunity to meet any new partner prior to them meeting the children.
That’s a small bit of background.

My ex has been online dating and at the end of May he met a woman who has a young child. Last month he lied about having to work on a day he was due to have the kids and I subsequently found out that he hadn’t been working and had instead spent the day with her and her child. This woman’s husband left her in April and she was dating my ex by the end of May.

Last weekend my ex told me that himself and this woman are planning to move in together with her child and that he wants to start introducing her to her and her child, firstly by arranging some meetings in neutral territory and then by having her babysit them while he attends an activity that he is a member of, which meet 1 – 2 times per month. He advised that they would be moving in together by the end of October, so next month and that when my children go to stay with him each weekend from then they will be living with her and her child.

I am absolutely shocked, worried and upset that my ex thinks this is appropriate. My opinion is that it is highly irresponsible and selfish to bring my children anywhere around this situation, given they have known each other for less than 6 months. It is one thing to introduce new partners, although I still think less than 6 months is too soon, but a whole other thing to have my children live with and be babysat by someone he has known for this period of time. He disagrees that you can’t know someone well enough after 4/5 months to know if this is a serious relationship or to really, fully know who they are and what they are like to be around or how they would be around someone else’s children. As an example, he is a very impatient person, a shouter with a short fuse, who gets particularly annoyed by the kids not doing what they are told. I would assume this is not a side of him that his new partner has seen nor one she would want around her child, or else she wouldn’t be moving in with him. So equally, I can only surmise that there are aspects of her personality that he hasn’t seen yet that neither of us may want around our children.

I have told him that I am not stopping him from seeing our children, that I am more than happy to discuss this again when he has been with her for a year with a view to putting a plan in place to introduce them but until then I do not want her anywhere around them. He said he will consider my views and get back to me and I in turn said that I am not open to any further discussion on it.

I am flabbergasted that he thinks this is a good idea in any way shape or form. I would actually go as far as to say that he is being reckless in wanting to expose our children to such a new relationship, one in the honeymoon period where everything seems so great when you are just dating and getting to know each other, and that if it is serious then she will still be around next May and we can broach the subject again then. I wish him well, honestly, as if he is happy I hope he will in turn be happy around the kids. She is more than welcome to him but I just don't understand why he has to bring my children into it so early on.

I'm sure I am not for budging in terms of the 1 year rule but I’d be interested to hear other people’s views or experiences with similar situations to this.

Knine

To be honest I think you need to stay out of his personal life and let him parent his child. Who he sees is actually none of your business unless he is putting your child at risk. If he went to court a judge would tell you the same. You can advise your ex but you certainly cannot dictate to him when, where or who.

I think you are way too invested in your ex's personal life. I say this as a single parent. I don't interfere whatsoever in my exes relationships. Children are much more resilient then you think and having a new stepmother can be a blessing for the child.

LegacyUser

Thanks for your reply.

I'm not too bothered what he gets up to once it doesn't have an impact on my children.

My concern is for my children and them being around someone he has known for such a short period of time. Do I trust him to make the right decisions for our kids?

If this relationship is destined to be serious I don't see what the big rush is in bringing her around my kids? Am I being unreasonable in asking him to just wait a bit longer to be sure it is really as serious as he thinks it is?

I will be the one who will be picking up the pieces on a day to day basis if they are introduced to her and then it all breaks up and they are affected by that. And obviously I know that that can happen in any relationship, no matter how long you have been together. But to me 4 months seems so risky to me to be bringing the kids into it.

And we did agree the year originally in mediation.

Neyite

If I'm reading your OP right, you split over a year ago, but you have also a rule that new relationships must be a year in duration before meeting the kids.

Ok, he's gone back on his word, ex's tend to do that sometimes. But he's been with her since April (lets face it, he probably has) and moving in with her at the end of October/ beginning of November. It's 6 months. That's usually the minimum recommended for introducing kids to new partners.

I think you need to let him live his life. You don't get a say any more unfortunately, no more than he gets a say in how you introduce a new partner to your kids. You sound very invested - to the point you are concerned about what she might think if he yells at his kids in front of her? That's her business and if she's a crap judge of character then that's her fault. Nothing you should do except smile because he's not your problem any more.

I would say nothing about your agreement, nothing about them moving in together. The babysitting is trickier because if you start to dictate who he's allowed to ask to babysit the kids, then he can equally expect the same from you.

SB_Part2

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

I am flabbergasted that he thinks this is a good idea in any way shape or form. I would actually go as far as to say that he is being reckless in wanting to expose our children to such a new relationship, one in the honeymoon period where everything seems so great when you are just dating and getting to know each other, and that if it is serious then she will still be around next May and we can broach the subject again then. I wish him well, honestly, as if he is happy I hope he will in turn be happy around the kids. She is more than welcome to him but I just don't understand why he has to bring my children into it so early on.

I'm sure I am not for budging in terms of the 1 year rule but I’d be interested to hear other people’s views or experiences with similar situations to this.

This is a bit of an extreme reaction. Sure, it would be great if he was with his new partner longer but he's not. I think you're being unreasonable asking him to wait. He's moved on, you should be happy that he's someone else's problem now.

Addle

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

my children.

They're his children too.

A year is a very long time to have to wait.
If you were seeing someone,would you not find it odd to have to wait so long to be introduced to someone who has such a big role in your life?

LegacyUser

Neyite wrote: »

If I'm reading your OP right, you split over a year ago, but you have also a rule that new relationships must be a year in duration before meeting the kids.

Ok, he's gone back on his word, ex's tend to do that sometimes. But he's been with her since April (lets face it, he probably has) and moving in with her at the end of October/ beginning of November. It's 6 months. That's usually the minimum recommended for introducing kids to new partners.

I think you need to let him live his life. You don't get a say any more unfortunately, no more than he gets a say in how you introduce a new partner to your kids. You sound very invested - to the point you are concerned about what she might think if he yells at his kids in front of her? That's her business and if she's a crap judge of character then that's her fault. Nothing you should do except smile because he's not your problem any more.

I would say nothing about your agreement, nothing about them moving in together. The babysitting is trickier because if you start to dictate who he's allowed to ask to babysit the kids, then he can equally expect the same from you.

OK so I'll be clear. I have no issue with him dating again. Really. I can see how a new partner could EVENTUALLY add something positive to our kids lives, be that mine or his.

What I do have an issue with is wanting our children to live with a woman and her child who he has only known for 4 months. I know for a fact that their first date was at the end of May.

If he had approached me and suggested they meet, I would not have been happy that he had breached our agreement but I would have been open to discussion. But my kids living with her after that short a period of time really makes me feel uneasy and I don't see why I should be forced to agree with it.

I couldn't give a fiddlers if he shouts at her child! I was trying to illustrate that there are going to be sides to her that he can't have seen this soon that my kids could be exposed to when living with her. Am I not entitled to try to protect my kids from him being a bad judge of character? I'm their primary carer and have worked hard to get them back to a stable place. Im entitled to be worried abut how this might affect them?

One of the kids spent a long time in counselling post breakup trying to come to terms with things. It would kill me to see her back in that place.

Bringing the kids into such a new relationship seems so risky to me. I don't get the rush and I don't believe he is putting his kids interests first. He admitted himself it wasn't 'ideal' but his landlord is selling his house and she has money issues.

Am I to accept that if this doesn't work out, that I should be agreeable to him introducing every new girlfriend after a few months and we'll just cross our fingers and hope it works out.

I really don't see how a year is being unreasonable in a situation where he would like them to live with her, not just meet her ever now and then when they are with her. And her having a child who will be living with them adds a whole other dynamic for the to deal with also.

They have been together for FOUR months, FOUR!

BettePorter

I think the op has every right to have issues with this situ and I'm surprised by everyone saying stay out of his business etc. It is her business who her children are with for whatever length of time. If you changed the details here and it was a female ex who had moved in a fella the op had never met after 6 months and was going to be allowing him to babysit I think the reaction here would be different. But because it's a female it's seemingly ok. The op knows nothing about this woman....The ex barely does! What of the husband she left ? He could be a looper. Is he going to be there on occasion to visit his child? Any amount of ifs and couldas and of course it's all highly unlikely but at the end of the day ...The op has every right to query. In any relationship moving in together after 6 months is hasty in my view. But when you suddenly add blending families to the mix it just multiples the cons.

Addle

Does everyone have to have some sort of long term relationship with their babysitter now?

When I was a teen, I often minded strangers kids.

LegacyUser

Jeepers I'm a bit shocked at some of the replies here!

He is not just asking that they meet her. He is asking that they LIVE with her and her child when he has them.

That is a big difference to a casual meeting every now and then.

I couldn't give a fiddlers if he shouts at her kid! I was trying to illustrate that there are probably sides to her that he hasn't seen that my kids may get exposed to and I am trying to ensure that the relationship is serious before they are exposed to this situation. I know for a fact that their first date was at the very end of May. You guys do the maths on that - it is not even 6 months. And even if it was 6 months there is a big difference between meeting her and building up a relationship and moving in with her!!

I can see how a new partner, either mine or his could be beneficial for the kids but expecting me to be ok with them MOVING IN with a woman he has known for 4 months, nah, I don't think I am unreasonable to have concerns about that. Her kid will be living there too which also adds a whole other dynamic for them to deal with.

What's the big rush? If this new relationship, in its honeymoon period doesn't work out am I just expected to keep allowing him to do the same with the next women he meets? Surely there should be a period where he makes sure it is serious before involving the kids. He admitted himself that it wasn't 'ideal timing' but that her circumstances mean they are being 'forced' to do it. What?!!! He can do what he likes, but he has to take my feelings and concerns into account. You can be damned he would flip the lid if I decided to move a guy I had known for 4 months in here, and his kid.

I worked too hard on putting the pieces of their lives back together. One of them spent a long time in counselling coming to terms with things. Had he come to me and asked that they meet her, I would have been annoyed that he had breached the agreement but I would have been open to discussion. But it is a whole other ballgame when he wants them to live with her.

FOUR months people, FOUR months!!!

LegacyUser

Addle wrote: »

Does everyone have to have some sort of long term relationship with their babysitter now?

When I was a teen, I often minded strangers kids.

Did you move in with them too? Because my ex wants my kids to move in with his girlfriend of 4 months and her child. It s a very different scenario to just babysitting.

These types of situations can have serious consequences for the children. I saw it with my own eyes as my children fell apart over our relationship breakup. There is a lot at stake if they all move in and this 4 month old relationship turns out not to be the 'one' and it will be my kids who end up suffering. Kids dealing with relationship breakups experience it like they would grief over the death of someone they love. All I am trying to do is protect the kids and if they are still together in a year then maybe then we can discuss living with her.

I really can't see how I am being held up as the unreasonable one in this situation!

witchgirl26

OP don't think it's always good to judge a relationship solely on the duration. My parents knew each other 9 months on their wedding day and were one of the happiest couples I ever knew.

On the introducing the kids - from the way your ex mentioned meeting in a neutral area first before anything else it does sound like he's thought about this and is trying to do it gently while also moving on with his life. Do you have to be fully ok with it all - not really. Would you be more comfortable if you met this new partner? I know a couple who honestly cannot stand each other but have a good co-parenting relationship going on. Both met each others new partners (with the kids in one case and without in another) and got to know them a little to put their mind at ease about who their kids would be with. If you still had concerns after that based on her herself, then I could understand it but at the moment you don't seem to have any basis for objections to her as a person looking after your kids. Just that she's a new partner.

GritBiscuit

All you can do is support your kids to the absolute best of your ability in whatever situations they find themselves in. As much as you can advocate for them, you are trusted to make parental decisions including who acts in loco parentis and so is he.

There is no minimum legal requirement before blending families. There are ideal scenarios and recommended best practices but if he wants to do it differently, generally unless you can show why the court should intervene, that's his prerogative. Some kids are pushed into a new situation and take everything in their stride, some would take it badly even if a parent waited 5 years. At the end of the day you and your ex are entitled to get on with your lives in whatever way you see fit and as long as that is not significantly detrimental to your kids well-being - all well and good.

Probably the toughest aspect of these kind of situations is the only judge of how resilient your kids are will be is time. I know kids who were pushed before they were ready into life with a parents new partner and others who got a revolving door of their parent's new partners. Both went on to not want anything to do with that parent - and as tough as that is to live through from the other parent's perspective, even if it comes to that worst case scenario, all you can do is support your kids. Equally, I know plenty of blended families meandering along with no greater issues than any other.

Trying to micromanage their hurt and disappointments via a partner you are no longer with, will only frustrate and exhaust you as well as break down any good relations you have left with your ex. As long as they are not in any danger, reporting abuse, etc, then there is really nothing you nor the courts can do other than let nature/time take it's course.

Best of luck

LegacyUser

witchgirl26 wrote: »

OP don't think it's always good to judge a relationship solely on the duration. My parents knew each other 9 months on their wedding day and were one of the happiest couples I ever knew.

On the introducing the kids - from the way your ex mentioned meeting in a neutral area first before anything else it does sound like he's thought about this and is trying to do it gently while also moving on with his life. Do you have to be fully ok with it all - not really. Would you be more comfortable if you met this new partner? I know a couple who honestly cannot stand each other but have a good co-parenting relationship going on. Both met each others new partners (with the kids in one case and without in another) and got to know them a little to put their mind at ease about who their kids would be with. If you still had concerns after that based on her herself, then I could understand it but at the moment you don't seem to have any basis for objections to her as a person looking after your kids. Just that she's a new partner.

Great for your parents. Maybe my ex has met the love of his life too. But it is different when there are kids involved.

LegacyUser

GritBiscuit wrote: »

All you can do is support your kids to the absolute best of your ability in whatever situations they find themselves in. As much as you can advocate for them, you are trusted to make parental decisions including who acts in loco parentis and so is he.

There is no minimum legal requirement before blending families. There are ideal scenarios and recommended best practices but if he wants to do it differently, generally unless you can show why the court should intervene, that's his prerogative. Some kids are pushed into a new situation and take everything in their stride, some would take it badly even if a parent waited 5 years. At the end of the day you and your ex are entitled to get on with your lives in whatever way you see fit and as long as that is not significantly detrimental to your kids well-being - all well and good.

Probably the toughest aspect of these kind of situations is the only judge of how resilient your kids are will be is time. I know kids who were pushed before they were ready into life with a parents new partner and others who got a revolving door of their parent's new partners. Both went on to not want anything to do with that parent - and as tough as that is to live through from the other parent's perspective, even if it comes to that worst case scenario, all you can do is support your kids. Equally, I know plenty of blended families meandering along with no greater issues than any other.

Trying to micromanage their hurt and disappointments via a partner you are no longer with, will only frustrate and exhaust you as well as break down any good relations you have left with your ex. As long as they are not in any danger, reporting abuse, etc, then there is really nothing you nor the courts can do other than let nature/time take it's course.

Best of luck

Thanks.

This has been the most useful response to date.

I don't think I am trying to micromanage their hurt and disappointment, rather I am doing what I think is best to ensure that we don't have to go through what we went through previously. I was at the end of my rope at times trying to make them better. As the primary carer, I don't know if I have it in me to piece them back together again. Hopefully that won't happen, but I'd like to at least see evidence that the relationship he is in is a bit more serious once it comes out of the honeymoon stage before my kids live with them.

One of my children has just started school and she is finding it quite an adjustment. I dread to think what throwing this into the mix will do to her. And no, I can't predict how it will all pan out but I know my children so well now, their moods, their coping mechanisms etc. and my gut tells me there are going to be turbulent times ahead as they adjust.

All I am asking is that he not rush the living together part. Sure, lets talk about introducing them, even though I would prefer a year but as I have said before, the living together takes it to a whole other level that I don't think my children should be exposed to when the relationship is so new.

leggo

There's a tone to your post when you're discussing their relationship beyond your children...like you can feel the tension that's between you two. I think you're still very emotionally wrapped up in this that it's blinding you a bit.

Put it this way: if your ex came on here and detailed the situation from his POV (as outlined by you), I think everyone would be like "Yeah you're handling it sensibly, go ahead." The only problem here is that you have a problem with it. And why? Because of some stuff you agreed when you initially broke up all that time ago? I mean, if he was completely ripping the piss and introducing them after a few dates, I'd get it. But think about why you made that decision to begin with while forgetting about the time: to make sure the due diligence was put in beforehand to ensuring your children were introduced to a settled relationship. And, timelines aside (which nobody can control - like when people say they want to be married by 30 etc), it seems like he's ticked this box and you're getting technical in order to create a problem where there is none.

I'm not trying to discount your emotions here OP, you're entitled to them and the natural worry that comes with being a parent, but if you can get past that it seems like that's all there is and there isn't a huge problem here. Furthermore if you do interfere and try affect their relationship you start to veer into using your kids as weapons, which I'm sure is the opposite of what you want.

Sleepy

His judgement on what's best for the children you created together is as valid as yours is. You don't get to set "rules" or dictate how, or where, he parents them during his time with them.

lifeandtimes

Op you are too emotionally invested in your ex's life. From the tone of your posts you came on here expecting everyone to agree with you when the majority don't.

I've been to court with my ex and a very sensible judge said the following "it is not up to me or anyone else to dictate when and where a parent feels it's appropriate to move on with their life and have a new family other than that parent"

You need to stay out of your exs life and let him parent your child how he wants. If it fails then thats unfortunate but you just have to do your job and be there for your child and be the best mam you can be.

Distract yourself from this by getting involved in other things outside of the house and unless your child is in danger just smile and be polite to the ex

Neyite

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

Thanks.

This has been the most useful response to date.

I don't think I am trying to micromanage their hurt and disappointment, rather I am doing what I think is best to ensure that we don't have to go through what we went through previously. I was at the end of my rope at times trying to make them better. As the primary carer, I don't know if I have it in me to piece them back together again. Hopefully that won't happen, but I'd like to at least see evidence that the relationship he is in is a bit more serious once it comes out of the honeymoon stage before my kids live with them.

One of my children has just started school and she is finding it quite an adjustment. I dread to think what throwing this into the mix will do to her. And no, I can't predict how it will all pan out but I know my children so well now, their moods, their coping mechanisms etc. and my gut tells me there are going to be turbulent times ahead as they adjust.

All I am asking is that he not rush the living together part. Sure, lets talk about introducing them, even though I would prefer a year but as I have said before, the living together takes it to a whole other level that I don't think my children should be exposed to when the relationship is so new.

I'm not unsympathetic at all, far from it. I can only imagine the upheaval your children are going to be facing due to your ex who is probably thinking with a very different part of his anatomy right now. But my point is there is not much you can do about it, except as GritBiscuit says, trying to anticipate the fallout that your kids will experience, and do what you can to help them with that.

It's sh!t. And he'll be all Disney Dad impressing his new girlfriend showing off what a brilliant father he is then the kids unleash all their pent up hurt and frustration and anger at you when they return home because you are where they are comfortable to do that. You know what's ahead of you and are dreading it, understandably. But short of withholding the children from him (which sounds like it would escalate the situation) your options are very limited.

I know you are thinking only from your kids point of vew but your words in your posts if you talk to him the same may lend credence to him claiming you are just another crazy ex - eg phrases like "should you allow him to do this" etc. I know you are not a crazy ex, but have a read back over your posts and see where he would nitpick at what you've said and deliberately misrepresent it. If you are going to get anywhere with him you need to use more neutral phrasing if you know what I mean - instead of saying "I wont allow..." say stuff like "I'm concerned about [child] because they are doing so well in counselling, that such a quick introduction might cause setbacks and regressive behaviour when they go to your house" --it might get him thinking about the actual reality of fragile kids reacting badly in front of this GF rather than the happy families image he seems to have in his head. Right now, it's a bad idea for you, but you need to plant the seed that it's a bad idea for him too. He's not going to care if they start bed wetting at yours or playing up at school - that doesn't affect his life - but what might make him sit up and pay attention is to suggest that they might play up in front of her. If he struggles to control his temper or calm down his kids he might not want her to see that side of him yet.

You mentioned counselling for the children... any chance that talking to the counsellor might help? if the counsellor is able to suggest to your ex how to draw up a plan to gradually introduce this new girlfriend to the children in the least harmful way to the kids? He might not listen to you, but might listen to someone professional and impartial.

lifeandtimes

Neyite wrote: »

I'm not unsympathetic at all, far from it. I can only imagine the upheaval your children are going to be facing due to your ex who is probably thinking with a very different part of his anatomy right now. But my point is there is not much you can do about it, except as GritBiscuit says, trying to anticipate the fallout that your kids will experience, and do what you can to help them with that.

It's sh!t. And he'll be all Disney Dad impressing his new girlfriend showing off what a brilliant father he is then the kids unleash all their pent up hurt and frustration and anger at you when they return home because you are where they are comfortable to do that. You know what's ahead of you and are dreading it, understandably. But short of withholding the children from him (which sounds like it would escalate the situation) your options are very limited.

I know you are thinking only from your kids point of vew but your words in your posts if you talk to him the same may lend credence to him claiming you are just another crazy ex - eg phrases like "should you allow him to do this" etc. I know you are not a crazy ex, but have a read back over your posts and see where he would nitpick at what you've said and deliberately misrepresent it. If you are going to get anywhere with him you need to use more neutral phrasing if you know what I mean - instead of saying "I wont allow..." say stuff like "I'm concerned about [child] because they are doing so well in counselling, that such a quick introduction might cause setbacks and regressive behaviour when they go to your house" --it might get him thinking about the actual reality of fragile kids reacting badly in front of this GF rather than the happy families image he seems to have in his head. Right now, it's a bad idea for you, but you need to plant the seed that it's a bad idea for him too. He's not going to care if they start bed wetting at yours or playing up at school - that doesn't affect his life - but what might make him sit up and pay attention is to suggest that they might play up in front of her. If he struggles to control his temper or calm down his kids he might not want her to see that side of him yet.

You mentioned counselling for the children... any chance that talking to the counsellor might help? if the counsellor is able to suggest to your ex how to draw up a plan to gradually introduce this new girlfriend to the children in the least harmful way to the kids? He might not listen to you, but might listen to someone professional and impartial.

This entire post is you telling her how to orchestrate her exs life and what and when he can do it. Other than asking him (which is none of her business) there's nothing she can do. He can bring her to court for organised access and it can be in any house he lives in no matter who lives there with him. A 2 parent household on paper looks better than one (not always the case but I'm just saying on paper)

LegacyUser

There are two scenarios though here surely:

A. Introduce them to his new girlfriend of 4 months, and her child and let them slowly build a relationship
B. Move them out of the home he currently lives in and have them move in with his girlfriend of 4 months, and her kid

I get it, you all think I am a bitter, jealous ex who can't move on and doesn't want him to be happy! Its not the case. I have dated people myself since we split, and if I got into a committed relationship then yes, I am sure I will introduce my kids.

And I know you are all saying that the length of time of a relationship doesn't really matter. Although I would suggest it really, really does matter when you have to take into consideration children in these things.

So are you all saying that A and B are both the same, both have the exact same implications for the children? Are you saying I am wrong to want him to just wait a bit longer before he brings the children into this situation. Just to be sure that it really is serious and for the long haul, in as much as anyone can judge these things. I think a year down the line versus 4 months of dating, would certainly convince me that it is the right move to make.

Hey Sleepy, in the way we co-parent that we do get to say how we would like our children to be parented. Ultimately it would be a Judge that would decide if we couldn't come to an agreement but neither of us want to end up in Court and therefore tend to discuss as much as possible and set expectations so as to avoid it.

Neyite

lifeandtimes wrote: »

This entire post is you telling her how to orchestrate her exs life and what and when he can do it. Other than asking him (which is none of her business) there's nothing she can do. He can bring her to court for organised access and it can be in any house he lives in no matter who lives there with him. A 2 parent household on paper looks better than one (not always the case but I'm just saying on paper)

I agree that it's not her business, but she's going to tackle him anyway, it's clear from her posts.

So in order to not have it go nuclear for the sake of the kids in the middle of all this, I'm advising her on ways to get him to rethink the idea for himself. He'll likely reject it, since they don't seem to get on all that well, but going guns blazing and telling him she wont allow him to move in with a GF is going to backfire massively on her whereas her saying "look, think about the kids here" sounds a bit...calmer.

LegacyUser

Neyite wrote: »

I'm not unsympathetic at all, far from it. I can only imagine the upheaval your children are going to be facing due to your ex who is probably thinking with a very different part of his anatomy right now. But my point is there is not much you can do about it, except as GritBiscuit says, trying to anticipate the fallout that your kids will experience, and do what you can to help them with that.

I have anticipated it all, which is probably why I am so emotional about it. I'll be frank, I don't know if I am capable of piecing my kids back together if it were required again. He knows what I went through, how hard it was and that's just it, he is thinking with his d1ck. I know that he hasn't thought it through properly in terms of how it could affect the kids. All I am trying to do is advocate for them, and for myself in a way, because as I said I'm not sure I have it in me to go through it all again if they do regress.

It's sh!t. And he'll be all Disney Dad impressing his new girlfriend showing off what a brilliant father he is then the kids unleash all their pent up hurt and frustration and anger at you when they return home because you are where they are comfortable to do that. You know what's ahead of you and are dreading it, understandably. But short of withholding the children from him (which sounds like it would escalate the situation) your options are very limited.

I would never ever withhold my kids from him. I would never do that in a million years. They love him and benefit from seeing him. We speak positively about each other to them and we ensure that they have as stable a life as possible going between two homes. But as soon as a girl comes on the scene I see how this all goes out the window for him, because I know where his head is at. It is so disappointing and yet I kind of knew it would happen as I know what he is like. We would have to try to work out some kind of alternative scenario because I am not comfortable with them living with her at this juncture in their relationship. I don't see why there can't be room for some give and take here, even if you all see my desire for one year as some arbitary figure I have pulled out of nowhere. What is wrong with advocating for my kids when I know that he hasn't put their best interests at heart with this decision? I might not get my way, but being slated for trying to do what I think is best for my kids is so harsh. Not directed at you, but some of the other posters are being pretty scathing towards me.

I know you are thinking only from your kids point of vew but your words in your posts if you talk to him the same may lend credence to him claiming you are just another crazy ex - eg phrases like "should you allow him to do this" etc. I know you are not a crazy ex, but have a read back over your posts and see where he would nitpick at what you've said and deliberately misrepresent it. If you are going to get anywhere with him you need to use more neutral phrasing if you know what I mean - instead of saying "I wont allow..." say stuff like "I'm concerned about [child] because they are doing so well in counselling, that such a quick introduction might cause setbacks and regressive behaviour when they go to your house" --it might get him thinking about the actual reality of fragile kids reacting badly in front of this GF rather than the happy families image he seems to have in his head. Right now, it's a bad idea for you, but you need to plant the seed that it's a bad idea for him too. He's not going to care if they start bed wetting at yours or playing up at school - that doesn't affect his life - but what might make him sit up and pay attention is to suggest that they might play up in front of her. If he struggles to control his temper or calm down his kids he might not want her to see that side of him yet.

I can't believe it would be considered by anyone that the 'crazy' one in this situation would be the parent concerned with their children's mental health, over the parent wanting to move them in with the girlfriend of 4 months!!!!! I did send him on a few links to advice on how this might affect the kids, and funnily enough all of the articles suggest that it is a bad idea to subject kids to this kind of situation when the relationship is in the honeymoon period. I do hope he will take some of their advice on board or seek out his own before bulldozing through with this plan.

You mentioned counselling for the children... any chance that talking to the counsellor might help? if the counsellor is able to suggest to your ex how to draw up a plan to gradually introduce this new girlfriend to the children in the least harmful way to the kids? He might not listen to you, but might listen to someone professional and impartial.

Unfortunately the counselling was part of the Rainbows programme and her particular one has ceased due to funding and staffing issues. We do not have funds for private counselling.

Anyway, thanks lads, yis are a tough crowd! Whilst I certainly wasn't expecting everyone to disagree, I didn't think people would be so unkind to someone just trying to protect their kids. I'll continue to fight their corner, while you all feel sorry for my ex with his 'mental' ex!!!!

LegacyUser

Neyite wrote: »

I agree that it's not her business, but she's going to tackle him anyway, it's clear from her posts.

So in order to not have it go nuclear for the sake of the kids in the middle of all this, I'm advising her on ways to get him to rethink the idea for himself. He'll likely reject it, since they don't seem to get on all that well, but going guns blazing and telling him she wont allow him to move in with a GF is going to backfire massively on her whereas her saying "look, think about the kids here" sounds a bit...calmer.

Just to be a bit pedantic but I am not saying he can't move in with his girlfriend. What I said was if he wants to do so, we will have to rethink how we work access as I am not comfortable with them being around her. Obviously if he disagrees, then we will have to let a Judge decide, but I don't have to roll over either, just because he has suddenly decided this is the direction he wants to take his kids lives in.

I also said I was more than happy to sit down with him if he wanted and support a plan for introductions. But not at this point in their relationship.

There has to be give and take here, and if there isn't, then it will sadly be for a Judge to decide.

leggo

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

So are you all saying that A and B are both the same, both have the exact same implications for the children? Are you saying I am wrong to want him to just wait a bit longer before he brings the children into this situation. Just to be sure that it really is serious and for the long haul, in as much as anyone can judge these things. I think a year down the line versus 4 months of dating, would certainly convince me that it is the right move to make.

The thing is, I think most appreciate the theory of what you're saying, but unless I've misread the situation (possible, in work following on my phone): that's no longer practical. They're moving in together. They feel it's time and, with all due respect, that's not your place to judge and you don't know a lot about their relationship in truth. So it's actually more upheaval for your children to not have a solid base when they see their father. How do you want this to work in practise like? For them to go to a hotel? For his partner and her child to leave their home every weekend? Or for them to move their relationship at the pace his ex-partner dictates because of some stuff that was agreed years ago? It sounds like the latter is your preference, and that coupled with the tone of your posts towards him and the relationship is why people are feeling there's more at play here than just your children.

Again, your feelings are legitimate and understandable. But the practicalities of what you're saying simply don't work and if you try force them to then it becomes something very different.

witchgirl26

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

Great for your parents. Maybe my ex has met the love of his life too. But it is different when there are kids involved.

I completely get that it's different with kids involved and that's why I addressed that issue in the second part of my post.

OP I'm not having a go but you do say in another post about if they were together a year about "we could discuss them living together". Unfortunately that is not a discussion that you necessarily have to be involved in. You can be involved to the extent of expressing concern for your children but it is his decision who he lives with and if that is someone he thinks is ok for his kids to be around, he has a right to that opinion as much as you have a right to your concern.

Again maybe consider meeting her and her child in a neutral setting with your kids too or even just the adults if you want and judging based on the person she is rather than her just being a 4-month relationship. She could be terrible, course that happens, but she could be Mary Poppins and be amazing with kids and really lovely to boot.

I get your concern for your children and the upheaval, I honestly do and I wouldn't say your concern is wrong in any way but you may need to find a way of dealing with this and moving forward as it sounds like your ex is fairly set in his course and he's entitled to that too as long as he is trying to make it easier on the kids.

Neyite

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

Just to be a bit pedantic but I am not saying he can't move in with his girlfriend. What I said was if he wants to do so, we will have to rethink how we work access as I am not comfortable with them being around her. Obviously if he disagrees, then we will have to let a Judge decide, but I don't have to roll over either, just because he has suddenly decided this is the direction he wants to take his kids lives in.

I also said I was more than happy to sit down with him if he wanted and support a plan for introductions. But not at this point in their relationship.

There has to be give and take here, and if there isn't, then it will sadly be for a Judge to decide.

Unfortunately, your feelings wont come in to this. You don't get a veto on whether or not his live in partner is allowed to see your kids or not. The judge will not side with you unless you can prove she's somehow harmful to your children. You don't get to withhold access to their daddy because his girlfriend is there. A judge will chew you out on that.

Professionals can recommend to parents an optimum time frame to introduce new partners but there is no law for the judge to rule on it in your favour. You seem to think that the judge will tell him he's not allowed to move his girlfriend in or make him choose and I really feel that you are in for a shock when you get to court.

You say that there has to be give and take...in the nicest possible way, there doesn't. He is entirely allowed to move whoever he wants into his house at whatever time frame he chooses. He doesn't have to give or take anything. You kinda do have to roll over on this, legally.

All you can do is appeal to him as a dad to be as sensitive as possible to your kids introducing his new girlfriend.

lifeandtimes

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

Just to be a bit pedantic but I am not saying he can't move in with his girlfriend. What I said was if he wants to do so, we will have to rethink how we work access as I am not comfortable with them being around her. Obviously if he disagrees, then we will have to let a Judge decide, but I don't have to roll over either, just because he has suddenly decided this is the direction he wants to take his kids lives in.

I also said I was more than happy to sit down with him if he wanted and support a plan for introductions. But not at this point in their relationship.

There has to be give and take here, and if there isn't, then it will sadly be for a Judge to decide.

To be honest op you are using your children as the guard for your own issue of your partner moving on. That's just my perspective on this.

In a nutshell you are trying to tell your ex he can't live with his gf and you are using the children as the reason. The truth is you can't. They are his children too and if he feels they are ready to live with him and his gf,no matter how long they have been together then he has every right too. You are using the disintegration of your children in the possible scenario of him breaking up with her and you putting the pieces back together as your excuse to justify it.

If you go to court then the judge will look at this as what's best for the children and will have no emotional involvement and in one of my previous posts I quoted a judge in this exact same scenario, a stable relationship with their father is in their best interest,staying with their dad is in their best interest and if the only reason you object to them leaving together is based on the length of their relationship,which will have increased by the time you get the court then you may not be happy with what the judge will decide.

I wish you best op. There's nothing like the war of a broken up family when one party moves on. I've been there

GritBiscuit

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote:

I don't think I am trying to micromanage their hurt and disappointment, rather I am doing what I think is best to ensure that we don't have to go through what we went through previously. I was at the end of my rope at times trying to make them better. As the primary carer, I don't know if I have it in me to piece them back together again. Hopefully that won't happen, but I'd like to at least see evidence that the relationship he is in is a bit more serious once it comes out of the honeymoon stage before my kids live with them.

Trouble is, you don't have the right to see evidence...nor make any other kind of demands or set rules. You will find no judge in the land willing to rule against a father's reasonable access request based on an unevidenced presumption of the likely longevity of his new relationship. None.

I would suggest you make your peace with what is going on. All of it. Life as a single parent can be hard going. Pick battles you at least have a shot of winning...and also try and take a step back from the whole "piece them back together again" drama. From herein, you are only responsible for your relationship with your kids and he is responsible for his. As hard as it is to watch kids struggle to come to terms with huge upheaval in their lives, one way or another they do come to terms with it.

LegacyUser

I'll take my chances with any Judge over going against my instincts when it comes to this. I know my kids better than anyone, including my ex. He simply doesn't spend enough time with them that he could possibly know them the way I do and how they react to things. And this is not because I refuse him time to see them.

I'm not marching into a court telling a Judge that my ex can't see his kids. I would be putting across reasons why I think it is too soon for my kids (not my ex, see!!!) to LIVE with her based on how it would affect their mental health. Without going into details, there were some very worrying and extreme behaviours due to the upheaval of our split. I can present counselling records to back this up. I would be simply asking that he delay his decision.

I have to look at a worst case scenario of how they will react and whether I can handle it for the kids and until I am convinced that it is anything other than him thinking with his d!ck, nevermind what her motivations are, no one can convince me otherwise that this isn't going affect them.

LOL yeah moving in with their dad's girlfriend and her child within the next two months having never met her up to now is akin to meeting a new teacher!!! Dealing with this new dynamic in their lives, how she fits in, where they fit it, where her child fits in, how it will be for them having to share the limited time with their father with her - its going to be a complete breeze for them. I know he hasn't considered any of this up to now, so I'm doing it for him!!

I appreciate all of the responses and there is lots of ponder, especially from the ones who haven't automatically painted me as the jealous, bitter ex, who can see my point of view, but who don't necessarily agree with my approach.

I know I can't 'make' him do anything but I am going to express my opinion whether he chooses to take it on board or not. Just like I hope he would do if I made a decision that had the potential to impact negatively on the kids.

Off for a glass of vino and a cuddle with my son! Its been a long week!

Big Bag of Chips

OP, you keep repeating how you haven't the strength to piece your kids back together. There is no guarantee that this relationship won't work. There's no guarantee that if they lasted the 'agreed' 1 year that the relationship wouldn't break down 4 months later leaving you to 'piece your kids back together'. You children are young, and many many many times over their childhood, teenage and adult lives you might find yourself 'piecing them back together'. Stuff happens, and we parent!

I think it was idealistic of you both to agree to not introducing anyone to your kids until the relationship was a year old. It seems an arbitrary length of time plucked from thin air just to be seen to be agreeing on something. How long were you and your ex together? And your relationship still failed. You might have more failed relationships, you might not. Your ex might marry and live happily with this woman until he's in his old age.

Your attitude to this will heavily influence your children's reaction. If you set out, from the start, with it being a problem, then it will be a problem for them. If you seem ok with it, and encourage them to go and be happy they are more likely to be ok with it all.

The woman is only a normal woman. Like you! She's unlikely to be some sort of evil stepmother, and she's also likely to be on her best behaviour and welcoming and encouraging towards her partner's children. This has as much chance of being a positive change in their lives as it has of being a problem. If it becomes a problem, then you can try to discuss it with your ex. If you trust him to parent your children and allow them to go to him, unsupervised, every weekend, then you have to trust him to be a good parent to your children.

By the way your kids LIVE with you. They have access with their dad, and according to you he doesn't spend enough time with them to really know them so now claiming that they are going to be "moving in with" his new partner and her child is bordering on hysterical, to be honest! You're exaggerating your story to gain sympathy. A judge won't be interested.

Big Bag of Chips

For reference sake.. I'm a step mother, who moved in with my now husband after a few weeks, and who had bought and moved into our first house within 5 months of starting to go out with each other. I met his daughter after about a month. 17 years later, I'm still a stepmother to a 21 year old who recently me that she loves me, and that it is because of me and all the stuff I did for her, and with her at weekends growing up that she has any sort of relationship with her dad.

Edit: honestly, how would you feel if your kids ended up loving your ex's partner?

Addle

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

For reference sake.. I'm a step mother, who moved in with my (now husband) after a few weeks, and who had bought and moved into our first house within 5 months of starting to go out with each other. I met his daughter after about a month. 17 years later, I'm still a stepmother to a 21 year old who recently me that she loves me, and that it is because of me and all the stuff I did for her, and with her at weekends growing up that she has any sort of relationship with her dad.

The OP is unreasonable and it's probably a positive outcome like that outlined above that she fears, if honest.

Big Bag of Chips

I get that impression Addle, which is why I edited my post with the question.

I think you fear that this might be a really positive thing for your children, as much as you fear it might be a negative thing for them, OP.

lifeandtimes

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

whether I can handle it for the kids and until I am convinced

Read this part and read it over and over and over again. I...I....I.....
As I said before this is all about you and how you are aren't able to handle the situation and it being disguised with your children.

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

that it is anything other than him thinking with his d!ck, nevermind what her motivations are,

Yeah tell the judge exactly this word for word and youll get a cold hard slap of reality. For reference my ex partner was put in handcuffs and lead out of the court room for behaviour similar to this.

Say your ex had made this woman pregnant after a 1 night stand,shed be 4 months pregnant and decided to be a man and move in with her. Would you tell him to stop and leave the pregnant woman on her own to deal with this pregnancy because you feel it's too soon?

This man is in a relationship with this woman and is trying to set up and build a new family home and environment for his kids. All the makings of a decent guy in my opinion. You really need to take the advice of the people here and stop letting your emotions cloud your judgement. You can leave this up to a judge to decide but as I and other people here have said no judge in the land will side with you as you will come across as a jealous petty ex and I'm sorry but that's how it will look,no matter how much you try and jazz it up with the welfare of your children's mental health at the forefront.

You asked for advice and you have been given it and I sincerely hope you take it for your children's,your ex's,his new family and your sake.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

For reference sake.. I'm a step mother, who moved in with my now husband after a few weeks, and who had bought and moved into our first house within 5 months of starting to go out with each other. I met his daughter after about a month. 17 years later, I'm still a stepmother to a 21 year old who recently me that she loves me, and that it is because of me and all the stuff I did for her, and with her at weekends growing up that she has any sort of relationship with her dad.

Edit: honestly, how would you feel if your kids ended up loving your ex's partner?

Good for you! You were hardly going to be there to pick up the pieces if it didn't work out though were you? You wouldn't have even been aware of how the kid was affected if it didn't work out, would you?

I can't get my head around the big rush! If it so serious and you are all so certain its 'the one' so soon, why can't you take other people's concerns into account? What's 6 more months if at the end of the day it leads to a better relationship all round between those who care for the kids? Whether you think it was stupid or not, we agreed a year.

If you read through my posts you would see that I have addressed the issue around knowing that any relationship can fail, no matter how long it has been ongoing. But you still haven't convinced me that 4 months is anything other than reckless! Wahey if it all works out, and sure yeah, if it doesn't they'll be grand, because a stranger on the internet said they would be, and sure I'd totally accept that over knowing my kids and knowing how they handle things. Whats a bit of self harm, bed wetting, separation anxiety etc. Sure they'll get over it!

I have also addressed the issue about them having a relationship with another adult, and can see the benefits that can bring, be that with his new partner or mine. I am perfectly secure in my relationship with my kids and fear nothing of the sort. I'm afraid yourself and Addle's amateur psychology missed the mark on that one

I am not in major disagreement with anyone on the thread over having to accept potential future 'step mothers'. That is very different to being willing to accept one he has only known for 4 months. Why should my kids be dragged into his little experiment? And yes, I'm pretty sure when my kids are with their dad they are indeed LIVING with him! It all amounts to the same thing at the end of the day.

Addle

OP, did you attempt to control your ex's life when you were together?
Are you always as dismissive of others opinions in real life as you are to some of the responses in this thread?

It does nothing to surprise me that the mediator did not make a record of the '1 year' condition as it is unreasonable.

It's crap for you and your kids that they took the break up so badly. Not all kids do. Not all kids are negatively affected by their parents relationships. But maybe they pick up on your hostility?

Your ex has the benefit of the experience of your break up, which I doubt is something he wants to repeat. He's moved on. It's best for you all that you do too.

fineso.mom

"Your attitude to this will heavily influence your children's reaction. If you set out, from the start, with it being a problem. Then it will be a problem for them. If you seem ok with it, and encourage them to go and be happy they are more likely to be ok with it all."

The above quote from Big Bag of Chips should be framed and given to every new parent leavine a maternity hospital.
It's true from the most minor situations to the big traumatic life experiences.
I see it in my line of work all the time. The child who has a meltdown when they skin their knee has a parent who makes a huge deal about the skinned knee and promises to give out to the 'bold' ground and to buy a treat on the way home.
On the other hand, the child who has a little cry over the skinned knee, then dusts themselves off and forgets about it has the parent who acknowledges it must have hurt,gives a cuddle, washes the knee,puts on a plaster and says 'now,off you go again and play'.
The above might seem simplistic but it is simple really. Children deal with difficulties well when they are taught to deal with difficulties well.

Big Bag of Chips

You said this:

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

I’d be interested to hear other people’s views or experiences with similar situations to this.

And then give this reply when many people give you their views and experience:

HasHeLostthePlot! wrote: »

Wahey if it all works out, and sure yeah, if it doesn't they'll be grand, because a stranger on the internet said they would be, and sure I'd totally accept that over knowing my kids and knowing how they handle things. Whats a bit of self harm, bed wetting, separation anxiety etc. Sure they'll get over it!

Good luck to you, OP, you're going to need it with your attitude. Just know that a judge will give you a short shrift if you bring that attitude to court.

LegacyUser

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Read this part and read it over and over and over again. I...I....I.....
As I said before this is all about you and how you are aren't able to handle the situation and it being disguised with your children.

Not whether I can handle his relationship, its whether I can handle it if my kids react badly. Whats so wrong with that? If I can't mentally handle 'picking up the pieces' (Big Bag o'Chips that ones for you!) then what affect is that going to have on the kids? It will be me picking up the pieces of his impulsive decision if it doesn't work out, not him, so I think it shows a real foresight to be actually thinking and talking about how I might cope. Because I barely made it through last time. That very much shows I have my kids best interests at heart.

Yeah tell the judge exactly this word for word and youll get a cold hard slap of reality. For reference my ex partner was put in handcuffs and lead out of the court room for behaviour similar to this.

Yep, I'd surely say that to a Judge!! But it is undeniable, whatever you think

Say your ex had made this woman pregnant after a 1 night stand,shed be 4 months pregnant and decided to be a man and move in with her. Would you tell him to stop and leave the pregnant woman on her own to deal with this pregnancy because you feel it's too soon?

That's her and his problem. My kids are my priority.

This man is in a relationship with this woman and is trying to set up and build a new family home and environment for his kids. All the makings of a decent guy in my opinion. You really need to take the advice of the people here and stop letting your emotions cloud your judgement. You can leave this up to a judge to decide but as I and other people here have said no judge in the land will side with you as you will come across as a jealous petty ex and I'm sorry but that's how it will look,no matter how much you try and jazz it up with the welfare of your children's mental health at the forefront.

This man has known this woman for 4 months. Jazz it up whatever way YOU want but I don't have to be ok with her being around them so soon. No Judge will side with me in what exactly? I would not be attempting to revoke access. I would be attempting to alter the access based on my concerns. That's why people go to court, to sort out access based on all the factors going on in their lives. That's why mediation agreements are often revisited, because situations change and agreements need to reflect this. You know nothing about me and you have no basis on which to suggest that I am dressing up jealousy as a concern for my kids mental health. In fact its quite insulting and so far from the truth that all I can do is LOL!

You asked for advice and you have been given it and I sincerely hope you take it for your children's,your ex's,his new family and your sake.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your advice

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

You said this:



And then give this reply when many people give you their views and experience:




Good luck to you, OP, you're going to need it with your attitude. Just know that a judge will give you a short shrift if you bring that attitude to court.

I am delighted to hear other people's opinions, although I'm not aware that I am obliged to accept them.

Thanks! I'm hopeful we won't end up in Court.

Ursus Horribilis

OP, I think you could do with talking to a professional at this stage. While I can understand why you're angry, upset and aggrieved by this, your attitude is so toxic I fear for your kids. You don't have to like your ex's new girlfriend but the venom you've displayed on this thread has surely got to be transmitting across to your children.

Regardless of what you think of the length of this new relationship or of the new girlfriend, she's here to stay. Your kids are going to find a way to deal with her in their own time. If you're influencing their thinking with your spite and hatred, it's going to traumatise them even more. Nobody's suggesting you have to like the new woman but you don't seem to be capable of even basic civility.

Big Bag of Chips

Mod Note:
You are not obliged to accept anyone else's views, but as per the charter you are expected to respect them.
All poster are expected to abide by the Forum Charter.

For that reason I will not be approving your final post. You will understand why, I'm sure. But I will lock the thread as you have indicated your intent to not engage with it anymore.

All the best.