Issue with the 77A

cianb78

Today i was waiting 20 mins on the 77a and when the bus arrived he said he is isnt driving through killinarden because of kids throwing stones at buses but then i had to walk home from the square and i seen a 77a drive past me in killinarden im very dissopointed with this bus sevice bus men are a joke nowadays. I am so annoyed i was told the 77a wasnt traveling through killinarden and i seen less than 10 mins later i see a 77a drive through killinarden. trasport for ireland hahahaha divers justy want a easy job just not stopping in certain places. yous should stop the 27 from going through jobstown since ur buses are getting stoned at but no divers still go up there but refuse to go through killinarden. Just to say i hope divers nowadays that dnt take proper routes should get fired but im sure that wont happen hope all customers that use trasport for work and stuff stop getting busses and start using luas because at least they go to the designated routes.

Tickityboo

cianb78 wrote: »

Today i was waiting 20 mins on the 77a and when the bus arrived he said he is isnt driving through killinarden because of kids throwing stones at buses but then i had to walk home from the square and i seen a 77a drive past me in killinarden im very dissopointed with this bus sevice bus men are a joke nowadays. I am so annoyed i was told the 77a wasnt traveling through killinarden and i seen less than 10 mins later i see a 77a drive through killinarden. trasport for ireland hahahaha divers justy want a easy job just not stopping in certain places. yous should stop the 27 from going through jobstown since ur buses are getting stoned at but no divers still go up there but refuse to go through killinarden. Just to say i hope divers nowadays that dnt take proper routes should get fired but im sure that wont happen hope all customers that use trasport for work and stuff stop getting busses and start using luas because at least they go to the designated routes.

You do realise that buses are on GPS trackers and drivers can't just go where they like!!

KD345

Very often they pull buses from an area for an hour or two until Gardai patrol the route. It was more than likely the bus behind yours was given the all clear to run the normal route.

You'd be better off directing your anger at the parents of these kids and your local representatives who need to do more to protect your bus service.

patrickbrophy18

I had my first and only experience of this route today (or technically yesterday given that it was Thursday). Anyway, my issue with this route is the amount of detours it takes. It was all good up until turning left onto Castletymon Road. From here, it zigzagged through Avonmore Road, Seskin View Road, Old Bawn Road, Belgard Square North, Belgard Square West, Alderpark Court etc. :mad:

All I can say is that I feel very sorry for those who frequently rely on it for getting to town. Some of the roads are heavily traffic calmed, not to mention the fact that there were plenty of tight junctions where the front of the bus ended up on the other side of the road. Having said that, it was a once off. So, it was a bit of an adventure! :rolleyes::D

Bottom line, this route should be split into 2 or 3 dedicated variations!

brokenarms

Looks like they are stopping the service to the area. Dont blame them TBH

http://www.echo.ie/news/article/drivers-on-27-77a-and-65b-routes-may-not-serve-west-tallaght-after-6pm-from-monday

howiya

At the last Dublin Bus/Luas Community Forum held last Friday, NBRU representatives called the lack of community attendance at the meeting ‘atrocious’.

Who are they expecting to attend on behalf of the "community"?

54a also serves Killinarden. No mention of it in the article

brokenarms

howiya wrote: »

Who are they expecting to attend on behalf of the "community"?

54a also serves Killinarden. No mention of it in the article

Probably local councillors . Plenty of them around there.

Out in force for the water demonstration. Not bothered now by the looks of it.

howiya

To the OP, service was curtailed for an hour

http://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News-Archive/Central-Control-279/

howiya

brokenarms wrote: »

Probably local councillors . Plenty of them around there.

Out in force for the water demonstration. Not bothered now by the looks of it.

What does plenty of them around there mean? Doesn't every area have local councillors?

In another article Dublin Bus differentiate between local councillors and the community

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-tallaght-anti-social-behaviour-3586699-Sep2017/

“Dublin Bus is committed to serving the area of west Tallaght and is working closely with An Garda Síochana, local elected representatives and the community through the community forum in the area.”

Another article refers to an incident on Maplewood Road which could only involve the 56a, yet this route is not part of the union's action. 54a serves part of Killinarden and is not mentioned.

Blessington Road has also seen trouble yet the 65 will not be curtailed.

A lot of these incidents including today's curtailment have occurred before 6pm yet the union will cease driving in these areas from 6pm and on only three days of the week.

The union's approach is quite bizarre. Either it's safe or it's not. If they decide it's not then that has to be respected. Safety at work and using public transport has to be paramount but this selective approach by the union is bizarre.

KD345

howiya wrote: »

Who are they expecting to attend on behalf of the "community"?

54a also serves Killinarden. No mention of it in the article

The elected representatives of the area. Politicians, community leaders and local Gardai. They should be more active on this issue which is affecting thousands of commuters almost daily.

The 54a and 65 do not directly travel through Killinarden. It is far easier for Gardai to monitor main roads than housing estates which is why they can continue a service on the N81 rather than through Killinarden Heights. I'm guessing patrolling the area in daylight is also easier.

Xterminator

I know for a fact the bus stops in tallaght had notices on them advising that anti social behaviour was threatening the service and asking locals to please make sure their children were not involved. Saw notices with my own eyes.

IMO DB have to provide a safe work environment for their employees and customers, and this means they are justified in withdrawing services if repeated attacks occur.

Where were the counsellors and parents when the anti social behaviour was not addressed? I have sympathy with affected residents, but they have a collective responsibility too to identify the gurriers and report them.

GhostyMcGhost

Same ****e is going on in Neilstown

It's just not good enough and it's beyond time the parents were brought to task over their beloved angles

Kermit.de.frog

Reduced dole for offences of the children would focus minds pretty bloody quick.

howiya

KD345 wrote: »

The elected representatives of the area. Politicians, community leaders and local Gardai. They should be more active on this issue which is affecting thousands of commuters almost daily.

The 54a and 65 do not directly travel through Killinarden. It is far easier for Gardai to monitor main roads than housing estates which is why they can continue a service on the N81 rather than through Killinarden Heights. I'm guessing patrolling the area in daylight is also easier.

Gardai and councillors were at the meetings. Who are these community leaders? I'm living in Tallaght (not an affected part) 30 years and I don't know who the community leader is.

I'm pretty sure the posters on bus stops another poster has referred to are something to do with councillors as I've seen them at their constituency office in Tallaght village too.

If they're able to provide a service along the N81 surely they can keep the 77a and 65b going as far as Citywest without going through Killinarden.

The 54a serves stops beyond the Square and serves Killinarden estate.

56a has had trouble in Springfield but won't be pulled according to the article.

The point I'm making is the union's approach seems a bit half and half. Either it's safe or its not. If they decide it's unsafe then they are well within their rights to stop driving past the Square but yet they are happy to let their colleagues drive in these same areas. IMO they should pull all the routes until the situation is resolved.

brokenarms

howiya wrote: »

Gardai and councillors were at the meetings. Who are these community leaders? I'm living in Tallaght (not an affected part) 30 years and I don't know who the community leader is.

.

Im not 100 percent sure on this but read that only 2 councillors showed up.

I dont know how many are in the area but going by the link, there are more than two. http://www.sdcc.ie/council/councillors

There are also lots of stand up people in that community from youth groups church groups and so on who need to be there the next time around. No bus in an area like that is nothing short than devastating and does not seem to be getting the attention it deserves.

I think the stance the unions are taking is to cause least disruption the to working residents by stopping at 6pm. Hopefully most of those that do a 9 to 5 are home by then.
My opinions by the way. Not anyone elses.

SteM

cianb78 wrote: »

Today i was waiting 20 mins on the 77a and when the bus arrived he said he is isnt driving through killinarden because of kids throwing stones at buses but then i had to walk home from the square and i seen a 77a drive past me in killinarden im very dissopointed with this bus sevice bus men are a joke nowadays. I am so annoyed i was told the 77a wasnt traveling through killinarden and i seen less than 10 mins later i see a 77a drive through killinarden. trasport for ireland hahahaha divers justy want a easy job just not stopping in certain places. yous should stop the 27 from going through jobstown since ur buses are getting stoned at but no divers still go up there but refuse to go through killinarden. Just to say i hope divers nowadays that dnt take proper routes should get fired but im sure that wont happen hope all customers that use trasport for work and stuff stop getting busses and start using luas because at least they go to the designated routes.

Not sure what you're talking about the 27 for, I've seen lots of social media messages from DB where the 27 gets curtailed due to antisocial behaviour. Happens pretty frequently.

KD345

howiya wrote: »

Gardai and councillors were at the meetings. Who are these community leaders? I'm living in Tallaght (not an affected part) 30 years and I don't know who the community leader is.

I'm pretty sure the posters on bus stops another poster has referred to are something to do with councillors as I've seen them at their constituency office in Tallaght village too.

If they're able to provide a service along the N81 surely they can keep the 77a and 65b going as far as Citywest without going through Killinarden.

The 54a serves stops beyond the Square and serves Killinarden estate.

56a has had trouble in Springfield but won't be pulled according to the article.

The point I'm making is the union's approach seems a bit half and half. Either it's safe or its not. If they decide it's unsafe then they are well within their rights to stop driving past the Square but yet they are happy to let their colleagues drive in these same areas. IMO they should pull all the routes until the situation is resolved.

The two articles I read spoke of the disappointment from both Dublin Bus and Luas of a lack of representation at recent meetings. Tallaght has a great community spirit and lots of activists, this was evident at the recent water protests and bin disputes. I'm just shocked that an issue which affects thousands of people in their locality is not getting the same response from these people.

The 54a operates beyond The Square turning at Whitestown Cross towards Kiltipper. It passes Killinarden but does not operate through the estate of Killinarden Heights. This area is served by the 65b and 77a.

The 56a operates once an hour, it might be a case they can patrol this route by the time next bus is due. This is different to the 27 and 77a which operate every 10 minutes at times.

howiya

KD345 wrote: »

The two articles I read spoke of the disappointment from both Dublin Bus and Luas of a lack of representation at recent meetings. Tallaght has a great community spirit and lots of activists, this was evident at the recent water protests and bin disputes. I'm just shocked that an issue which affects thousands of people in their locality is not getting the same response from these people.

The 54a operates beyond The Square turning at Whitestown Cross towards Kiltipper. It passes Killinarden but does not operate through the estate of Killinarden Heights. This area is served by the 65b and 77a.

The 56a operates once an hour, it might be a case they can patrol this route by the time next bus is due. This is different to the 27 and 77a which operate every 10 minutes at times.

The bin and water charges were political issues and are entirely different. Do you think that Joe Bloggs on a water march has the power to stop these vandals? Maybe if the Gardai policed these bus routes with the same resources they gave to these marches those involved would be caught and stopped.

You don't need to explain to me where the buses serve and don't serve.

The 77a does not operate every 10 minutes at any time of the day.The 65b runs every hour similar to the 56a.

Do you think these vandals won't touch the 54a when it suddenly becomes the nearest bus to them, a couple of minutes walk away at most??

It's the inconsistency that gets me. A union is supposed to be for all its members, not a select few. What if one of their members is seriously hurt on one of the routes that is left running?

As I said before all routes should be stopped at the square until problem goes away or is dealt with.

liger

howiya wrote: »

Who are they expecting to attend on behalf of the "community"?

54a also serves Killinarden. No mention of it in the article

Estate management would be the local representatives, people that work out of the community centres and have lots of dealing with the councillors, gardai and management in DB.

54A operate from Donnybrook while the 77a, 65b, 65 and 27 are Ringsend. (some 27s from clontarf)

Stephen15

In reality buses shouldn't be taken out of these areas. They should place an enforced ban on loitering ie hanging around without good purpose after 6pm in these areas. Those found doing should be sent home or taken to the station that would certainly help solve the issue. I predict a Republican vigilante group to pop up and patrol the area if the guards don't don't do their job nip this in the bud. Might be the only way to get the word to them.

GhostyMcGhost

Stephen15 wrote: »

In reality buses shouldn't be taken out of these areas. They should place aneforced ban on loitering ie hanging around without good purpose after 6pm in these areas. Those found doing should be sent home or taken to the station that would certainly help solve the issue. I predict a Republican vigilante group to pop up and patrol the area if the guards don't don't do their job nip this in the bud. Might be the only way to get the word to them.

So a curfew?

But hang around in the city centre all you want at night?

Maybe they should carry their public services card while they're at it

Stephen15

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

So a curfew?

But hang around in the city centre all you want at night?

Maybe they should carry their public services card while they're at it

Not a curfew as such. If you've got a purpose to be out you can stay out and go about business if you don't you then you go home.

A curfew infers that all minors should be at home by a certain time.

Stephen15

Not only is this dangerous for passengers and drivers and staff surely it costs DB quite a lot of money. All those windows smashed and buses vandalised. The money could surely be spent better off elsewhere.

A thats has stones thrown at probably will only 3 or 4 passengers on it if its late at night paying what €2.60 with a leap card or €3.30 cash or is free on a pass. Is what €10 to €20 made at the most. A broken window would cost a few hundred to replace. So surely its in DBs interest not to run these routes.

SteM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Not only is this dangerous for passengers and drivers and staff surely it costs DB quite a lot of money. All those windows smashed and buses vandalised. The money could surely be spent better off elsewhere.

A thats has stones thrown at probably will only 3 or 4 passengers on it if its late at night paying what €2.60 with a leap card or €3.30 cash or is free on a pass. Is what €10 to €20 made at the most. A broken window would cost a few hundred to replace. So surely its in DBs interest not to run these routes.

Dublin Bus are probably not even loosing that money to be honest. If someone pays €2.60 to go from Kevin's Street to jobstown but has to get off at the square they're still paying the €2.60. No one is going to not get the bus just because it terminates early.

devnull

SteM wrote: »

Dublin Bus are probably not even loosing that money to be honest. If someone pays €2.60 to go from Kevin's Street to jobstown but has to get off at the square they're still paying the €2.60. No one is going to not get the bus just because it terminates early.

Remember that Dublin Bus won't get paid for journeys that they do not run.

KD345

devnull wrote: »

Remember that Dublin Bus won't get paid for journeys that they do not run.

Whilst this is the case, the Dublin Bus contract with the National Transport Authority clearly details the obligation on the company to operate their buses safely without risk to passengers. The ongoing problems on these routes, to which the NTA are aware, would certainly override the loss of service penalty.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Remember that Dublin Bus won't get paid for journeys that they do not run.

Does a curtailed or diverted service count as service not operated. Say if a bus is diverted due to roadworks or a parade etc. does this count as not operated. The 77a hasn't stopped operating its just been curtailed/diverted.

KD345

Stephen15 wrote: »

Does a curtailed or diverted service count as service not operated. Say if a bus is diverted due to roadworks or a parade etc. does this count as not operated. The 77a hasn't stopped operating its just been curtailed/diverted.

There are penalties for not operating a full route, however there are exclusions for events such as roadworks, diversions and poor weather conditions.

The company is also required to report security incidents and times/locations where buses have been curtailed because of incidents. The NTA would be very aware of these ongoing issues in Tallaght.

devnull

KD345 wrote: »

Whilst this is the case, the Dublin Bus contract with the National Transport Authority clearly details the obligation on the company to operate their buses safely without risk to passengers. The ongoing problems on these routes, to which the NTA are aware, would certainly override the loss of service penalty.

If services are curtailed or diverted then I think that funding should still be supplied by the NTA in the most part, I was simply refering to the fact that if services were not running altogether then the company should not be funded for them.

Certainly these services also should not be counted towards performance metrics and indicators however because that wouldn't be fair since it is due to factors outside the control of Dublin Bus and they need to run a safe service for their passengers and staff as you say.

The problem with anti-social behaviour however is bigger than just a few buses being hit by stones and ridden on the back of, it's a problem throughout society in Ireland as a whole and needs to be tackled as so rather than being tackled as just a problem on a couple of bus routes.

Stephen15

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

So a curfew?

But hang around in the city centre all you want at night?

Maybe they should carry their public services card while they're at it

Also a curfew in this sense generally only apllies to minors this would apply to minors. However my plan would to apply to anyone hanging around without good intent whether they 15 or 50.

I would suggest that DB deploy security similar to the Luas on these routes to help curb this. While this may not curb the stone throwing issue in would deter on board incidents. As for stone throwing many security companies provide cars which could escourt buses through areas with high levels of anti social behavior. Fit the cars with CCTV and loudspeakers which would play something like "Gardai are on route please leave the area immediately".

Prosecute the b@stards through CCTV evidence if over 18 if under 18 give them and their 'parents' the fright of their lives.

ThisRegard

A police state is what you're suggesting, but only in certain areas?

Your suggestions are bizarre, fit for dystopian movies is about it.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also a curfew in this sense generally only apllies to minors this would apply to minors. However my plan would to apply to anyone hanging around without good intent whether they 15 or 50.

Good luck defining what 'good intent' would be and creating a regulation that would not be challenged by people as being possibly in breach of article 5 of the European Convention on Human Rights in relation to their right to liberty.

Then you are going to have to have the personnel to enforce this which is not going to come cheap for all the areas that are hit by behaviour from time to time and a justice system that hands out real punishments rather than the pathetic ones they hand out now for anti-social behaviour.

Stephen15

ThisRegard wrote: »

A police state is what you're suggesting, but only in certain areas?

What do you mean by police state. A state where justice is served meaning people who break the law are prosecuted.

Do gooders don't like it but policing the areas where there is a high level of crime is a perfectly logical step. No point on overly policing an area with a low level just for balance. Do gooders say "oh the kids have nothing to do" or "they need help not punishment".

Fact of the matter is most people in these areas are honest decent hard working people. Extra policing despite the fact that do gooders don't like it will make the good honest hard working people like bus users and bus drivers feel safer meaning they can go about their daily in peace just like people in areas with low levels can.

ThisRegard

You want people who leave their homes after a certain time to be stopped and give a valid reason as for doing so.

I don't know what you mean though by your constant references to do gooders, unless you're misusing the term.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Good luck defining what 'good intent' would be and creating a regulation that would not be challenged by people as being possibly in breach of article 5 of the European Convention on Human Rights in relation to their right to liberty.

Then you are going to have to have the personnel to enforce this which is not going to come cheap for all the areas that are hit by behaviour from time to time and a justice system that hands out real punishments rather than the pathetic ones they hand out now for anti-social behaviour.

Countries break European law all the time look at Hungry with their border fence Austria with their border checks.

These are far more extreme than simply putting boots on the ground and enforcing the law. Loitering is a crime in this country afaik.

Good intent would be going to work, waiting for a bus, going for a walk, playing a sport or doing something thats not sitting on a street corner doing this should be done in a house not on a street.

I agree we do need a system which comes down harder on people who are involved with anti social behaviour in the courts.

As for personnel how come the Luas can afford security even IE have been increasing their presence but DB don't spend a penny on it.

ThisRegard

Stephen15 wrote: »

As for personnel how come the Luas can afford security even IE have been increasing their presence but DB don't spend a penny on it.

Security on trains or the luas don't run alongside them protecting them like the secret service, nor would they ask people in public to go home and get off the streets.

whiskeygirl

Stephen15 wrote: »

Countries break European law all the time look at Hungry with their border fence Austria with their border checks.

These are far more extreme than simply putting boots on the ground and enforcing the law. Loitering is a crime in this country afaik.

Good intent would be going to work, waiting for a bus, going for a walk, playing a sport or doing something thats not sitting on a street corner doing this should be done in a house not on a street.

I agree we do need a system which comes down harder on people who are involved with anti social behaviour in the courts.

As for personnel how come the Luas can afford security even IE have been increasing their presence but DB don't spend a penny on it.

Because DB's network dwarfs that of Luas and IE, and IE/Luas own the linear routes (way easier to provide security) and stations their respective services use, as opposed to Dublin Bus which uses public roads and places. Fairly obvious.

Stephen15

ThisRegard wrote: »

You want people who leave their homes after a certain time to be stopped and give a valid reason as for doing so.

I don't know what you mean though by your constant references to do gooders, unless you're misusing the term.

Its called profiling it happens all the time look at who the guards at checkpoints, look at the motor insurance industry as an example.

Target large congregations of young lads drinking Dutch Gold not people on their own or people who like they maybe going to work or travelling somewhere. I or anybody I know leaves their house without a purpose whether it be to go to work, go for a daytrip, go for a walk/run or bring the dog for a walk etc. I don't go out to sit on a wall and throw stones at buses or get up to other anti social behaviour.

By do gooders I mean people who defend these scumbags saying they've got "nothing better to be doing" or they simply "bored". I'm often bored too but I don't go around throwing stones at buses or breaking the law.

XPS_Zero

brokenarms wrote: »

Probably local councillors . Plenty of them around there.

Out in force for the water demonstration. Not bothered now by the looks of it.

I'll preface this by saying I disagreed with water charges, not on their own but because with all the other stealth taxes we were getting the line had to be drawn somewhere...but...

Most of the ones that turn up for the water demonstration, SWP, or SP or ULA or AAA-PBP or provisional continuity new AAA-ULA-SWP whatever other alphabet soup they've vomited up after their latest split over what happened in Russia in 1918...they are not interested so much in issues as they are issues that allow them to grab the limelight and play working class hero.

They're a crew of upper middle class toffs who went to fee paying schools who enjoy playing dress up and pretending to be working class (in a way that's actually quite insulting and condescending) just long enough to get the cameras pointing at them then they go away. I recall an incident at the US embassy, much as I would not support most US blood baths, where they said they were going to burn a US flag, nobody turned up other than one journo who hid wondering if they'd still do it with no cameras around...they didn't.

They also seem to think being working class means dressing like a scrote in tshirts or jeans to an office job, well I grew up in a council estate and went to a normal school and I have an office job now...I wear a f---g suit to it, I shave, I wash my hair and generally you know...groom myself. The cartoonish image these upper middle class clowns "playing" poor have of us, and through which they claim to want to represent us, is really insulting.

Crime is a real complex issue where there is no easy answer or simple slogan, it takes hard work and complex solutions so it's not suited to these people who think you can fit answers to complex policy issues on the back of a beer mat. You will never see RBB or Paul Murphy or the like at meetings about drugs or crime and if you did they'd give you nonsense like "tax the rich to give them more facilities", as if lack of a basketball court makes you want to joyride cars and throw rocks at busses...no being a s-c-u-m-b-a-g who was dragged up not brought up makes you want to do those things. Much as these areas need investment and better planning it's not an excuse for an individual to commit a crime.

liger

howiya wrote: »

As I said before all routes should be stopped at the square until problem goes away or is dealt with.

What about when the problem starts in the Barn or Cork street area, should they just cancel the buses? There was a high number of used needles being left on buses and it was tracked back to this area. Bypassing areas won't solve anything and only punishes decent people who use the service.

I'd be very interested to see exact numbers for incidents recorded, are we talking 5 times a day 7 days a week? once every couple of days. Are these confirmed incidents or some drivers that want to make the rest of their shift handy ? don't say it's not a possibility.

john boye

Whilst private security could certainly help with on-board issues it still wouldn't do much to prevent stone-throwing, which seems to be the meat of the matter here.

Stephen15

ThisRegard wrote: »

Security on trains or the luas don't run alongside them protecting them like the secret service, nor would they ask people in public to go home and get off the streets.

No thats the job of the Gardai. I never said security should do that but what they could do is phone the Guards and ask them to stop doing what they're doing and to leave the area or the Guards will come and arrest them/bring them home something they're allowed. Even place them under citizens arrest if needs be which is legal. At the end of the day its not illegal to tell someone what they're doing is illegal/wrong/immoral and call them out for it.

whiskeygirl wrote:

Because DB's network dwarfs that of Luas and IE, and IE/Luas own the linear routes (way easier to provide security) and stations their respective services use, as opposed to Dublin Bus which uses public roads and places. Fairly obvious.

The Luas uses plently of public spaces look at most of the stops on in the cc on the red line such as Jervis Street, Smithfield and Hueston. All public rights of way patrolled by private security when Luas CC opens there will be plently more stops shared with public rights of way opened all of which will be patrolled by private security at times.

As for routes only with high levels of anti social behaviour will be patrolled not the ones with low levels. So most routes wouldn't require security.

Stephen15

john boye wrote: »

Whilst private security could certainly help with on-board issues it still wouldn't do much to prevent stone-throwing, which seems to be the meat of the matter here.

Sent a few security guards in a car with loudspeaker, cctv and a direct radio to the guards to escourt the buses. Even give the buses a Garda escourt through the estates.

Petyr Baelish

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'll preface this by saying I disagreed with water charges, not on their own but because with all the other stealth taxes we were getting the line had to be drawn somewhere...but...

Most of the ones that turn up for the water demonstration, SWP, or SP or ULA or AAA-PBP or provisional continuity new AAA-ULA-SWP whatever other alphabet soup they've vomited up after their latest split over what happened in Russia in 1918...they are not interested so much in issues as they are issues that allow them to grab the limelight and play working class hero.

They're a crew of upper middle class toffs who went to fee paying schools who enjoy playing dress up and pretending to be working class (in a way that's actually quite insulting and condescending) just long enough to get the cameras pointing at them then they go away. I recall an incident at the US embassy, much as I would not support most US blood baths, where they said they were going to burn a US flag, nobody turned up other than one journo who hid wondering if they'd still do it with no cameras around...they didn't.

They also seem to think being working class means dressing like a scrote in tshirts or jeans to an office job, well I grew up in a council estate and went to a normal school and I have an office job now...I wear a f---g suit to it, I shave, I wash my hair and generally you know...groom myself. The cartoonish image these upper middle class clowns "playing" poor have of us, and through which they claim to want to represent us, is really insulting.

Crime is a real complex issue where there is no easy answer or simple slogan, it takes hard work and complex solutions so it's not suited to these people who think you can fit answers to complex policy issues on the back of a beer mat. You will never see RBB or Paul Murphy or the like at meetings about drugs or crime and if you did they'd give you nonsense like "tax the rich to give them more facilities", as if lack of a basketball court makes you want to joyride cars and throw rocks at busses...no being a s-c-u-m-b-a-g who was dragged up not brought up makes you want to do those things. Much as these areas need investment and better planning it's not an excuse for an individual to commit a crime.

All very good points.

I believe that the reason SF, PBP, AAA / Solidarity whatever they want to call themselves now won't get involved is because the enemy here is not the rich man, the 1%. It's the "working class" man and their kids, their voters. They can't go pointing the finger at them now can they? No, it's much better to place the blame on the Garda, the tool of the state who as we all know are the real enemy...

Yes, lets call on the Garda when it suits us but call them scum the rest of the time.

Have your cake and eat it folks. Paul Murphy will spoonfeed it to you as you walk home with no bus to take you there.

XPS_Zero

Petyr Baelish wrote: »

All very good points.

I believe that the reason SF, PBP, AAA / Solidarity whatever they want to call themselves now won't get involved is because the enemy here is not the rich man, the 1%. It's the "working class" man and their kids, their voters. They can't go pointing the finger at them now can they? No, it's much better to place the blame on the Garda, the tool of the state who as we all know are the real enemy...

Yes, lets call on the Garda when it suits us but call them scum the rest of the time.

Have your cake and eat it folks. Paul Murphy will spoonfeed it to you as you walk home with no bus to take you there.

Because they see most problems as social ones they can't seem to grasp the concept of an individual doing something wrong. Many problems are social (your parents not teaching you to respect public and private property, that violence is not "funny" it's wrong etc) but those social problems can be solved at a macro policy level while still enforcing individual responsibility. I don't dispute that my growing up in a deprived area makes me more likley to commit crimes, I do dispute that its something that should mitigate my punishment in court, same way being drunk or on drugs should not.

The scrotes who are these little knacks parents are not working class, they are the small but loud class of welfare lifers who in many cases have never worked a day in their lives or if they do work the bare minimum, who "accidentally" get pregnant 5 times in a row while still on the dole etc Working class people actually have jobs.

I don't see any contradiction between having progressive social and crime policies that seek to make these areas nicer places to live and having hammer blow punishments for these kids early on. What tends to happen though is two things, and this is where the problem lies:

1. The parents have never taught them that this stuff is wrong
2. When the system gets a hold of them their solicitor moans about their socio-economic situation and "deprived" area and they get a slap on the wrist, over the years they notice there is no habitual offenders law so they can clock up as many offenses as they want and still get suspended sentences.

As any parent reading this will know kids, like pets, naturally test boundries until a line is drawn and they are told "no!", both of these patterns teach them there are no consequences to my actions, therefore why stop?

I don't have one easy answer, I'm not like RBB, though I do have a long complex set of them I could suggest too long to go into here, the solutions are out there but they're not simplistic. I can understand their frustration in wanting to withdraw busses from the area but I would want to explore ideas that target the offenders much more directly.

Stephen15

Petyr Baelish wrote: »

All very good points.

I believe that the reason SF, PBP, AAA / Solidarity whatever they want to call themselves now won't get involved is because the enemy here is not the rich man, the 1%. It's the "working class" man and their kids, their voters. They can't go pointing the finger at them now can they? No, it's much better to place the blame on the Garda, the tool of the state who as we all know are the real enemy...

Yes, lets call on the Garda when it suits us but call them scum the rest of the time.

Have your cake and eat it folks. Paul Murphy will spoonfeed it to you as you walk home with no bus to take you there.

Heres a video of incidents of Luas security being firm on people. This what SF/PBP/AAA/Solidarity probably support. The person in question obivously did something he's obivously not being restrained by a security guard for no reason

https://youtu.be/HxG4CN4g3bc

Whatever the hell "Freedom of Country" means

Heres another video made by some SJWs well very well said by the security guard at 4:46 and at 6:18.

https://youtu.be/VqpeLlOzgQI

I don't usually defend guards but I think an ordinary person should be protected from crime and anti social behaviour. I'm not against filming the Gardai or anyone for that matter if they're they should called up on it what I am against is people hassling Gardai only doing a job and stopping whats illegal.

I do think there is a certain degree of laziness from Gardai not responding to incudents that aren't serious enough for them. I believe if nipped low level crime such as anti social behavior and small theft in the bud serious crime will follow if dealt properly and effectively.

dfx-

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I had my first and only experience of this route today (or technically yesterday given that it was Thursday). Anyway, my issue with this route is the amount of detours it takes. It was all good up until turning left onto Castletymon Road. From here, it zigzagged through Avonmore Road, Seskin View Road, Old Bawn Road, Belgard Square North, Belgard Square West, Alderpark Court etc. :mad:

All I can say is that I feel very sorry for those who frequently rely on it for getting to town. Some of the roads are heavily traffic calmed, not to mention the fact that there were plenty of tight junctions where the front of the bus ended up on the other side of the road. Having said that, it was a once off. So, it was a bit of an adventure! :rolleyes::D

Bottom line, this route should be split into 2 or 3 dedicated variations!

Absolutely. The route is far far too long and should be back to the Square terminus before Network Direct got hold of it.

It was extended to improve connectivity cover over the cut of the 50.

devnull wrote: »

Remember that Dublin Bus won't get paid for journeys that they do not run.

There should not be a financial incentive or imperative or burden put on companies to send drivers, passengers and buses into danger.

KD345 wrote: »

Whilst this is the case, the Dublin Bus contract with the National Transport Authority clearly details the obligation on the company to operate their buses safely without risk to passengers. The ongoing problems on these routes, to which the NTA are aware, would certainly override the loss of service penalty.

You might as well as shout it at the moon as make the NTA aware about it, what are they going to do about it? Especially after office hours...

devnull

dfx- wrote: »

There should not be a financial incentive or imperative or burden put on companies to send drivers, passengers and buses into danger.

If areas are dangerous then the bus should be curtailed and diverted to not serve areas which can reasonably be deemed as being dangerous, then there should not be any with-holding of PSO in my view because it would be unfair.

However if timetabled departures are cancelled and do not operate at all then Dublin Bus should not be paid PSO for them because they are not operating the bus services that they are paid to operate.

Stephen15

liger wrote: »

What about when the problem starts in the Barn or Cork street area, should they just cancel the buses? There was a high number of used needles being left on buses and it was tracked back to this area. Bypassing areas won't solve anything and only punishes decent people who use the service.

I'd be very interested to see exact numbers for incidents recorded, are we talking 5 times a day 7 days a week? once every couple of days. Are these confirmed incidents or some drivers that want to make the rest of their shift handy ? don't say it's not a possibility.

The incidents of leaving syringes on buses tend to rarer and more unpredictable than stone throwing and anti social behaviour. I have heard of syringe incidents on routes like the 39a, 46a and 66b which wouldn't be generally assoicated with anti social behaviour.

Stone throwing tends to happen in housing estates/residential areas where the buses have no where to go just keep getting pelted and it will more than likely happen again and again when the next bus goes through the area. Routes like the 13, 27, 40, 77a and 79/a are hit with anti social behaviour on a regular basis while the rest of the DB network generally runs fine.

brokenarms

All called off now. I guess the Garda have come to some sort of arrangement to keep the show on the road.


The withdrawal of bus services from West Tallaght has been called off by unions, following an emergency meeting with Dublin Bus on this morning (Friday)

http://www.echo.ie/news/article/withdrawal-of-bus-services-from-west-tallaght-has-been-called-off

john boye

One pet peeve of mine in all this is the widespread use of the "anti-social behaviour" term for stone-throwing etc when it's quite clearly criminal behaviour.