Train prices gone crazy

unkel

Last week I was in Heuston station, Dublin and I asked at the desk for a one way ticket second class for my little girl and myself to Cork. It was Monday just after lunchtime, so not peak time at all. €95. I know it is cheaper when you book online several days in advance, but that price is just absurd

A similar trip in the Netherlands (where trains are far from cheap) is €28. Even in the UK where train costs are notoriously high, you wouldn't pay €95 for a 250km trip

Why is the full price so expensive? A quick google tells me that an experienced train driver has a salary of €65k, nearly twice the median Irish salary. In the Netherlands (where salaries are broadly similar to Ireland), it's not much more than half that

Looks like wage inflation has gone mad here? Surely these ticket prices (wages) are unsustainable?

wench

It's the one way trips where they really get you.

Just to note, you don't have to book days ahead anymore, today's 3pm departure can currently be bought online for €55 for an adult and child.

JCX BXC

I check a fare from Ennis to Heuston a few days ago at the ticket machine at the station.

€63.10! I nearly fell over! Who in their right mind would pay that instead of walking a few meters and waiting for the bus?

eeguy

JCX BXC wrote: »

I check a fare from Ennis to Heuston a few days ago at the ticket machine at the station.

€63.10! I nearly fell over! Who in their right mind would pay that instead of walking a few meters and waiting for the bus?

Who knows. It would cost the guts of €80 if I wanted to book a return train from Cork to Heuston today. Plus the cost of the Luas to get into the city centre.
The aircoach would cost me €24 return. €30 if I needed to get dropped to the airport.
No difference in speed really. The train is more comfy, but it's not €50 more comfy.

devnull

JCX BXC wrote: »

I check a fare from Ennis to Heuston a few days ago at the ticket machine at the station.

€63.10! I nearly fell over! Who in their right mind would pay that instead of walking a few meters and waiting for the bus?

But it's all about yield management at the end of the day, if you buy a ticket from the train station on the day it can be used on any train, if you buy one for a discounted price you are more restricted and the trains with the most free seats will be the ones with the cheapest fares.

It's the same model as airlines, book a ticket for a fixed flight and you can save money, if you want to buy a flexibile ticket the price will increase a lot.

The aircoach would cost me €24 return. €30 if I needed to get dropped to the airport.

Can get it €20 return to Dublin City or €27 to Dublin Airport if you book far enough ahead.

JCX BXC

devnull wrote: »

But it's all about yield management at the end of the day, if you buy a ticket from the train station on the day it can be used on any train, if you buy one for a discounted price you are more restricted and the trains with the most free seats will be the ones with the cheapest fares.

It's the same model as airlines, book a ticket for a fixed flight and you can save money, if you want to buy a flexibile ticket the price will increase a lot.
.

You can buy a flexible ticket online for €36, much cheaper than €61.

The difference between air transport and train transport is that you have a different option with train transport, a bus, most of the time which is always the same price.

You don't have alternate options with air, most of the time at least.

unkel

devnull wrote: »

It's the same model as airlines, book a ticket for a fixed flight and you can save money, if you want to buy a flexibile ticket the price will increase a lot.

I didn't want or need a flexible ticket. I tried online buying when I was at Heuston, as I was taken aback by the price. But the online price was the same at that stage (full fare)

And of course there is yield pricing, but the Irish rail prices are extortionate. The most I have paid for a return flight to the Netherlands in the last 10 years was €200, as it was an emergency and I needed to fly straight away. Expensive, but not extortionate. Average price about €70 including all charges for a return flight.

ED E

Dont worry, IR will collapse soon.

bk

devnull wrote: »

But it's all about yield management at the end of the day, if you buy a ticket from the train station on the day it can be used on any train, if you buy one for a discounted price you are more restricted and the trains with the most free seats will be the ones with the cheapest fares.

It's the same model as airlines, book a ticket for a fixed flight and you can save money, if you want to buy a flexibile ticket the price will increase a lot.

Yield management falls apart when you can walk out of the station and jump on a bus for 1/4 the price and pretty much same journey time. Nevermind the car which unkel has some great options

Yield management only works when your service is massively over booked. That certainly isn't the case for IR. Personally I think they need to ditch the idea and go for a more dutch approach, make it cheap and easy and pack them in.

howiya

I take the aircoach if going all the way to Cork but I've had reason to use the train line a few times lately and mostly unexpected. There's no alternative bus that I know of. €50 ish for an open return. I don't think its extortionate it. Would I like it to be cheaper? Yes but extortionate I don't agree

LeinsterDub

devnull wrote: »

But it's all about yield management at the end of the day

I think we had this conversation before and agreed you only need to manage yield if you have yield to manage in the first place. Trains are running practically empty.

devnull

JCX BXC wrote: »

You can buy a flexible ticket online for €36, much cheaper than €61.

But this isn't an option on the day of travel.

The difference between air transport and train transport is that you have a different option with train transport, a bus, most of the time which is always the same price. You don't have alternate options with air, most of the time at least.

Go look at the prices where one operator has a monopoly and see what happens to the prices when they get some competition, you will find many more tiers of pricing are added when there is competition in any market.

And of course there is yield pricing, but the Irish rail prices are extortionate. The most I have paid for a return flight to the Netherlands in the last 10 years was €200, as it was an emergency and I needed to fly straight away. Expensive, but not extortionate. Average price about €70 including all charges for a return flight.

I paid €150 for a flight once on Aer Lingus but that was an emergency too, I think there is an argument to allow online prices until a few hours before departure when there are certain number of seats free, the UK has started doing this recently as well.

bk wrote: »

Yield management falls apart when you can walk out of the station and jump on a bus for 1/4 the price and pretty much same journey time. Nevermind the car which unkel has some great options

Yield management only works when your service is massively over booked. That certainly isn't the case for IR. Personally I think they need to ditch the idea and go for a more dutch approach, make it cheap and easy and pack them in.

But you have to get a balance. Maximising passenger numbers never maximises revenue because there is a tipping point in all pricing where the extra revenue that is brought in by extra passengers is less than the revenue lost to existing passengers who are now paying less than they were before. It's a question of getting that balance right.

FishOnABike

I doubt the driver's salaries are the largest part of your €95 fare. Divide it by the number of journeys a driver makes in a year and it would take no more than a handful of passengers per train to cover the wages cost.

The cost of maintaining the infrastructure and rolling stock would be a for more significant cost.

bk

devnull wrote: »

But you have to get a balance. Maximising passenger numbers never maximises revenue because there is a tipping point in all pricing where the extra revenue that is brought in by extra passengers is less than the revenue lost to existing passengers who are now paying less than they were before. It's a question of getting that balance right.

Sure, but I don't see any evidence that IR is anywhere near that point. IR's problem is that on many of these lines they aren't bringing in anywhere near enough passengers for the given high fixed capital and running costs.

I'd also argue that IR's approach left the market wind open for the private coach operators to step in and massively undercut IR and win business from them.

You can see that in the Netherlands, private coach operators barely exist, because the train is so cheap, it doesn't leave any room for private coaches to underprice them

LeinsterDub

devnull wrote: »

But you have to get a balance. Maximising passenger numbers never maximises revenue because there is a tipping point in all pricing where the extra revenue that is brought in by extra passengers is less than the revenue lost to existing passengers who are now paying less than they were before. It's a question of getting that balance right.

Well minimising passengers numbers certainly isn't working.

Hey government are trains are like cow wagons. Standing room only. Look at the public service we are providing any chance you could pick up the short fall? Thanks ÍE

unkel

bk wrote: »

in the Netherlands, private coach operators barely exist, because the train is so cheap, it doesn't leave any room for private coaches to underprice them

Train in the Netherlands is also far quicker than private car or coaches. And people might not know this but in NL all train stations are bang in the middle of the city centres. That's a huge benefit compared to Ireland where the trains only stop long distances (barely walkable with luggage) from the city centres, which is ridiculous (but Ireland is not alone in this).

Eindhoven to Rotterdam by train is 1 hour exactly (115km) peak and off-peak with about 2 or 3 stops in between. It would take at least 1:30 hour in a car between the city centres off-peak. Well over 2 hours peak. And then there is finding parking and parking charges...

Just looked up and a single adult train ticket today from Dublin to Cork is €65, for tomorrow that would be €39 and for 2 days from now a more reasonable €22 (still far more expensive than a bus that, as others mentioned, is hardly any slower - I think 3 hours vs 2.5 hours for the train I was in)

Those €65 and €39 have put me right off. I rarely travel by train in Ireland, but from now on I never will unless I know well enough up front to buy a cheaper ticket. Surely this business model is not sustainable. BTW train was no more than 10%-15% full on the way over to Cork. On what must be the busiest intercity train in the country. Other routes must be a lot less occupied again. This can not be sustainable.

Pixel Eater

Just to play devil's advocate: I recently got a train from Heuston to Waterford on a Friday evening, booked only the day before for €15. Then a return journey from Cork for only €25. In each case it was cheaper and quicker than the bus.

But I agree some of the prices are simply absurd. Maybe they could charge a bit bit extra, capped at, say €20, over the base price for seats where demand is high.

eeguy

devnull wrote: »

But it's all about yield management at the end of the day, if you buy a ticket from the train station on the day it can be used on any train, if you buy one for a discounted price you are more restricted and the trains with the most free seats will be the ones with the cheapest fares.

It's the same model as airlines, book a ticket for a fixed flight and you can save money, if you want to buy a flexibile ticket the price will increase a lot.

Can get it €20 return to Dublin City or €27 to Dublin Airport if you book far enough ahead.

You shouldn't need yield management on a train line. They should be able to roughly predict numbers and add carriages accordingly.
Or add extra trains in exceptional circumstances, like matches and concerts.

You're not crossing borders and customs barriers, why make things more complicated, expensive and inconvenient than they need to be.

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate: I recently got a train from Heuston to Waterford on a Friday evening, booked only the day before for €15. Then a return journey from Cork for only €25. In each case it was cheaper and quicker than the bus.

That's very cheap. I can't get a return from Dub to Cork for less than 40 and that's booking 2 weeks in advance. The bus is €10 from Waterford to Dublin City Centre one way according to this: http://www.dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/M9-waterford-kilkenny-dublin-bus.php#fareinfo

JCX BXC

The pricing just seems to have little logic behind it.

A commuter ticket from Ennis to Galway for a month, let's assume you use it 22/30 days a month (quite generous) that costs €415.

Buy day returns at the station, for 22 days a month, it costs €330.

Where's the logic in that?

You could easily pay €95 in the UK for a 250km journey for two people, easily. It costs £54 for two people to get from Paddington to Heathrow on the Heathrow Express if you buy your ticket on-board for example. Journey is about 1/10th of the distance from Dublin to Cork.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

When I lived in Tralee, I remember paying €88 for a day return to Dublin. It would actually have been cheaper to fly from Farranfore.

devnull

Kaiden Puny Parrot wrote: »

You could easily pay €95 in the UK for a 250km journey for two people, easily. It costs £54 for two people to get from Paddington to Heathrow on the Heathrow Express if you buy your ticket on-board for example. Journey is about 1/10th of the distance from Dublin to Cork.

Indeed but Heathrow Express is basically what is a luxury service aimed at the middle class and the business community. It's a hideously expensive service for sure for the distance and price of it, but people still use it and quite a lot of people at that so there is clearly demand from some parts of society.

Personally I'd use the Tube or Heathrow Connect.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Kaiden Puny Parrot wrote: »

You could easily pay €95 in the UK for a 250km journey for two people, easily. .

Im not sure of the distance, but last time I got a train from London to Manchester it was £110.

Sabre0001

Haven't travelled by train in a long time because of the prices, but booked a journey from Cork to Dub and was pleasantly surprised - €20. Now, that's booked several weeks in advance and at the Low Fare option...but still decent. May have to take a look at train option more frequently, but only if I'm sure well in advance of when I want to travel.

devnull

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Im not sure of the distance, but last time I got a train from London to Manchester it was £110.

Cheapest I can see for today is £142 peak £83 off peak and £38 late night.

ED E

Dont know why they interview Dermot OLeary, broken record playing the victim 24/7.
http://pca.st/le2l

bk

unkel wrote: »

Those €65 and €39 have put me right off. I rarely travel by train in Ireland, but from now on I never will unless I know well enough up front to buy a cheaper ticket. Surely this business model is not sustainable. BTW train was no more than 10%-15% full on the way over to Cork. On what must be the busiest intercity train in the country. Other routes must be a lot less occupied again. This can not be sustainable.

Yup, and now you know why I've said when I buy an EV, I want it to have the range to make it to Cork. As it is I only use GoBE/Aircoach to Cork since they started, after years of taking the train. 1/4th of the cost, almost as fast and comfortable.

Rail is pricing itself right out of the market IMO.

BTW I've taken rail in The Netherlands and they have it spot on, fast, cheap and easy to use. It isn't too fancy, no reserved seat in second class, you might even have to stand it is so busy and if I remember correctly the toilets were pretty terrible. However you could just walk up on the day and buy a ticket for cheap and just jump on and it quickly got you to your destination.

It didn't have airs about itself like IR do with intercity. It is more like a very fast bus service. Cheap, fast, mast transit, it is what rail should be.

unkel

ED E wrote: »

Dont know why they interview Dermot OLeary

We don't need Dermot O'Leary for the trains, we need Michael O'Leary :cool:

Before Ryanair I once paid £600 one way Dublin to Amsterdam with Aer Lingus (booked weeks in advance). Since then I typically pay €70 return with Ryanair, sometimes cheaper and rarely over €100.

bk

devnull wrote: »

Indeed but Heathrow Express is basically what is a luxury service aimed at the middle class and the business community. It's a hideously expensive service for sure for the distance and price of it, but people still use it and quite a lot of people at that so there is clearly demand from some parts of society.

Personally I'd use the Tube or Heathrow Connect.

It is mostly people on business trips who can expense it, so no skin off their noise.

IR first class gets a little of that too, but less of those folks around in general.

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Haven't travelled by train in a long time because of the prices, but booked a journey from Cork to Dub and was pleasantly surprised - €20. Now, that's booked several weeks in advance and at the Low Fare option...but still decent. May have to take a look at train option more frequently, but only if I'm sure well in advance of when I want to travel.

One way I assume? I think the cheapest return is €40

devnull

devnull wrote: »

Indeed but Heathrow Express is basically what is a luxury service aimed at the middle class and the business community. It's a hideously expensive service for sure for the distance and price of it, but people still use it and quite a lot of people at that so there is clearly demand from some parts of society.

Personally I'd use the Tube or Heathrow Connect.

Business travellers whose employers are paying for it would make up a huge chunk of its fares I would guess, it's the only circumstance I've ever used it in anyway.

Sabre0001

bk wrote: »

One way I assume? I think the cheapest return is €40

Yep, one way. If it was return, I'd be on the train all the time

Pixel Eater

eeguy wrote: »

That's very cheap. I can't get a return from Dub to Cork for less than 40 and that's booking 2 weeks in advance. The bus is €10 from Waterford to Dublin City Centre one way according to this: http://www.dublincoach.ie/timetables-fares/M9-waterford-kilkenny-dublin-bus.php#fareinfo

But €40 isn't too bad for Cork, wouldn't want to pay much more though. That tenner to Waterford is very good still I was willing to pay an extra fiver for the comfort and (slightly) faster trip.

bk wrote: »

BTW I've taken rail in The Netherlands and they have it spot on, fast, cheap and easy to use. It isn't too fancy, no reserved seat in second class, you might even have to stand it is so busy and if I remember correctly the toilets were pretty terrible. However you could just walk up on the day and buy a ticket for cheap and just jump on and it quickly got you to your destination.

It didn't have airs about itself like IR do with intercity. It is more like a very fast bus service. Cheap, fast, mast transit, it is what rail should be.

The differences is that the Netherlands is a very densely populated and urban country and railways need this critical mass to be viable. The large amount of urban sprawl and one-off housing in Ireland is really a big hindrance to having a profitable, sustainable rail network.

devnull

unkel wrote: »

We don't need Dermot O'Leary for the trains, we need Michael O'Leary :cool:

Before Ryanair I once paid £600 one way Dublin to Amsterdam with Aer Lingus (booked weeks in advance). Since then I typically pay €70 return with Ryanair, sometimes cheaper and rarely over €100.

A former colleague of mine used to travel to Warsaw and couldn't find a single fare below €100 with Aer Lingus when they had a monopoly on that route so used to fly to another city for €25 with Ryanair and then get a bus/train to Warsaw from there and saved herself a packet each time she flew there.

At the same time Aer Lingus were starting fares at €45 to Krakow where they did have competition. She complained to Aer Lingus about exploiting their position and was written a very nice email back that told her that the airport charges were so high that the fares could not be any lower and she should take up her issue with the authorities in Poland.

Ryanair started flying to Warsaw to the secondary airport a few months later and suddenly Aer Lingus were able to reduce flights to €40 despite the fact that a few weeks previously the airport fees were increased, the same ones that were already too high and the reason for the €100 fares in the first place. This was years ago. Even today flights on that route on AL start at €42.

Thing is, whatever about the prices, the rail system in this country really needs an overhaul in many areas to really compete.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Im not sure of the distance, but last time I got a train from London to Manchester it was £110.

I think that's over 300km as opposed to the 250km from Dublin to Cork. So it is a longer trip but not hugely so.

Another sneaky thing they've done is alter the off peak hours on the Dublin-Dundalk route. It used to be off peak after 9.30am Mon-Sat (all day Sunday). Now its 10am-3.30pm and again after 7pm. Sundays stays the same. IR screwing the customer yet again. Saturday should be off peak all day too.

pawrick

Generally when I've a reason to use public transport these days it's a spur of the moment decision if the weather is good for an outing so at best i'm looking one day in advance for bookings. The increased costs doing it this way put people like me off day trips and push me towards using my car instead.

bk

Pixel Eater wrote: »

But €40 isn't too bad for Cork, wouldn't want to pay much more though.

I'd agree that €40 would be reasonable if it was the walk up fare. But to get that fare you have to book 4 weeks in advance. Try and book even a few days in advance and you are paying €80!

You can book GoBE 1 hour in advance at €23 (and another 10% off if you go regularly). And I have to say, honestly I find the coach very comfortable too. With wifi and power the trip really flies by.

unkel

bk wrote: »

I'd agree that €40 would be reasonable if it was the walk up fare. But to get that fare you have to book 4 weeks in advance. Try and book even a few days in advance and you are paying €80!

Looks like the cheapest fares are available 2 days in advance.

unkel

Pixel Eater wrote: »

The differences is that the Netherlands is a very densely populated and urban country and railways need this critical mass to be viable. The large amount of urban sprawl and one-off housing in Ireland is really a big hindrance to having a profitable, sustainable rail network.

Yes this is true. Perhaps we should just suspend the Irish rail network and only keep commuter trains?

Commercial bus lines seem more suitable for intercity travelling on public transport in this country. And are obviously a lot cheaper. When I looked last week I saw prices from €10-€17 one way Dublin to Cork

ED E

Close the majority of the lines but protect them. Let the population grown and centralize. Then in 2050 we can start spooling them back up without CPOs and build Hyperloops.

bk

unkel wrote: »

Looks like the cheapest fares are available 2 days in advance.

Fair enough seems like it has improved! works out at €46 return.

I'd personally still take the coach and save the €25, doing the trip every 2nd week, that would quickly add up, but not too bad if you doing a once a year trip. Also I usually don't know if I'm heading down until the day. So that would quickly jump up to €80, would still be €23 (€20.70) on GoBE.

Fair play though, looks like progress. It use to be the case that if you booked two weeks in advance it was €80, this is much more reasonable.

Pixel Eater

unkel wrote: »

Yes this is true. Perhaps we should just suspend the Irish rail network and only keep commuter trains?

Commercial bus lines seem more suitable for intercity travelling on public transport in this country. And are obviously a lot cheaper. When I looked last week I saw prices from €10-€17 one way Dublin to Cork

Radical but possibly, with the exception of the Belfast and Cork routes to/from Dublin maybe. It's hard to compete with the prices of buses.

eeguy

Do you have to stick to your time slot if you book the train? Say if I book a 1pm trip to Cork, could I rock up at 2 or 3 with the same ticket?

bk

eeguy wrote: »

Do you have to stick to your time slot if you book the train? Say if I book a 1pm trip to Cork, could I rock up at 2 or 3 with the same ticket?

You have to stick to the time slot unless you pay for a lot more expensive "flexible" ticket.

eeguy

eeguy wrote: »

Do you have to stick to your time slot if you book the train? Say if I book a 1pm trip to Cork, could I rock up at 2 or 3 with the same ticket?

There are different types of tickets. Some are for a specific service only, some are flexible.

end of the road

unkel wrote: »

We don't need Dermot O'Leary for the trains, we need Michael O'Leary

Before Ryanair I once paid £600 one way Dublin to Amsterdam with Aer Lingus (booked weeks in advance). Since then I typically pay €70 return with Ryanair, sometimes cheaper and rarely over €100.

there is not a lot Michael O'Leary can do. ryanair levels of fares on trains as fantastic as they would be could probably never happen in ireland. we can't really compare the air industry to the rail industry IMO. they may share some characteristics but there are others which are different.
i do believe prices can come down from what they are but along with that, the train needs to offer a lot more then it does.

unkel wrote: »

Perhaps we should just suspend the Irish rail network and only keep commuter trains?

the vast majority of the lines actually have commuter traffic, intercity is only really a brand. however commuter traffic does need more from their train service then a seat.
all you would do by suspending the railway is remove a public transport option from people and send them to the car, and you could potentially put more of it in danger as there are passengers who do transfer between services. how many are unknown, but i wouldn't be surprised if it's a lot more then we would think.
99% of the railway in this country has the numbers but it is going to have to charge more reasonable fares and offer something more for the money to attract greater usership. it can be done but it is going to need the will to do it and the support of government, NTA, irish rail, and other stakeholders.

unkel wrote: »

Commercial bus lines seem more suitable for intercity travelling on public transport in this country.

for those who use them yes. for those who don't and have no intention of ever doing so as busses will never meet their needs, they aren't and never will be suitable. so having them as the only public transport option won't work. for the most part there is room for both rail and road but the railway has to up it's game big time.

unkel wrote: »

And are obviously a lot cheaper. When I looked last week I saw prices from €10-€17 one way Dublin to Cork

there is no doubt they are cheaper, but it would be interesting to see how cheap they would be if they had to run on dedicated roads, and fully fund that infrastructure. the same as rail has to effectively do. they are lucky that they have cars and other vehicles to share the infrastructure with but that infrastructure does ultimately cost big bucks, especially when it needs constant expansion which roads tend to need over all.

bk

end of the road wrote: »

there is no doubt they are cheaper, but it would be interesting to see how cheap they would be if they had to run on dedicated roads, and fully fund that infrastructure. the same as rail has to effectively do. they are lucky that they have cars and other vehicles to share the infrastructure with but that infrastructure does ultimately cost big bucks, especially when it needs constant expansion which roads tend to need over all.

What you say above is true, but also pretty pointless.

The truth is roads are far more important then rail. Like it or not (and I don't) roads are much more important then rail (outside of congested core city centers, then it flips). Rail has to justify itself running beside the road.

The government doesn't care less about road versus rail, they, rightfully just care about getting people from a to b in the quickest and cheapest way possible.

The government having spent 8 billion on our intercity motorways, needed as 99% of freight moves by road and most people travel by car. So then allowing coaches to make use of that resource makes total sense.

Rail needs to justify it's existence and subsidy in parallel to these roads. No point in talking about what ifs like this. Your average commuter doesn't care and neither does the government.

end of the road

i would disagree the government doesn't care. they do. they have been playing politics with transport for decades. they do believe in road over rail and road vs rail.
every other country sees their rail network as part of the infrastructure of the country. we don't. we need to grow up and do so and invest in it, a road only solution is not going to work, be sustainible or cost effective.
the commuters who use the rail services very much do care about their survival and they won't be forced into using services that don't meet their needs, IE bus services. the bus services are there if people want them but people will not be forced to use them, especially by having the option that does meet their needs removed.
rail itself, operator asside, has justified the money it gets. IE'S failings do not mean rail itself is the problem, it's far from the problem.

bk

end of the road wrote: »

every other country sees their rail network as part of the infrastructure of the country. we don't. we need to grow up and do so and invest in it, a road only solution is not going to work, be sustainible or cost effective.

Hold on their a second, over the last few years the government has invested 1.5 billion building Luas, 800 million on new trains for IR, 100 million opening the iditotic WRC and 100 million+ on various other IR safety projects, etc.

And now they are gearing up to spend 2+ billion on Metro North.

And you don't think they take rail seriously!

The government absolutely see rail as an important part of our infrastructure. But the part of it that makes financial sense. The city and commuter mass transit part.

The rest is absolutely not at all justifying itself versus road.

JCX BXC

bk wrote: »

100 million opening the iditotic WRC

Someone doesn't like the whest!

It's was politically motivated and shouldn't have happened, but it's not the worst failure, €43ish Subsidy per passenger isn't exactly Ballybrophys €780.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

Hold on their a second, over the last few years the government has invested 1.5 billion building Luas, 800 million on new trains for IR, 100 million opening the iditotic WRC and 100 million+ on various other IR safety projects, etc.

And now they are gearing up to spend 2+ billion on Metro North.

And you don't think they take rail seriously!

The government absolutely see rail as an important part of our infrastructure. But the part of it that makes financial sense. The city and commuter mass transit part.

The rest is absolutely not at all justifying itself versus road.

it is justifying itself. 99% of the rail network is viable.
ennis athenry shouldn't have been reopened but i do believe through galway limerick journeys are reasonable now.
ballybroaphy has been beyond saving for years we all know that due to incompetents which CIE should never have been able to get away with but they did.
limerick junction waterford can still be brought back from the brink and be improved, i believe the infrastructure has mostly been renewed.
rosslare goarey itself has reasonable numbers using the services with good loadings and there are more potential users for the taking but the train will have to bother to compete in some way. if it can't be speed it can be something else.
apart from ballybroaphy and that is even questionable given it's irish rail, closing any more rail won't bring any benefits or save anything, we will be back here again also with more for the chop.