Anti-vaxxers

dense

B0jangles wrote: »

If what the poster claimed is actually true, it demonstrates that the woman in question has sex with at least 5 different people!!!, and that somehow makes her a bad role model for other women.

I don't know if it's true or not. But.

Do you think you would advise your daughter to have 8 children by 8 different fathers?



Would 4 be okay?



Just checking.

ancapailldorcha

xzanti wrote: »

Are you referring to my post?

Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't having a pop at you.

xzanti

Just to clarify my position. I will reiterate that I vaccinate.

In fact I recently paid out of my own pocket (380.00) to vaccinate my 7 year old against Meningitis B, because it was not part of his infant schedule when he was born.

My issue is with the condescending undertones used in threads like these.

The word "hun" seems to be synonymous with being a bit stupid, and I see it over and over. It seems to be a 'go to' for some people's arguments.

PlaneSpeeking

dense wrote: »

I don't know if it's true or not. But.

Do you think you would advise your daughter to have 8 children by 8 different fathers?



Would 4 be okay?



Just checking.

Given that the HPV virus is carried primarily in the male sex organ and earlier, and more frequent sex with multiple partners greatly increases the risk of cervical cancer - I doubt anyone is criticising the woman based on morality per se.

ancapailldorcha

xzanti wrote: »

Just to clarify my position. I will reiterate that I vaccinate.

In fact I recently paid out of my own pocket (380.00) to vaccinate my 7 year old against Meningitis B, because it was not part of his infant schedule when he was born.

My issue is with the condescending undertones used in threads like these.

The word "hun" seems to be synonymous with being a bit stupid, and I see it over and over. It seems to be a 'go to' for some people's arguments.

Do you have no issue with the anti-vaccine posters on this thread?

VinLieger

B0jangles wrote: »

If what the poster claimed is actually true, it demonstrates that the woman in question has sex with at least 5 different people!!!, and that somehow makes her a bad role model for other women.

No she chose to not use a condom with 5 different men, that we know of, thats makes her a bad role model in that respect.

Shes still a great role model as she stood up and fought the system when it let her down.

B0jangles wrote: »

She did her best to safeguard her own health and to take care of her children.

By choosing to not use a condom she did not do her best to safeguard herself, she vastly increased her chances of catching any number of STI's including HPV which we do not know for certain but may have been what casued her cervical cancer.

B0jangles wrote: »

When she found out just how appallingly she had been let down by services she was told she could trust, she fought to the end to keep looking after her children and to expose the failings in the service so that other women wouldn't die like she did.

Yes she was let down by the services but that still doesnt remove the fact she chose to not use condoms increasing her risk of catching HPV.

B0jangles wrote: »

But this is Ireland, unless you're as pure and unsullied as Mary herself, you're no better than you should be, eh?

Nope you can have sex with as many men as you want but use a f*cking condom, this isnt slut shaming no matter how much you are gonna try paint it as such.

xzanti

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Do you have no issue with the anti-vaccine posters on this thread?

I think there is a big difference between a person with a clear agenda, and a concerned parent with questions and worries. Carol25 comes across to me as the latter. Hence why I came onto the thread to refer to her post, as opposed to certain others.

ancapailldorcha

xzanti wrote: »

I think there is a big difference between a person with a clear agenda, and a concerned parent with questions and worries. Carol25 comes across to me as the latter. Hence why I came onto the thread to refer to her post, as opposed to certain others.

I was going to respond to that post but got caught up in other things.

I was referring to posters like Graces7 and dr brown who have posted nothing more than soundbytes and links to blogs. This isn't my first vaccine thread and it becomes wearying seeing the same non-arguments appear again and again.

VicMackey1

VinLieger wrote: »

No she chose to not use a condom with 5 different men, that we know of, thats makes her a bad role model in that respect.

How do we know this is factually true? Maybe it was published somewhere but I doubt it.

PlaneSpeeking

VinLieger wrote: »

No she chose to not use a condom with 5 different men, that we know of, thats makes her a bad role model in that respect.

Shes still a great role model as she stood up and fought the system when it let her down.



By choosing to not use a condom she did not do her best to safeguard herself, she vastly increased her chances of catching any number of STI's including HPV which we do not know for certain but may have been what casued her cervical cancer.



Yes she was let down by the services but that still doesnt remove the fact she chose to not use condoms increasing her risk of catching HPV.



Nope you can have sex with as many men as you want but use a f*cking condom, this isnt slut shaming no matter how much you are gonna try paint it as such.

You should write the sexual health manual for young people - currently it seems it's "f**k who you like, it's empowering!"

I'm a trip and fall and I'm 50 - and I recall the "use a condom" ads from 35 years ago regarding HIV and AIDS, why are younger people seemingly so blase about their health ?

ancapailldorcha

Carol25 wrote: »

I’m not anti vaccine or pro vaccine. I’m unsure as to who to trust. Clearly the Big Pharmaceutical giants have an agenda and keep rolling out vaccine after vaccine...profit after profit.

Not inaccurrate but very strict regulation and monitoring by regulatory bodies mean that nothing is simply "rolled out". Then there are independent studies and the like.

Carol25 wrote: »

I also don’t like the way there is ZERO support if someone does genuinely have a bad reaction to a vaccine.

Can you clarify "Zero support?" Hasn't the state issued payouts for the Pandemrix vaccine?

Carol25 wrote: »

I’ve had to sign the forms before vaccinating my sons which basically absolves everyone of any responsibility for what they’re injecting into your baby/child...why is this if they’re so convinced it’s safe?
However I do understand the importance of vaccines and have gotten many over the years due to travel, etc. They play a hugely important part in keeping dangerous incurable diseases eradicated. I’m just not comfortable with some comments on here basically saying ‘so what if it affects some children/people if it protects most’. I don’t think that’s good enough.

Simple. Liability. I used to work in clinical trials where EVERY LITTLE THING is recorded. If someone slips on a spill on the floor then expect dizziness, vertigo and the like to be listed as side effects. I am exaggerating but not by much.

A litigious culture, especially in the US from which many of these firms originate means that covering one's posterior is essential for the big boys whereas a single lawsuit can destory a small firm. People can complain about Big Pharma but when it's that cutthroat, it's no surprise that small firms let themselves be bought out.

Hope this helps.

dense

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Given that the HPV virus is carried primarily in the male sex organ and earlier, and more frequent sex with multiple partners greatly increases the risk of cervical cancer - I doubt anyone is criticising the woman based on morality per se.

I'm generalising here because I don't know whether the specifics in this case are true, so I'm talking about society in general and it's perception of what is current "role model" behaviour and what is not.



So in general we need to accept that risky behaviour has consequences.



We need to teach that to girls and boys. We cannot pretend that risky behaviour and poor choices will have good consequences.



We are not doing that today because if we do it we are then swiftly accused of "victim blaming".



Do you see lone female parent families consisting of children from a multitude of different fathers as a step forward for society?


Unless you can present a very good reason to the contrary, it shouldn't be encouraged or presented as something to aspire to.

dense

VinLieger wrote: »

No she chose to not use a condom with 5 different men, that we know of, thats makes her a bad role model in that respect.

How do you actually "know" those details?
About choosing not to use condoms.

Maybe one failed?

VicMackey1

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Can you clarify "Zero support?" Hasn't the state issued payouts for the Pandemrix vaccine?

Medical cards have been provided for those affected. The HSE is also covering expenses for travel and related medical costs. No damages have been paid out yet and if they ever will be paid, it will be through the courts.

VinLieger

dense wrote: »

How do you actually "know" those details?
About choosing not to use condoms.

Maybe one failed?

We can assume she didn't use them as the odds of more than 1 failing are pretty high to begin with and then add onto that the odds of each of those failing condoms being timed just right that she then got pregnant, the odds are heading towards lottery numbers for that happening 5 times.

Reg'stoy

I tend to view anti-vaxxers as akin to someone whose gas boiler is in need of repair.

They deliberately ignore the advice of someone who has spent time in training to carry out this very job, because that person works for one of the gas companies or is in cahoots with them. These people who work for 'big gas' only have the interest of themselves and 'big gas' at heart and are simply out to separate you from your hard earned money or that they will tamper with your boiler and slowly poison you; because dead customers are good for profits

No; our anti 'big gas' guy goes onto facebook and finds a video of Jimmy who has life experience rather than actual experience of gas boiler repair, he advises you to fit a magnet on the inlet gas line and simply open your windows so the natural healing abilities of air can get to work. That tiredness you now feel, is simply your body releasing 'energy' to fix the boiler; so just lie down as close to your boiler as possible and think what eyeshadow best matches my now blue lips.

Oh; how to spot anti vaxxers.
They will at one stage or indeed have already said to a Garda that "you're not wearing your cap, plus I am only 'traveling' and so don't need a licence"
They have definitely said "we need an Irish donald trump"
They must climb Croagh Patrick barefoot, fueled only by black tea and dry bread at least once in their lives.

PlaneSpeeking

Reg'stoy wrote: »

I tend to view anti-vaxxers as akin to someone whose gas boiler is in need of repair.

They deliberately ignore the advice of someone who has spent time in training to carry out this very job, because that person works for one of the gas companies or is in cahoots with them. These people who work for 'big gas' only have the interest of themselves and 'big gas' at heart and are simply out to separate you from your hard earned money or that they will tamper with your boiler and slowly poison you; because dead customers are good for profits

No; our anti 'big gas' guy goes onto facebook and finds a video of Jimmy who has life experience rather than actual experience of gas boiler repair, he advises you to fit a magnet on the inlet gas line and simply open your windows so the natural healing abilities of air can get to work. That tiredness you now feel, is simply your body releasing 'energy' to fix the boiler; so just lie down as close to your boiler as possible and think what eyeshadow best matches my now blue lips.

Oh; how to spot anti vaxxers.
They will at one stage or indeed have already said to a Garda that "you're not wearing your cap, plus I am only 'traveling' and so don't need a licence"
They have definitely said "we need an Irish donald trump"
They must climb Croagh Patrick barefoot, fueled only by black tea and dry bread at least once in their lives.

You've met my West Cork auntie clearly.

Guy:Incognito

xzanti wrote: »

And on the other hand, if someone questions the safety of vaccines they're branded an idiot? If a parent comments that their child was 'different' after their vaccines they're told "no hun, it was just bad timing, don't be an eejit, your child was born that way". How the fcuk do you know that? Do you live with that child?

.

How do we know that? Because studies are done. Those studies showed the same rate for the conditions the girls have whether they are vaccinated or not.

So a mother who "believes" her daughter is different and her condition was caused by the vaccine doesn't trump science.

PlaneSpeeking

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How do we know that? Because studies are done. Those studies showed the same rate for the conditions the girls have whether they are vaccinated or not.

So a mother who "believes" her daughter is different and her condition was caused by the vaccine doesn't trump science.

Ah but did she say "well, speaking as a mum" ?

Apparently that phrase endows bollocks with magical powers.

Graces7

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How do we know that? Because studies are done. Those studies showed the same rate for the conditions the girls have whether they are vaccinated or not.

So a mother who "believes" her daughter is different and her condition was caused by the vaccine doesn't trump :eek: science.

Wrong. A mother is with her child often 24/7 and observes and knows her child is far far more reliable and sound than any science...a good doctor would listen to a mother and respect and take on board her observations.

studies are skewed if you are referring to the CFS/ME stats and stats are easily manipulated. Easy to do when a true diagnosis of M.E is one of painstaking exclusion and when the majority of medics in Ireland ignore M.E or do not believe it exists

PlaneSpeeking

Graces7 wrote: »

Wrong. A mother is with her child often 24/7 and observes and knows her child is far far more reliable and sound than any science...a good doctor would listen to a mother and respect and take on board her observations.

studies are skewed if you are referring to the CFS/ME stats and stats are easily manipulated. Easy to do when a true diagnosis of M.E is one of painstaking exclusion and when the majority of medics in Ireland ignore M.E or do not believe it exists

Chilling.

Expected but chilling.

I'll just go tell the 2000 students here that they can forget the next six years of study, internships, postgrad work and experience.

Just get laid and have a kid, that's better.

dense

VinLieger wrote: »

We can assume she didn't use them as the odds of more than 1 failing are pretty high to begin with and then add onto that the odds of each of those failing condoms being timed just right that she then got pregnant, the odds are heading towards lottery numbers for that happening 5 times.

Ok I thought there had been a public admission or something.

dense

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Chilling.

Expected but chilling.

I'll just go tell the 2000 students here that they can forget the next six years of study, internships, postgrad work and experience.

Just get laid and have a kid, that's better.

And have a handful, all with different fathers.


Apparently the position that they will then find themselves in is a role that we can model something on.

PlaneSpeeking

dense wrote: »

And have a handful, all with different fathers.


Apparently the position that they will then find themselves in is a role that we can model something on.

Katie Price or Ulrika Jonsson also leap to mind.

Not role models for any of my nieces thank you!

Guy:Incognito

Graces7 wrote: »

Wrong. A mother is with her child often 24/7 and observes and knows her child is far far more reliable and sound than any science...

Just like a mechanic wouldn't have a clue how to fix your car, only you would because you spend all day with it?

pjohnson

Thats a medical breakthrough.

Any internal organs start malfunctioning you can fix it yourself since you know it best. Not some doctor.

PlaneSpeeking

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Just like a mechanic wouldn't have a clue how to fix your car, only you would because you spend all day with it?

FYI - my dad spent 9 years with our dog, literally all day and night before we had to go to the home.

Yet when the dog needed surgery, did I take pooch to the home ?

No, oddly to a trained vet.

Genuinely where does the "mum knows best" - madness come from ?

My mother knew me inside and out but when I was sick she took me to the GP!

PlaneSpeeking

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats a medical breakthrough.

Any internal organs start malfunctioning you can fix it yourself since you know it best. Not some doctor.

Wish I'd have known that!! Could have cured my own hip problem!

Bloody quacks and their magic juju injection that worked! There's a few hundred euro I''l not get back.

VicMackey1

dense wrote: »

all with different fathers.

Where is this coming from? Did she mention it some interview or is it just gossip?

rawn

VicMackey1 wrote: »

dense wrote: »

all with different fathers.

Where is this coming from? Did she mention it some interview or is it just gossip?

Gossip/victim blaming. Discussing the sex life of a woman only just buried, it's absolutely despicable. Just when you think that anti-vaxers can't possibly sink any lower...