Parent not paying tax so cannot receive grant, please help.

Imstucklads

How's it going lads.
So I've just gone though the whole leaving cert and got my offers from cao on Monday. Well I got both my first choices but I'm not sure how to feel due to how stuck I am.
Turns out my mother (single mother of 5) hasn't been paying tax and I had no idea right up until I asked her for her details when I was applying for the grant. The result of this is that I can't apply for the Susi grant and I'm pretty much ****ed. I can't tell anyone either Incase she gets reported . We're not well off or anything (we own nothing apart from a 2005 car that's falling apart) and I really don't know what to do. I've told her to sort it out multiple times but she just won't. I can't apply as independent either until I'm 23. Is there anything I can do in this situation. I don't know where else to ask

spurious

Do you know is her income enough to require her to pay tax? Perhaps she does not come into the tax net.

Does she have a business? Its kind of hard as a PAYE worker to avoid tax.

Imstucklads

spurious wrote: »

Do you know is her income enough to require her to pay tax? Perhaps she does not come into the tax net.

Does she have a business? Its kind of hard as a PAYE worker to avoid tax.

Yep she has a business. I don't believe she has anything registered. She pays rates though.

spurious

Imstucklads wrote:

I don't know. How much would that be? She works 20 hours a week

If she is in a low paid job she could well be below the threshold. I'm not at the PC now to check the actual amount at which you pay tax.

Lots of children of unemployed people who do not pay income tax get SUSI grants and go to college. She pays lots of other taxes - VAT etc.. Do not let that stop you applying. They can only say no, but they probably won't.

spurious

If her business does not make much of a profit you might still qualify. At the least put in an application.

Pawwed Rig

For the SUSI application they will request the family income. Where self employed they have been asking for the assessment from Revenue.

As Spurious says there may not be much of a liability in getting this sorted depending on how much she earns. However if she refuses to do it then there is not much you can do.

Imstucklads

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

For the SUSI application they will request the family income. Where self employed they have been asking for the assessment from Revenue.

As Spurious says there may not be much of a liability in getting this sorted depending on how much she earns. However if she refuses to do it then there is not much you can do.

Yep the problem is that shes not registered with revenue. Her excuse was that she "doesn't know how to do all that" im so ****ing mad at her. She's being of no help to me in any way. I spent the whole summer working (registered) to try get money for college but it wouldn't be enough to even pay my contribution fees.

Bubbaclaus

This is outrageous. Breaking the law. Hope she gets caught soon.

Del2005

Imstucklads wrote: »

Yep. I hope she does. I've thought about reporting her allot since I found out.

Reporting her will only make it worse. Keep at her to regularise her business.

judeboy101

Imstucklads wrote: »

Yep. I hope she does. I've thought about reporting her allot since I found out.

If you found out she was abusing children, would you report her? No crime is victimless, be it tax dodging or sexual abuse. If you wish to avail of the help of the state via susi, you must help the state by reporting her.

Teyla Emmagan

judeboy101 wrote:

If you wish to avail of the help of the state via susi, you must help the state by reporting her.

I think you'll find it won't work like that and instead the OP will find himself out on his ass.

judeboy101

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I think you'll find it won't work like that and instead the OP will find himself out on his ass.

True, but its a cheek to ask the state for financial help via susi while condoning potential tax evasion

august12

Have you any idea what she is earning, is she claiming social welfare, if so, easy enough to get this from social welfare office, has she any property other than your main home? What business has she, should be relatively simple to contact accountant in local area and get the ball rolling, in the meantime, submit application to Susi. At least you will be in the system.

Imstucklads

august12 wrote: »

Have you any idea what she is earning, is she claiming social welfare, if so, easy enough to get this from social welfare office, has she any property other than your main home? What business has she, should be relatively simple to contact accountant in local area and get the ball rolling, in the meantime, submit application to Susi. At least you will be in the system.

No idea what she's earning. She's not receiving any social welfare either.

august12

Imstucklads wrote:

No idea what she's earning. She's not receiving any social welfare either.

Well that simplifies it even more, should be straight forward to register with revenue, a good accountant should be able to do this and she could give him/her breakdown of income/expenses for 2016 which is the year Susi will need for assessment, this grant if you are eligible covers 3000 reg. Fee and the possibility of another 3000 maintenance depending on how far your home is from college.

Imstucklads

august12 wrote: »

Well that simplifies it even more, should be straight forward to register with revenue, a good accountant should be able to do this and she could give him/her breakdown of income/expenses for 2016 which is the year Susi will need for assessment, this grant if you are eligible covers 3000 reg. Fee and the possibility of another 3000 maintenance depending on how far your home is from college.

This is what I needed. Thanks! I'll keep at her anyway.

Imstucklads

august12 wrote: »

Well that simplifies it even more, should be straight forward to register with revenue, a good accountant should be able to do this and she could give him/her breakdown of income/expenses for 2016 which is the year Susi will need for assessment, this grant if you are eligible covers 3000 reg. Fee and the possibility of another 3000 maintenance depending on how far your home is from college.

Also, wouldn't revenue want to know why she hasn't been paying tax for a couple of years? This is what she's worried of I believe

august12

Imstucklads wrote:

Also, wouldn't revenue want to know why she hasn't been paying tax for a couple of years? This is what she's worried of I believe

Check with the accountant, it may be possible to register and pay tax going forward, the issue of back tax may not arise, if she is a single parent, then she may have extra tax credits, not sure on this, any way, 6000 of a grant is not to.be sneezed at, she either pays 3000 reg fee and probably another 150 per week to keep you in college or else sort her affairs and hopefully get a grant of 6000. Is she getting maintenance from an x partner/husband, this can complicate things with grant as would need to provide separation documents and maintenance agreement. Have you a rough estimate of income?

irishgrover

Yes, reporting your mother, helping to get her potentially arrested, procecuted, maybe even jailed, is surely the best way to normalise everything and ensure getting yourself a grant...

spurious

She's better off getting everything regularised, grant or not. She may not even owe them that much.

august12

spurious wrote:

She's better off getting everything regularised, grant or not. She may not even owe them that much.

Yes, absolutely agree here, prolonging this will cause further issues down the line, as you can see now, it is preventing you accessing financial aid which you maybe entitle to and numerous other benefits, please sort as soon as possible, it will be a relief for all the family.

Your/her biggest problem might be a lack of records if she has been ignoring it.

It might be worth your while to find an accountant who could ask some questions to estimate how much work/cost might be involved to put it right.

gauchesnell

also check with your college about registering etc with just the susi reference. Requirements vary per college. You should be prevented from starting college while waiting on SUSI - again check with the requirements of the college you hope to attend

jimmycrackcorm

Imstucklads wrote:

Yep she has a business. I don't believe she has anything registered. She pays rates though.

Here does she manage to pay rates yet not be registered.

Is your father in the picture, if so can't you go via his details?

groovyg

If you can't get your grant sorted for this year, could you defer your place ?

Bandana boy

I would be talking to a credit union to borrow the fees and urgently start positioning a part time job.

You could also look at night degrees and get a full time job.

Imstucklads

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Here does she manage to pay rates yet not be registered.

Is your father in the picture, if so can't you go via his details?

He walked out on my mother and 4 brothers and sisters when I was 3. I have no contact with him what so ever. He wouldn't even know what I look like.

Imstucklads

Bandana boy wrote: »

I would be talking to a credit union to borrow the fees and urgently start positioning a part time job

I'm currently in a full time job. I'll hopefully be able to stay on there for Saturdays and Sundays weekly to make money. I don't have a credit Union account either. I'm going to open one asap though. Will they grant me a loan straight away or how does it work with them?

Sam Kade

august12 wrote: »

Check with the accountant, it may be possible to register and pay tax going forward, the issue of back tax may not arise, if she is a single parent, then she may have extra tax credits, not sure on this, any way, 6000 of a grant is not to.be sneezed at, she either pays 3000 reg fee and probably another 150 per week to keep you in college or else sort her affairs and hopefully get a grant of 6000. Is she getting maintenance from an x partner/husband, this can complicate things with grant as would need to provide separation documents and maintenance agreement. Have you a rough estimate of income?

Either way revenue will want accounts going back 6-7 years and if there was tax due they will be demanding payment.

Effects

judeboy101 wrote: »

You must help the state by reporting her.

Wow, sounds like you would be a great family member to have.
This isn't East Germany. She needs help to get her on the right track, not reporting.

Bandana boy

Imstucklads wrote: »

I'm currently in a full time job. I'll hopefully be able to stay on there for Saturdays and Sundays weekly to make money. I don't have a credit Union account either. I'm going to open one asap though. Will they grant me a loan straight away or how does it work with them?

open an account asap
Make an appointment and explain your predicament simply - Ie no need to go into your Moms tax affairs just say not eligible for grant and Mom cant afford to pay.
Small loans like this is what they exist for.

Millicent

Do you know if there are any scholarships or hardship grants run through the college? I know UCD offers funding to certain students who qualify through the UCD Foundation. Not sure about other colleges but worth ringing the student union of your particular college to make enquiries.

Sorry you're stuck in this position, OP.

Delphinium

Your mother will come under scrutiny sooner or later and it's best she gets her affairs in order. If she is paying rates she must have a business premises or industrial unit rented. Commercial leases are easy for revenue to trace.
Try to get her to face up to the reality.
Are you the eldest? This is going to be a recurring problem if the others are younger and will face the same problem.

Surely she recognises the work you must have done to gain a college place and she should not put obstacles in your way.

She will pay penalties for not making returns, irrespective of any amount of tax owed.

Imstucklads

Delphinium wrote: »

Your mother will come under scrutiny sooner or later and it's best she gets her affairs in order. If she is paying rates she must have a business premises or industrial unit rented. Commercial leases are easy for revenue to trace.
Try to get her to face up to the reality.
Are you the eldest? This is going to be a recurring problem if the others are younger and will face the same problem.

Surely she recognises the work you must have done to gain a college place and she should not put obstacles in your way.

She will pay penalties for not making returns, irrespective of any amount of tax owed.

I'm not the eldest. There are two younger than me. One is doing the leaving next year as well. I feel so cheated by my mother, I have the chance to further myself but due to her I will now have tremendous difficulty trying to take it. I'm more worried for when she does get caught. And what will happen to my younger sibling when she's prosecuted and could face jail since he isn't even 10.

And yes she's leasing a unit

sunnyt

Hi there. Depending on where you go to college you should contact the on campus/local branch of the bank affiliated with the university/college. Some offer interest free loans which may help you get started. UCD has a student hardship fund as mentioned above. I'm sure other colleges probably do too. Don't report your own mother. You're angry now and you would regret it. You sound very mature and you're obviously smart so help her do things right from here on in. It is a bit of a role reversal but being a single mam to five kids is hard. Talk to the student advisors in your college also as they might be able to help too! Good luck.

jimmycrackcorm

Imstucklads wrote:

He walked out on my mother and 4 brothers and sisters when I was 3. I have no contact with him what so ever. He wouldn't even know what I look like.

There's nothing you can do without providing the details. It would be in your mother's interest to let you enter the details and she registers her income because at some point she is going to get caught out anyway.

LollipopJimmy

Imstucklads wrote: »

I'm not the eldest. There are two younger than me. One is doing the leaving next year as well. I feel so cheated by my mother, I have the chance to further myself but due to her I will now have tremendous difficulty trying to take it. I'm more worried for when she does get caught. And what will happen to my younger sibling when she's prosecuted and could face jail since he isn't even 10.

And yes she's leasing a unit

Here, your mother is putting food on the table for a family of 5 plus herself without handouts from the state. Yes she's made errors but wind in your neck there now and catch yourself on. Help her get sorted and registered, research it and help her register the business and set herself up as a sole trader rather than threaten to report her.

rizdub

i think you are being harsh on your mother as u have no idea how difficult it is to take care of 5 kids .. that too being a single parent !!

she could have easily sat at home on social welfare and 5 child benefits , instead she chose to work..
now as a young educated child its your responsibility to help your mom sort this issue ..
cool down and help ur mom and in turn help yourself and ur siblings

billybonkers

Maybe look into a go fund me, just a suggestion

ace_irl

rizdub wrote: »

i think you are being harsh on your mother as u have no idea how difficult it is to take care of 5 kids .. that too being a single parent !!

she could have easily sat at home on social welfare and 5 child benefits , instead she chose to work..
now as a young educated child its your responsibility to help your mom sort this issue ..
cool down and help ur mom and in turn help yourself and ur siblings

It will never be the responsibility of a child to fix the mistakes of a parent, they've done their job already by going to school and getting into college. The op clearly has enough going on right now with out any added responsibility.

Op, go to the credit union and set up an account with them. Put as much money in as you can spare to start your savings (even €100 will be plenty) Explain to them that you are going to college and you may have to get a loan to help cover your fees. Every week add a bit of money to this, even if it's only €10.

In the meantime, have a read through this

http://www.revenue.ie/en/starting-a-business/registering-for-tax/how-to-register-for-tax-as-a-sole-trader.aspx

That should have all the information your mum needs to get registered. It's simple enough, explain that to her and then get her to contact an accountant. They'll do everything up, register her and prepare accounts. They can file all necessary paper work too and have her up and running and fully tax legal in no time.

Turnipman

Imstucklads wrote: »

Also, wouldn't revenue want to know why she hasn't been paying tax for a couple of years? This is what she's worried of I believe

Ask her gently:

(a) if she genuinely believes that she's going to get away with tax evasion for the rest of her working life;

and

(b) whether she thinks that depriving each of her 5 kids in turn of the opportunity to go to third level - after they have flogged themselves to achieve a good leaving cert - is good parenting.

And point out that if she approaches Revenue before they catch her, she'll be handled in a much more gentle way.

As a matter of interest, do you reckon that her business is profitable, or is she just about keeping her head above water? Because if she's not making much money then she really hasn't got much to worry about.

Imstucklads

Turnipman wrote: »

Ask her gently:

(a) if she genuinely believes that she's going to get away with tax evasion for the rest of her working life;

and

(b) whether she thinks that depriving each of her 5 kids in turn of the opportunity to go to third level - after they have flogged themselves to achieve a good leaving cert - is good parenting.

And point out that if she approaches Revenue before they catch her, she'll be handled in a much more gentle way.

As a matter of interest, do you reckon that her business is profitable, or is she just about keeping her head above water? Because if she's not making much money then she really hasn't got much to worry about.

She makes enough to feed us and pay for rent and bills. I've seen her bank balance and it's not enough to even pay my student contribution. We're in a very rural area too. I'm going to keep at her now to get registered. She's just so worried about the backtax and not being able to pay it when she doesn't register.

ace_irl

Imstucklads wrote: »

She makes enough to feed us and pay for rent and bills. I've seen her bank balance and it's not enough to even pay my student contribution. We're in a very rural area too. I'm going to keep at her now to get registered. She's just so worried about the backtax and not being able to pay it when she doesn't register.

She will only have tax to pay if she made a profit. As a sole trader she wont be taxed on the money she takes out and uses but the overall profit that was made.

Revenue can be very reasonable to deal with when it comes to these things. If she had a tax bill they can organise payment plans or give her time to get a loan and pay the bill.

She'll have to pay them eventually, best to do it on her own terms then to be audited and published on the defaulters list.

It's hard to advise further without knowing what business she's in as there are always other taxes to consider such as VAT but speak with an accountant, Most firms, especially smaller ones will offer the initial consultation free of charge and it can be a great help.

marriedcouple

I'd start with the student union or advice centre in your university. And put a little away each week with the CU too as suggested. Do a balancing statement P21 at the end of the year in case you are due tax back. That might offset the Jan blues. Can the reg fee be paid in installments? Then re your mum if it's rural based there may be an enterprise centre in her locality whom you could put her in touch with and they should be able to help her out with getting her tax affairs in order. They will be very approachable and practical I their assistance.

august12

Imstucklads wrote:

He walked out on my mother and 4 brothers and sisters when I was 3. I have no contact with him what so ever. He wouldn't even know what I look like.

Well that makes Susi application easier, no separation agreement to provide or maintenance but you will have to prove you are not getting any assistance from him, this usually requires a p21 from revenue for pay workers or a notice of assessment and final set of accounts for 2016 for your mother. Get all.the other documents you need i.e. birth certs, proof of residency in Ireland for three of last 5 years i.e.junior cert results or something official with your name and address confirming you were living in Ireland. You might need other family members birth cert as there is an increase in income allowance for your mother's earnings if she has four or more dependent children. Get working on finding a good accountant.

august12

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Here does she manage to pay rates yet not be registered.

Rates are paid to local county council, nothing to do with revenue.

august12

Imstucklads wrote:

I'm currently in a full time job. I'll hopefully be able to stay on there for Saturdays and Sundays weekly to make money. I don't have a credit Union account either. I'm going to open one asap though. Will they grant me a loan straight away or how does it work with them?

Be aware that your income will be added to your mother's when calculating for grant, there is some amount disallowed but any income you earn during college term is all added as far as I know, about 3000 is ignored but this is only deducted if earned during your holidays i.e. Christmas, Easter and summer if you follow, you might need to check the t and c of the grant to find this info.

august12

Sam Kade wrote:

Either way revenue will want accounts going back 6-7 years and if there was tax due they will be demanding payment.

This is not always the case.

august12

Imstucklads wrote:

She makes enough to feed us and pay for rent and bills. I've seen her bank balance and it's not enough to even pay my student contribution. We're in a very rural area too. I'm going to keep at her now to get registered. She's just so worried about the backtax and not being able to pay it when she doesn't register.

Don't worry about this, if she hasn't even enough to pay for your reg fee, then she obviously hasn't been squirreling away millions in off shore tax havens, first and foremost, get an accountant, there must be a local one with a good reputation, considering your mother has her own business, then she must have friends who are self employed, discreetly find out who their accountant is, contact them and let them do the registration. Dont waste your time looking up revenue about registration. If last year's accounts are sorted, then ye can worry about previous years later.

Sam Kade

august12 wrote: »

This is not always the case.

Are you saying they let some people off while going back years with others.

SEPT 23 1989

Rat your own mother out to revenue??

Is this for real?