General gaming discussion

J. Marston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623370#Comment_123623370

24/7 Lo-fi chill hip hop beats to study/slice limbs off to.

Potential-Monke

Leakers suggesting that Rockstar are going to release a current gen re-release of RDR2 (i assume it'll be 60fps performance mode, finally), and a last gen re-release of GTA IV, assumed to be similar to what little effort they gave to the RDR1 remaster. To be seen if there'll be a free upgrade (lol) or full price. In fairness, it's a lot of work for such a small company to expect anything other than a half arsed attempt.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123630636#Comment_123630636

Grove Street games special 😂

Zero-Cool

Have to say, I loved my playthrough of rdr 1 remaster more than my original. Looked and played really nice. I would love to give gta 4 another go.

Exclamation Marc

Yeah I'd have to agree that I thoroughly enjoyed the RDR1 remaster. I'd happily take similar effort if the output is as good.

Potential-Monke

And ye are the reason they'll never try harder. My position hasn't changed on these games, Rockstar are a big enough company to do proper re-releases akin to the RE games. At the very least, remade in the modern engines like the Spyro remake. But no, they'll continue to put in minimal effort or pawn it off to a smaller company to make an older version run on modern hardware with some ai texture upgrades, and probably broken on release.

My memories of these games look better than the half arsed efforts Rockstar have produced, and giving them money to ruin my memories is not something I'm willing to do. These games are iconic, and deserve much better than what we get.

Jordan 199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123630993#Comment_123630993

Hey cousin, let's play bowling.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123631695#Comment_123631695

Hey hey hey take me out of that ye!! I can't stand Rockstar!

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123631797#Comment_123631797

I wasn't including you! But i hope it didn't come across as an insult, just that Rockstar know people are going to buy it regardless. RDR1 deserved to be remade in the RDR2 engine. GTA 3rilogy and now IV deserve to be remade in the V engine. Just like I was bitterly disappointed by the Lefacy of Kain remasters, they deserved a remake in a modern engine (my vote for Decima!). But Rockstar know it will sell, and now have proven history for half arse releasing a port to run on modern hardware but people buy it anyway. Spyro looked and played like how I remembered it, Legacy of Kain and the GTA 3rilogy looked and played significantly worse than my memories.

I don't mind smaller studios doing it, but a giant like Rockstar with their literal billions shouldn't be let off so easy. Apparently less sales of less effort is better than more sales of more effort. Because of the terrible port of VC and SA, younger gamers will stupidly believe that V is the best!

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123631949#Comment_123631949

My comment was in jest 😁

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123631695#Comment_123631695

That's just flat out blind speculation with no basis in fact.

Would I have preferred RDR to be remade in the newer engine? Sure. But that was never going to happen. You're framing it that it was potentially on the table for a full on remake but the success of the remasters took it off the table or allowed Rockstar to be lazy...

There is zero proof that Rockstar ever had any appetite to remake older games on a newer engine. If people didn't buy the remasters they've put out, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that they'd "try harder". If anything, they'd probably just never do any more remasters in any form. And honestly, if people buying those remasters eventually gets GTA4 out of PS3 hell in any way, that's not a bad thing.

But to suggest that people picking up remasters is what's stopping Rockstar fully remaking games is just not true.

Zero-Cool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123631970#Comment_123631970

I just saw a leaked doc from Rockstar and it explicitly mentions that they were going to remake GTA 4 in the V engine but user Exclamation Marc on an Irish games forum said he'd buy the bare bones remaster so they scrapped the remake plans, sorry man.

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123632105#Comment_123632105

...

Potential-Monke

OK, believe what ye want. But as long as people keep hoovering up these half arsed ports they won't even consider remakes. Maybe the 3rilogy disaster might help them change their mind, but i expect nothing less than a broken worse looking (they usually lose the magic/tricks that made games look good on old hardware) port (again, not always the best port) of the same game that came out decades ago. I expect more from a company worth $20.75 billion who only make 2 games per decade. They're about to port over a 17 year old game and not give it the update it deserves, and I'll eat my proverbial hat if its anything other than that.

It also wouldn't be too bad if they were cheap as chips, but they're charging near full whack for these. Rockstar are a scumbag company now, and have been since shortly after V released.

MikeRyan87

My God Death Stranding 2 is fantastic.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123632394#Comment_123632394

Most companies are scumbag companies. The decisions of corporate heads and CEOs will always just be "What gets us the most money". T'was ever thus.

You can try argue all you want that if people buy remasters rather than remakes, then the companies are never going to do a full and proper remake of the game. The issue is in most cases, they're never going to do that anyway. The level of work required in that, particularly when it comes to games the size and scale of GTAIV, makes it close to being a full new game, but then it's the development costs of a full new game… which people have already played. Nostlagia will bring a lot of players back to the table, but not all and possibly not enough compared to a full brand new original game. Most full remakes of games have either been full reworkings of the original concepts of the game to the point they're essentially a brand new game (eg. Resident Evil 2 & 3 remake, Final Fantasy 7) or smaller, much older games bundled together in a collection (eg. Crash & Spyro PS1 trilogies).

Rockstar could have their own Scrooge McDuck vault of gold, but they're not going to spend money, time and resources to fully remake an entire game when they can do a remaster and make more money. And if gamers stopped buying them, they very likely wouldn't remake them either because there's not enough payoff to it. Why allocate so much time and resources to a full remake of an old game if they don't feel it'll hit the same level of sales as the original, considering so many people have already played it and may not want to play it again (or feel the original is still perfectly fine to play)?

Metal Gear Solid 3 is my favourite game of all time and it's getting a full remake. It likely won't be as good as the original (QoL improvements may make things too easy, no input from Kojima, game designed with the limitations of the console at the time which are no longer factors, graphical quality may cause dissonance with older gameplay), and it may not attract new players who never played the original because ultimately, it's a remake of a 20-year old game halfway through a giant franchise and given the amount of new games available to play they simply might not bother. Konami are ultimately taking the risk on remaking it because they largely stepped away from games for a while and are trying to get back into that space, it's Metal Gear Solid and a way to milk money from the franchise, and it's considered one of the best games of all time. Rockstar right now don't have those issues with the performance of GTA Online, RDR2, and a full new GTA game on the horizon. Why bother with a full remake of GTAIV when they can mostly outsource a remaster?

I'm not saying a lot of these companies don't then overcharge for what is just a run of graphical and performance improvements (which can oftentimes be detrimental to the game in many respects), but that's on the purchaser. If you don't feel the price is fair for the level of work done to the remaster, wait for it to drop or don't buy it. But Rockstar and others would be far more likely to just not bother bringing back older games if they had to do a full-on remake of the entire thing.

It's just not an either/or. It's not "Either we remaster XXXX game or we remake it", because there's also "Let's put those funds and resources into something else instead".

johnny_ultimate

I know most remasters and remakes are ultimately commercial propositions above all, but ensuring games are available in close to their original form (allowing for performance, control and QOL tweaks, where appropriate) for modern audiences is also vital for preservation and discovery purposes, given how games become somewhat inaccessible when they aren’t readily available or easily playable on modern hardware.

Remakes have their place, but they’re basically new games and shouldn’t replace the original games being available in their best possible form. I think it’s a ‘bad thing’, for example, that Silent Hill 2 is currently only readily available in its remade form - no matter how well done the remake is. Same with the recent remake of THPS 3+4, which has made fairly sweeping changes to THPS4 - therefore fundamentally changing the game from its original form.

Retr0gamer

I'm with JU on that. Id much prefer if the games were available as close to original as possible. Capcom seem to be the best at this. They've worked with gog so that the original RE games are now available and preserved while releasing some amazing remakes that are different enough from the original games that they don't negate the original.

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123632394#Comment_123632394

Rockstar flat out don't need the money, nor do they need to be a 'good' game publisher and give fans what they want. The suggestion that Rockstar would be remaking GTA IV in a modern engine if it wasn't for all those people buying the ports/remasters is just wholly untrue.

Rockstar not considering remakes has absolutely nothing to do with people buying the ports.

Potential-Monke

I think there's a difference between keeping original games as original and allowing modern hardware to run it, but that's not what they're doing either. They're AI upscaling textures, messing with lighting/mood and basically changing it from what it originally was. I don't think many would disagree the 3rilogy remasters looked worse. The magic and tricks they had to pull to get the games to look that good on older hardware is lost on the modern remasters for the most part, with the mood being the most affected (Silent Hills fog being another example). It's the lack of effort, they just get a port, do the bare minimum to get it working (if it works) and throw it out with a €50 price tag to boot. From one of the most lucrative publishers in the business. Who don't spend their money on anything other that RDR and GTA. You could say the Max Payne remakes are one, but that's Remedy so doesn't count. I'm not against these remasters to a degree, but for the size of the company it's a kick in the teeth to fans. I've zero interest in paying for and playing a game I played decades ago with such little effort. If others do, great for them. But I do expect more from Rockstar, they used to be a good company horsing out banger after banger, giving players exactly what they wanted. Now they're not even hiding their greed. And I don't expect a GTA 6 level of fidelity here. They've most the hard work done on the RAGE engine, it's not like they'd be starting from scratch. They just don't want to because it won't make enough easy money.

That's the gripe, the company behind it taking the pish. Well, that and the fact they don't even test their remasters before releasing, and fans are more than happy to allow the billionaire company fix it after release… It's the combination of extremely lucrative and greedy company not giving the deserved treatment of their amazing back catalogue. There's room there for remasters and remakes to stand beside each other. Maybe the Stop Killing Games movement will ensure older games will always be available so remasters may become a thing of the past. Doubt it, gamers have proven they're happy to keep paying for worse versions of games they've already played.

Obviously I'm in a minority here (what's new!), so I'll leave it at that. To me, it just bangs of low level effort and blind fans, like Apple.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123633099#Comment_123633099

Yeah I'm also with you on this as well. No doubt the GTA trilogies are awful and there's never been a good port of the PS2 games which still look visually the best due to the lighting being so much better.

The problem with these ports is a lot of developers take the lazy way out but if the source code is lost then you are talking about emulation and emulating the PS2 just isn't viable (you can point to PC emulation but that's really still very inaccurate and also the product of 20+ years of community work). But again, these are three of the most important games of all time and you'd wish they would put the smallest amount of effort into them. Not much excuses when the likes of Digital Eclipse are out there doing insane work (including creating the first decent Atari Jaguar emulator).

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123633099#Comment_123633099

In fairness the GTA Trilogy isn't the best example of the pros/cons of remakes v remasters in general, because even as remasters go, it was just a sh*tshow at release and it seemed to be more a lack of oversight by Rockstar in what Grove Street Games were doing with it. Like you say, it was just upscaled and smoothed out beyond recognition and to a degree where it was absolutely comical.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123633163#Comment_123633163

Worse than that it was a port of the android base code which was a port of the Xbox/PC source code which already had issues compared to the PS2 release.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123633163#Comment_123633163

I think the trilogy is the best example. This is what we get from one of the biggest gaming companies on the planet. No excuses justify it. It'd be one thing if it was released and played flawlessly. Using a smaller companies example of a better remaster would go against my points. As much as I didn't like Aspyrs remaster of LoK, they at least made it playable start to finish with only a few issues and crashes (aside from losing it's feel to a degree, and which took too long to fix). And yeah, smaller games but still… effort vs Rockstars low level effort.

Iseedeadpixels

Rockstar cancelled the GTA V single player DLC when GTA Online blew up, they have made billions from online shark cards.

They then introduced some elements of the DLC into the online game which was a kick in the teeth to single player fans.

They have more than enough resources to remake GTA 4 in a modern engine.

I don't like Rockstar, they milked GTA V for years even updating that for modern consoles, they threaten lawsuits against people who have the audacity to release mods that can modernise older games yet can barely be arsed with in-game modders.

johnny_ultimate

The GTA trilogy was a disaster on release, and like all bad re-masters and remakes it wholly deserves the criticism it received. Yes, Rockstar could’ve done a lot better - and from what I’ve heard RDR is a notable improvement in that respect.

Equally, there are many, many other excellent remasters and re-releases out there, in many cases offering a definitive and comprehensive ways of playing these games as originally intended. Look at the work M2 does making countless classics both easily available in (wherever possible) hardware perfect ports. I for one much prefer rereleases that put the work in to paint the classics in the best possible light, as opposed to remakes which fundamentally alter and change games that are classics for reasons.

Iseedeadpixels

I didn't really enjoy Control and my Game pass is up so going to play a few games I bought in sales over the next few months starting with The Witcher 2, I've played The Witcher 3 soooo many times so should be interesting.

After that its RDR2 then the Mafia Trilogy and yes I do enjoy number 3!!.

We'll see if I pick up more in sales in that time 😁

Edit!!!! Aaaaaaand I just bought 80s Overdrive for 2 quid 😁

Jordan 199

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123633613#Comment_123633613

RDR2. Mighty fine wagons in that game partner.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123635012#Comment_123635012

Will be my 3rd playthrough but traded in the disc copy years ago.

Zero-Cool

Ha, someone going a joke in New Tony Hawks remake showing guitar hero box in the bin. Devs have said they don't know how that got there and will be removing it in the next patch.

https://kotaku.com/thps-3-4-tony-hawk-banjo-guitar-hero-easter-egg-trash-1851786211