Zander in Lough Mask and concerted effort against pike.

RockyRory

Bogwoppit wrote: »

If you have an argument against the owenriff cull then please feel free to share it.

Ya I do, pike are native to all of Ireland are supposed to be protected under the 809 by law.

RockyRory

twin_beacon wrote: »

Do you think IFI's pike policy would be under review if it wasn't for the work of IFPAC and IPS?

what have ips and ifpac achieved over the last 5 years?

Bogwoppit

RockyRory wrote: »

Bogwoppit wrote: »

If you have an argument against the owenriff cull then please feel free to share it.

Ya I do, pike are native to all of Ireland are supposed to be protected under the 809 by law.

I think you may need to do a little more reading, try the rest of this thread for a start.

twin_beacon

RockyRory wrote: »

what have ips and ifpac achieved over the last 5 years?

RockyRory

twin_beacon wrote: »

i ask a simple question and your reply is some monty python sketch from youtube.

what have ips and ifpac delivered for the ordinary pike angler on the ground.

RockyRory

Bogwoppit wrote: »

I think you may need to do a little more reading, try the rest of this thread for a start.

all the thread is pages of rubbish and lads talking garbage. Ifi said pike are native to Ireland and now theyre going killing them down in galway but pikers on here have suddenly lost there voices. Makes me 🤢. Double standards.

Zzippy

RockyRory wrote: »

all the thread is pages of rubbish and lads talking garbage. Ifi said pike are native to Ireland and now theyre going killing them down in galway but pikers on here have suddenly lost there voices. Makes me 🤢. Double standards.

1. Plenty of pikers have voiced their opinions, here and in real life.
2. Pike are native to Ireland. That does NOT mean they are native to every catchment in Ireland.
3. Pike are a recent introduction to the Owenriff catchment.
4. IFI manage several large loughs as designated wild trout lakes, and manage pike numbers in those loughs to protect trout.
5. This policy is currently under review, almost entirely due to pressure from the likes of IFPAC and IPS.
6. When this policy review is complete, it may well result in the cessation of gillnetting on the large loughs. But IFI are carrying out this year's stock management on Corrib etc in the absence of any change to policy.
7. IFI will continue to try to eradicate non-native species where they have been introduced illegally and there are concerns about impact on native species. To do otherwise would be to reward environmental vandalism such as deliberate introductions.

twin_beacon

RockyRory wrote: »

i ask a simple question and your reply is some monty python sketch from youtube.

what have ips and ifpac delivered for the ordinary pike angler on the ground.

I take it you haven't seen that scene from the Life of Brian so!

So, apart from keeping the maximum size for keeping a pike at 50cm (there were calls to Increase it to 85cm). Helping affiliated clubs apply for funding for angling development projects. Meeting with IFI and relevant stake holders to appose the proposed national rod licene (as must anglers were against it). keep fighting to stop the gill nets on the 7 designated lakes.
Apart from all that, what had IFPAC and IPS done for us in the last 5 years?

It's very easy to site behind a keyboard and complain, I know I'm guilty of it a lot. But it's another thing to give up most of your spare time to lobby on the behalf of other anglers, and that's something I honestly don't do enough. I've attended a few meetings with IFI on behalf of my local club over the years, but that's nothing compared to what the guys in IFPAC, IPS and the Irish Angling Alliance have done over the years.

spaceHopper

RockyRory wrote: »

what have ips and ifpac achieved over the last 5 years?

Are you willing to get involved?

RockyRory

Zzippy wrote: »

1. Plenty of pikers have voiced their opinions, here and in real life.
2. Pike are native to Ireland. That does NOT mean they are native to every catchment in Ireland.
3. Pike are a recent introduction to the Owenriff catchment.
4. IFI manage several large loughs as designated wild trout lakes, and manage pike numbers in those loughs to protect trout.
5. This policy is currently under review, almost entirely due to pressure from the likes of IFPAC and IPS.
6. When this policy review is complete, it may well result in the cessation of gillnetting on the large loughs. But IFI are carrying out this year's stock management on Corrib etc in the absence of any change to policy.
7. IFI will continue to try to eradicate non-native species where they have been introduced illegally and there are concerns about impact on native species. To do otherwise would be to reward environmental vandalism such as deliberate introductions.

Well Zzippy i see by your numbered and very political response that you seem to be very close to the coalface of the whole pike and trout debate. do you work for inland fisheries ireland in the west? i think you do.

RockyRory

spaceHopper wrote: »

Are you willing to get involved?

get involved in what exactly?

spaceHopper

RockyRory wrote: »

get involved in what exactly?

the ips and ifpac

rpmcmurphy

RockyRory wrote: »

Well Zzippy i see by your numbered and very political response that you seem to be very close to the coalface of the whole pike and trout debate. do you work for inland fisheries ireland in the west? i think you do.

None of your business what any ones employment is!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

RockyRory wrote: »

Well Zzippy i see by your numbered and very political response that you seem to be very close to the coalface of the whole pike and trout debate. do you work for inland fisheries ireland in the west? i think you do.

How about addressing the points made, if you have an issue with any of them?

ActionHank

Zzippy wrote: »

1. Plenty of pikers have voiced their opinions, here and in real life.
2. Pike are native to Ireland. That does NOT mean they are native to every catchment in Ireland.
3. Pike are a recent introduction to the Owenriff catchment.
4. IFI manage several large loughs as designated wild trout lakes, and manage pike numbers in those loughs to protect trout.
5. This policy is currently under review, almost entirely due to pressure from the likes of IFPAC and IPS.
6. When this policy review is complete, it may well result in the cessation of gillnetting on the large loughs. But IFI are carrying out this year's stock management on Corrib etc in the absence of any change to policy.
7. IFI will continue to try to eradicate non-native species where they have been introduced illegally and there are concerns about impact on native species. To do otherwise would be to reward environmental vandalism such as deliberate introductions.

3. Pike are a recent introduction to the Owenriff catchment.
False -> Pike has been in Owenriff for over 13 years, if not more. I've caught pike in Owenriff for the first time in 2004, and many more over the years.

4. IFI manage several large loughs as designated wild trout lakes, and manage pike numbers in those loughs to protect trout.
The roach spawns in the Owenriff in the early spring....1000's of roach and hybrids full of eggs, if you eradicate the entire population of Pike, that will be the end to trout in Corrib. Unless IFI are hoping create a new coarse fishing heaven or the next Lough Muckno than I don't really know what they trying to achieve with the Pike culls.

Zzippy

ActionHank wrote: »

3. Pike are a recent introduction to the Owenriff catchment.
False -> Pike has been in Owenriff for over 13 years, if not more. I've caught pike in Owenriff for the first time in 2004, and many more over the years.

13 years is recent, that's what I meant. Pike have been in the Corrib for over 200 years, 13 years is nothing. By the way fisheries were only made aware of pike in the Owenriff in 2007 so would probably be interested to hear from you.

ActionHank wrote: »

4. IFI manage several large loughs as designated wild trout lakes, and manage pike numbers in those loughs to protect trout.
The roach spawns in the Owenriff in the early spring....1000's of roach and hybrids full of eggs, if you eradicate the entire population of Pike, that will be the end to trout in Corrib. Unless IFI are hoping create a new coarse fishing heaven or the next Lough Muckno than I don't really know what they trying to achieve with the Pike culls.

There is no way to eradicate the entire population of pike, the aim is to keep pike stocks at a manageable level. I'm not trying to justify it, I have my own doubts over it's effectiveness, just stating facts around the whole thing.

twin_beacon

ActionHank wrote: »

The roach spawns in the Owenriff in the early spring....1000's of roach and hybrids full of eggs

I've heard about those runs of roach up the Owenriff, supposed to be some massive roach in there too. I'd love to target them some year, but timing is everything. Also, I'm not sure how the locals would react to an angler trotting a stick float down the Owenriff!

Caribs

twin_beacon wrote: »

I've heard about those runs of roach up the Owenriff, supposed to be some massive roach in there too. I'd love to target them some year, but timing is everything. Also, I'm not sure how the locals would react to an angler trotting a stick float down the Owenriff!

I don't think anyone would mind people fishing for roach or anything else for that matter. You regularly see people fishing for different species and nobody bats an eyelid. The only thing you obviously need to be conscious of is accessing land if it's privately owned but that's no different to anywhere else.

Zzippy

twin_beacon wrote: »

I've heard about those runs of roach up the Owenriff, supposed to be some massive roach in there too. I'd love to target them some year, but timing is everything. Also, I'm not sure how the locals would react to an angler trotting a stick float down the Owenriff!

The roach only run into the lower river up to the town, like the pike they can't get past the waterfall. The lower river would be no problem for coarse fishing, the boat slip would be an ideal place.

RockyRory

Zzippy wrote: »

The roach only run into the lower river up to the town, like the pike they can't get past the waterfall. The lower river would be no problem for coarse fishing, the boat slip would be an ideal place.

Inspector Zzippy the fisheries expert . like all ifi mouthpieces, he keeps changing his mind on pike. one day theyre invasive the next theyre native . everybody knows that pike and trout have coexisted for thousands of years in the owenriff river. pike control roach numbers in the owenriff. more pike is better for the trout. pike control there own numbers also. pike clean up all the sick and diseased fish so if Ifi kill all the pike you only have a river of stunted trout left. without pike the owenriff would be a dead system.

ardinn

RockyRory wrote: »

Inspector Zzippy the fisheries expert . like all ifi mouthpieces, he keeps changing his mind on pike. one day theyre invasive the next theyre native . everybody knows that pike and trout have coexisted for thousands of years in the owenriff river. pike control roach numbers in the owenriff. more pike is better for the trout. pike control there own numbers also. pike clean up all the sick and diseased fish so if Ifi kill all the pike you only have a river of stunted trout left. without pike the owenriff would be a dead system.

He was about roach in fairness

SeaFields

Mod. Rockyrory attack the post not the poster. No more personal stuff. Whatever anyone does for a living is their own business. First and final warning on that.

twin_beacon

Zzippy wrote: »

The roach only run into the lower river up to the town, like the pike they can't get past the waterfall. The lower river would be no problem for coarse fishing, the boat slip would be an ideal place.

Perfect, I was actually thinking of the boat slip, access is good. Hopefully I'll get the time this year.

Zzippy

twin_beacon wrote: »

Perfect, I was actually thinking of the boat slip, access is good. Hopefully I'll get the time this year.

I've seen big shoals in that area, in very shallow water sometimes. A bit of ground bait could draw in a lot of fish to a swim.

twin_beacon

the only problem with roach at that time of year is timing, they usually congregate in massive shoals before actually moving onto the spawning grounds, once they move off and start to spawn, they are impossible to catch until they finish their business. Last year I timed it perfectly, had a lovely keepnet of fat roach, went back the next day, not one bite! They had moved only 70-80 yards down stream from where I was, I didnt even bother trying to catch them there.
However, watching thousands of roach spawn is some sight!

spaceHopper

RockyRory wrote: »

Inspector Zzippy the fisheries expert . like all ifi mouthpieces, he keeps changing his mind on pike. one day theyre invasive the next theyre native . everybody knows that pike and trout have coexisted for thousands of years in the owenriff river. pike control roach numbers in the owenriff. more pike is better for the trout. pike control there own numbers also. pike clean up all the sick and diseased fish so if Ifi kill all the pike you only have a river of stunted trout left. without pike the owenriff would be a dead system.

User blocked I'll no longer see his posts.

RockyRory

What does the hurler on the ditch think?

Statement - Owenriff Management Plan

---

On the 28th of November 2017 in the midst of a review of related state policy Minister Sean Kyne issued a press statement relating to a program of works for the removal of pike from the Owenriff River catchment at Ougterard Co. Galway, a program that has been vigorously campaigned for by Minister Kyne’s constituents and the first of its kind. There has been vigorous opposition to this program due to apparent falsified information relating to the catchment and the lack of economic or scientific justification for this program. While IPS/ IFPAC welcome specific management plans for salmonid catchments (29th May 2017) these must be supported by scientific, ecologic and economic justification. There are some important questions to be asked of Minister Kyne and the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (DCCAE) in relation to the announcement, funding and initiation of this program. Will Minister Sean Kyne continue to endorse the apparent notion that there has been no opposition to this program and deliver it in the absence of any justification raising questions relating to corporate governance and the assignment of funding? Will Minister Sean Kyne ignore the serious concern expressed by anglers nationally regarding the status of the current review of fishery management policy in light of the seeming unilateral decisions being made by political appointees without any apparent scientific or economic basis and potentially compromising the national interest to satisfy local constituency objectives?
https://www.facebook.com/SeanKyneTD/posts/1737043843023457
Why was the program of works announced on the 28th November 2017 prior to completion or publication of any scientific or economic justification and at a time when a general election was looming due to revelations in connection with Tanaiste Francis Fitzgerald?
To date 11th February 2018, over 2 months later, the management plan has been welcomed and initiated (29th Jan 2018) by Minister Kyne yet no scientific or economic justification has been provided.
Further statements have been made by DCCAE, IFI and Minister Kyne which would appear to lack in transparency and require immediate clarification. See below:
“How much will it cost? (Answer) €52,000.00”
IPS: IPS request a cost benefit analysis of this sum of tax-payers money being spent. In other words, what is the return to the state for this sum?
“Does this mean other areas will have reduced resources? (Answer) IFI operates with limited resources and allocates on a prioritised basis”.
IPS: As all IFI monies are allocated on a budgeted basis, can you please indicate which areas will now suffer as a result of this €52,000.00 spend?
“Does anyone disagree with this plan, and if so, who? (Answer) We are not aware of anyone disagreeing with this plan”.
IPS: Over 100,000 pike anglers, their families and their supporters disagree. To claim ignorance of this fact, is in our opinion, disingenuous. During a radio interview on Galway Bay FM on the 1st November 2017 Minister Sean Kyne described the “intense heat” he gets from both the pike and trout lobby. On what basis has it been assumed that there is no opposition?
“Pike are an introduced species to the Owenriff”.
IPS: Please state the scientific evidence that validates the above statement and specifically the alleged 2008 introduction. Anglers are on public record as having caught pike to 18lbs from the Owenriff system prior to 1996. IPS have sworn affidavits from some of our members who caught pike in the Owenriff in the 1990’s. Surprisingly, as together with IFPAC we represent all pike anglers in Ireland, as stakeholders our views or expertise were not sought in reaching this decision.
“Why the concentration on the Owenriff? (Answer) Due to recent pike introductions”.
IPS: Please catalogue the nature, time and location of these illegal introductions, and salient evidence to support these claims, that on foot of, vast sums of tax payers money are being spent on.
Please provide the rationale for concentration on the Owenriff catchment when other catchments acting as spawning habitat for L Corrib salmonids provide over 3 times the reproductive capacity as the Owenriff. Eg. Clare, Abbert and Grange rivers.
How will similar management plans (excluding pike management) be initiated on other important salmonid sub catchments outside of Minister Sean Kyne’s constituency?
Where will the funding be sourced for continuance of this plan in 2019 and for the additional plans that will now be sought by stakeholders nationwide for their sub catchments based on the precedent that the department has now set?
“How do you isolate pike from the other fish? (Answer) By the methods detailed above”.
IPS: The methods detailed include Fyke and Gill nets, which are non-discriminatory. Therefore, based on netting results previously, a large amount of salmonids shall be captured and die. Please comment, citing previous results that illustrate that only pike shall be captured.
Frankly, our association find the above incredible. In June/ July 2017 a stock survey has been carried out on the Owenriff system. The results of same are as yet unknown, but in advance of their publication, and with an absence of facts, the decision has been made and executed, to spend a vast sum of money on pike removal, without knowing how many are present, their status within the eco-system, their beneficial or malevolent impact, and without the benefit of any scientific input. This also takes place within the backdrop of a scientific review of the pikes place within salmonid fisheries which is incomplete.

hurler014

So Minister Kyne has decided to put votes first on his decision to continue gill netting on the larger lakes when the available data stating that pike have a neglible impact upon salmonoids on lakes above 1klm in size.

dodderangler

RockyRory wrote: »

Inspector Zzippy the fisheries expert . like all ifi mouthpieces, he keeps changing his mind on pike. one day theyre invasive the next theyre native . everybody knows that pike and trout have coexisted for thousands of years in the owenriff river. pike control roach numbers in the owenriff. more pike is better for the trout. pike control there own numbers also. pike clean up all the sick and diseased fish so if Ifi kill all the pike you only have a river of stunted trout left. without pike the owenriff would be a dead system.

100% agreed. I've said this for years. Pike control themselves and the reality is that large trout are fairly safe around pike. Large pike are lazy as most of us know and most over 15lb+ are likely more so scavengers. Pike have very little impact on trout numbers. And the fact that pike prey a lot on their own kind more so than anything else is a dead giveaway. I've seen avid trout anglers kill like over 20lb and leave em on the bank. It's not right. Pike are here a lot longer than people thought. It was told they were brought here but they've actually always been here.
Let's keep the pike in high regards as pike are largely targeted in Ireland because if the size they grow to. I know from talking to lads who have been to the bottom of blessington lake diving and they've told me there is like down there of well over 60 lb plus. They're a respected fish. Not a menace. European water wolf is what they are.

Zzippy

dodderangler wrote: »

100% agreed. I've said this for years. Pike control themselves and the reality is that large trout are fairly safe around pike. Large pike are lazy as most of us know and most over 15lb+ are likely more so scavengers. Pike have very little impact on trout numbers. And the fact that pike prey a lot on their own kind more so than anything else is a dead giveaway. I've seen avid trout anglers kill like over 20lb and leave em on the bank. It's not right. Pike are here a lot longer than people thought. It was told they were brought here but they've actually always been here.
Let's keep the pike in high regards as pike are largely targeted in Ireland because if the size they grow to. I know from talking to lads who have been to the bottom of blessington lake diving and they've told me there is like down there of well over 60 lb plus. They're a respected fish. Not a menace. European water wolf is what they are.

The first paragraph is probably true in a mixed fishery with ample stocks of coarse fish prey. In the Owenriff, the only prey species are trout and salmon. Pike very definitely have an impact on salmonid numbers in the absence of other prey species.