Pathside Charging Points

mirrorwall14

Hi everyone,

I've followed this forum on and off now for a year or so. I live it a semi D but no offstreet parking, parallel parking kerbside outside the house. Just wondering if anyone has installed a kerbside charger and has a ball park figure? When I looked into it last year there wasn't really much information around. The estate is still in the hands of the developer and likely won't be any issues with permission.

The alternative spot is across the bloody road so not helpful! :rolleyes: :mad:

goz83

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Hi everyone,

I've followed this forum on and off now for a year or so. I live it a semi D but no offstreet parking, parallel parking kerbside outside the house. Just wondering if anyone has installed a kerbside charger and has a ball park figure? When I looked into it last year there wasn't really much information around. The estate is still in the hands of the developer and likely won't be any issues with permission.

The alternative spot is across the bloody road so not helpful! :rolleyes: :mad:

If permission won't be a problem, then I would guess you're looking at circa 1k. You will be looking at a pole mounted unit. I am sure one of the lads on here got one installed.

unkel

Permission is the big problem. As is public liability (your installation will not be on your private land), for which you need insurance. Bit of a minefield this

Soarer

Maybe ask your local council about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKaEhBjt1ls

ELM327

Beware, while it's a great idea, it doesnt suit Ireland due to location of the poles

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

Beware, while it's a great idea, it doesnt suit Ireland due to location of the poles

Such a xenophobe!

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

Such a xenophobe!

I will confess, that took a second to register what you meant.:D

I actually meant, the light pole is on the side of the path away from the road, meaning there would be a cable crossing a pedestrian path which of course would never be allowed.

liamog

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Hi everyone,

I've followed this forum on and off now for a year or so. I live it a semi D but no offstreet parking, parallel parking kerbside outside the house. Just wondering if anyone has installed a kerbside charger and has a ball park figure? When I looked into it last year there wasn't really much information around. The estate is still in the hands of the developer and likely won't be any issues with permission.

The alternative spot is across the bloody road so not helpful! :rolleyes: :mad:

I've been going through the process with the guy who does the installations for eCars.

For us it's looking at around €1300 including all the works, certification, priority switches and reinstatement of the public areas. We had to get drawings done for the management company as well.

Your situation sounds very like ours, I still haven't got round to pulling the trigger as we have Blanch and Lucan FCPs 5 and 8 km away.

The installer is very busy at the moment, with the range of our car we only need to charge 2/3 times a week and we've had no issues using FCPs at 11pm.

oppenheimer1

liamog wrote: »

I've been going through the process with the guy who does the installations for eCars.

For us it's looking at around €1300 including all the works, certification, priority switches and reinstatement of the public areas. We had to get drawings done for the management company as well.

Your situation sounds very like ours, I still haven't got round to pulling the trigger as we have Blanch and Lucan FCPs 5 and 8 km away.

The installer is very busy at the moment, with the range of our car we only need to charge 2/3 times a week and we've had no issues using FCPs at 11pm.

That's a very competitive quote, even for a very short run. Even doing the ground works yourself, it would be hard to beat that quote.

liamog

After 9 months of driving we finally have a home charge point.

I'd put the install on the back burner for a while as despite the majority opinion, public fast charging is very doable and personal circumstances meant the large outlay for the charge point was better held in case of emergency.

I'm going to order a shorter coiled cable now for use at home.

mirrorwall14

Oh wow that looks super. If you don't mind me asking, what was the ballpark cost? Or PM?

liamog

So quick run through of how I convinced a management company to allow the above.

1. Make sure you're up to date on all your management fees
- no point starting off on a bad foot.

2. I looked into the idea of installing the ESB free charger and running the cable over the cable
- This is obviously unsafe so I proposed to use a cable cover similiar to those used at music festivals

3. I confirmed with my home insurance company that they would cover any trips caused by the above proposal
- They confirmed in writing and where able to address the confirmation to the management company.

4. The management company were now happy with the proposal and that they weren't liable

5. I then suggested that I'd been talking to the installer who'd suggested a better plan (see the final picture)
- I pointed out that as we would be likely setting a precedant here, I wanted to ensure that any installation was as safe as possible
- The installer was able to provide pictures of similar installs
- The installer also provided drawings of the planned works.

6. At this point the management company agreed that it was a suitable plan.

7. Insert 4 months of Mrs. liamog moving jobs

8. Finally set a date and charger installed

unkel

Result!

I know you've posted pictures before of your house and iirc your parking space is just across the (public) path from your house. In my case the installer was looking for well over a grand extra to put a similar concrete pedestal charger in on my driveway that I own. It would have been convenient, but I found the money excessive and just went with the free install (and bought a 15m Type 2 cable that I leave tethered to the charger for convenience). I'm actually surprised you didn't go for the tethered charger?

Do you mind sharing how much the total install cost was extra on top of the free charger? You'd be doing a lot of people a favour as there are almost zero new reasonably affordable houses (say under €400k) being built in the greater Dublin area where people have their own driveway

Next step: sign up with Just Energy, charge your car for free at home and mine a few cryptocurrencies for free too

thelikelylad

unkel wrote: »

Result!

I know you've posted pictures before of your house and iirc your parking space is just across the (public) path from your house. In my case the installer was looking for well over a grand extra to put a similar concrete pedestal charger in on my driveway that I own. It would have been convenient, but I found the money excessive and just went with the free install (and bought a 15m Type 2 cable that I leave tethered to the charger for convenience). I'm actually surprised you didn't go for the tethered charger?

Is there anyway to lock the cable to the untethered ABL unit? I'd like to do the same but wouldn't fancy coming home to find the cable gone.

unkel

Nah, but I've locked the cable to a tree. It would be easier and more profitable to steal my car than to steal my cable

Come to think of it, maybe I should lock it to a few more trees and hedges. Will cost me feck all to do that and I guess it would be a right pain in the neck to steal it then. Not that there is a lot of demand for 15m type 2 32A cables. Mine is quite likely the only one in the country

elperello

liamog wrote: »

So quick run through of how I convinced a management company to allow the above.

1. Make sure you're up to date on all your management fees
- no point starting off on a bad foot.

2. I looked into the idea of installing the ESB free charger and running the cable over the cable
- This is obviously unsafe so I proposed to use a cable cover similiar to those used at music festivals

3. I confirmed with my home insurance company that they would cover any trips caused by the above proposal
- They confirmed in writing and where able to address the confirmation to the management company.

4. The management company were now happy with the proposal and that they weren't liable

5. I then suggested that I'd been talking to the installer who'd suggested a better plan (see the final picture)
- I pointed out that as we would be likely setting a precedant here, I wanted to ensure that any installation was as safe as possible
- The installer was able to provide pictures of similar installs
- The installer also provided drawings of the planned works.

6. At this point the management company agreed that it was a suitable plan.

7. Insert 4 months of Mrs. liamog moving jobs

8. Finally set a date and charger installed

It looks good.
Have you considered what happens if you move?

unkel

He's just bought the house. Unlikely to move in the next 10 years. And even if he did, what difference would it make? Just leave it there for the next owner to enjoy. You wouldn't remove PV panels from your roof or remove the newly installed expensive gas boiler either when you move house surely?

liamog

If anyone is looking to do a similar install you should budget €1,500 to €2,000.

I was able to do a part-ex on my eCars charger to bring the price down a bit.

If I move house we'll either remove the charge point and take it with us, or maybe the new owner will have an EV by that point and we can use at as a selling point.

At the price we paid, I figure it's 12 months of fuel savings compared to our old ICE.

If fee based public charging comes in at 30c/kWh I will be saving about €320 with the home charger.
But when I add the McDonalds Charging levy to that, charging three times a week was going to cost us another €1200 in junk food and coffee

thelikelylad

Very tidy job liamog. Just wondering if it is 7kW or 3.6kW?

All you need now is for a few of the neigbours to get EVs and you can start charging them to use your point

Did you consider just putting in a lockable outdoor 13A socket instead? If I didn't get the free ecars charger + install I reckon I'd still just be using the granny cable.

unkel

thelikelylad wrote: »

Just wondering if it is 7kW or 3.6kW?

Seriously?

thelikelylad

unkel wrote: »

Seriously?

Erm yup.

Think I just found my answer elsewhere. 7kW with a priority switch for the shower liamog? I must get around to upping my unit to 7kW at some stage in the future. I guess I might need a priority switch also, or to just rip out the shower.

liamog

Yep, went for the 7kW. The price difference between a 3.5 and 7 kW was barely worth the difference.

I plan on getting a Model 3 as the next car. Wanted to make sure I can do a fullish charge in the 9 hour night rate window.

I didn't want to go for a tethered option, as it's in a very exposed location and would be easier for kids to mess with.

elperello

unkel wrote: »

He's just bought the house. Unlikely to move in the next 10 years. And even if he did, what difference would it make? Just leave it there for the next owner to enjoy. You wouldn't remove PV panels from your roof or remove the newly installed expensive gas boiler either when you move house surely?

I didn't know he'd just bought the house.
Anyway he has clarified that he may leave it if the new owner wants it or take it with him.
That sounds sensible.
I was interested because of the management company concern over insurance. If the new owner had no use for it and it was just left there that could have been a problem.

Gumbo

Nice job.

I’m currently involved in 2 of these for clients but planning permission and management companies are holding them up.

The planning end is where I come in. One council here in dubli has already put it on record that planning is required as I lodged a Section 5. This is most likely due to its location though. The site in South Dublin is contained within a larger area that is deemed to be in the list of national monuments (Newcastle).

The other in Dublin City, the council has classed it as works. It’s nkt street furniture so can’t enjoy that exemption. If it was in a garden you could enjoy the 1.2m height exemption but on the public grass area it is deemed as to requiring planning.

Both clients are pondering their next move.

unkel

thelikelylad wrote: »

Erm yup.

Do you honestly think someone would get this install done for €1700 with a 3.6kW output if they could have done it for €1750 with a 7.2kW output?

If there is someone out there like that, maybe they should consider not reproducing :pac:

ted1

Is the spot you have designated or is it a common spot, what happens if a neighbour or somebody else starts parking or even charging there ?

liamog

We've had the house for 6 years. It's a three bed and we've no plans for kids in the short term.

I've finished doing my analysis of our bank accounts.

Estimated fast food savings will be €50 a month.
If paid charging is introduced, I'm guesstimating a €25 a month saving by home charging.

Charger will save me €75 a month giving an approx. 20 month payback, or 29 months if the free charging regime continues.

liamog

ted1 wrote: »

Is the spot you have designated or is it a common spot, what happens if a neighbour or somebody else starts parking or even charging there ?

If they start charging there I'm going to have some very strong words about stealing electricity

It's not designated parking, but in 6 years it's probably only been 7/8 times that people have parked outside our house in a way that would block us. Ironically Sunday night was one of them, we'd been away for the weekend and parked at the airport long term car park. Got home and was to the first time using the charger as the install was only finished last Friday after we'd left for the airport.

The Ioniq has enough range that we don't need to charge every night, so I'm not overly concerned.

thelikelylad

unkel wrote: »

Do you honestly think someone would get this install done for €1700 with a 3.6kW output if they could have done it for €1750 with a 7.2kW output?

If there is someone out there like that, maybe they should consider not reproducing :pac:

Wasn't aware of the prices. If they have an EV let them reproduce

€1,750 is steep though? Surely an outdoor lockable three-pin socket would have been significantly cheaper but like you say liamog it'll pay off over time I guess and yeah I wouldn't fancy charging a Model ≡ from a granny cable.

cros13

kceire wrote: »

Both clients are pondering their next move.

Ah... sure it's often easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

If the council objects:
newsdesk@irishtimes.com
mkeenan@independent.ie
george.lee@rte.ie

Sometimes trial by media is the only way to get them moving...

liamog

cros13 wrote: »

Ah... sure it's often easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

If the council objects:
newsdesk@irishtimes.com
mkeenan@independent.ie
george.lee@rte.ie

Sometimes trial by media is the only way to get them moving...

Might be a good idea to give Noel Rock a shout too.
He's pro EV (I think he drives a Leaf) and this is one area we could really do with some legislation.

Gumbo

cros13 wrote: »

Ah... sure it's often easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

If the council objects:
newsdesk@irishtimes.com
mkeenan@independent.ie
george.lee@rte.ie

Sometimes trial by media is the only way to get them moving...

That’s the problem. I can’t advise a client to spend 2k, then lodge a retention application to be told that it must be removed. I don’t think it will now, but I believe a valid planning application could set a good precedent but the clients have not asked me to that as of yet.

liamog wrote: »

Might be a good idea to give Noel Rock a shout too.
He's pro EV (I think he drives a Leaf) and this is one area we could really do with some legislation.

Cheers yeah, I’m already friends with him on FB so award of his pro EV status. He is also quite active on the FB group.

The legislation is already there, it requires planning if in a public place. It doesn’t require planning if in your front garden but then again it wouldn’t require the pole if you have a front garden so catch 22.

I’d love to lodge a planning for one as it will set the bar.

thierry14

unkel wrote: »

Result!

I know you've posted pictures before of your house and iirc your parking space is just across the (public) path from your house. In my case the installer was looking for well over a grand extra to put a similar concrete pedestal charger in on my driveway that I own. It would have been convenient, but I found the money excessive and just went with the free install (and bought a 15m Type 2 cable that I leave tethered to the charger for convenience). I'm actually surprised you didn't go for the tethered charger?

Do you mind sharing how much the total install cost was extra on top of the free charger? You'd be doing a lot of people a favour as there are almost zero new reasonably affordable houses (say under €400k) being built in the greater Dublin area where people have their own driveway

Next step: sign up with Just Energy, charge your car for free at home and mine a few cryptocurrencies for free too

D15 has/had loads of newly built houses with own driveway for sale @ under 300k, nevermind 400k

Crazy amount of construcion in the area

That charger looks really good Liamog

Who do you have home insurance with?

They seem pretty decent

Del2005

kceire wrote: »

Nice job.

I’m currently involved in 2 of these for clients but planning permission and management companies are holding them up.

The planning end is where I come in. One council here in dubli has already put it on record that planning is required as I lodged a Section 5. This is most likely due to its location though. The site in South Dublin is contained within a larger area that is deemed to be in the list of national monuments (Newcastle).

The other in Dublin City, the council has classed it as works. It’s nkt street furniture so can’t enjoy that exemption. If it was in a garden you could enjoy the 1.2m height exemption but on the public grass area it is deemed as to requiring planning.

Both clients are pondering their next move.

I'm in South Dublin in an apartment. Are they only looking for PP because it's a national monument or for all their areas?

Gumbo

Del2005 wrote: »

I'm in South Dublin in an apartment. Are they only looking for PP because it's a national monument or for all their areas?

It’s because it’s in the public domain. It can’t be classed as garden furniture and is specifically classed as works under the Planning & Development Act.

elperello

So if you bought a house with one of these in a public area you would be taking responsibility for an unauthorised development which probably wouldn't show up in a planning search.

Gumbo

elperello wrote: »

So if you bought a house with one of these in a public area you would be taking responsibility for an unauthorised development which probably wouldn't show up in a planning search.

Very possible.
A good Building Surveyor should
Pick up on an EV charging point outside and enquire about it as part of his report.

It also could slip under the radar as if I was carrying out such a survey, then I would be more aware of these things from owning an EV as opposed to another Surveyor who would not be as up to date with charging options.

BoatMad

I was going to ask about planning. I presume it's required for a roadside installation.

Gumbo

BoatMad wrote: »

I was going to ask about planning. I presume it's required for a roadside installation.

Yes depending on location. You will need management company approval and then planning permission.

Heres Johnny

Excuse my ignorance on this but have a few questions as my house is similar to this as it has a footpath outside. But I also have a designated private underground car park spot which would be ideal for this and I do want to go EV, or at least PHEV pretty soon.

Where does the power come from? Does it have it's own power supply or is it drawing power from your house? Is it on its own meter or the house meter?

liamog

Mine is ran direct from the distribution board at the front of the house.
It's probably a shorter cable run than some of the more conventional installs.

Doesn't have a separate meter at all.

Heres Johnny

liamog wrote: »

Mine is ran direct from the distribution board at the front of the house.
It's probably a shorter cable run than some of the more conventional installs.

Doesn't have a separate meter at all.

Does it cross a public footpath? How did you deal with This?

liamog

It's buried under what is technically a private footpath owned by the management company. As a homeowner, technically I own a fraction of the pavement. I think it's 1/238.

Gumbo

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance on this but have a few questions as my house is similar to this as it has a footpath outside. But I also have a designated private underground car park spot which would be ideal for this and I do want to go EV, or at least PHEV pretty soon.

Where does the power come from? Does it have it's own power supply or is it drawing power from your house? Is it on its own meter or the house meter?

Power has to come from a metered premise, as it has to be paid for by somebody. If there is no direct path from the EV charge point to the Consumer Unit (Fuse Board) then it will be very difficult to get a charger installed.

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Does it cross a public footpath? How did you deal with This?

This is where the permissions come in. In a Managed estate, the management company have to agree to dig up a small trench or indeed give you permission to do it once insured etc