Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

liger

Just to note, GA sent a mass mail inviting those who expressed interest in working as drivers to complete application forms. their site also updated.

We are offering,

A salary of up to €32,000 per annum with opportunities for further earnings with overtime
A contributory pension scheme
Free modern uniform
Travel benefits
Paid holiday
Industry leading training and ongoing development
Structured working patterns with guaranteed hours
Death in service benefit
Opportunities to work elsewhere within the Go-Ahead Group

TallGlass

liger wrote: »

Just to note, GA sent a mass mail inviting those who expressed interest in working as drivers to complete application forms. their site also updated.

We are offering,

A salary of up to €32,000 per annum with opportunities for further earnings with overtime
A contributory pension scheme
Free modern uniform
Travel benefits
Paid holiday
Industry leading training and ongoing development
Structured working patterns with guaranteed hours
Death in service benefit
Opportunities to work elsewhere within the Go-Ahead Group

I am interested, would be a drop in pay of around 8k. Would I be mad?

Considering also, it's only 'up to 32k' I don't really get this? Anyone explain.

Thanks.

GM228

TallGlass wrote: »

Considering also, it's only 'up to 32k' I don't really get this? Anyone explain.

You start on something lower and work your way up to 32k.

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

TallGlass wrote: »

Considering also, it's only 'up to 32k' I don't really get this? Anyone explain.

You start on something lower and work your way up to 32k.

And obviously any headline figure won't include any premiums and overtime should they apply.

Stephen15

TallGlass wrote: »

I am interested, would be a drop in pay of around 8k. Would I be mad?

Considering also, it's only 'up to 32k' I don't really get this? Anyone explain.

Thanks.

If it's something you would love to do or if what your currently doing is something you absolutely hate and you'd prefer to work for as driver for GA then go for it, if not then don't bother.

I assume it means they will pay more to people with experience of driving a bus/coach but that's just an educated guess so don't mark my word.

They could be a little more clear about the requirements and any restrictions etc. I would consider it myself hopefully they or DB will be hiring in a few years time when I've passed my driving test in a car first.

Also consider Bus Eireann or Aircoach both hiring atm afaik.

TallGlass

Interesting, so could really start on anything I am thinking starting on 24K or so which to me is really low.

StreetLight

Judging by all the loudmouth armchair professors during the Dublin Bus strike who stated that they would do the job for half the money, GoAhead should have no problem filling those posts.

devnull

TallGlass wrote: »

Interesting, so could really start on anything I am thinking starting on 24K or so which to me is really low.

Who knows what their entry rate is.

I assume that up to may well be there to cover those who apply without a license that they will train up themselves who will probably be on less.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

Who knows what their entry rate is.

I assume that up to may well be there to cover those who apply without a license that they will train up themselves who will probably be on less.

If GA are to train in house they will need to employ registered instructors like DB, I have not seen such positions advertised.

TallGlass

devnull wrote: »

Who knows what their entry rate is.

I assume that up to may well be there to cover those who apply without a license that they will train up themselves who will probably be on less.

That would be myself, have the learner permit for the D. I'm just interested in if it's a good job/company to work for. The routes themselves look fine, can't imagine much traffic/no cross city driving from the looks of things, seems depot is out Ballymount.

TallGlass

GM228 wrote: »

If GA are to train in house they will need to employ registered instructors like DB, I have not seen such positions advertised.

I have, they where looking for instructors before drivers if I remember correctly.

GM228

TallGlass wrote: »

That would be myself, have the learner permit for the D. I'm just interested in if it's a good job/company to work for. The routes themselves look fine, can't imagine much traffic/no cross city driving from the looks of things, seems depot is out Ballymount.

As the "job" has not started yet and GA Dublin is essentially a new company nobody knows yet, however the GA group of companies are generally considered good to work for AFAIK.

Dave_Dublin

liger wrote: »

Just to note, GA sent a mass mail inviting those who expressed interest in working as drivers to complete application forms.

I received that mass email . . .

There was no application form in it at first so they sent it again a few mins later WITH the form, however, the form cannot be filled in properly.

They ask for the PDF form to be filled in and submitted electronically but whoever prepared the form clearly just copied+pasted every time they wanted to add a new field to be filled in . . .

This has the effect of meaning that whatever you enter into the first line auto-copies to EVERY other line that was copied+pasted when the from was being prepared.

My address, for example, filled in as 123 Street Name, 123 Street Name, 123 Street Name, 123 Street Name. and so on throughout the form . . .

When you delete one of the copies, ALL of the fields delete including the one you don't want to delete. --- Very frustrating.

The form will have to be printed and posted to them unless they send the PDF one again - FIXED

GM228

TallGlass wrote: »

I have, they where looking for instructors before drivers if I remember correctly.

Their first officially advertised career opportunity was for drivers and since they have looked for engineering and office staff, no vacancies for instructors have come up yet.

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

If GA are to train in house they will need to employ registered instructors like DB, I have not seen such positions advertised.

By themselves I didn't necessarily mean directly - just the fact that they are taking on applicants who do not have qualifications and funding the training of them, be that internally or externally and they may pay staff less at the start because of the fact they are bearing the training costs.

devnull

end of the road wrote: »

people are actually waking up to this now devnull. i have saw a lot of comments across other online media where the government get the blame for the problems, whereas it used to be mostly the operator.

Still not enough though if you ask me.

Rolling stock procurement is a complete mess when it's directly government managed. They've had two big projects, Thameslink and the Intercity Express Program and spectacularly messed both up. Took 5-6 years between starting procurement and signing the contract for each of them and when the trains were ordered in 2013 they were still based on a spec written in 2008.

Trains arrive in 2015 built to a spec written 7 years earlier and lack Wifi and plug sockets and have a questionable seating layout. The trains got widely panned in the press for these issues and the government went into hiding and allowed Thameslink to take the flack for a rolling stock procurement program which they or their predecessors had no say in.

Then you have the ridiculous shenanigans on the TPE franchise where First wanted to order 56x3 car trains with option for another 56 cars and had the order cut to 51x 3 car on the basis that there was no demand and then when overcrowding was on the horizon they lobbied the government for permission for extra cars, but were again turned down. A short while later the government are hitting out at the same operator for unacceptable levels of overcrowding,

Don't get me wrong - there are examples of poor operators like Connex and National Express East Coast which have brought on problems themselves, but there are a fair few operators who have simply had to do what they are told and have had to take the flack publicly for government decisions as most people just see the TOC and not what is driving their actions.

IE 222

€8-15k is a serious drop in wages especially given the cost of living in Dublin these days and the strict terms the banks put on mortgage applications these days . You will be doing shift work as well so expect a lot of early morning, late night, weekend and holiday period work.

Personally id hold of for now as I believe GA will struggle to employ the required number of drivers and will be forced to up their offering. I cant see many drivers walking away from other companies for less money unless DB and BE offer big tasty redundancies soon.

Its not offen when a company needs you more than you need them so if there is a pool of potential drivers looking on I wouldn't jump straight in.

Its your decision at the end of the day but think of your future and 10 years down the road.

devnull

IE 222 wrote: »

€8-15k is a serious drop in wages especially given the cost of living in Dublin these days and the strict terms the banks put on mortgage applications these days . You will be doing shift work as well so expect a lot of early morning, late night, weekend and holiday period work.

Are you saying that there are DB drivers on €40k to €47k basic in DB before any allowances are taken into account?

Remember advertised figures will always be just the core pay because things like overtime or premium are not guaranteed and will differ from staff member to staff member so it is best practice not to include these in publicly stated figures

IE 222

Is there age restrictions in place as a lot of commercial insurance wont cover drivers under the age of 25.

devnull

IE 222 wrote: »

Is there age restrictions in place as a lot of commercial insurance wont cover drivers under the age of 25.

I haven't seen anything advertised - but I know quite a few privates limit the age in the same way listing it's because of insurance purposes (but not all openly state it on their recruitment advertisements) so depending on who they are insuring with then it may be at play as well here.

Obviously it's not an issue for CIE group companies as they are self-insured, however honestly I've never seen anyone very young working for Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann myself.

I'd imagine they'd get a fair few people from Dublin Coach - a lot of them jumped ship to Aircoach in the last 6 months or so I have read elsewhere and Dublin Coach always seem to be recruiting and apparently the pay there is nothing special and Aircoach seem to be the current highest payers in the private sector.

The lower paying privates in the Dublin Area will be the ones to lose the most staff I'd say.

TallGlass

IE 222 wrote: »

€8-15k is a serious drop in wages especially given the cost of living in Dublin these days and the strict terms the banks put on mortgage applications these days . You will be doing shift work as well so expect a lot of early morning, late night, weekend and holiday period work.

Personally id hold of for now as I believe GA will struggle to employ the required number of drivers and will be forced to up their offering. I cant see many drivers walking away from other companies for less money unless DB and BE offer big tasty redundancies soon.

Its not offen when a company needs you more than you need them so if there is a pool of potential drivers looking on I wouldn't jump straight in.

Its your decision at the end of the day but think of your future and 10 years down the road.

Yeah think I will hold off on it to be honest. 32 would have been okay, but below that, you just cannot afford to live, even at 32 that's still pushing it.

IE 222

devnull wrote: »

Are you saying that there are DB drivers on €40k to €47k basic in DB before any allowances are taken into account?

Remember advertised figures will always be just the core pay because things like overtime or premium are not guaranteed and will differ from staff member to staff member so it is best practice not to include these in publicly stated figures

Obviously not but the potential of eventually reaching that salary is there. Not many are going to shift for similar or less money with lessor long term potential benefits. GA wont be paying drivers that kind of money regardless of lenght of service and experience.

devnull

IE 222 wrote: »

Obviously not but the potential of eventually reaching that salary is there. Not many are going to shift for similar or less money with lessor long term potential benefits. GA wont be paying drivers that kind of money regardless of lenght of service and experience.

What is the highest core pay that Dublin Bus staff can get? By that I mean excluding all allowances, premiums and bonuses? It would be interested to compare it with the figures that Go-Ahead are offering.

I can't see many moving from Dublin Bus unless they are spares who want more regular hours, you're right with that, but people working for the likes of Dublin Coach I reckon may well transfer across as they don't have a good reputation for staff conditions and their fleet issues are well documented.

IE 222

devnull wrote: »

I haven't seen anything advertised - but I know quite a few privates limit the age in the same way listing it's because of insurance purposes (but not all openly state it on their recruitment advertisements) so depending on who they are insuring with then it may be at play as well here.

Obviously it's not an issue for CIE group companies as they are self-insured, however honestly I've never seen anyone very young working for Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann myself.

I'd imagine they'd get a fair few people from Dublin Coach - a lot of them jumped ship to Aircoach in the last 6 months or so I have read elsewhere and Dublin Coach always seem to be recruiting and apparently the pay there is nothing special and Aircoach seem to be the current highest payers in the private sector.

The lower paying privates in the Dublin Area will be the ones to lose the most staff I'd say.

Most if not all insurers wont accept under 25's and quiet a lot wont insure commerical. Im sure GA will be paying a large enough premium some rules could be changed but wouldn't bank on it.

GA will need a 100+ drivers in a short period of time. Dublin Coach like others will be keen to retain drivers with such a demand for drivers coming soon and will likely match other salary offerings.

IE 222

TallGlass wrote: »

Yeah think I will hold off on it to be honest. 32 would have been okay, but below that, you just cannot afford to live, even at 32 that's still pushing it.

Id expext it to go up to 35k but that will be for experienced drivers.

IE 222

devnull wrote: »

What is the highest core pay that Dublin Bus staff can get? By that I mean excluding all allowances, premiums and bonuses? It would be interested to compare it with the figures that Go-Ahead are offering.

I can't see many moving from Dublin Bus unless they are spares who want more regular hours, you're right with that, but people working for the likes of Dublin Coach I reckon may well transfer across as they don't have a good reputation for staff conditions and their fleet issues are well documented.

I dont have figures and a breakdown on perks but an average salary is about 38-40k after a number of years.

I cant DB spares moving. Its more beneficial to wait it out with DB.

devnull

IE 222 wrote: »

GA will need a 100+ drivers in a short period of time. Dublin Coach like others will be keen to retain drivers with such a demand for drivers coming soon and will likely match other salary offerings.

I'm sure they'll get a fair few that they'll train up

Thing with Dublin Coach is they're very much a low cost as possible operator - we've seen previously on here that there is a fair bit of difference between what they will pay and what Aircoach for example pay and also the other thing with Dublin Coach is that they squeeze their rosters like hell and squeeze their staff for hours and unrealistic timetables which doesn't make their jobs any more attractive when apparently they're not getting paid extra if late.

I see it impacting Dublin Coach more than anyone else because when you add another 125 jobs in the industry, it's going to be the lowest payers in the industry who are going to have to increase their wages by the most to deal with that or face staff shortages. I know Aircoach maxes out higher than Go-Ahead, so they won't have so much trouble retaining staff, but of course there may be people in certain parts of the salary scale who would be better off in Go-Ahead.

end of the road

devnull wrote: »

Still not enough though if you ask me.

Rolling stock procurement is a complete mess when it's directly government managed. They've had two big projects, Thameslink and the Intercity Express Program and spectacularly messed both up. Took 5-6 years between starting procurement and signing the contract for each of them and when the trains were ordered in 2013 they were still based on a spec written in 2008.

Trains arrive in 2015 built to a spec written 7 years earlier and lack Wifi and plug sockets and have a questionable seating layout. The trains got widely panned in the press for these issues and the government went into hiding and allowed Thameslink to take the flack for a rolling stock procurement program which they or their predecessors had no say in.

Then you have the ridiculous shenanigans on the TPE franchise where First wanted to order 56x3 car trains with option for another 56 cars and had the order cut to 51x 3 car on the basis that there was no demand and then when overcrowding was on the horizon they lobbied the government for permission for extra cars, but were again turned down. A short while later the government are hitting out at the same operator for unacceptable levels of overcrowding,

Don't get me wrong - there are examples of poor operators like Connex and National Express East Coast which have brought on problems themselves, but there are a fair few operators who have simply had to do what they are told and have had to take the flack publicly for government decisions as most people just see the TOC and not what is driving their actions.

i know, i'm with you on this. all i'm saying is people are waking up to the reality that the government are a problem. it will always take time for people to wake up to problems unfortunately.

IE 222

devnull wrote: »

I'm sure they'll get a fair few that they'll train up

Thing with Dublin Coach is they're very much a low cost as possible operator - we've seen previously on here that there is a fair bit of difference between what they will pay and what Aircoach for example pay and also the other thing with Dublin Coach is that they squeeze their rosters like hell and squeeze their staff for hours and unrealistic timetables which doesn't make their jobs any more attractive when apparently they're not getting paid extra if late.

I see it impacting Dublin Coach more than anyone else because when you add another 125 jobs in the industry, it's going to be the lowest payers in the industry who are going to have to increase their wages by the most to deal with that or face staff shortages. I know Aircoach maxes out higher than Go-Ahead, so they won't have so much trouble retaining staff, but of course there may be people in certain parts of the salary scale who would be better off in Go-Ahead.

It will be costly and ongoing training as the CDL will need to be done as well.

I agree small companies will suffer but they will need to act or risk losing out on business and contract if they cant meet the service level. I dont think there is enough drivers for GA to poach from within the small companies. Dublin Coach will have to change things and offer a better package and match competitor's. Its ok now but when a sudden demand for 100 - 200 drivers comes a long they need to act and sure they've planned for this.

KC8

It seems that many people still cant see past an ideological position that is pro or anti private sector. In my opinion, the focus should sit squarely with the customer and the tax payer.

The customer wants as good a service as funding will allow. The tax payer doesn't want their money wasted.

Here are just some of the examples of why I think competition will be good for Dublin.

Example 1 of unacceptable work practice: Restrictions on efficient timetabling. See page 64 and 65 of http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/public-transport/english/cost-and-efficiency-review-dublin-bus-and-bus-eireann-january-2009/cost-and-efficiency-review-dublin-bus-and-bus-e%CC%81ireann-january-2009.pdf

Example 2: Blocking progress for no good reason
http://www.dublinbusdrivers.com/Post_2330_Departures.html

Example 3: Refusing to alter work patterns when asked http://www.dublinbusdrivers.com/route9.html

Go Ahead will be a new operator and wont have to deal with this kind of archaic union resistance to change.

In the case of Dublin Bus, if all of the above examples were done away with tomorrow, the customer and tax payer would be far better off. The drivers would still have the same take home pay - they would simply be working in a more efficient way and in a manner that is reflective of the 21st century.

Another indirect benefit of having competition is that it may bring some sense to bear on unions within Dubin Bus. Hopefully they will see the writing on the wall. If they want Dublin Bus to remain a dominant player in the bus market in the medium to long term, they need to do away with the most extreme positions currently adopted. A previous poster correctly highlighted the impending 24 hour operation of certain bus routes as relevant here - something that has been talked about for many years without any progress. Had Go Ahead not won the tender, I suspect we would not have had any talk of 24 hour operations!

Don't get me wrong - I am not any Union. They play an important role. But I am against Unions blocking progress for no good reason.