Forcing old people to be landlords

Wibbs

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why don't they for starters stop giving all out land and housing to vulture funds etc.... All private investors and foreign for that matter.


We had absolutely sh1t loads of properties but now these funds have snapped them all up for buttons.

They pay no tax..... Yes no tax whatsoever.


Look up rte and selling off Ireland. I-res is one entity that has snapped up close to 3k units and hopes to get 5k....

Their rent is 2.8k last year for a 2 bed apartment at ifsc.


This is absolutely mind boggling and should never have happened.

Hardly a shock mind you P. After all a previous government covered the losses of financial institutions to the tune of hundreds of billions that we will take generations to pay off, if ever. So that another government is happy to stand by while foreign vulture funds hoover up more Irish assets is hardly surprising. One would wonder about brown envelopes being handed around in such cases....

enricoh wrote: »

Y
Eh no, we require your house for the cant work, wont work brigade on the council waiting list whining on joe duffy, 50% of whom have only arrived to this country.

Indeed and given we're importing more and as every single other European example has taught us, or should have, that 50% will have a much higher than background of generational social welfare reliance. Fcuking unreal. But no, we have show how right on we are. Sod that noise. While we have a housing crisis stop these people coming in. If someone wants to immigrate here, then they must show an ability and proof of work and accommodation, as so many do, otherwise eff off. Freeload somewhere else.

L1011

Dravokivich wrote: »

I thought in most of these scenarios the house was used against the costs of private nursing care already?

It is. And it sits empty and falling in to dereliction if the owner is lucky enough to have a decent stretch left.

Rent it out and you may suddenly fail to qualify for Fair Deal at all and be unable to afford the care home in the first place.

There's nothing in this plan to "force" houses left empty in this scenario to be rented - just make it more practical to do so without affecting the owner's care.

Wibbs

bluewolf wrote: »

Pension requirements? Aren't these nursing homes like 1-2 grand a week?

They certainly can be, some can be more and that's often just the basics B. Anything considered as "extras" is charged on top. Operating care homes is a licence to print money.

SEPT 23 1989

This little kite will be shot out of the sky

Hupourradat

Kivaro wrote: »

This is a new low in politics.

I'm afraid this is a new low in Irish society.

What about all the unfinished and ghost estates? Why not finish them and move people in instead of harassing the elderly and rural communities in general?
Because of all the CaoimhlO'Cornflakes and Fionnuala Ni hUberalles who paid €400k for their 3 bedroom semi detached chicken coops who would be up in arms if some poor homeless fella or even what they imagine to be Vicky Pollard and her 13 Childrens Allowance Cheques moving in next door and ruining the ambience. In other words increasing their negative equity.

Yep this is middle class FG voting (edit:currently FG voting, self serving all the time) Ireland passing the buck onto everyone not up to their upturned collars in hock to the Bank. Begrudging miserable middle Ireland who can't stomach the idea that someone is not in as much crap as they are.

Shame on them.

jimmycrackcorm

Pkiernan wrote:

So what happens if a person leaves the nursing home only to find some scumbag deadbeat tenants won't vacate?

Where this happens they have to dig the grave and bury said tenants in another grave.

L1011

Hupourradat wrote: »

I'm afraid this is a new low in Irish society.

What about all the unfinished and ghost estates? Why not finish them and move people in instead of harassing the elderly and rural communities in general?

Because they're in the middle of sodding nowhere, and the houses they're interested in here are in urban areas.

Involuntary mass migration of people to poorly serviced rural villages is "harrassing rural communities" by anyones standards.

The vast majority of ghost estates are in the mid- and north-west; where there is minimal demand for housing of any description; and were only built due to insane tax incentives brought in by FF for developers.

You may not quite have realised that the majority of houses they're interested in here are in long established housing estates, exactly the areas your surreal reverse-snobbery is about. A house in a rural area is of no interest as there's plenty of those available to rent already.

I know of two in the estate I live in. The house I bought was actually empty for the 18+ months prior due to the previous owner being in a nursing home

suicide_circus

People need to be told "no" more.

"No, can't have your forever home in this area to be close to your ma. You need to accept the housing where it's available "

"No, you can't block the building of much needed social housing because it might impact on the value of your house."

flazio

So what happens when the elderly landlord passes away? A lot of families prefer to let them repose in the family home rather than some cold funeral parlour, and then comes the mine field of who becomes the new landlord and what is to become of the tenants.
Crazy idea in my view.

gizmo81

suicide_circus wrote: »

People need to be told "no" more.

"No, can't have your forever home in this area to be close to your ma. You need to accept the housing where it's available "

"No, you can't block the building of much needed social housing because it might impact on the value of your house."

And An Taisce needs to be told No, you will not block high rises in Dublin.

gizmo81

flazio wrote: »

So what happens when the elderly landlord passes away? A lot of families prefer to let them repose in the family home rather than some cold funeral parlour, and then comes the mine field of who becomes the new landlord and what is to become of the tenants.
Crazy idea in my view.

That's such a practical and personal thing the Government won't have even thought of it.

Victor

Hupourradat wrote: »

What about all the unfinished and ghost estates? Why not finish them and move people in instead of harassing the elderly and rural communities in general?

Most of them have been finished over the last 10 years and/or are in the wrong location.

L1011

flazio wrote: »

So what happens when the elderly landlord passes away? A lot of families prefer to let them repose in the family home rather than some cold funeral parlour, and then comes the mine field of who becomes the new landlord and what is to become of the tenants.
Crazy idea in my view.

Relatively uncommon in the East of the country where the worst housing pressure is - funeral home removals are significantly more common; particularly when there's nobody else living with them - which there couldn't be in this case.

Back where I'm from originally, its unheard of not to have a wake in the house but there's also more houses available to rent long term than there'll ever be tenants.

Victor

flazio wrote: »

So what happens when the elderly landlord passes away?

With respect, they're would be dead and won't really need a house.

Ray Palmer

L1011 wrote: »

It is. And it sits empty and falling in to dereliction if the owner is lucky enough to have a decent stretch left.

I have had 6 elderly relatives go into homes and not one of their properties were in any danger of dereliction

L1011 wrote: »

Involuntary mass migration of people to poorly serviced rural villages is "harrassing rural communities" by anyones standards.

No not by anyone's standard. It is about time rural people with chips on their shoulders about Dublin accept their part in their own demise. Farms were modernised requiring less workers and farmers did this to their labour force and neighbours. More people got cars and started ignoring the local village due to lack of parking closing their own local businesses. You went and sent your family to get an education for jobs that were never coming to the area so decided you were going to move.
Less and less people made providing services completely unsustainable. The "harassing of rural communities" is reality and consequences down to a lack of diversification and loyalty.

L1011

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I have had 6 elderly relatives go into homes and not one of their properties were in any danger of dereliction

Not everyone has family who care about the former home sufficiently.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

No not by anyone's standard. It is about time rural people with chips on their shoulders about Dublin accept their part in their own demise. Farms were modernised requiring less workers and farmers did this to their labour force and neighbours. More people got cars and started ignoring the local village due to lack of parking closing their own local businesses. You went and sent your family to get an education for jobs that were never coming to the area so decided you were going to move.
Less and less people made providing services completely unsustainable. The "harassing of rural communities" is reality and consequences down to a lack of diversification and loyalty.

I don't think you even vaguely understood what I said.

Kivaro

L1011 wrote: »

It is. And it sits empty and falling in to dereliction if the owner is lucky enough to have a decent stretch left.

Rent it out and you may suddenly fail to qualify for Fair Deal at all and be unable to afford the care home in the first place.

There's nothing in this plan to "force" houses left empty in this scenario to be rented - just make it more practical to do so without affecting the owner's care.

I believe that FG are working on ways to lessen the likelihood of your second point happening if residents rent out their homes while in a nursing home.

Regarding your third point, the word "force" may be harsh. The government are using words like "incentivise", but that could easily change into negative reinforcement if you are in a nursing home and do not agree to rent out your property.

For this initiative to work, the logistical issues of renting by the elderly would have to be managed e.g. Fair Deal issues, tax on income, home maintenance, PRTB registration, disputes etc. Would a new bureaucratic agency be required to handle it?

And what about the fear factor being introduced? Not that they need anything additional to aggravate them while in a nursing home but this topic will surely cause unnecessary stress to elderly people.

L1011

Kivaro wrote: »

I believe that FG are working on ways to lessen the likelihood of your second point happening if residents rent out their homes while in a nursing home.

That is precisely what - and all - they are doing.

They are not looking to force anyone to do anything. They know there are currently houses empty where the owners are not using them and cannot rent them out for fear of losing their care; and are looking to fix that.

Your opening post is misinformed and hysterical. Many of the replies are worse.

Kivaro wrote: »

And what about the fear factor being introduced?

The "fear factor" comes from posts like yours.

Hupourradat

L1011 wrote: »

I know of two in the estate I live in. The house I bought was actually empty for the 18+ months prior due to the previous owner being in a nursing home

Don't get what this has to do with anything. If the owner is alive it's their house. You can't just acquire it because it's in an estate you want to live in and they're in a home. Likewise the government can't just plonk a tenant in because the owner is in care. That's a bit Poor Law to be honest.

Build Social Housing, and build high rise.

You make it sound like seagulls fighting over nests

L1011

Hupourradat wrote: »

Don't get what this has to do with anything. If the owner is alive it's their house. You can't just acquire it because it's in an estate you want to live in and they're in a home. Likewise the government can't just plonk a tenant in because the owner is in care. That's a bit Poor Law to be honest.

Build Social Housing, and build high rise.

You make it sound like seagulls fighting over nests

Nobody is looking to force rentals or acquire anything - the OP is needlessly scaremongering for some reason.

There is a change being discussed to allow rentals without it impacting on the income restrictions for Fair Deal. That is all. There is nothing further, there will be nothing further.

Its not going to solve the social housing issue but nobody is saying it will and its misrepresentation to act as if anyone has.

Hupourradat

Kivaro wrote: »

And what about the fear factor being introduced?

Totally agree with the Fear Factor sentiment. Half reported terms and conditions in order to whip up uncertainty as usual.

We have a constitutional right to property. For better or for worse. The solution won't be in an old time landgrab.

Hupourradat

L1011 wrote: »

Nobody is looking to force rentals or acquire anything - the OP is needlessly scaremongering for some reason.

There is a change being discussed to allow rentals without it impacting on the income restrictions for Fair Deal. That is all. There is nothing further, there will be nothing further.

Ok, thank you, I get it. This is just being blasted out of it in the media with the Goverments blessing as seems to always be the case nowadays.

Kivaro

L1011 wrote: »

That is precisely what - and all - they are doing.

They are not looking to force anyone to do anything. They know there are currently houses empty where the owners are not using them and cannot rent them out for fear of losing their care; and are looking to fix that.

You are delusional if you believe that the fear of losing their care is the only reason why nursing home residents do not want to rent out their homes.

L1011

Kivaro wrote: »

You are delusional if you believe that the fear of losing their care is the only reason why nursing home residents do not want to rent out their homes.

Its not the only reason for everyone. Its the only reason for some. That's sufficient for a very simply legislative change to be worthwhile.

You are being completely hysterical here.

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Where this happens they have to dig the grave and bury said tenants in another grave.

Owww, you are awful. Brilliant response.

gctest50

Kivaro wrote: »

You are delusional if you believe that the fear of losing their care is the only reason why nursing home residents do not want to rent out their homes.

Renting out while they are in a nursing home would be a disaster

If someone has an asset they will never use again worth say ..... €280,0000

and they are in a nursing home, what's wrong with selling it off to cover the costs ?


( exclude farms for the minute to keep it simple )

gctest50

Cost of care :


about € 900 per week


https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/Cost.pdf

pwurple

gctest50 wrote: »

Renting out while they are in a nursing home would be a disaster

If someone has an asset they will never use again worth say ..... €280,0000

and they are in a nursing home, what's wrong with selling it off to cover the costs ?


( exclude farms for the minute to keep it simple )

It isn't a disaster for us, we have been doing it for years. and I actually can't understand the hand-wringing. I have an eldery granduncle in a nursing home. He has been there for years. We rented his house out after a few months, mostly to help fund the nursing home, but also to keep it occupied.

What's the disaster? Explain it to me?

I would hope if I ever end up in a nursing home, my children have enough cop on to rent my house out to fund it rather than crippling themselves with basically a creche for the elderly, while a viable income stream is left to rot.

I do see the issue with modernisation, and storage of belongings, because we experienced both. We packed his belongings into a storage box in a cousins garden, and between the lot of us we clubbed together for a few weekends doing clearing and painting, and fixing up a few bits. Not everyone has the time/inclination/ability do that, we are lucky to have family supports too. But it is not impossible either. A management company will do it if you pay them something.

LirW

What's the disaster? Explain it to me?

I think the potential disaster is a scumbag moving in that overholds, doesn't pay and trashes the place. It's not unheard of that this does happen to a good number of landlords.
In theory the elderly person couldn't even go home for the very last day to die in their own place.
Your family did it because you saw a viable source of money in it. Others don't have this support or aren't capable of doing it.
Just build more and leave other peoples houses alone and put an end to all the crybabies that whinge about everything built 40 miles around their own house because it loses like 5 Euro in value.

LirW

LirW wrote: »

Just build more and leave other peoples houses alone and put an end to all the crybabies that whinge about everything built 40 miles around their own house because it loses like 5 Euro in value.

Great. Build where? Dublin? On what land? The idea behind this initiative seems to be using empty houses/apartments.

How about thinking positive. This just might work.