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Vacant Homes (www.vacanthomes.ie) and Privacy

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    seamus wrote: »
    Sure. And the Gardai would do nothing about it unless a law has been broken.

    They would be entitled to ask you what you are doing.

    And if the house is broken into, well the ninny who submitted the info to the site is a sitting duck.

    Tragic to see people fall for this sh*te. Thankfully judging by the overall response not many.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They would be entitled to ask you what you are doing.

    Do you honestly think they would rush there just to ask someone why they're taking photos


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    Gatling wrote: »
    Do you honestly think they would rush there just to ask someone why they're taking photos

    They may or may not, it depends on the conduct of the "snitch", but it's a distinct possibility as it could be perceived as loitering with intent. You could be taking photos with a view to breaking in later on. If you were taking photos, and randomly quizzed, and replied that you were planning on uploading photos to the vacanthomes website, do you honestly think the Gardai would believe you? :D

    The first question they would ask is, why?

    A couple of houses near me are vacant. If I report them (why would I do that anyway?) to the website, and give my name - even if I don't they can trace an IP address - I'm a sitting duck if there's a burglary, both in civil and criminal liability.

    Mod deletion. Unfounded accusation

    If someone was burgled in the coming weeks and it transpires that their property was uploaded to this website prior to the break in I'd wager they would have a prima facie case in action against Mayo County Council and whoever furnished information.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    .........

    The first question they would ask is, why?

    vacanthomes dot ie


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    gctest50 wrote: »
    vacanthomes dot ie

    It makes no logical sense at all that anyone would report a vacant property to authorities, unless it is completely dilapidated and a safety risk in that case uninhabitable in any event.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    It makes no logical sense at all that anyone would report a vacant property to authorities, .......

    Makes perfect sense, vacant properties in the area attract the wrong sort of visitor

    That sort of visitor are like rats, if they know there's no copper plumbing n tanks to be got, they won't be around


    this exists too :



    http://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/social-housing/leasing/repair-and-leasing-scheme-rls-frequently-asked-questions



    The scheme is targeted at owners of vacant properties who cannot afford or access the funding needed to bring their properties up to the required standard for rental property

    The Repair and Leasing Scheme (RLS) has been developed to assist private property owners and local authorities or Approved Housing Bodies (AHBs) to harness the accommodation potential that exists in certain vacant properties across Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It makes no logical sense at all that anyone would report a vacant property to authorities
    To you.

    Some people may see it as a civic duty to flag up vacant properties when the country is in the middle of a housing crisis.

    Your use of inflammatory language - snitch, ninny, turncoat, Stasi, rat - illustrates that you automatically consider the state to be an enemy of the individual which seeks to undermine the rights of the individual.

    So it doesn't surprise me why you'd have trouble understanding that other people don't feel the same way.

    Anyway, your assertion that taking photos of a vacant property could find you liable for burglary charges is unfounded Mod deletion


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Makes perfect sense, vacant properties in the area attract the wrong sort of visitor

    That sort of visitor are like rats, if they know there's no copper plumbing n tanks to be got, they won't be around


    this exists too :



    http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/repair-leasing-faqs_feb-2017.pdf

    If an owner wants to avail of that scheme let him apply himself.

    It's none of my business to be a snitch to the State as to what he wants to do with his property, or what his personal circumstances are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    seamus wrote: »
    To you.

    Some people may see it as a civic duty to flag up vacant properties when the country is in the middle of a housing crisis.

    Your use of inflammatory language - snitch, ninny, turncoat, Stasi, rat - illustrates that you automatically consider the state to be an enemy of the individual which seeks to undermine the rights of the individual.

    So it doesn't surprise me why you'd have trouble understanding that other people don't feel the same way.

    Anyway, your assertion that taking photos of a vacant property could find you liable for burglary charges is unfounded and hysterical.

    Agreed. I fully believe that.

    It's not the State's business, or mine, what anyone does with property they lawfully purchased (other than accommodating criminal or anti-social activity).

    Feel free to suffer from Stockholm Syndrome if it makes you feel important.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It's not the State's business, or mine, what anyone does with property they lawfully purchased (other than accommodating criminal or anti-social activity).
    Well, that's a matter for a different forum. This is the legal discussion forum. Whether you consider the purpose of the website to be morally right or wrong, it's still legal.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    seamus wrote: »
    Well, that's a matter for a different forum. This is the legal discussion forum. Whether you consider the purpose of the website to be morally right or wrong, it's still legal.

    It's not a matter for a different forum when it's mooted that Compulsory Purchase Orders be expanded.

    I find your motive for being on this thread very suspect.

    Mod
    I don't see anything suspect in what Séamus posted


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    They may or may not, it depends on the conduct of the "snitch", but it's a distinct possibility as it could be perceived as loitering with intent. You could be taking photos with a view to breaking in later on. If you were taking photos, and randomly quizzed, and replied that you were planning on uploading photos to the vacanthomes website, do you honestly think the Gardai would believe you? :D

    Weather or not they believe you is irrelevant. There is no crime of loitering or loitering with intent in Ireland.

    When loitering in a manner which gives rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace, Gardaí can ask you to leave, but the photo is already taken. The problem is the Gardaí must suspect with reasonable cause that you are doing so and you must not have any reasonable excuse before they can do so. Taking a photograph is a fairly reasonable excuse which would not give rise to reasonable cause.


    The first question they would ask is, why?

    The thing is you are only taking a picture, by the time the Gardaí are called and respond the chances is still being there to be asked why are very slim. And if you are there you say why and that is the end of it.


    If someone was burgled in the coming weeks and it transpires that their property was uploaded to this website prior to the break in I'd wager they would have a prima facie case in action against Mayo County Council and whoever furnished information.

    A case for what exactly? The information supplied isn't published.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50




    It's not the State's business,
    or mine, what anyone does with property they lawfully purchased (other than accommodating criminal or anti-social activity)........

    It's the States business to try look after everybody

    if you have a place that ( looks ) vacant, it will attract the wrong sort of visitor


    If you have a place that "looks vacant " you are accommodating criminal/anti-social behavior
    .......

    (other than accommodating criminal or anti-social activity)........


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    God bless the innocence of some posters on here.

    They'll learn.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭trixiebust


    Peregrinus wrote:
    Generally you don't need a "legal basis" to collect information. You need a legal basis to stop someone collecting information.

    I'm living in an estate of about 200 houses, of which approx 65 houses are empty. Have been so, since 2007.

    Looking in the windows ( the one's that aren't broken anyway ), it's like a time warp. Newspapers on the ground, half finished coke bottles.

    It's like someone walked in one day and said " right lads pack up, we're
    finished ".


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I find your motive for being on this thread very suspect.
    That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Feel free to PM me if you have any queries about my motives rather than drag this any further off topic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,351 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    The shrill 'they tuk our properties' would be bemusing if it wren't so serious. The right to property is not unfettered.
    Who on earth is going to rat on a neighbouring homeowner, even if they don't like him, with a view to tenants moving in who might cause trouble??:confused: This website poses a direct and clear security risk and interference to property owners.
    So, you are suggesting that "tenants ... who might cause trouble" are worse than a vacant property that is at risk of vandalism, flooding, fire, etc.
    The High Court has made a decision on the privacy aspect.

    http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/bce24a8184816f1580256ef30048ca50/9bd14182c49347be8025713300410c9c?OpenDocument

    I do not believe it has been appealed or overturned
    Interesting that the right to privacy in this case is tied to the inviolability of the home - vacant houses aren't homes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    God bless the innocence of some posters on here.

    They'll learn.

    It can be tricky to insure a vacant house

    If a kid has an accident on the site of the vacant house - who pays ?

    The State ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    Victor wrote: »
    The shrill 'they tuk our properties' would be bemusing if it wren't so serious. The right to property is not unfettered.So, you are suggesting that "tenants ... who might cause trouble" are worse than a vacant property that is at risk of vandalism, flooding, fire, etc.

    The issue is the encroachment of the State on property ownership. You are very naive if you don't see that that's what is happening here. It isn't about dealing with homelessness. It's about creeping measures on the drip effect towards seizure in an expanded set of circumstances. Then the State can decide in an escalating fashion who they choose to house and not house. I won't say anymore but I have my suspicions as to what is actually going on here.

    If a property owner leaves a property vacant as long as it is not a safety risk he is perfectly entitled to do so.

    Existing laws, authorities and insurers perfectly serve the circumstances you highlight and are a separate issue.

    I hope developers and property investors fight any measures involving penalties tooth and nail in the Courts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    gctest50 wrote: »
    It can be tricky to insure a vacant house

    If a kid has an accident on the site of the vacant house - who pays ?

    The State ?

    The owner if it's uninsured. Though should the kid have been on the vacant premises in the first instance? Probably not.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    The owner if it's uninsured. ........

    So the owner will have to come up with say € 700,000


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,944 ✭✭✭circadian


    How do you know your home is on there? I can't find any search tool nor can I find any sort of sign up form, just a login page.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    circadian wrote: »
    How do you know your home is on there? I can't find any search tool nor can I find any sort of sign up form, just a login page.

    That's the idea. That's exactly what Mayo County Council want. All the info on your house and no recourse for you when things go ar$e up.

    The website may well warrant a formal complaint to/ investigation by the Data Protection Commissioner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    That's the idea. That's exactly what Mayo County Council want. All the info on your house and no recourse for you when things go ar$e up.

    The website may well warrant a formal complaint to/ investigation by the Data Protection Commissioner.

    The website was developed with the DPCs assistance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    They should have prizes for the kids for the summer

    Under 16 ? upload vacant place & win new iPhone 8

    ( not a lottery since element of skill ? dunno maybe legal person can give opinion on that bit )


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    gctest50 wrote: »
    They should have prizes for the kids for the summer

    Under 16 ? upload vacant place & win new iPhone 8

    Great idea


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    circadian wrote: »
    How do you know your home is on there? I can't find any search tool nor can I find any sort of sign up form, just a login page.

    Write to Mr. Stephen Carolan, Information Systems Project Leader, Mayo County Council, Aras an Chontae, The Mall, Castlebar, County Mayo, email scarolan@mayococo.ie.

    He's the registered webmaster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    I also had the street photo removed, they did leave next door, I would love to have the Google Earth shots
    removed also.

    So basically you had Google remove a photo of a scene that many people see every day. Do you ask people to move on if they stand outside on the street?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    gctest50 wrote: »
    It can be tricky to insure a vacant house

    If a kid has an accident on the site of the vacant house - who pays ?

    The State ?

    The owner if it's uninsured. Though should the kid have been on the vacant premises in the first instance? Probably not.

    In the case of an accident, it is very possible (and not uncommon) depending on the circumstances for the owner of the property to perform a greater wrong for their actions/inactions in relation to the property and the nature of the accident than any wrongs by the kids and even potentially turn the owners wrongs into a criminal charge.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Write to Mr. Stephen Carolan, Information Systems Project Leader, Mayo County Council, Aras an Chontae, The Mall, Castlebar, County Mayo, email scarolan@mayococo.ie.

    He's the registered webmaster.


    Thx for that - I will for sure with my idea for an app / game

    Follamh

    ( bit like Pokeman but with vacant houses n leprechauns )

    Fire a bit of VR at it so it doesn't look sh!te

    Bonus : battle the leprechaun with history of the local area before you can catch it

    Get a "lucky lepchechan" & you win an iPhone or Android

    Any legal problems with that ?


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