Vacant Homes (www.vacanthomes.ie) and Privacy

Hupourradat · 14-08-2017 4:46pm #1

Hi,

Could I start a discussion or get advice on the right to have your property photographed and uploaded to a government database without your knowledge. As well as allegations made that its vacant? I spend a lot of time away so my house might meet the criteria (long grass, no movement - serious, these are on the website).

I don't like the idea of busy bodies taking pictures of my house at all. If Google have to remove them on my request why should anyone be allowed to do this?

Should there be an opt out option on the site and is this kind of G Man snooping even legal? Surely Big Government already has info on what houses pay full property tax and those pay as vacant?

I'd appreciate opinions.

seamus · 14-08-2017 5:04pm

In general taking a photograph of the front of a house is perfectly legal. "Alleging" that it may be empty is also perfectly legal, especially if it's just to a body whose purpose is to investigate whether it is.

The body's purpose is to contact owners of a property and assert whether it's vacant or not. If that happens to you, you can let them know that it is in fact occupied.

So there's not really any invasion of privacy there.

Contrary to popular belief, "Big Government" does not have one all-encompassing database of information, so obtaining Revenue records on paid property tax is not straightforward and may not be very reliable.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 14-08-2017 5:08pm

I would consider a stranger taking a photo of my home an invasion of privacy. I had the Google streetview of my home removed because it was a breach of my right to privacy and a security issue.
Even the notion of somebody assuming the right to consider a property of mine vacant gets my goat.

Manach · 14-08-2017 5:08pm

While there is likely get-out clauses that allow the state to do this within the various legislations, the concept of it implementing essentially a snooper's charter is touching on the Orwellian on the sliding scale of governmental over-reach.

freshpopcorn · 14-08-2017 5:11pm

Harper Fast Tag wrote: »

I had the Google streetview of my home removed because it was a breach of my right to privacy and a security issue.
Even the notion of somebody assuming the right to consider a property of mine vacant gets my goat.

Just out of interest when you did this were any of your neigbhours house excluded as well?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 14-08-2017 6:26pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Just out of interest when you did this were any of your neigbhours house excluded as well?

It's a detached, stand alone, rural property.

Think_then_talk · 14-08-2017 6:44pm

I also had the street photo removed, they did leave next door, I would love to have the Google Earth shots
removed also.

Hupourradat · 14-08-2017 8:05pm

Thanks for all the replies

seamus wrote: »

In general taking a photograph of the front of a house is perfectly legal. "Alleging" that it may be empty is also perfectly legal, especially if it's just to a body whose purpose is to investigate whether it is.

The body's purpose is to contact owners of a property and assert whether it's vacant or not. If that happens to you, you can let them know that it is in fact occupied.

So there's not really any invasion of privacy there.

Contrary to popular belief, "Big Government" does not have one all-encompassing database of information, so obtaining Revenue records on paid property tax is not straightforward and may not be very reliable.

I think it may be a grey area though, after all someone can object to you taking their photograph. I think the gov are exploiting the "Alright if you get away with it" mentality.

I think the person who reports a property should be named.

It would be funny and a bit Irish if it is not possible or legal for the gov to obtain property records from one department (Property Tax) to another (Housing) yet they can encourage snoopers to do it and protect them with anonymity.

I have deGoogled the house too!

It just seems like one more step towards the State watching everything you do.

Fred Swanson · 14-08-2017 8:38pm

This post has been deleted.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 14-08-2017 9:02pm

Absolutely disgraceful proposals from the Government. The vacant homes website is chilling. Who on earth is going to rat on a neighbouring homeowner, even if they don't like him, with a view to tenants moving in who might cause trouble??

This website poses a direct and clear security risk and interference to property owners.

I have my suspicions as to what's really going on here. The next step will be expansion of CPOs and forcing homeowners to take the Government's preferred choice of resident into their homes.

Hupourradat · 14-08-2017 10:00pm

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Absolutely disgraceful proposals from the Government. The vacant homes website is chilling. Who on earth is going to rat on a neighbouring homeowner, even if they don't like him, with a view to tenants moving in who might cause trouble?? This website poses a direct and clear security risk and interference to property owners.

I have my suspicions as to what's really going on here. The next step will be expansion of CPOs and forcing homeowners to take the Government's preferred choice of resident into their homes.

I recently watched a Youtube video where everyone who wasn't part of the elite were described as their cattle. Now it seems they are building a system to move us from field to field.

uck51js9zml2yt · 14-08-2017 10:24pm

It's not as anonymous as people think. I'm sure IP addresses are captured along with geolocations (even though that's optional), network details etc.

Del2005 · 14-08-2017 10:36pm

Hupourradat wrote: »

I think it may be a grey area though, after all someone can object to you taking their photograph.

You can object all you like but if it's a public place you've no right to privacy and can only complain about it's publication not taking.

Elian Shrilling Insect wrote: »

It's not as anonymous as people think. I'm sure IP addresses are captured along with geolocations (even though that's optional), network details etc.

No need for geo location analysis when the person posting will be giving the location of the building

Atlantic Dawn · 14-08-2017 10:40pm

I think their plan is to shift the blame on ordinary people for the housing crisis.

Fred Swanson · 14-08-2017 10:55pm

This post has been deleted.

uck51js9zml2yt · 14-08-2017 10:57pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I think they mean recording the geo location of the informant.

Indeed I do as providing the geoloc of the house is optional.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 14-08-2017 11:42pm

Had a look at the Vacant Homes website just there - no identifying information as to who is running it, responsible for it or where and how information submitted is transferred or handled.

The potential for criminality and damage to one's property is limitless.

Must take a look at a domain lookup site to see who is running this Stasi-esque sham.

twilight_singer · 14-08-2017 11:55pm

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Had a look at the Vacant Homes website just there - no identifying information as to who is running it, responsible for it or where and how information submitted is transferred or handled.

The potential for criminality and damage to one's property is limitless.

Must take a look at a domain lookup site to see who is running this Stasi-esque sham.

'ol mayo county council

Fred Swanson · 15-08-2017 12:05am

This post has been deleted.

Really Interested · 15-08-2017 1:43am

Hupourradat wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies

I think it may be a grey area though, after all someone can object to you taking their photograph. I think the gov are exploiting the "Alright if you get away with it" mentality.

I think the person who reports a property should be named.

It would be funny and a bit Irish if it is not possible or legal for the gov to obtain property records from one department (Property Tax) to another (Housing) yet they can encourage snoopers to do it and protect them with anonymity.

I have deGoogled the house too!

It just seems like one more step towards the State watching everything you do.

The High Court has made a decision on the privacy aspect.

http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/bce24a8184816f1580256ef30048ca50/9bd14182c49347be8025713300410c9c?OpenDocument

I do not believe it has been appealed or overturned

Really Interested · 15-08-2017 1:49am

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Had a look at the Vacant Homes website just there - no identifying information as to who is running it, responsible for it or where and how information submitted is transferred or handled.

The potential for criminality and damage to one's property is limitless.

Must take a look at a domain lookup site to see who is running this Stasi-esque sham.

It is registered by Mayo County Council.

Really Interested · 15-08-2017 1:50am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

What is the legal basis for the collection of such information?

Ask Mayo county council and the minister for local government

seamus · 15-08-2017 8:37am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

They're asking for it.

On what basis is the collection of this information illegal?

Harper Fast Tag wrote: »

I would consider a stranger taking a photo of my home an invasion of privacy.

What you consider to be invastion of privacy doesn't mean it is.

I had the Google streetview of my home removed because it was a breach of my right to privacy and a security issue.

You had it removed because Google allow you to do so in good faith. They are under no legal obligation to do so.

It would be funny and a bit Irish if it is not possible or legal for the gov to obtain property records from one department (Property Tax) to another (Housing) yet they can encourage snoopers to do it and protect them with anonymity.

I have no doubt that if the government had one big database on everyone that any government department could access with impunity, you'd be spitting feathers. Yet when they don't have such a database, you think it's ridiculous.

The collection of this information appears on the face of it to be perfectly legal.

Peregrinus · 15-08-2017 8:42am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Generally you don't need a "legal basis" to collect information. You need a legal basis to stop someone collecting information.

AlanG · 15-08-2017 10:35am

IMO this site is fine as it only gathers information and does not distribute it like Google. It is likely that it will fall foul of GDPR as it has a notes field that will most likely end up having peoples names entered. Site only has a 3 month cert so it looks like they figured it wont last long.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 15-08-2017 10:44am

Legal or otherwise, if I stood outside someone's house, a house I have no connection with, and took several photographs of it (as the site requests turncoats to do) I shouldn't be surprised if someone saw fit to call the Gardai.

seamus · 15-08-2017 10:48am

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Legal or otherwise, if I stood outside someone's house, a house I have no connection with, and took several photographs of it (as the site requests turncoats to do) I shouldn't be surprised if someone saw fit to call the Gardai.

Sure. And the Gardai would do nothing about it unless a law has been broken.

GM228 · 15-08-2017 11:01am

AlanG wrote: »

IMO this site is fine as it only gathers information and does not distribute it like Google. It is likely that it will fall foul of GDPR as it has a notes field that will most likely end up having peoples names entered. Site only has a 3 month cert so it looks like they figured it wont last long.

The site was developed with the assistance of the DPC.

No names are entered unless you want to set up an account.

The site needs a renewal in February 2018, not in 3 months.

minikin · 15-08-2017 11:06am

Hopefully someone will record Dáil Éireann as a vacant home of democracy... given that they're all off on their jollies for the foreseeable

nsa0bupkd3948x · 15-08-2017 11:11am

AlanG wrote: »

. Site only has a 3 month cert so it looks like they figured it wont last long.

They're using Lets Encrypt. 90 days is the longest certificate they offer, normally renews after 60/75 days.

gctest50 · 15-08-2017 11:21am

Hupourradat wrote: »

......

I have deGoogled the house too!

........

They are the ones that "stand out"

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